59 replies to this topic

[hockeyrunner]

im a mid twenties fella that currently runs about a 40min 10k and has done a 1hr30 half marathon off no specific or regular training and am hoping to run 10km in 35 mins by the end of the year. is this realistic?

im pretty dedicated but after a real stop start campaign due to work, holidays and sport im currently still building up.
my current training involved 3 or 4 20-30km bike rides, 2 sports training sessions, 1 short running session, a 12.5km sunday run at 4.40km/h pace, a 10km run at 4.30km/h pace and a 7.5km at 4min/h pace plus obviously one match on a saturdays. fridays need to be a full rest day.

where should i be aiming to get too with my training load in order to push for a 35 min run in 4 months time? if anyone can draw up a rough weekly plan i would much appreciate it. also plan on running some half marathons over the summer.

[Easy Tiger]

Hockey is great training for running, not sure if you can make your sub 35min goal though. Only time will tell, 30sec per km requires a huge improvement. However, anything is possible with hard work and specific training, it took me 12 months to go from over 40min to 35.06 whilst still playing hockey. Slightly unrelated to your quest but you may be interested to know, during Gold Coast Half Marathon on the weekend i passed a familiar looking face in the final km, we both ended up just either side of 76min. Only 3 years ago we were team mates in the NSW hockey team. Possibly just a coincidence, but i reckon any good hockey player could run well in any distance from 100m to 10km's.

[Colin]

I'd say you can do it given that you are in your twenties and already running those times off hockey training.
Easy Tiger has specific hockey/running experience with similar improvement but I used to play soccer and ran pretty fast straight away (around 40min 10km) and made rapid improvement once I did a bit of real running training...3 months from >3hrs to 2:43.

When I played about three games of futsal back in late 90's/early 00's I also ran well off very little weekly mileage.

Keep us posted on how you go...I am always interested in this sort of thing.

cheers

[Easy Tiger]

Should've added, that i haven't actually improved my 10km much since giving up hockey and 'specifically' training for running. Just much skinnier, less speed and more endurance. The effort required to repeatedly sprint with short recoveries for 2x35min blocks each saturday is as good an 800m to 10km training session you could ever do.

As Colin said, the same would apply to soccer or for that matter Aussie Rules, Rugby or any other sport which requires a good mix of speed and endurance. Nothing like the fear of letting your team mates down to spur you beyond perceived limits.

[Mixie]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with comments made.

I played soccer and training consisted of 3 laps of field warm up and then sharp short sprints/turns etc-longest interval was 400 meter flat out around park-this training was specific to soccer but doubt it would be very useful for 10k training.

In fact my 10k was around 44 mins then-having gave up soccer and trained specifically for running 10k now around 35-36 min mark which is down to greater endurance(long runs)  and specific longer speed sessions ie 4-5*2 k or 8*1k at race pace with 2 minute recoveries.

If u want to reduce your 10k time,then u need to increase your running-minimum 4 weekly runs consisting 1 long run say 90 mins,tempo run 20-40 mins around 15k race pace,1 interval session either at 10k pace or faster depending on length of intervals and 1 recovery run.

Its' important to base your interval times/tempo runs on your current 10k pace ie 40 mins not what u are targeting ie 35 mins-u could run a 10k in 4-6 weeks time to see how u are progressing and change training times appropriately

[Colin]

Mixie, on Jul 8 2009, 10:02 AM, said:

I'm afraid I have to disagree with comments made.

In fact my 10k was around 44 mins then-having gave up soccer and trained specifically for running 10k now around 35-36 min mark which is down to greater endurance(long runs)  and specific longer speed sessions ie 4-5*2 k or 8*1k at race pace with 2 minute recoveries.

You disagree but then are an example of even greater improvement once you added specific running training...as we did.   You just started from a lower base...perhaps you didn't train as hard when playing soccer, or maybe play as hard

Mixie, on Jul 8 2009, 10:02 AM, said:

Its' important to base your interval times/tempo runs on your current 10k pace ie 40 mins not what u are targeting ie 35 mins-u could run a 10k in 4-6 weeks time to see how u are progressing and change training times appropriately

This is something I see others doing as well.

OK...if you can already run 10km continuously at 4min/km...how would 5 or 10 intervals of 4min/km with rest be harder?

