160 replies to this topic

[undercover brother]

we all know the threads we are talking about.
i got chest pain whilst running today - what should i do?
i saw a physio about a sore leg today - what do you think is causing it?

for those who dont want to read a long diatribe the executive summary is as follows...
if you have an acute or acute on chronic medical problem: seek medical attention.
and IMO this should be the only advice given by others in such circumstances until this has occured.

long diatribe... (and disclaimer)
i have been a doctor for 14 years and an emergency specialist for 5.
i have seen a lot of bad stuff happen.
its amazing how often this is due to communication error whether it be delay in treatment, inappropriate advice whether this be by a well meaning but unqualified relative or friend, a fellow health professional or on-line advice etc... etc...
i am sorry to say this but as a group australians are very very very poorly educated about our health.

as an example the first thread above (chest pain) concerns me greatly as there is huge potential for harm to be done in a variety of ways
1. people taking inappropriate advice given
2. people delaying medical treatment to 'try some things mentioned' first or being reassured and not seeking attention at all
3. (and the reverse) people being inappropriately concerned about minor problems and rushing up to emergency

i understand that the people starting these threads are often worried and/or in pain so i dont want to vilify them.
however its often the case that the information provided is extremely poor.
there is no identifying data, no relevant clinical information and often when they have sought attention no information regarding the outcome.
whilst not for a minute suggesting people can diagnose over the internet certain information can certainly be used to 'risk manage' or alternatively acts as a 'red flag'.
eg. a 12 year old with 3 minutes of chest pain is almost certainly less of a worry than a 55 year old with one hour of exertional pain who is a smoker, has high blood pressure and is a diabetic.

now of course whilst this information may be helpful it is by no means an avenue for diagnosis or management.
nothing and i repeat nothing can replace seeing a health professional in person.
talking to them face to face, discussing the current problem as well as relevant past history, being examined and having any relevant tests.

for these reasons many emergency departments blankly refuse to give any phone advice whatsoever.
so you may start to understand why i am somewhat bemused that non health professionals would offer such advice albeit wellmeaning and seemingly harmless.

now what threads am i talking about?
after all this is a running website and people injure themselves all the time.
i agree its hard to define.
to be honest most sports med/physio type problems are hardly life and/or limb threatening.
at worst bad advice will lead to more time on the sidelines.
we also have a great set of physios on cr who are often more than happy to try and help out as best they can with the information provided.

also we have a few threads about chronic conditions that obviously people get great support from.
some obvious examples of inappropriate threads would be ones in which delay to medical treatment could potentially be very harmful.
this would be very broad especially considering the information often provided (as mentioned above).
eg's would include chest pain, abdominal pain, headache, fever etc... etc... and yes vertigo

its really hard to delineate the role of the moderators in all of this.
indeed i have had a few discussions with a couple of the mods about this exact question over the years.
i know most of the mods and none of them i know are medically qualified and i wouldnt expect them to know a lot of the ins and outs.
the current guidelines dont prevent people giving inappropriate medical advice and even if it was decided to change them it would be very hard to even define likely police.

i hope people understand where i am coming from.
daily i see examples of poor communication causing morbidity and even mortality.
and unfortunately i see a huge potential for advice on CR to cause the same.
i am sure it already has.

just to reiterate once again: the executive summary is as follows...
if you have an acute or acute on chronic medical problem: seek medical attention.
and IMO this should be the only advice given by others in such circumstances until this has occured.

Edited by undercover brother, 04 August 2009 - 08:43 PM.

[walshy2]

good point UCB and well stated

btw, do you do web consults and if so do you bulk bill?

[Huff]

UCB

Take a deep breath, count to 10, and if pain persists.........

[Ben1]

Huff, on Aug 4 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

Take a deep breath, count to 10, and if pain persists.........

send yourself an email asking for advice.

