45 replies to this topic

[blatant]

So everyone knows barefoot running is the next big thing.  I decided to try it after someone recommended it'd solve my issues (ITB, TFL pain).
After running for a few days barefoot (using the forefoot stride like everyone says), not only did my previous issues not resolve, and I know I can't expect them to go overnight, but I also developed severe pain in my ankle (I think in the anterior tibial tendon or that area - inside ankle, to the front of the knob of bone.)

If barefoot is supposed to help prevent injury, what happened? I did run slow/short distances so as to ease into it.

BTW, this isn't a flame/troll thread. I'm just curious because barefoot certainly didn't live up to its hype for me

[tdm]

Well blatant, I applaud your fearless attitude, but . . .  I think Barefoot Ted put it perfectly when he said "Think orchard growing, not fast food."
I don't know how much you've read about barefoot running, but here's a link to some tips:
http://groups.google...s-beginner-tips
Relax and ease into it gradually, I reckon. It's not a quick fix for anything.

[GrantWholey]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

So everyone knows barefoot running is the next big thing.  I decided to try it after someone recommended it'd solve my issues (ITB, TFL pain).
After running for a few days barefoot (using the forefoot stride like everyone says), not only did my previous issues not resolve, and I know I can't expect them to go overnight, but I also developed severe pain in my ankle (I think in the anterior tibial tendon or that area - inside ankle, to the front of the knob of bone.)

If barefoot is supposed to help prevent injury, what happened? I did run slow/short distances so as to ease into it.

BTW, this isn't a flame/troll thread. I'm just curious because barefoot certainly didn't live up to its hype for me

Hard to know what happened, could be a litle too much too soon. When you start bare footing or with Vibram FF you have to take it steady as your using muscles etc that havent seen much action. I try to get in a barefoot 5klm run once a week on grass, I think it has helped my running technique. I am a lot more aware of heel striking now and it only happens when I get fatigued on a long run.
May be try again with a few days break between barefoot runs.

cheers

[undercover brother]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

After running for a few days barefoot ...

what results were you expecting 'in a few days'?

[blatant]

Either people can't read or I wasn't clear enough where I said I eased into it with short, slow runs.  After 2 barefoot runs I certainly DON'T expect an injury to my ankle.  While I understand the ITB will take time, I don't see how a small run should cause ankle pain.

[walker1st]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Either people can't read or I wasn't clear enough where I said I eased into it with short, slow runs.  After 2 barefoot runs I certainly DON'T expect an injury to my ankle.  While I understand the ITB will take time, I don't see how a small run should cause ankle pain.

just another weak link of your technique and of your body was exposed, shoes do hide lots of issues. If you do not have much time to start from scratch and learn correct running and give body time to heal and to become strong in every little bit...

I suggest you come to miracle website

[Katz]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Either people can't read or I wasn't clear enough where I said I eased into it with short, slow runs.  After 2 barefoot runs I certainly DON'T expect an injury to my ankle.  While I understand the ITB will take time, I don't see how a small run should cause ankle pain.

Goodness, certainly a strong response there....

I also suggest you do some reading regarding barefoot running. It's not just about easing into the running very, very slowly, it's about easing into walking barefoot more often, about doing specific exercises to help strengthen the muscles that will be used running, and doing these things for weeks before you ever consider a run barefoot, regardless of how short that run light be.

It took me 6 months of conditioning my feet, ankles, calves, knees, hips, back etc before I could run barefoot without experiencing some kind of niggle afterwards.

Do some reading, take it very, very slow, and relax a bit mate.

Edited by Solace, 18 February 2011 - 10:20 AM.

[tdm]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Either people can't read or I wasn't clear enough where I said I eased into it with short, slow runs.  After 2 barefoot runs I certainly DON'T expect an injury to my ankle.  While I understand the ITB will take time, I don't see how a small run should cause ankle pain.

You're a barefoot beginner, but you haven't started like a barefoot beginner. You think you have, but you haven't. A few days of short, slow runs is not easing into it. Your body has told you this. You have expectations about what should or shouldn't happen - abandon those expectations. Forget about a timeframe or a certain number of runs to become a barefoot runner. Read the tips I linked to above, if you haven't already. Relax and enjoy the journey!

[blatant]

Solace, on 18 February 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

Goodness, certainly a strong response there....

