169 replies to this topic

[arrtgrrl]

Six foot has the best aid stations :-)

[ausrunning]

Alex Matthews ran 2.28 (PB?) in Hobart this morning.

[howcanhegosofast]

Unlikelyrunner, on 13 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Last year I was in Wave 3, sat behind heaps of people down to the river, and passed about 60 between there and the finish.  If I was pushed back into wave 4 I cannot imagine the delays I may face getting down to the river.

So does this mean there is no way to easily pass others getting down to the river ? Can't you just squeeze by or blow past on the technical bits ?
What if you were to try to go out at the front of a later wave - is it likely you would get a clean run down or instead catch the tail-enders of the wave in front on the downhill ?

[Twopennys]

There are plenty of passing opportunities - all it takes is a bit of patience by the passer and a bit of courtesy by the passee. True - Conga lines can get a bit frustrating but remember; unless you're one of the elite, you're race hasn't started yet - any energy you save on this leg will come in handy on Blacks Range.

Be calm - don't sweat what you can't control.

Edited by Twopennys, 14 January 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[howcanhegosofast]

Sounds like a good plan twopennys. Don't really want to go anaerobic so early and end up down the river. Liking the idea of the downhill finish to Jenolan, have to leave some go go in the tank for that I think...

[Jogger]

As a 10-time finisher, and a recent runner of some fairly unspectacular times from w2, w3 I can honestly say that my times were not impacted by the particular wave or conga lines. As twopenny's said there are ample places to overtake, but lots of rude/impatient runners out there making it dangerous for all.

Overall, way too much is written about wave starts - I think the system is fair and people should go with what they are allocated.

Even I spent some good time cruising past all the "pushers" along black range rd :-)

[Tom31]

Action - where is the 8 weeks to go Tip of the Week?  I'm relying on you.

[Action]

Tom31, on 16 January 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Action - where is the 8 weeks to go Tip of the Week?  I'm relying on you.

maaaate, guilty as charged. didn't realise anyone was watching

8 weeks to go...  ok, so 7 weeks, 5 days to be precise.

Ok, race tip this time.  To quote a great book, Don't Panic.  Time "lost" before the river is repaid many times through to the road. Don't worry about conga lines, just pass when you can without busting a boiler. Both physically and psychologically, feeling underdone at Cox's is the best possible situation to be in.  Passing people as you climb the gentle slopes is great for morale. So, in the words of the great 6ft wave statistician, Hatless, "go slow to the river".  Sprinting to the top of the stairs merely puts you in oxygen debt and lactic overload, all at 500m into what is the equivalent of a 60k road run.  Don't do it.  Nothing to gain. Really.

[Power]

Action, on 16 January 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

maaaate, guilty as charged. didn't realise anyone was watching

8 weeks to go...  ok, so 7 weeks, 5 days to be precise.

Ok, race tip this time.  To quote a great book, Don't Panic.  Time "lost" before the river is repaid many times through to the road. Don't worry about conga lines, just pass when you can without busting a boiler. Both physically and psychologically, feeling underdone at Cox's is the best possible situation to be in.  Passing people as you climb the gentle slopes is great for morale. So, in the words of the great 6ft wave statistician, Hatless, "go slow to the river".  Sprinting to the top of the stairs merely puts you in oxygen debt and lactic overload, all at 500m into what is the equivalent of a 60k road run.  Don't do it.  Nothing to gain. Really.

Seems like a few of us are watching Action. Nice one.
Look forward to the next one. Thanks

[TheRidler]

My PB came off my slowest time at the river. Go with the flow early and don't stress. It'll only burn you out. You need to reach the top of Pluvi with some fuel in the tank.

Ridler

[Darshan]

Power, on 16 January 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Seems like a few of us are watching Action. Nice one.
Look forward to the next one. Thanks

+1 here need all the help and heads up I can get!!!

[thomo]

Action, you have a SFT Fan Club, don't hold back.

[Action]

TheRidler, on 16 January 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

My PB came off my slowest time at the river. Go with the flow early and don't stress. It'll only burn you out. You need to reach the top of Pluvi with some fuel in the tank.