[CoolRunning Admin]

Some good points UCB and well worth remembering.
I have "pinned" this topic so it will come vaguely near the top of the "About CoolRunning" threads.
Its hard to say what advice people should come here for and what they should go to a paid professional to for.
Some people here will give better advice than a paid professional. Some people here will give totally disastrous advice on every single topic under the sun, moon, and stars. Its hard to pick.

Extreme caution is always required.

Kevin

[undercover brother]

walshy2, on Aug 4 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

good point UCB and well stated
btw, do you do web consults and if so do you bulk bill?

is this an inappropriate time to mention that i injected cortisone into my own foot today?
and no i didnt bill myself.
when i have a complication as a result i will be sure to ask for advice here

[BennyMid]

undercover brother, on Aug 4 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

we all know the threads we are talking about.
i got chest pain whilst running today - what should i do?
i saw a physio about a sore leg today - what do you think is causing it?

for those who dont want to read a long diatribe the executive summary is as follows...
if you have an acute or acute on chronic medical problem: seek medical attention.
and IMO this should be the only advice given by others in such circumstances until this has occured.

I nominate this for the best post on CR that I have ever read on here !!!

Thank goodness someone said it.

Really a 15/16 yr old giving advice on vertigo ?

Gimee a break

As said above seek medical ( or your prefered medicine type person ) if and when you have a problem.

I hate doctors and drugs etc with a passion but if myself or my children have something that " concerns me " me health wise then its off the the docs

I guess its a little bit like owning a car

The tyre is flat you check to see if ther is a nail in there somewhere --- no nail then pump it up \\\\\ if there is a nail take it to a tyre doctor to get it fixed NOT ask a few thousand people what should I do

Congrats UCB and thanks

benny

[TechGirl]

True, seeking advice on line for serious clinical signs is not a good thing. BUT, so many GPs SUCK when it gets to explaining things to patients. It isn't too surprising that many seek advice from alternative sources. Now as a specialist in emergency medicine, UCB you likely show your patients some common decency and give them a decent explanation. My poor mother is just one example of leaving the patient in the dark. She went to the GP short of breath, was told her lungs were fine, but as she insisted she was having trouble breathing, the GP did an ECG and suggested she may have a heart irregularity. She goes to hospital and is finally correctly diagnosed with a pleural effusion (unilateral). Then she gets no explanation as to what could be causing it, is sent home after the fluid is drained and she is stable and is told to return for a revisit in 10 days (yes the fluid and blood samples were sent off for clinical pathology). As a vet, I am pretty dumbfounded by all of this!. And it isn't an isolated case.

As this thread suggests, it would be far more sensible to get appropriate medical advice, but UCB you have colleagues in your profession that are letting patients down.

Okay, off the soap box and sorry for the hijack ......

TechGirl

Edit

PS I went to a doctor on Friday because I had pain in my chest following a fall during a run 1 week previously. Now I didn't have much choice in regards to the doctor I saw, but hell he didn't even do a physical examination - no auscultation nothing! Then suggested that maybe I should have a series of acupuncture treatments ... sheesh!

Edited by TechGirl, 04 August 2009 - 09:21 PM.

[walshy2]

undercover brother, on Aug 4 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

is this an inappropriate time to mention that i injected cortisone into my own foot today?
and no i didnt bill myself.
when i have a complication as a result i will be sure to ask for advice here

Touche!!!!!

[Huff]

undercover brother, on Aug 4 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

is this an inappropriate time to mention that i injected cortisone into my own foot today?
and no i didnt bill myself.
when i have a complication as a result i will be sure to ask for advice here

I just hope your cortisone doesn't come in a similar bottles to your botox!

[Bellthorpe]

This could be very dangerous. Your immune system might now be irrevocably compromised. I suggest an intensive course of detoxification immediately. You should also fortify yourself with Echinacea, Astragalus and Goldenseal.

[sportsphysio]

Without getting too preachy, i think everyone raises good points.

I agree with UCB about offering unqualified medical advice. I have often seen good intentions lead to misdiagnosis, poor treatment and delayed recovery, albeit not to the same extent that one would see as an emergency doc.
I also take the point that it's hard for unqualified people to distinguish between simple problems and potentially disastrous ones.