I also suggest you do some reading regarding barefoot running. It's not just about easing into the running very, very slowly, it's about easing into walking barefoot more often, about doing specific exercises to help strengthen the muscles that will be used running, and doing these things for weeks before you ever consider a run barefoot, regardless of how short that run light be.

It took me 6 months of conditioning my feet, ankles, calves, knees, hips, back etc before I could run barefoot without experiencing some kind of niggle afterwards.

Do some reading, take it very, very slow, and relax a bit mate.

could you then recommend some exercises or point me to a decent online resource? I've done some reading into it but so far all I've come across is "ease into it".  In fact one resource recommended starting out with slow short runs.

edit: it's more than a niggle. my ITB is a niggle. The ankle is a sharp pain which is so bad I can barely walk (I can't do a calf stretch on it. Its still sore after weeks)

Edited by blatant, 18 February 2011 - 10:34 AM.

[Katz]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

could you then recommend some exercises or point me to a decent online resource? I've done some reading into it but so far all I've come across is "ease into it".  In fact one resource recommended starting out with slow short runs.

There's a book I read called Barefoot Running by.....Actually I just googled it to find the authors name and found his site here. I haven't looked at the site, but there might be some good information there in addition to his book.

The book though is a great read in my opinion and I have found the advice invaluable.

I too was plagued by injury including ITB issues and after a disc prolapse and being told I probably wouldn't run again, I am now, about 18 months later, not only back running again without injury, but am about to run 6 Foot for the first time.

[walker1st]

to address the ankle:
deep water running, yoga, swimm legkick drills including fins

later skipping rope and african dancing - jumping of the toes using movement in ankles but not knees - so called pogo jumps in fitness dictionary


ankle could not only be week but could also be inflexible

sit on the heals with toes pointing backwards - so called shins stretch.

[Arn]

Hi Blatant,

I'm not a barefoot runner but I did find the appeal of changing my running style too much to resist. I've kept my shoes on but moved to a forefoot/midfoot strike over the last 18months and have found a few things.

Firstly I pronate horribly and normally wear orthotics to reduce that pronation. Even with the change in style I find that running for too long (more than a couple of times per week) without my orthotics tends to create a lot of stress around my feet and lower legs. My conclusion from this is that some of us can still benefit from some mechanical assistance. I'm sure the true barefooters would have a bit to say about this

However my capacity for greater speed has increased considerably. It just feels so much nicer when I find that groove. During my speed work I'm zooming along at what used to be my top speed but I now feel that with increased fitness I'll be able to continue to increase the pace. Note that it has taken almost 18 months of slow running to get to this point and thats just changing running style let alone going barefoot!

[jpol3692]

barefooting takes ages to get right - I've been doing it for almost 18 months and I'm still not performing at the level I expect of myself. However, I'm injured much less often than I was with shoes, and when I am it's more 'that's annoying' rather than 'that's insanely painful'.

Without seeing your technique first hand, I'd suggest that you try getting someone to film you running - there's often a big difference between how you think you're landing and what's going on.

and as an addendum: if you hate it this passionately after two goes, why keep going? Just run with shoes - barefooting has done a lot of people a lot of good, but just because you had a bad experience after you just started out doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[blatant]

jpol3692, on 18 February 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

barefooting takes ages to get right - I've been doing it for almost 18 months and I'm still not performing at the level I expect of myself. However, I'm injured much less often than I was with shoes, and when I am it's more 'that's annoying' rather than 'that's insanely painful'.

Without seeing your technique first hand, I'd suggest that you try getting someone to film you running - there's often a big difference between how you think you're landing and what's going on.

and as an addendum: if you hate it this passionately after two goes, why keep going? Just run with shoes - barefooting has done a lot of people a lot of good, but just because you had a bad experience after you just started out doesn't mean it doesn't work.

It's not that i hated it. it just caused pain.  I haven't tried since, but people seem to think it's an holy grail or a silver bullet of sorts, and the science/logic behind it does make sense.  I started (and am considering trying it again) to get rid of ITB issues.  The ITB has been a niggle for about 6-8 months, the ankle was definately an "i did something wrong" snap

[flyingemu]

Solace, on 18 February 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's not just about easing into the running very, very slowly, it's about easing into walking barefoot more often, about doing specific exercises to help strengthen the muscles that will be used running, and doing these things for weeks before you ever consider a run barefoot, regardless of how short that run light be.