Rule of thumb for me was 1km intervals at 5km pace...shorter intervals even faster.

cheers

[Oporto]

Easy Tiger, on Jul 7 2009, 09:33 PM, said:

Possibly just a coincidence, but i reckon any good hockey player could run well in any distance from 100m to 10km's.

Even the fat bloke who normally plays in goal?

Took me ages to get under 35 but I reckon most of it is mental.  Largely agree with Minxie, you need at least 3 quality sessions a week, one long slow run (at least 90 mins), one set of long intervals off short rests at 3:35 per/km pace (say 8 x 1.5km off 90 seconds rest) and some speed work with longer rests (400's work best for me).

Good luck.

[Rico]

Time has probably made my reminiscences unreliable, but I remember soccer matches being like 90 minute interval sessions and training being like a 2 hour interval session.

Based on this I would have thought someone coming off a football/hockey base would find improvement hard as there aren't any easy gains to be made by introducing speed work because it's already there.

But such theorising is obviously less relevant than the real life experiences of some of the people here.

[Mixie]

Rico, on Jul 7 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

Time has probably made my reminiscences unreliable, but I remember soccer matches being like 90 minute interval sessions and training being like a 2 hour interval session.

Based on this I would have thought someone coming off a football/hockey base would find improvement hard as there aren't any easy gains to be made by introducing speed work because it's already there.

But such theorising is obviously less relevant than the real life experiences of some of the people here.


Soccer training is nearly opposite to 10k training.

Soccer is all about turn of pace,quickness on turn and training is geared towards that-sharp sprints maybe couple of 400 meter repeats flat out maximum definately no long runs or longer interval training.
From memory,endurance is built up by becoming match fit-ie playing 60 mins,70 mins etc in practise matches before season commenced.

In fact if I played a soccer game 2day,would be sore for a few days afterwards .

I would say there is a closer correlation to soccer training and shorter distance training ie 100 meters-400 meters but this is only guess on my behalf.

Like any sport/event,specificity in training is crucial in order to attain your goal

[Mixie]

Hi Colin,
              I didn't see your comments before I added my reply so will respond below

I agree that my 10k times were slower when playing soccer and think we are making same point.
Did start from a lower base because my training was soccer based not 10k base.

Agree with u on intervals and maybe didn't make myself clear in original post.

If only doing 5* 1k repeats of course run them at 5k pace but I was talking about 4-5 * 2k repeats and say 8*1k repeats which I do at 10k pace.
Likewise if I'm doing 8*400 meters will run them at 3k pace.

I like the longer repeats because they are race specific to 10k but will throw in faster sessions 2-3 times per month

[HillsAths1]

Mixie I knew your original post was going to elicit counter arguments, I agree and disagree with some of your post, most fit and healthy sportspersons can move between sports without too much of a problem. Soccer AFL etc all require certain degrees of fitness in order to compete as does running. In the team sports mentioned some of the positions require more or less fitness than other positions.

Another real life account of 40 to 35min was achieve on the weekend. A runner I coach, had been struggling to break 40 mins for 10km and it was his big goal. Last year he ran SMC 10km and managed just over 41 min in the last of the season(a couple of weeks ago) he ran just over 37 min, he was very happy.

On the weekend he ran the GC half and managed to run 78.30 on the way he ran a high 35 for the 10km and pretty much carried on to the finish in good shape(slowed a little).

In short it can be done, but it is also hard work as both Tiger and Colin will attest that the better you run, the returns on extra training are more marginal.

Hockey keep at it, find a good group to train with and you will see the results.

[Mixie]

HillsAths1, on Jul 7 2009, 11:31 PM, said:

Mixie I knew your original post was going to elicit counter arguments, I agree and disagree with some of your post, most fit and healthy sportspersons can move between sports without too much of a problem. Soccer AFL etc all require certain degrees of fitness in order to compete as does running. In the team sports mentioned some of the positions require more or less fitness than other positions.

Another real life account of 40 to 35min was achieve on the weekend. A runner I coach, had been struggling to break 40 mins for 10km and it was his big goal. Last year he ran SMC 10km and managed just over 41 min in the last of the season(a couple of weeks ago) he ran just over 37 min, he was very happy.

On the weekend he ran the GC half and managed to run 78.30 on the way he ran a high 35 for the 10km and pretty much carried on to the finish in good shape(slowed a little).

In short it can be done, but it is also hard work as both Tiger and Colin will attest that the better you run, the returns on extra training are more marginal.