I'd suggest the only way of approaching this fairly is to ask people to state the extent of your expertise when posting on medical items. That way the recipient is better informed as to the relative value of the info.

In the end, whoever started the topic needs to make a choice based on their health. If they wish to put all their faith in online forums.........well, i guess it may just be natural selection at work.

For my clinical work, i refuse to make online or over-the-phone diagnoses without first knowing their star sign, insurance status and a good lawyer.

[Trick]

UCB, since I know that you are a medical professional you may be able to help me with my little problem.....my husband has this stress fracture in his foot and has been told to keep off it for at least the next 6 weeks.  My question is how do I get him to still do all the housework just because he can't walk?

[Mister G]

UCB, I have this itch......

Edited by Mister G, 04 August 2009 - 10:01 PM.

[Bellthorpe]

Stress fracture? Just apply topical Comfrey, have it fixed in a jiffy.

[Colsy]

Would this also apply to the Depression thread?

[Leofisio]

UCB,

Everything you said is great and makes all sense...

I was wondering if CR could include a moderator with some sort of medical background... and maybe CR could develop specific guidelines for the injuries thread... I am happy to discuss this/help if needed.

Leofisio

[Old chook]

UCB, I think people are just doing what people normally do: if they have a health problem, they discuss it with their partner/children/hairdresser, just like they discuss the legal implications of their daughter's shoplifting or the funny stain on the plaster or the car coughing on the fuel enhancer. They discuss it with us. Some of us may be more or less qualified to answer. They may get good or absolutely disastrous advice, not necessarily correlating with our qualifications. It is up to them to ask, to assess, to take that advice or reject it.

I'm sure you've given people legal advice before. Cooking advice. Car parking advice. Driving advice. Financial advice. Fashion advice.

I'm sure you also know that some doctors know stuff-all about running injuries.

[Colin]

Its very good advice and long overdue, but ...

....CR should be just a 'sounding board' ...at least (most) people (should) know that the advice is given over an internet forum by anonymous people and need to 'self moderate' whether the advice is appropriate or applicable etc

....but when people pay good money for professional face to face consultation and still get crap advice...they automatically tend to believe it...and there is little we can do about that.

btw ...how do we know that a medic moderator would be any better or unbiased...do we need to see recommendations/success-failure rates etc? I mean in face to face that is the biggest factor...not the amount of degrees on the wall.

cheers

[Leofisio]

Colin, on Aug 4 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

btw ...how do we know that a medic moderator would be any better or unbiased...do we need to see recommendations/success-failure rates etc? I mean in face to face that is the biggest factor...not the amount of degrees on the wall.

cheers

Colin, what I meant by moderating is just to make sure that absurd/ridiculous advice in life threatening conditions would be removed...

Just my opinion... cheers

Leo

[runnur]

sportsphysio, on Aug 4 2009, 09:31 PM, said:

For my clinical work, i refuse to make online or over-the-phone diagnoses without first knowing their star sign, insurance status and a good lawyer.

Very good   

[undercover brother]

Colsy, on Aug 4 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

Would this also apply to the Depression thread?

hard to give an opinion on this without sounding like an ignoramus.
have to admit i dont read the thread much.
what i have read is people who are usually seeking help outside CR and on CR sharing ups and downs in a social networking and community support kind of way.
also lots of resourcing: links and books etc...
i think this is really good.
i cant see much of 'i am not sure but i think i have depression' and people suggesting you could try drug xyz.