It took me 6 months of conditioning my feet, ankles, calves, knees, hips, back etc before I could run barefoot without experiencing some kind of niggle afterwards.

Good points Solace. I did the same, I walked in VFF's for 6 months before doing any running. Then, only 2km. Then ONE 5km run per month. I've now built it up a lot more (last week 50km in VFF's) but even with my slow and steady build up, I ran 21km on Monday and still pulled up with sore calf muscles and will have to back off between now and 6ft.

[undercover brother]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Either people can't read or I wasn't clear enough where I said I eased into it with short, slow runs.  

ouch.
could i suggest if you are new at something that asking for advice from people then abusing them isn't a great idea.
part of learning is not only asking questions but also listening to the responses.
enjoy and good luck.

Edited by undercover brother, 18 February 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[maryclaire]

I strongly recommend you read this thread from the beginning.  You'll need to put your feet up and probably a good idea to have a coffee/tea while you do, as it is a long thread.  But it has been going long enough to have built up a really good history with various people giving their accounts and thought of BF and minimalist running.  Some are converts; others have tried it and moved away frolm it.  Most runners have come to BF running through frustration with ongoing injuries which prevent them from running - or from enjoying it.  

In my case, I started BF running on grass for 400m at the end of a run; at the time I was rehabbing an injury so my mileage was low.

At the same time I started going BF during the day as much as possible.

As I returned to regular training, I would continue to add 400m laps BF on grass, bulding to 4 laps.  At this point, I purchased VFFs and began to run off the grass.  I started with 1km abd gradually built up.  At first I felt the ground was too hard and would seek out grass as much as possible.  I quickly got used to concrete/ashphalt and am now up to 9km continuous running in my VFFs.

I am using the old 10% rule that applies to running in general.  I will increase my weekly BF running by no more than 10%, and allow a drop-back week every now and then.  My biggest weekly BF volume to date is 20km (last week) and hence this week will only run 10km BF to allow for recovery.

I do find it stressful on the feet.  However it is a good stress that is building strength.  Hence the need for recovery.

Assuming you can run in shoes at the moment with only the old ITB "niggle", I would return to that for now.  When the ankle is without pain, try the BF adventure again.  It may or may not be right FOR YOU; but you should give it a fair chance before deciding it's not right for you.

One suggestion I recall reading that I liked (as I didn't want to revert to zero mileage while building BF running) was to complete your normal run, and then run around the block from home BF; over time, increase the laps of the block.  If you listen carefully to your body, you'll know when to increase and when to back off.

Good luck.

[jpol3692]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

It's not that i hated it. it just caused pain.  I haven't tried since, but people seem to think it's an holy grail or a silver bullet of sorts, and the science/logic behind it does make sense.  I started (and am considering trying it again) to get rid of ITB issues.  The ITB has been a niggle for about 6-8 months, the ankle was definately an "i did something wrong" snap

A fair point that (too many) people view barefooting as a silver bullet - I think they just get a bit overexcited that they are doing something that a lot of people tell them is bad/impossible, ie running without shoes. It's a sad herd mentality that people aren't even willing to ignore the advertising advice for just one go and try it - even if you hate it, you'll know what it's like, rather than just having your opinion dictated to you by Nike etc.

Realistically, all that barefoot does is exposes your flaws so that you can fix them. Shoes are a developed means of compensating for technique issues without addressing the root cause - to me it's fine to use shoes when you have excellent technique, but until you learn to run properly it's just covering up the cracks (sorry, couldn't help it).

[blatant]

undercover brother, on 18 February 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

ouch.
could i suggest if you are new at something that asking for advice from people then abusing them isn't a great idea.
part of learning is not only asking questions but also listening to the responses.
enjoy and good luck.

First of all I didn't really abuse anyone.
Second if you are going to respond in a manner that merely paraphrases what I wrote in the opening post (easing into it), then how can I learn?
I don't mean the above to sound rude but I think you've taken what I wrote slightly out of context.

Perhaps I'll try a few hundred meters as opposed to a few kms.
would minimalist shoes still need the same low mileage to start, or wearing something like nike frees will that allow for more starting out distance?

[Katz]

I was just thinking, in relation to your ITB issues, in addition to trying barefooting as a potential problem solver, are you also seeing a physio or someone about it and if so, are you doing the stretching which would have been recommended and are you torturing yourself with a foam roller as you also would have bene recommended to do?