Ridler

Except for you Ridler, I reckon you can handle going like a bat out of hell to the river... BTW, you are that other 50+ BB'er, aren't you

[langswm]

howcanhegosofast, on 14 January 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Liking the idea of the downhill finish to Jenolan, have to leave some go go in the tank for that I think...

That is the most god-awful part of the entire 45k....

[thomo]

This is the tip and other info thread.

SixFootRaceDirctor feel free to join the banter.

P.S, I have no need to P!ss in his pocket because I have already got a start, just got to get there and the finish line.

That is where the tips come in handy.

[sfGnome]

langswm, on 17 January 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

That is the most god-awful part of the entire 45k....

Dunno. I reckon those couple of insult hills in the deviation are the absolute pits, but I agree there's no pleasure (in fact, there's a hellava lot of pain) in the run down to the caves. One of these times I'm going to still be able to see clearly by the time I get to that section - it hasn't happened yet, but one of these days...  

[Twopennys]

I'm with Gnomey - the second hill (aka the cliff) in the deviation is the absolute pits (even worse in a 2wd car being towed by a ranger)

I luuuurve the run down to the caves - one of the few places I ever manage to pass people Nothing matches the joy of running down a steep hill with wild abandon over broken ground trusting your subconscious to do its thing - the sound of the crowd and the finish line announcer wafting up to beckon you on - bliss!

Edited by Twopennys, 19 January 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[plu]

Hi all,

Quote

Run as much of Black Range as you can.

cheers Plu

[thomo]

Speak to competitors who have done the event many times.

Listen to the valuable informaton they have to offer.

I have been lucky enough to have been given great advice.

Forewarned is better than arriving at the start and being overwhelmed with no knowledge.

Just my 2c's worth.

[TheRidler]

To anyone who is reading this stuff.

We all know to train hard, get on the trails and train on hills, but after my first race there were two things that I found I needed to work on, they were; 1. train on steps going down hill (first time I felt trashed at the bottom of the 500ish steps) 2. don't be fooled into thinking Pluvi is the top of the hill, the Black Range is still going up and if you go too hard too soon it will undo you. I made the mistake of thinking that Black Range would be easy running, you need to have the head space right so that you can start racing at Pluvi and not stop.

Ridler

[Power]

TheRidler, on 21 January 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

To anyone who is reading this stuff.

We all know to train hard, get on the trails and train on hills, but after my first race there were two things that I found I needed to work on, they were; 1. train on steps going down hill (first time I felt trashed at the bottom of the 500ish steps) 2. don't be fooled into thinking Pluvi is the top of the hill, the Black Range is still going up and if you go too hard too soon it will undo you. I made the mistake of thinking that Black Range would be easy running, you need to have the head space right so that you can start racing at Pluvi and not stop.

Ridler

We are reading it Ridler !!
Great advice and feel free to hand it out when ya feel like it.
These tips from ye experienced guys and Actions countdown help us heaps.
Hope I bump into ye all to say thanks.    

Thanks alot !

[plu]

Hi all,
Under 50 days to go. Approaching the km per day  for the race distance  during the week.
Cheers Plu

[Action]

plu, on 21 January 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Hi all,
Under 50 days to go. Approaching the km per day  for the race distance  during the week.
Cheers Plu

Yes, 7 weeks to go... tip this week: get off the road. Stromlo Lightning Strike 30k, Megalong Mega 36k, Quarry  Rd, Mt Ainslie, Great North Walk, Dandenongs.., just get off the road.

[Jusso]

Action, on 21 January 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

Yes, 7 weeks to go... tip this week: get off the road. Stromlo Lightning Strike 30k, Megalong Mega 36k, Quarry  Rd, Mt Ainslie, Great North Walk, Dandenongs.., just get off the road.

Add blackbutt forest!

[run2work]

Jusso, on 23 January 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Add blackbutt forest!

Add Beni forest if you live in Dubbo. Oh, I think I am the only entrant from Dubbo.

[Johnbo]

The only thing that matters in six foot, is feeling good when you reach Pluvi. Sounds simple, doesn't it! But so true.