Old chook, on Aug 4 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

UCB, I think people are just doing what people normally do: if they have a health problem, they discuss it with their partner/children/hairdresser, just like they discuss the legal implications of their daughter's shoplifting or the funny stain on the plaster or the car coughing on the fuel enhancer. They discuss it with us. Some of us may be more or less qualified to answer. They may get good or absolutely disastrous advice, not necessarily correlating with our qualifications. It is up to them to ask, to assess, to take that advice or reject it.
I'm sure you've given people legal advice before. Cooking advice. Car parking advice. Driving advice. Financial advice. Fashion advice.
I'm sure you also know that some doctors know stuff-all about running injuries.

really good points.
i think the difference is that you are talking to the hairdresser face to face or face to mirror anyway (well presumably) and you know who they are and if they are a tool or not.
if you dont think people follow random advice from seemingly random people have another look at the threads i am talking about.
and i would say a lot of doctors know stuff-all about running injuries.
and by the way when ERA hits 26 bucks buy!

Edited by undercover brother, 05 August 2009 - 06:15 AM.

[Didge]

undercover brother, on Aug 5 2009, 05:44 AM, said:

hard to give an opinion on this without sounding like an ignoramus.
have to admit i dont read the thread much.
what i have read is people who are usually seeking help outside CR and on CR sharing ups and downs in a social networking and community support kind of way.
also lots of resourcing: links and books etc...
i think this is really good.
i cant see much of 'i am not sure but i think i have depression' and people suggesting you could try drug xyz.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with that one UCB. Hence CR's who feel the need to use that thread shouldn't be knocked or shot down for doing so.


BTW - your opening post is excellent!

[maryclaire]

This is a great thread and a timely topic.  Personally, it wouldn't occur to me to ask for medical advice on a running forum.  That's what WebMD is for!   Seriously, the idea that someone would take advice from a person unkown on an unrelated website is downright crazy.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions....

Old chook, on Aug 4 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

It is up to them to ask, to assess, to take that advice or reject it.

I'm sure you've given people legal advice before. Cooking advice. Car parking advice. Driving advice. Financial advice. Fashion advice.

These are not the same as the possible consequences of following ignorant medical advice is much greater than cooking advice - unless the result is food poisoning!

[Bellthorpe]

Colin, on Aug 4 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

....but when people pay good money for professional face to face consultation and still get crap advice...they automatically tend to believe it...and there is little we can do about that.

The reverse is also true. People get sound advice from a medical professional, but they don't like it. So they describe their symptoms here, asking for advice that they will like.

[Colsy]

undercover brother, on Aug 5 2009, 06:44 AM, said:

hard to give an opinion on this without sounding like an ignoramus.
have to admit i dont read the thread much.
what i have read is people who are usually seeking help outside CR and on CR sharing ups and downs in a social networking and community support kind of way.
also lots of resourcing: links and books etc...
i think this is really good.
i cant see much of 'i am not sure but i think i have depression' and people suggesting you could try drug xyz.

Quite true, I havent seen any medication recommendations.

I dont usually ask for medical advice but I do like to hear from people with a similar experience to find out what worked for them. After all this whole forum is built on advice.

[Marvo]

Good thread UCB!

I admit I have replied to a couple of postings about injuries (ITBS and plantar fasciitis) based on my personal experiences.  However, on each occasion I said "it sounds like xyz but get your phyio to give you a referral to a sports physician" because the conditions were chronic and no amount of home spun remedies will fix the problems.

[Brick]

Old chook, on Aug 4 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

I'm sure you've given people ... Fashion advice.

Old chook I guess you have never met UCB saying he would give out Fashion advice.


As to Medical Advice.
I have had a medical problem since February 2009 started seeing doctors April some time.
I have seen nearly every specialist in Sydney and still no better and they have no idea what it could be.
I have also been passed on some ideas from coolrunners and then asked the doctors about the ideas and they have checked the ideas out but no fix yet.
The doctors have all been runners or ex-runners so I know they understand why I still need to run but they have never said that is stupid or similar.

Basically what I am saying is do as UCB say's and get medical advice but you can still canvass for ideas on coolrunning just take them on face value (with a grain of salt)



BTW: Great post UCB, see you in a few weeks at GH100.

[blair]

Talk about false advertising! I opened this thread thinking that based on the sub-title everyone would be listing reasons why UCB shits them to tears and eager to chip in with my 2c.