Hockey keep at it, find a good group to train with and you will see the results.

I think again we are saying same thing

On my current fitness level,I would have no problem playing 2 consectitive soccer/afl games as my training is endurance based(how well I play those games would be negated by the fact my training has not been specific to the sport)

I have no doubt an AFL/Soccer player has the fitness to complete a 10k but they will never reach their full potential until their training is specific to their goal as in the person you trained to run 78 minutes in Gold Coast.

I don't agree the better u run,the returns on extra training are more marginal of course with the obvious proviso that u don't get injured.
It depends more on the quality of training that u are doing,for example if u can run 10k in 35 mins with little specific run training then u will get same incremental benefit % as somebody slower who is doing same training as u.

[Colin]

Think we are going around in circles Mixie

Mixie, on Jul 8 2009, 12:57 PM, said:

I think again we are saying same thing
.....
I have no doubt an AFL/Soccer player has the fitness to complete a 10k but they will never reach their full potential until their training is specific to their goal as in the person you trained to run 78 minutes in Gold Coast.

That's what all said...no-one said you will reach your full potential on hockey/soccer/AFL training alone.

Mixie, on Jul 8 2009, 12:57 PM, said:

I don't agree the better u run,the returns on extra training are more marginal of course with the obvious proviso that u don't get injured.
It depends more on the quality of training that u are doing,for example if u can run 10k in 35 mins with little specific run training then u will get same incremental benefit % as somebody slower who is doing same training as u.

[Its like 'economies of scale'...one person building a house in one yr doesn't mean that 1000 people can build it in 3 hrs.]

The closer you are to your maximum potential and if you are already training with a high quality and sufficient mileage then the returns on said training increase would either be non-existent or very marginal.

If that were not the case then the WR's would be improving ad infinitum to zero.

It doesn't take rocket science to know that a hockey playing 40min runner would make greater improvement by doing more running training than that hypothetically same person would do if he is already running 35min off specific running training.

cheers

Edited by Colin, 08 July 2009 - 01:48 PM.

[HillsAths1]

I guess what I was trying to say is that for a 30 min 10k runner to improve 30 seconds, he would have to put in a bigger effort than say a 50 minute runner to get a 30 sec improvement.

[Mixie]

HillsAths1, on Jul 8 2009, 12:46 AM, said:

I guess what I was trying to say is that for a 30 min 10k runner to improve 30 seconds, he would have to put in a bigger effort than say a 50 minute runner to get a 30 sec improvement.

Totally agree but people should focus on percentage improvements rather than time although this is against human nature and am sure u have encountered this as a coach.

I know I'm not going to knock another 8 minutes of my 10k time but if I could get another 3% improvement(1 minute) over a year through consistent training/injury free then I would be stoked.

[Mixie]

Colin, on Jul 8 2009, 12:45 AM, said:

Think we are going around in circles Mixie



That's what all said...no-one said you will reach your full potential on hockey/soccer/AFL training alone.



[Its like 'economies of scale'...one person building a house in one yr doesn't mean that 1000 people can build it in 3 hrs.]

The closer you are to your maximum potential and if you are already training with a high quality and sufficient mileage then the returns on said training increase would either be non-existent or very marginal.

If that were not the case then the WR's would be improving ad infinitum to zero.

It doesn't take rocket science to know that a hockey playing 40min runner would make greater improvement by doing more running training than that hypothetically same person would do if he is already running 35min off specific running training.

cheers

Colin again agree with u and thats' the beauty of running.

We all have a maximum potential and a point of diminishing returns-thats' why my intervals are a little bit easier as consistency/injury free/recovery are paramount importance to me rather than thrashing myself in an interval session(leave that 4 raceday)

This has led to constant improvement over last 3 years and will continue until race times fall off.

[Colin]

Mixie, on Jul 8 2009, 02:03 PM, said:

Totally agree but people should focus on percentage improvements rather than time although this is against human nature and am sure u have encountered this as a coach.

I know I'm not going to knock another 8 minutes of my 10k time but if I could get another 3% improvement(1 minute) over a year through consistent training/injury free then I would be stoked.

OK, let's put HillsAths' example then in % terms for you.

A 30 min runner already training close to max (as you would expect) trying to gain 30sec (1.7%) would find it harder than a 60min newbie trying to gain 1min (1.7%) by additional training.

ps ...no need to say you 'agree' at the start of each post...and then go about disagreeing.

cheers

[Mixie]

Colin, on Jul 8 2009, 01:29 AM, said:

OK, let's put HillsAths' example then in % terms for you.