[blatant]

Solace, on 18 February 2011 - 02:47 PM, said:

I was just thinking, in relation to your ITB issues, in addition to trying barefooting as a potential problem solver, are you also seeing a physio or someone about it and if so, are you doing the stretching which would have been recommended and are you torturing yourself with a foam roller as you also would have bene recommended to do?

Yes. All of the above. Physio is a marathoner who had ITB so he understands more than most of them who tell you to rest (like any runner wants to stop!)
I stretch it 2-3 times a day, in addition to the roller torture and I go for remedial massage once a week, and constant physio reviews/exercise/strenght programs.
All this isnt cheap hence trying a free solution
Edit: I've seen a podiatrist in the past also.

Edited by blatant, 18 February 2011 - 02:55 PM.

[Tony123]

I dont think barefoot running will solve your injuries.  Niggles of some sort seem to be a part of running.  Whenever you are pushing your body to the limit you are more than likely to get some sort of niggle or injury.  Running barefoot wont magically make you indestructible.

Good luck with your injuries. Keep plodding away, over time the body gets stronger and adapts and the injuries dont seem to happen as often.

PS.  I always runs with shoes and have never tried barefoot running.

[johnnyboyrun]

Tony123, on 18 February 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

I dont think barefoot running will solve your injuries.  Niggles of some sort seem to be a part of running.  Whenever you are pushing your body to the limit you are more than likely to get some sort of niggle or injury.  Running barefoot wont magically make you indestructible.

Good luck with your injuries. Keep plodding away, over time the body gets stronger and adapts and the injuries dont seem to happen as often.

PS.  I always runs with shoes and have never tried barefoot running.

Certainly an issue that will always polarise people

Just enjoy your running as much as you can, barefoot or not!

[ninjette]

tdm, on 18 February 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Relax and ease into it gradually, I reckon. It's not a quick fix for anything.

I had read nothing about barefooting when I bought my first pair of minimalist shoes (VFF KSOs) and had no idea you were supposed to 'ease into' them. The day I'd decided to buy them, I ran to the shop in my running shoes, tried on the VFFs, kept them on while I paid for them, then ran home in them (3km), carrying my old shoes in my hand. Over the next two weeks I ran 100km in the KSOs. After which, I could barely walk, let alone run, my feet were so sore! I went back to shoes for a while after that, since I had a few races coming up and didn't have the time to prepare my feet for a VFF marathon. After my first (shod) marathon, however, it was time to get serious about minimalist running, and I've been in VFFs ever since. Currently I've racked up a total of 1200km in them, including 3 halves.

I didn't buy them to counteract or solve any problem. I bought them because they were part of the way I wanted to run. And yes, they highlighted all sorts of imbalances in my gait that had been hidden by shoes, but I considered that a good thing, not a bad thing.

[KevM]

Some great posts, agree with so much.

Another positive story:
I was a terrible heel striker, long stride and foot landing out in front, then after reading 'Born to Run' (like so many) I gave barefoot a go.
Started with 100metres twice a week on grass, added 50 metres each week for the first 8 weeks and ran carefully.
I started to build quicker after legs felt safe.
I was surprised at how different my gait and foot strike were. Shorter, neater and by self preservation - lighter.
Now I run in the Vibram FF and/or barefoot on even grass about 30 out of my 100k a week.
The build has taken about 6 to 8 months and feels about right for now; I don't have an urge to do all k's in the VFF.
Everyone is different but for me it helped me adjust the way I run and believe it's strengthening my legs.
When in my usual runners I keep to the same way that I run barefoot so I run differently to a year ago - only time I stray is in an event where I take advantage of the thick souls of runners, especially on trails where the VFF would have me too cautious for 'racing'.

I have 2 mates who run a heap, both have tried barefoot and the Vibrams, both have had benefits, slowly, neither of them have needed to adjust their style as much as me though because they already had efficient, safe gaits.

My calves and achilles which have always been a big problem are the best they've been.

As all posts above, the key is building very slowy and carefully. And on top of all - enjoy the feeling of barefoot on a nice grass field or oval - magic stuff.

[Injured2010]

I am by no means an experienced runner but I run barefoot and got into based on advice from runners on cool running australia.  As you can see from my username I have suffered various injuries throughout 2010, and despite my changes I am still having problems in 2011.