It is one great feeling if you can arrive on Pluvi a little earlier , or perhaps even later than you expected, feeling good, not needing to stop, and ready and able to float along the Black Range to Deviation and beyond....! When you get to Deviation, gun it to the finish....yes gun it!

It can be done. You just have to egt the first part of the run to Cox's right. And you can go slower to Coxes than you think....protect your quads down nellies as you need them later!

The secret is to train on the course, ideally do a run from Deviation to the river return in training (38 km). It perfectly simulates the way you will or may feel on the big day. Do it twice.

Get it inside your head, that the Black Range is where is all starts and is all that will matter in the end!

And remember to smile at the finish line  

[TheRidler]

Johnbo, on 24 January 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

The only thing that matters in six foot, is feeling good when you reach Pluvi. Sounds simple, doesn't it! But so true.

It is one great feeling if you can arrive on Pluvi a little earlier , or perhaps even later than you expected, feeling good, not needing to stop, and ready and able to float along the Black Range to Deviation and beyond....! When you get to Deviation, gun it to the finish....yes gun it!

It can be done. You just have to egt the first part of the run to Cox's right. And you can go slower to Coxes than you think....protect your quads down nellies as you need them later!

The secret is to train on the course, ideally do a run from Deviation to the river return in training (38 km). It perfectly simulates the way you will or may feel on the big day. Do it twice.

Get it inside your head, that the Black Range is where is all starts and is all that will matter in the end!

And remember to smile at the finish line  

Couldn't have put it better myself johnbo.

If you are a newbie reading this stuff you will see a real patern of info' here. So don't go too hard too soon and don't stress about 'conga' lines.

Something a bit different. I tend to get sand and grit in my shoes, which annoys the hell out of me so I use shoe covers (gaters). It saves an unnecessary stop. I get mine from 'dirtygirls.com'. They do all sorts of bright colours. Mine are green and black (ridler colours). Be careful though the credit card receipt saying 'one pair of dirty girl gaters from dirtygirls.com' took some explaining to the wife.

Ridler

[ganabu]

Or you could go the made in Melbourne version from RocBloc. http://www.rocbloc.net/

Pretty much the same product and delivered next day! I know I'm not supposed to name shops but since they are made by an Aus runner... She deserves a plug.

[Brick]

TheRidler, on 24 January 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Couldn't have put it better myself johnbo.

If you are a newbie reading this stuff you will see a real patern of info' here. So don't go too hard too soon and don't stress about 'conga' lines.

Something a bit different. I tend to get sand and grit in my shoes, which annoys the hell out of me so I use shoe covers (gaters). It saves an unnecessary stop. I get mine from 'dirtygirls.com'. They do all sorts of bright colours. Mine are green and black (ridler colours). Be careful though the credit card receipt saying 'one pair of dirty girl gaters from dirtygirls.com' took some explaining to the wife.

Ridler

Mate you need to get a new pair of shoes Ultr168 have found them for you.
http://www.facebook....&type=1

[TheRidler]

Brick, on 24 January 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

Mate you need to get a new pair of shoes Ultr168 have found them for you.
http://www.facebook....&type=1

Cool, love the colour. All they need is a couple of question marks and they would be perfect.

Ridler

[Power]

Action Action Action ????????

[fhorn]

Just thought I would post following a training run out on the track yesterday and knowing that Megalong Mega is on next weekend. We (other half who is entered and myself not entered so just along for the ride/fun????) started at Megalong road and went to Pluvi and back..so the equivalent of Megalong Mega. Despite recent rain no problem with the ford/causeway on the road approaching the start.

Nice and cool temps, about 14 degrees..tho' got up to probably 20 by the end, very humid though and not a breath of wind which made it feel warmer somehow.Also managed to get sunburnt despite overcast coniditions so another lesson there (didn't apply sunscreen as thought didn't need it...wrong!)

We wimped out and took the bridge crossing the Cox's but met some other runners who said they had waded the river and it was waist height,although the v. fit looking bloke who told us that was pretty tall so we reckoned it would have been chest height for us being of the vertically challenged variety.