A 30 min runner already training close to max (as you would expect) trying to gain 30sec (1.7%) would find it harder than a 60min newbie trying to gain 1min (1.7%) by additional training.

ps ...no need to say you 'agree' at the start of each post...and then go about disagreeing.

cheers

Colin we are saying the same thing-
I have improved 20% over last 3 years due to specific training,as I'm now reaching closer to my potential due to specific training my incremental gains will be less until eventually they will taper off-thats' why I said will be stoked if get 3% improvement this year.

Think your trying to pick an argument when theres' not 1 to be had

[greyhoundracer]

My goals are very similar

Last year I was a low 42min 10k runner and I played alot of touch football so I classed myself as pretty fit.

I've been running since December 08 and gave up touch footy to run and my plan was to be down around 35mins by the end of the year. So far I'm @ 37.38 for 10k and also run a 90.03 1/2 Marathon

Now I'm not sure if I will get there by years end, but nearly every time I run 10k its a PB and I've chopped approx 5mins off since December.

I do suspect that the next few minutes I want to chop of my 10k times will be much harder than the 5mins I have done so far  

Good luck all the best with it mate!

[hockeyrunner]

cheers to everyone for their replies.

have just sat down after completing a 15km slow run at 4.50m/km pace. was actually really comfortable and enjoyable.
last night i wore my garmin at hockey training and for a few hill 500m and 110m runs and distance covered for the night was 11km.
probably going to mainly just freshen up with only training tomorrow night and then fri rest day.
we have an imortant match saturday where ill probably cover bit ore then 10km and then hopefully go on another long run on sunday 15km+.

next sunday is a10km race which ive entered in, so what do you think my week should consist of? bareing in mind ive got training thurs and a match on saturday. im not terribly worried about the time i run because building for later in the year, but at same time im only 2 weeks back into running after 5 week holiday/soreness break and dont want to overdo it and become injured.

appreciate everyones advice and stories.

[deadcat]

whether or not you can improve from 40m to 35m prolly depends on a few factors.. how hard and consistently you train, how fit you are at the moment, if you stay injury free, and conditions on race day..
It took me about 3 years to get from 42mins to 35:30 training primarily for marathon, but i am pretty sure that i could not have improved from 40 to 35 in 4 months..
If i wanted to find a specific plan for training I'd go to Jack Daniels "Daniels Training Formula" which i can't reccomend enough..

[Easy Tiger]

Oporto, on Jul 8 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Even the fat bloke who normally plays in goal?

Took me ages to get under 35 but I reckon most of it is mental.  Largely agree with Minxie, you need at least 3 quality sessions a week, one long slow run (at least 90 mins), one set of long intervals off short rests at 3:35 per/km pace (say 8 x 1.5km off 90 seconds rest) and some speed work with longer rests (400's work best for me).

Good luck.

Oporto,
The guy who ran 76min for the half was our goalkeeper, Rob "Gapsy" Whitmill. I said any 'good' hockey player, the good goalies are amazing athletes. They are as fast as the strikers and often as fit as the midfielders, having the speed/reflexes to make saves whilst having the concentration to be able to arrange the defence for 70min takes a superb athlete.

Hockeyrun,
During the season the team should always take priority over individual goals. Fit in whatever running you can without being fatigued for matches or even worse risking missing matches due to injury. It's pretty risky to be running alot of km's on top of the hockey on a hard and unforgiving surface

[Davo83]

Yeah mate i reckon you can definately do it in that timeframe, especially if you are running those times off no specific training. It shows you have some natural talent.

I finished up AFL last year and have focused my attention on different distances and have noticed fast improvements, for example - I dropped my 1000m time by 30 seconds in around 3 months time.
I put my fast improvements mainly down to losing some of the footy bulk and fat from years of gym work, so if you are carrying excess weight then IMHO thats where you will get those minutes from plus the accompanying training aswell.
Specificity is the key aswell as staying injury free.
Good luck


cheers

Dave

[Bull]

Hi Hockeyrunner,

We share a similar goal, however I haven't set a timeframe and my training is and always has been more focused around the marathon.