However, my form is improving and much better barefoot than in shoes but I am having to do everything gradually to get to be where I want to be.  I am not aiming to run completely barefoot all the time but to use it to strengthen and identify weaknesses in my running.

My barefoot running form is decent but not perfect and I think this is sometimes what people don't realise.  It takes time to improve your form and there will be set backs.  Just hopefully not too many.

When I first ran barefoot it felt great but after the run I soon realised all didn't go well.  My first barefoot run

However, I have used it wisely and introduced it gradually since but had to use it today for a longer time than I had anticipated due to a hamstring injury.  I am finding that barefoot running along with other changes is allowing me to develop and run with minor injuries that previously would have prevented me from running. My barefoot run today

I have been to see a Podiatrist, Osteopath, Physio etc. and currently working closely with a Physio to improve my core which is helping.  Previous work with an Osteopath diagnosed I had a twisted spine in two places and this is still not 100%.  The Podiatrist identified that due to bad posture is longer than the other.  Due to changes I think this is now changes but results in injuries to my right leg rather than the left.  I will need to visit the Osteopath soon to check on my progress.

The point about the last paragraph is that the OP might have other things that needs looking at and managing before either trying barefoot and there is a good chance they need to change their form but also receive some medical advice.

Edited by Injured2010, 21 February 2011 - 08:00 AM.

[Brick]

blatant, on 18 February 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

Perhaps I'll try a few hundred meters as opposed to a few kms.
would minimalist shoes still need the same low mileage to start, or wearing something like nike frees will that allow for more starting out distance?

Yes You still need to start with very low kms with minimalist shoes.
This might be a good intermediate step.

It is exactly what I have been doing.

I started with Nike free's only 1-2km runs once a week.
Then built up to 6km runs twice a week with nike free's.

Then added in 800-1400m after track sessions bear foot on grass.
If I got the feeling of tightness I would stop.

These days I am still only doing about 1.6km bear foot but up to Half Marathons with the nike free's.
I have recently got some minimalist trail shoes New Balance 101s and the longest trail run I have done using them 6' Track.

It is all perception as to what is low millage.
My normal weekly millage is 100+km so 1.4km bear foot is very little after starting the process 12 months ago.
But it seems to helping so I will stick at it.

[Freesoul]

A few links:
Runners World Barefooters
Running barefoot
Minimalist runner
Why running shoes don't work

[RunTishRun]

I'm a barefoot style n00b too.

I got the ChiRunning DVD and 10k manual, but have begun walking in flat shoes or 'camping' shoes with toe-socks - no orthodics, no padded sports innersoles, just thinking 'point and down, point and down' to reteach myself how to walk. The first few days hurt my calves and feet, after that my planta facitis seems to be going away for the first time in years and my feet and legs only hurt when I put on my expensive ASICs.

Picking up some VFF Bikilas (Diabetes Type 1, so no bare feet) tonight. My 3-week cold is over, and I feel comfortable with the movement, so I'm ready for a little run (one block length at a time to start).

Slowly, slowly keeps me from the doctors - is my thought!

[Arnoruns]

I have been barefooting it for about 3 months now and its honestly still a work in progress. the biggest strides(excuse the pun) in development i seem to be making when i go completely barefoot for my 2km extremely light jog on pavement. i run over pavement, concrete sidewalk and a short bit with lots of pebbles and stones. i keep it light as possible due to the surfaces i run on.
my first run was followed by a week off, sore calves, forefoot and stiff ankle. week 2 i went for 2 runs and week 3 i went thrice. i can now run barefoot over 10km. i have slight stiffness in calves now but still get a bit of soreness in my right forefoot. but its getting better I CAN LITERALLY feel my feet ankles and calves getting stronger. when im pushing off from the balls of my feet its effortless and springy, it has come a long way in 3 months but still nowhere near perfect.
i started doing this barefoot running thing cos i was actually hitting walls at 3km marks, my shins would stop me in my tracks from pain! never use to have this issue, and at that stage it doesn't matter what i did i couldn't get rid of it! now i run painfree for as long and far as i want (forefoot excluded ).
my brother has a completely different issue to myself, he has major ITB issues and cant do ANYTHING without carrying that little foam roller thingy around with him. so then he started telling me he cant go do this or that cos it might flare up his ITB's and its apparently very sore. so i told him I am running barefoot and it did cure my shinsplints. he did the Wild Horse trail run with me this weekend and both of us in our barefoot shoes over sand, gravel, pebbles, rocks and through water. (me in bikilas and him in merrells)
neither of us get anything other then sore calves and slightly sore feet after long runs.
in my honest opinion i think barefoot is the way to go, its just a very long, slow, tiresome process that to me is completely worth it.
take it easy, listen to your body. if you are a hardcore runner just see what a slow 3km does to your body. it will like said previously point out your weaknesses and then you proceed accordingly.