Very muddy in parts around Allum creek and bottom of Pluvi. A hint for newbies is that at Allum creek you will get your feet wet three times due to the meandering of the creek so if you are thinking of doing the wringing out socks routine then wait until the third soaking at this particular point.Lots of grit in the socks from the fast flowing water which led to a few blisters...if you are blister prone then probably an idea to carry some heavy duty Band-aids (I usually do this but forgot this time)and/or apply beforehand.

We walked most of Mini Mini and Pluvi and enjoyed running the downhills on the way back...good traction due to the damp tracks so thankfully no tumbles.

Partner did around 6 hours while I did about half an hour more...gotta say that the training really works as I haven't done any at all and really struggled whereas other half who has been following the NRG program looked good and more importantly is off out for a walk this morning while I can hardly move thus the comfort of sitting at the computer.

Good luck to all doing Megalong Mega and Six Foot...what a special and challenging run it truly is!!

[Action]

under 6 weeks now... (5 weeks 5 days) (sorry, been away!).

Doing your hills?  Good.  Doing your speedwork?  Why?

For most of us, 6ft is strength and time on feet, not speed.  The average pace to win it about 4:20 per km - that is not even 3hr marathon pace. There is still time to do the long ones, preferably hilly long ones. If you are trail challenged, that is to say, no opportunity to run the rough stuff, then don't stick to the smooth stuff - if there is a rough footpath, take it, if there is a grass verge hit it, if there are gutters run up and down them, if there are tree roots, try not to trip over them but run there anyway.  Running on the rough stuff improves balance, and strengthens those little muscles that just don't get a workout on the road, and every little bit helps.

[TheRidler]

Action, on 30 January 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

under 6 weeks now... (5 weeks 5 days) (sorry, been away!).

Doing your hills?  Good.  Doing your speedwork?  Why?

For most of us, 6ft is strength and time on feet, not speed.  The average pace to win it about 4:20 per km - that is not even 3hr marathon pace. There is still time to do the long ones, preferably hilly long ones. If you are trail challenged, that is to say, no opportunity to run the rough stuff, then don't stick to the smooth stuff - if there is a rough footpath, take it, if there is a grass verge hit it, if there are gutters run up and down them, if there are tree roots, try not to trip over them but run there anyway.  Running on the rough stuff improves balance, and strengthens those little muscles that just don't get a workout on the road, and every little bit helps.

Ditto. I find trail running helps with my core strength. A strong core is crucial. So if you can't get on trails do some core excerises. It is also the Megalong Mega on Sunday. A great chance to see the course. It's out and back so you don't have to do it all if you don't want to.

Ridler

[Sarge]

Action, on 30 January 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

under 6 weeks now... (5 weeks 5 days) (sorry, been away!).

Doing your hills?  Good.  Doing your speedwork?  Why?

For most of us, 6ft is strength and time on feet, not speed.  The average pace to win it about 4:20 per km - that is not even 3hr marathon pace. There is still time to do the long ones, preferably hilly long ones. If you are trail challenged, that is to say, no opportunity to run the rough stuff, then don't stick to the smooth stuff - if there is a rough footpath, take it, if there is a grass verge hit it, if there are gutters run up and down them, if there are tree roots, try not to trip over them but run there anyway.  Running on the rough stuff improves balance, and strengthens those little muscles that just don't get a workout on the road, and every little bit helps.

Keep this type of advice up and everyone will improve so much that I'll be running from wave 6 in a few years!!!!

[Tom31]

First tip I disagree with Action.  Everyone needs speed training in their schedule - doesn't just help you run faster but encourages good form and makes the steadier runs feel more comfortable.

[Johnbo]

Tom31, on 31 January 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

First tip I disagree with Action.  Everyone needs speed training in their schedule - doesn't just help you run faster but encourages good form and makes the steadier runs feel more comfortable.

Agree that speed training is beneficial all round in running, but is certainly not a primary factor in running six foot. If you have got everyting else right first, then yes.