I found it pretty easy to get down from 41:30 to 37:20 in the space of six months or so. The gains came a little more slowly after that. Overall it took me just over 2 years to get down to 35:25. I haven't raced over 10 km's now in about 5 months but am hoping that sub 35 isn't too far off.

Personally I prefer to set smaller incremental goals. Ticking them off and resetting new ones keeps me continually motivated.

The thing I like most about running is not knowing how fast I can go. It get's easier but it also gets harder. The real test is how hard are you prepared to work at it when things get tough. Overcoming injury & illness, constantly putting in the miles week after week, backing up for the 20 miler every weekend, training in wind, rain, cold and heat etc. I've already achieved more than I ever thought possible, but I love this sport not because it's easy but because it is hard and it does require a dogged determination to keep perservering. If I never run a second quicker over any distance, I can put my hand on my heart and say I gave it my all. I'm more proud of that than times.

I really hope you achieve your goal and more. You've clearly got talent. I'm more interested though in where you can get in 3 years and not 4 months. I'd encourage you to set training goals (around your hockey) and let the racing times take care of themselves.

Best wishes
Bull

[Oporto]

Easy Tiger, on Jul 8 2009, 06:49 PM, said:

Oporto,
The guy who ran 76min for the half was our goalkeeper, Rob "Gapsy" Whitmill. I said any 'good' hockey player, the good goalies are amazing athletes. They are as fast as the strikers and often as fit as the midfielders, having the speed/reflexes to make saves whilst having the concentration to be able to arrange the defence for 70min takes a superb athlete.

Aw, c'mon - we all know there's only one reason why anyone plays in goal.  Were you a goalie?

[Long Arms]

Colin, on Jul 7 2009, 05:57 AM, said:

I'd say you can do it given that you are in your twenties and already running those times off hockey training.
Easy Tiger has specific hockey/running experience with similar improvement but I used to play soccer and ran pretty fast straight away (around 40min 10km) and made rapid improvement once I did a bit of real running training...3 months from >3hrs to 2:43.

When I played about three games of futsal back in late 90's/early 00's I also ran well off very little weekly mileage.

Keep us posted on how you go...I am always interested in this sort of thing.

cheers

Another Hockey to Running convert was Benita Johnson- (30min 10km/2.22 marathon not bad for a chick!). Another Cool Running Hockey/Running convert is Rabs- Robert Lansdown- a 33min 10km man who I reckon can go at least 32.00 on the next 2-3 years. There must be some others as well????

[Easy Tiger]

I was a striker.
No way would i have the balls to stand between blood thirsty strikers and glory.

Should add that Nova Peris was an Olympic Gold Medallist in hockey before winning Comm Games Gold i think in the 200m. I was always pretty close to last in any endurance tests amongst elite hockey players, i'm certain almost all the top guys i played with would destroy me in any distance race if they wanted to. Also, at the time i was consistently running 10.8's, i was getting beaten in 40m tests by a few of the guys, one guy in particular, Mark Harris used to spot me 3m in 40m sprints and get me every time, blistering!!!

Edited by Easy Tiger, 08 July 2009 - 08:09 PM.

[Colin]

hockeyrunner, on Jul 8 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

last night i wore my garmin at hockey training and for a few hill 500m and 110m runs and distance covered for the night was 11km......

....

we have an imortant match saturday where ill probably cover bit ore then 10km a

I think this is what Mixie may have forgotten is done in serious training. The recent Confed Cup Soccer had players doing around 10km/game.

...plus Mixie is 41 and improved himself from 44min to 35/36 (or on profile 39min)...either way a  greater improvement than  the OP swho is in his 20's , wants...which is the biggest factor that would indicate if he already does 40min, then 35 would be easy with running training.

So not sure why Mixie had his doubts - in his first post...but then I can't figure out whether he is agreeing or disagreeing ...hard to tell from the way he posts.

cheers

[Mixie]

Colin, on Jul 8 2009, 09:57 AM, said:

I think this is what Mixie may have forgotten is done in serious training. The recent Confed Cup Soccer had players doing around 10km/game.

...plus Mixie is 41 and improved himself from 44min to 35/36 (or on profile 39min)...either way a  greater improvement than  the OP swho is in his 20's , wants...which is the biggest factor that would indicate if he already does 40min, then 35 would be easy with running training.

So not sure why Mixie had his doubts - in his first post...but then I can't figure out whether he is agreeing or disagreeing ...hard to tell from the way he posts.

cheers

Originial post was guy wanted to improve from 40 mins to 35 mins in 4 months whilst continuing to play hockey.