[swaggerer]

I more or less said the same thing as UCB in relation to the depresson thread and was shot down for doing so..  I suggested that sharing suicidal thoughts on a forum was not the best way of dealing with the problem.  There was a few people on the depresson thread who started sharing fantasies about suicide.  I suggested these people needed  to seek professional help and that no one on this forum was qualified to assist.   I backed this up with information from a source that suggested that people thinking these thoughts need to speak to trained people immediately.  Talking to people on a forum about mental illness is a good thing in that it brings out in the open but when that talking escalates to sharing thoughts of suicide then it, I think, goes beyond the ability of the forum to assist in any long-term meaningful way.    

I think  the depresson thread is comparable in certain ways to threads in relation to physical complaints.  For instance:  dealing with a person having suicidal thoughts is on the same level as as a 55 year old having chest pains.  Must seek professional advice immediately. Knowing how to respond to a persons conditon and analysing the symptons is what medical practitioners are trained to do.  Health professionals dealing with mental illness are also trained to respond and deal with the persons particular problem.

Edited by swaggerer, 05 August 2009 - 02:18 PM.

[FatboyCsaba]

undercover brother, on Aug 4 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

we all know the threads we are talking about.
i got chest pain whilst running today - what should i do?
i saw a physio about a sore leg today - what do you think is causing it?

for those who dont want to read a long diatribe the executive summary is as follows...
if you have an acute or acute on chronic medical problem: seek medical attention.
and IMO this should be the only advice given by others in such circumstances until this has occured.

You make sense brother. Thanks for your insight! Just a thought though: prevention is better than a ton of cure!

[Colin]

To be honest...what 55 yo with genuine chest pains would take the effort to log on here and ask rather than go to his GP, or tell someone close to him?

On the other hand, there are symptoms- such as Brick described- that professional medics give you very little solution/advice/reasons for...so it doesn't hurt to ask if others had similar.

In my radiculopathy issue, I have had umpteen different opinions (so either only one or none can be right) and have learnt much more than them by researching through internet.
Similarly we have found out much more via the internet about schwannomas that a relative has than any of the GP's or even some of the highly esteemed specialists have told them....plus each specialist wants to follow a completely different procedure.

So what faith does that give people?

As I have said before, doctors know everything there is to know on the stuff you need least help on...i.e. the common illnesses. If they had all the answers to the rare stuff and/or all gave same advice and/or didn't make any mistakes then people would not be asking others.

Leofisio, on Aug 4 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Colin, what I meant by moderating is just to make sure that absurd/ridiculous advice in life threatening conditions would be removed...

Agreed....and we should also have a scientific moderator , not to delete posts, but just to clarify what is anecdote and what is rigorous science.

cheers

[FakePlasticTrees]

Trick, on Aug 4 2009, 09:42 PM, said:

UCB, since I know that you are a medical professional you may be able to help me with my little problem.....my husband has this stress fracture in his foot and has been told to keep off it for at least the next 6 weeks.  My question is how do I get him to still do all the housework just because he can't walk?

He seems to be still capable of riding a bike. So put him on one of the kids toys and get him to help that way.

Quote

Quote

....but when people pay good money for professional face to face consultation and still get crap advice...they automatically tend to believe it...and there is little we can do about that.

The reverse is also true. People get sound advice from a medical professional, but they don't like it. So they describe their symptoms here, asking for advice that they will like.

The reverse of the reverse is also true in that I visited a few qualified SPORTS doctors/physicians (physio as well) and all of them trained experts missed the fact that I had a stress fracture. It was only through advice on this forum that I insisted they give me referral for a bone scan to pick up the fact that my tibia was almost split in half. I would hate this thread, though well intentioned, to kill off discussion of injuries or things medical. I think it's great to be able to have some information when going to see a professional. I know doctors hate that but face it, if I have bad experiences with a few plumbers then I'm going to seek out more knowledge about plumbing before getting another one to look at my problem.