[SeeDanRun]

Arnoruns, on 27 April 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

I have been barefooting it for about 3 months now and its honestly still a work in progress. the biggest strides(excuse the pun) in development i seem to be making when i go completely barefoot for my 2km extremely light jog on pavement. i run over pavement, concrete sidewalk and a short bit with lots of pebbles and stones. i keep it light as possible due to the surfaces i run on.

Hi Arno,

Why the barefoot pavement jogs?  Is this just to toughen up the feet so the trails/grass feel easy?

Dan

[Arnoruns]

Hey Dan,

hmmm good question. i just really started doing it that way. i figured i should be able to run on all sorts of terrain eventually and when i started i just jogged down the road along the pavement to see if it would 'hurt'. it didnt so i ended up ligthly jogging the 2km.
i did the next day go to the local cricket ground but found the grass from recent rain/flooding to be too soft and soggy so resorted to jog back home which resulted in another 2km pavement jog. i figured that due to the uncompromising nature of the surface im running on that i would need to bend the knees more, my stride was extremely short and just pay more attention to how my foot was making contact with the ground.
The good thing i found this way was that because my foot was so sensitive i was really cautious and never once did i heel strike, if anything i was over pronating and felt extreme calf pain after my first 2 or 3 attempts.
also to note was my pace was very slow. i think i was doing something like 8min/km or even slower. the key to this is building yourself up. once your foot, ankle and calf gets loaded and stressed in all these new ways the pain you feel is progress. by pain I dont mean sharp pains or injury. you need to understand the difference.

just take it easy as possible to see how your body reacts as you might not feel the pain that might come while ur at it!

[Unlikelyrunner]

Someone should lock this thread into a time capsual and open it up again in 50* years.

During the 50* year gap I am sure that every runner evolved/shifted to barefoot running, or minimalistic shoe coverings at least, and then over time the human body started to develop genetic problems with this, and so scientists/inventors created the KT 26 Mark II & the Dunlop Volley Mark II, and this became the Reebok sneaker, then Nike jump on board, and the whole circle of life goes around again.

* substitute any number that you feel appropropriate

[Arnoruns]

interesting you say that. where does it say we developed genetic problems in the past that we needed shoes? afaik shoes even to this day are a sign of afluence. when we see doco's about poor african children they love using the phrase "oh those poor children, they dont even have any shoes".

shoes to me are a fashion statement, if you have some misformed part or malaligned structure in your lower leg/foot which inhibits you from running barefoot naturally then i think shoes to correct an issue are necessary.
this is all my own opinion might i add

[Freesoul]

Arnoruns, on 28 April 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

interesting you say that. where does it say we developed genetic problems in the past that we needed shoes? afaik shoes even to this day are a sign of afluence. when we see doco's about poor african children they love using the phrase "oh those poor children, they dont even have any shoes".

shoes to me are a fashion statement, if you have some misformed part or malaligned structure in your lower leg/foot which inhibits you from running barefoot naturally then i think shoes to correct an issue are necessary.
this is all my own opinion might i add

Yeah, there's this aversion to barefootedness like it's a sign of dirtiness or lack of money. If I see someone else barefoot I initially think, "are you a scruffy down-and-out dude about to mug me?", but then I think, "shoes are just a fashion statement" (like you, Arnoruns). I reckon it takes a paradigm shift to see that shoes are not good for your feet, and are actually a carryover from the days when it was unhealthy to step in manure/mud/human faeces during the industrial revolution in Europe.
I'm quite happy to go around barefoot myself though. I try not to worry about what other people think, but if challenged, I would probably cry and fall to pieces. I'm not good with conflict!

Good on you, Arnoruns, for running on different surfaces. I reckon we need to challenge ourselves with varying terrain. What you think is difficult to run on now may be easy in a few months time. You are tougher than you think! Don't limit yourself!