In order of priority i would rate (you can juggle a few of the below to suit your preference, but 7 stays at no. 7)

1. Stamina and endurance (mental and physical)
2. Running in Bush and on trails.
3. Hill climbing technique / Glutes should hurt after not hammies or calves
4. Hill descending technique / protecting your quads
5. More Hills. training on the course
6. Getting to Pluvi with a smile on your face and feeling good (actually this could also be no. 1)
7. A bit of speed in the legs as the icing on top. Speed training will not prepare you for 1 through to 6!

[Action]

Johnbo, on 31 January 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Agree that speed training is beneficial all round in running, but is certainly not a primary factor in running six foot. If you have got everyting else right first, then yes.

In order of priority i would rate (you can juggle a few of the below to suit your preference, but 7 stays at no. 7)

1. Stamina and endurance (mental and physical)
2. Running in Bush and on trails.
3. Hill climbing technique / Glutes should hurt after not hammies or calves
4. Hill descending technique / protecting your quads
5. More Hills. training on the course
6. Getting to Pluvi with a smile on your face and feeling good (actually this could also be no. 1)
7. A bit of speed in the legs as the icing on top. Speed training will not prepare you for 1 through to 6!

Well said. I agree.  I understand where Tom is coming from, and for just about any other race (or training program) I would definitely include speed, but in just this case, for the vast majority of runners, speed work is a nice to have, but hills are a musst have.

[walshy2]

Agree with all of these great tips.

One thing I would add, is that it is also useful to get used to running again after walking, and this is where hill training (steep), is so important.

It is both a mental and physical thing to be able to re-commence solid running after walking for periods.

So much time can be lost by failing to know when to walk, when to run, and when to start running again after walking.

As an example 2 years ago at 6ft I saw a guy who pretty much tried to run most of the course from the river to Pluvi, albeit very slowly. He would get away from me on the downhills, but uphill my power walking was actually faster than his running and with less effort. We got to Pluvi around the same time and he then finished 1/2 an hour behind me and I'm sure he was spent at Pluvi.

Get plenty of long runs in as others have said, off roads and on hills, but spend time on your feet mixing running with walking, then running again etc

[Tuttle]

Without setting out to contradict what other faster, and more experienced 6-Footers are suggesting, and conceding that what works for one person might be totally irrelevant for others, my 6FT pb (from 4 attempts) came after an 18-month period when I was dealing with a recalcitrant case of Achilles tendonosis that precluded any sort of hill training.  During that time, however, I was able to do plenty of tempo runs, and even a little faster stuff (my aversion to "speedwork" notwithstanding).
Just a thought.....
Cheers,
Chris

[run2work]

walshy2, on 31 January 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

As an example 2 years ago at 6ft I saw a guy who pretty much tried to run most of the course from the river to Pluvi, albeit very slowly. He would get away from me on the downhills, but uphill my power walking was actually faster than his running and with less effort. We got to Pluvi around the same time and he then finished 1/2 an hour behind me and I'm sure he was spent at Pluvi.

That run you did two years ago was a runner on fire. You scooted over that last 15 km. I don't think anybody with you after Pluvi kept up or passed you, you were running that well!
r2w

[Action]

5 weeks to go.  

This weeks tip - plan your last 5 weeks, preferably day-by-day. 2 more big km weeks, a medium week and 2 weeks of taper.  Some like 3 weeks taper, but 2 is definitely the minimum if you have been putting the work in.  Keep up the long runs, there is even time for one more "long" long run. Squeeze in a race in those 3 weeks to check out your form.  

Those last 3 long runs are your last chance to test your nutrition plan - important.

[Action]

26 days.... scary huh?

Simple physics says that every extra bit of weight you carry requires energy to carry it during the race.  Carrying an extra 750 grams is an extra 1% for a 75kg runner.   1% on a 5hr race time is 3 minutes... So, for example, carrying water?  Do you really need to?  There are many drink stops on the way. Think about all your gear. Do you really need it on a well provisioned course such as 6ft?

[arrtgrrl]

hmm have been thinking about this very thing.. thinking about doing away with the fuelbelt this year and just carrying some gels in a spi belt..

[Action]

arrtgrrl, on 13 February 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

hmm have been thinking about this very thing.. thinking about doing away with the fuelbelt this year and just carrying some gels in a spi belt..