[littleblackpug]

Bellthorpe, on Aug 4 2009, 09:22 PM, said:

This could be very dangerous. Your immune system might now be irrevocably compromised. I suggest an intensive course of detoxification immediately. You should also fortify yourself with Echinacea, Astragalus and Goldenseal.

Don't forget to see your chiropractor also

[undercover brother]

Marvo, on Aug 5 2009, 09:20 AM, said:

I admit I have replied to a couple of postings about injuries (ITBS and plantar fasciitis) based on my personal experiences.  However, on each occasion I said "it sounds like xyz but get your phyio to give you a referral to a sports physician" because the conditions were chronic and no amount of home spun remedies will fix the problems.

FakePlasticTrees, on Aug 5 2009, 10:32 AM, said:

The reverse of the reverse is also true in that I visited a few qualified SPORTS doctors/physicians (physio as well) and all of them trained experts missed the fact that I had a stress fracture. It was only through advice on this forum that I insisted they give me referral for a bone scan to pick up the fact that my tibia was almost split in half.

just to clarify once again i do not have a problem with sports medicine topics/threads on CR.
other than the fact that often the initial post contains very little relevant information.
and of course the occasional 'comfrey' or 'itbfs doesnt exist' kind of comment
often these are chronic conditions or even if acute bad advice is unlikely to do anything more than delay recovery.
it is acute or acute on chronic general medical problems that i have an issue with.
like you marvo i often dabble in these injury threads and hopefully give some hints to people that they can discuss with whoever is treating them.
if they try a muscle mate instead of a tennis ball for a few days beforehand they are unlikely to die as a result.

i too have had a delayed diagnosis of a stressie FPT but nowhere near as long as your saga from memory.
this is a separate issue from providing bad advice or false reassurance for an acute general medical issue.
and i would like to thing that the multiple physios/osteos/sonographers etc... who cohabit this board do a great job in teasing out the relevant info and provide some great direction for posters.
even if that happens to be as simple as it could be this or that have a chat to the sports physio about it.
or xrays are hopeless for diagnosing stressies...

Brick, on Aug 5 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

Old chook I guess you have never met UCB saying he would give out Fashion advice.

you are really wanting me to post 'that' photo arent you
sorry to her you have been unwell.

Edited by undercover brother, 05 August 2009 - 11:07 AM.

[Paul Every]

TechGirl, on Aug 4 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

........ so many GPs SUCK when it gets to explaining things to patients........ My poor mother is just one example of leaving the patient in the dark. ....... She goes to hospital and is finally correctly diagnosed with a pleural effusion (unilateral). Then she gets no explanation as to what could be causing it.........As a vet, I am pretty dumbfounded by all of this!.

Techgirl, it is reassuring to know you are so professional and conscientious with your patients.

Alas, I bet those goldfish piss you off. You carefully explain to them all about their fin rot, then 15 seconds after they've left the surgery they've forgotten everything you told them.  

[Paul Every]

Mister G, on Aug 4 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

UCB, I have this itch......

Hmmm..... sounds like a classic case of Kosciuszko Deprivation Syndrome to me. I would suggest take a 240km run with numerous glasses of water, then have a good lie down.

[FakePlasticTrees]

Paul Every, on Aug 5 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

Hmmm..... sounds like a classic case of Kosciuszko Deprivation Syndrome to me. I would suggest take a 240km run with numerous glasses of water, then have a good lie down.

It's a good thing that you are qualified to give such advice  

[Huff]

Mister G, on Aug 4 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

UCB, I have this itch......

Itch

[tim]

if I want to come on to this board and ask about my heart and someone tells me to take some herb or detox then it is my choice.  

Why does all information here on CR have to go through the league of extraordinary gentlemen.

most of you are just bored grumpy old men looking for something to mock anyway and such posts give you something to do.

comfrey!

[Huff]

tim, on Aug 5 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

if I want to come on to this board and ask about my heart and someone tells me to take some herb or detox then it is my choice.  

Why does all information on here on CR have to go through the league of extraordinary gentlemen.

most of you are just bored grumpy old men looking for something to mock anyway and such posts give you something to do.

comfrey!