[Ponytail]

undercover brother, on 18 February 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

ouch.
could i suggest if you are new at something that asking for advice from people then abusing them isn't a great idea.
part of learning is not only asking questions but also listening to the responses.
enjoy and good luck.

I got to this point and wondered why there were so many helpful replies as I felt the same. You ask for advice and then shoot down seasoned runners' responses.  The fact is, many parts of running can be frustrating, especially when it comes to injury.  I will inflame your frustrations by adding that my first barefoot attempt was approx 5k of a 25k run (on the beach, mind you) and I pulled up superbly.  

We are all different and our bodies adapt differently to the pressures of running.  I get your frustration, but maybe try to be a bit more tactful with your responses to people who are trying to help, even if it is contrary to what you want to hear.  Not trying to shoot you down in flames or anything...I just know I've asked the members of this forum many times before for advice and value everything they offer, even if it flies in the face of what I've experienced.

Anyway, best of luck and keep us all posted with your progress!

[Arnoruns]

blatant was a bit blatant but i think he was just very frustrated and perhaps was hoping that instead of injury he would start seeing improvement.
Nice bit of running there Ponytail! 5km in your first go is phenomenal! Are you using barefoot to strengthen or just point out technical issues or are you transitioning to full time minimalist?
I ask because i recently *lost* my 12mth old Asics and am now literally forced to barefoot LOL. i wanted to eventually be a barefoot/minimalist runner but thought i would sort of do short runs in my Vibrams and then jump into my regular shoes for longer or faster races.. not having a choice now sort of put me in the deep end but im happy for it.

[Hampster]

So many great stories and opinions here. I like the idea of looking back at this topic in 50 years.

For my part, I agree that just act of taking your shoes off wont fix everything (or even anything) and can create new issues, but I do see losing the shoes as a part of a progression to being a better runner.

I first took up running about 3 years ago and had a terrible start, bad knees etc etc. Heard about the barefoot thing and gave it go, I took to it instantly and started increasing distances quickly, this led to stress fractures in my foot. But I took this for what it was, my fault for jumping in after 31 years of not running I thought that I could just go out there and 'do it'!

Since then I have taken a more moderate approach, I live in my vibrams and wear vivo barefoots to work, but I run on the pavement in minimalst shoes, like innov-8 or the new NB minimus. I pay a lot of attention to my form and how my foot strikes. My goal is to work back to barefoot running as my body adapts to it.

It doesn't mean that I have been injury free, I have had ITBS and more recently hip issues, but all have been overcome with a focus on form by reading lots on Chi, Pose and other and working these ideas in along with having a good physio that understands running.

I am still not a good or fast runner  and probably never will be, but I am a runner, and a happy one. I encourage all to run, and to invest in working on form, what shoes you wear is less important. But I feel that working towards barefoot is a worth while journey.

Edited by Hampster, 29 April 2011 - 10:58 AM.

[SMCRoadRaceSeries]

Freesoul, on 28 April 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

Yeah, there's this aversion to barefootedness like it's a sign of dirtiness or lack of money. If I see someone else barefoot I initially think, "are you a scruffy down-and-out dude about to mug me?", but then I think, "shoes are just a fashion statement" (like you, Arnoruns). I reckon it takes a paradigm shift to see that shoes are not good for your feet, and are actually a carryover from the days when it was unhealthy to step in manure/mud/human faeces during the industrial revolution in Europe.

Interesting view...but could it not just be that some experienced people are saying "why do something that even the best in the world find is not beneficial in both speed and injuries" ??

I grew up barefeet and walk around home without shoes too, but running shoes are better for my running at the pace I do it.

When we compare through history, mankind never ran 42km in 2hrs or even 4hrs, let alone on asphalt. The bushmen in Kalahari di up to 30km in a day on sand dunes at no more than walking pace mostly as they tracked their dinner....and speaking of which, a youtube video on them shows them wearing shoes these days.

The aversion is more to why the west always tries to find a silver bullet to cure things and at the same time generate an industry out of it. We blame the shoes for our injuries when one can argue it enabled 1000's to take up the sport comfortably.

Edited by SMCRoadRaceSeries, 29 April 2011 - 10:46 AM.

[HillsAths1]

Again the dreaded Barefoot V Shoes debate continues.