...except for BBers, they have to carry their 6 pack with them

[Johnbo]

....and thats just the6 pack consumed as part of the carbing up before hand.

We also have to work out how to carry the six bottles for after. I have yet to find a spibelt that grips properly around the bottle necks of Little Creatures...

[Coogee1979M]

Action, on 13 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

26 days.... scary huh?

Simple physics says that every extra bit of weight you carry requires energy to carry it during the race.  Carrying an extra 750 grams is an extra 1% for a 75kg runner.   1% on a 5hr race time is 3 minutes... So, for example, carrying water?  Do you really need to?  There are many drink stops on the way. Think about all your gear. Do you really need it on a well provisioned course such as 6ft?

You're right about the drink stops - nearly all of them are well-stocked.  However for wave 4 runners, many aid stations run out of food and other items.  Runners in waves 1 and 2 (and probably most of wave 3) can probably get away with relying on food / food substitutes provided at aid stations, however, runners in wave 4 run the genuine risk of missing out at some.

[Action]

Coogee1979M, on 13 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Action, on 13 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

26 days.... scary huh?

Simple physics says that every extra bit of weight you carry requires energy to carry it during the race.  Carrying an extra 750 grams is an extra 1% for a 75kg runner.   1% on a 5hr race time is 3 minutes... So, for example, carrying water?  Do you really need to?  There are many drink stops on the way. Think about all your gear. Do you really need it on a well provisioned course such as 6ft?

You're right about the drink stops - nearly all of them are well-stocked.  However for wave 4 runners, many aid stations run out of food and other items.  Runners in waves 1 and 2 (and probably most of wave 3) can probably get away with relying on food / food substitutes provided at aid stations, however, runners in wave 4 run the genuine risk of missing out at some.

With respect, I disagree!  My experience last year (when I was hiding behind a broom) was a good feed and plenty to drink all the way.  The catering has been upped in the last few years.

BTW, 5 waves this year.

[Coogee1979M]

Action, on 13 February 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Coogee1979M, on 13 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Action, on 13 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

26 days.... scary huh?

Simple physics says that every extra bit of weight you carry requires energy to carry it during the race.  Carrying an extra 750 grams is an extra 1% for a 75kg runner.   1% on a 5hr race time is 3 minutes... So, for example, carrying water?  Do you really need to?  There are many drink stops on the way. Think about all your gear. Do you really need it on a well provisioned course such as 6ft?

You're right about the drink stops - nearly all of them are well-stocked.  However for wave 4 runners, many aid stations run out of food and other items.  Runners in waves 1 and 2 (and probably most of wave 3) can probably get away with relying on food / food substitutes provided at aid stations, however, runners in wave 4 run the genuine risk of missing out at some.

With respect, I disagree!  My experience last year (when I was hiding behind a broom) was a good feed and plenty to drink all the way.  The catering has been upped in the last few years.

BTW, 5 waves this year.

I agree that the aid stations in 2011 were better stocked in 2010.  However my experience in 2010 was that there were several aid stations that had run out of some food items, and a couple that were out of hi-5 drink. If 2012 is like 2011 then there may not be much to worry about.  If 2012 is like 2010 then 'well provisioned ' won't be an accurate description.

Edited by Coogee1979M, 13 February 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Brick]

Coogee1979M, on 13 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Action, on 13 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

26 days.... scary huh?

Simple physics says that every extra bit of weight you carry requires energy to carry it during the race.  Carrying an extra 750 grams is an extra 1% for a 75kg runner.   1% on a 5hr race time is 3 minutes... So, for example, carrying water?  Do you really need to?  There are many drink stops on the way. Think about all your gear. Do you really need it on a well provisioned course such as 6ft?

You're right about the drink stops - nearly all of them are well-stocked.  However for wave 4 runners, many aid stations run out of food and other items.  Runners in waves 1 and 2 (and probably most of wave 3) can probably get away with relying on food / food substitutes provided at aid stations, however, runners in wave 4 run the genuine risk of missing out at some.

Last year all aid stations had everything including coke and gels.
And I was also pacing so back of the pack.