Oh lighten up Tim!     Sorry to hear about your heart.  Have you tried chai tea?

[BostonCalling]

I think UCB is on the right track here.  Totally agree.

My questions is for UCB.  If the Health industry is so under-resourced and under-staffed, how come you have time to post this stuff?

[Huff]

BostonCalling, on Aug 5 2009, 12:32 PM, said:

I think UCB is on the right track here.  Totally agree.

My questions is for UCB.  If the Health industry is so under-resourced and under-staffed, how come you have time to post this stuff?

For business

[HillsAths1]

Huff, on Aug 4 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

For business

I understand now this is a marketing exercise for UCB!!!

However I agree that as we all think that we are invincible(thats why we run, live longer, be active etc), at some point there are times when we have to bow to others with greater knowledge on medical issues.

I dont think that UCB was too concerned that people were discussing Nipple rash and Black toe nails(although he may have a fetish about those conditions). There are some issues where an ounce of prevention(as mentioned earlier) is very worthwhile.

Sometimes it is better to do some shopping around for medical advice on CR, so you can be directed to a medical practitioner who may be geographically close and have an understanding of your particular issues.(Not all doctors are the same).

I have read some of the advice on CR about training etc, and believe that some of the methods suggested should also come with a disclaimer.

Just as an aside, where people are asking for medical advice should there be some sort of warning lights that say "the messages printed here are not the beliefs of the CR management but are posts by the personal opinions of well known medicos HillsAths(no chance a medico but used to have a first aid certificate), Brick(has thrown up more than any other known runner, and has turned it into an endurance event),UCB etc?

[Colin]

HillsAths1, on Aug 5 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

Sometimes it is better to do some shopping around for medical advice on CR, so you can be directed to a medical practitioner who may be geographically close and have an understanding of your particular issues.(Not all doctors are the same).

When Andrew Lloyd was asked a question relating to being able to run with a knee replacement, he said (paraphrasing) that if you want to be a 'thoroughbred' you have to go to doctors who work are 'thoroughbreds'

...it is useful if other CR's are able to tell us who the thoroughbreds and who the donkeys are.

[undercover brother]

HillsAths1, on Aug 5 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

I understand now this is a marketing exercise for UCB!!!

hahahhaa you may well be right.
i should explain that i work privately and hereby estimate that with the one thread every 3 months that really pisses me off and i hope to convince people to just 'go and see someone' and the fact i dont work a hell of a lot and that most wont be from brissie i may see 1 new patient every 10 years because of my little plug.
so to answer your question BC the public system is underresourced because insufficient clinical staff want to work in it (including me) and it is inefficient.
and for any more detail go to here or one of the other dozen or so similar state based reports.
and tim after your comment i think in future you can just be a part of sports physio's 'CR natural selection experiement'

Edited by undercover brother, 05 August 2009 - 01:39 PM.

[Mouse]

undercover brother, on Aug 4 2009, 05:13 AM, said:

is this an inappropriate time to mention that i injected cortisone into my own foot today?

UCB - this reminded me of a family story my dad told me...  

I have an Uncle who once stitched up his own eye after a fight - in the bathroom mirror - while drunk.  Only problem is - he isn't a doctor, he's a vet  

[walker1st]

medical advice is an advice given by person who studied ilnessess, about how the move the symptoms around, how to mask them or supressed them.

health advice is an advice given by a persom who studied health and who understand,
that healt DOES NOT EQUAL the lack of accute symptoms of some illness.

Doctors do not study health and do not have degrees in health.

I have not met a healthy doctor yet, and if they do exist at all they are statistically insignificant.

This thread seems to very timely with propaganda offensive to people submit themselves into "health" department plans, like voluntary/compulsory pork vaccination and similar.

It is heading into the final showdown in this society on many fronts.

Society is completely split of course, there is no middle ground available.

[Bellthorpe]

tim, on Aug 5 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

most of you are just bored grumpy old men ...

I'm not bored.