I am not a barefoot runner, but I have done a fair few KM's in spikes which in my way of looking at things is a pretty similar action to what most would consider normal for barefoot running.

Having said that I cannot see myself going for runs on the road or bush without some sort of foot protection,I am reasonably happy with my running at the moment so will continue running in my well cushioned shoes for my road runs, in the same manner as the majority of the top 10 finishers in just about every race in the world, yes there are a couple of exceptions (but very few).

Barefooters I am glad that you have found something that works for you.

[Freesoul]

Hampster, on 29 April 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

I am still not a good or fast runner  and probably never will be, but I am a runner, and a happy one. I encourage all to run, and to invest in working on form, what shoes you wear is less important. But I feel that working towards barefoot is a worth while journey.

Gold!

[Ponytail]

Arnoruns, on 29 April 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

blatant was a bit blatant but i think he was just very frustrated and perhaps was hoping that instead of injury he would start seeing improvement.
Nice bit of running there Ponytail! 5km in your first go is phenomenal! Are you using barefoot to strengthen or just point out technical issues or are you transitioning to full time minimalist?
I ask because i recently *lost* my 12mth old Asics and am now literally forced to barefoot LOL. i wanted to eventually be a barefoot/minimalist runner but thought i would sort of do short runs in my Vibrams and then jump into my regular shoes for longer or faster races.. not having a choice now sort of put me in the deep end but im happy for it.

In the warmer weather, I was finding my feet were sweltering and feeling smothered in my shoes and runners on my longer, slower runs.  The sight of the cool sand beside me was just too much to resist.  The feeling of the soft, cool sand under my feet was absolute bliss.  Granted, it slowed my pace somewhat, but what was ok - I wasn't running for time and actually was happy to slow the pace for a while.  I am not looking to transition, but quite enjoy the variation of running barefoot on grass or sand at times.  My current runners actually cause some discomfort under my arches on longer runs so it feels good for my feet to go "naked" for a bit.

[dave1678]

tdm, on 18 February 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Well blatant, I applaud your fearless attitude, but . . .  I think Barefoot Ted put it perfectly when he said "Think orchard growing, not fast food."
I don't know how much you've read about barefoot running, but here's a link to some tips:
http://groups.google...s-beginner-tips
Relax and ease into it gradually, I reckon. It's not a quick fix for anything.

Quick Fix: Going for 30min barefoot run solves my knee pain for about a week

[RobHall]

top of foot pain and anterior shin pain might have been caused by the fact you have to hold your toes up so you don't remove every shred of skin on them.

[nofootprints]

Arn

Softness in your body will remove stress.

Keep experimenting. Try bending your knees more when you run - you may find it will ease your lower leg stress.

Arn, on 18 February 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

Hi Blatant,

I'm not a barefoot runner but I did find the appeal of changing my running style too much to resist. I've kept my shoes on but moved to a forefoot/midfoot strike over the last 18months and have found a few things.

Firstly I pronate horribly and normally wear orthotics to reduce that pronation. Even with the change in style I find that running for too long (more than a couple of times per week) without my orthotics tends to create a lot of stress around my feet and lower legs. My conclusion from this is that some of us can still benefit from some mechanical assistance. I'm sure the true barefooters would have a bit to say about this

However my capacity for greater speed has increased considerably. It just feels so much nicer when I find that groove. During my speed work I'm zooming along at what used to be my top speed but I now feel that with increased fitness I'll be able to continue to increase the pace. Note that it has taken almost 18 months of slow running to get to this point and thats just changing running style let alone going barefoot!

[AndrewGills]

I also started out only doing short distances BF. I started by walking a lap of a football field at the end of my short shod training runs. Then I increased to running a lap before moving to warming up in shoes then carrying my shoes for 1km while running on bare feet - mostly at 7-8min/km. I focused on technique and being light on my feet for the first 2 months, never going more than 2km BF.

Suddenly it came to me and now I can run as far as I want in BF. My ITB syndrome and shin splints don't bother me when I run BF - a great thing after years of pain. The only time I wear shoes is when I'm racing triathlon (required by the rules) and when I'm running on gravel fire trails (my feet aren't that tough yet).

I've not tried Vibrams or similar because they are so expensive.

But no - I don't think BF is for everyone. I think a lot of BFing is mental - for me it's about feeling like a kid again who just runs for pleasure.