Of course he could acheive 35 mins maybe even better if he concentrated on running,thats' the point of all my posts so far-just feel trying to acheive this by upping intensity length of his run training combine with hockey or soccer leads greater chance injury/lack of recovery etc and not acheiving his goals.

Colin,u are missing the point-Confed footballers will run over 10k in matches but most of it is short speed bursts over 20-30 yards which is different to 10k constant pace over longer time-its' 2 different types of training

The people who have posted here have improved dramatically when they have given up their other sport to concentrate on running with exception to easy Tiger who was able to combine both sports successfully.

Thats' my final say on the matter

[Colin]

Mixie, on Jul 9 2009, 05:55 AM, said:

Originial post was guy wanted to improve from 40 mins to 35 mins in 4 months whilst continuing to play hockey.
......///....
The people who have posted here have improved dramatically when they have given up their other sport to concentrate on running with exception to easy Tiger who was able to combine both sports successfully.

Original post has this:

hockeyrunner, on Jul 7 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

where should i be aiming to get too with my training load in order to push for a 35 min run in 4 months time? if anyone can draw up a rough weekly plan i would much appreciate it. also plan on running some half marathons over the summer.

The guy was asking for running training advice...not hockey advice....you are putting your own slant on it for some reason.

I also continued to play soccer whilst improving and in fact I mentioned Futsal...where the bursts of speed are even less (court about 25m)

As for short bursts of 20- 100m....if you do that continuously, its called speed work...100m/200m was part of my program and that of many others.

cheers

[glenda]

I played hockey before taking up running, right half. Unfortunately I am not in the same ball park as Benita, bit I did manage 2 sub 36 min 10km'ers in 2007 at the age of 43. I often think of going back to hockey but there are not enough hours in my day at present.

[Long Arms]

Easy Tiger, on Jul 8 2009, 03:59 AM, said:

I was a striker.
No way would i have the balls to stand between blood thirsty strikers and glory.

Should add that Nova Peris was an Olympic Gold Medallist in hockey before winning Comm Games Gold i think in the 200m. I was always pretty close to last in any endurance tests amongst elite hockey players, i'm certain almost all the top guys i played with would destroy me in any distance race if they wanted to. Also, at the time i was consistently running 10.8's, i was getting beaten in 40m tests by a few of the guys, one guy in particular, Mark Harris used to spot me 3m in 40m sprints and get me every time, blistering!!!

Tiger you are making local NSW hockey players out to be superhuman specimens- in the league of Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Jeremy Roff or Tiger Woods.
I reckon your recent 1.15 for the half is better than anything Ric Charlsworth has done on the hockey field.

[Oporto]

Long Arms, on Jul 9 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

Tiger you are making local NSW hockey players out to be superhuman specimens- in the league of Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Jeremy Roff or Tiger Woods.
I reckon your recent 1.15 for the half is better than anything Ric Charlsworth has done on the hockey field.

Agree.  Let's face it, hockey is a minority sport.  The sort of sport you take up when you can't quite cop it at footie.  It reminds me of ultra running.

Well done on a 1:15 though.

[MrD]

Before I took up running (seriously), I was a pennent level squash player, so was reasonalby fit already (albeit a lot heavier). Took me just on 2 years to get my 10K time to under 35 minutes. Would think squash and hockey have a lot in common (explosiveness, hand-eye, anaerobic conditioning?)

I still play but not at the level I once did, I regard it as a key ingredient in my training routine.

greyhoundracer, on Jul 8 2009, 02:53 PM, said:

I've been running since December 08 and gave up touch footy to run and my plan was to be down around 35mins by the end of the year. So far I'm @ 37.38 for 10k and also run a 90.03 1/2 Marathon

Why did you give up touch football exactly greyhound? I would have thought running and touch footy would compliment each other? Was it a time issue? Just curious

Edited by MrD, 09 July 2009 - 05:42 PM.

[greyhoundracer]

MrD, on Jul 9 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

Why did you give up touch football exactly greyhound? I would have thought running and touch footy would compliment each other? Was it a time issue? Just curious

A bit of the decision was time, but I was playing touch a lot (5 sessions a week, training and games) and I also needed a change as I'd be playing it that many nights a week for 15yrs.
Once I decided I needed a change of sports, I decided to give running a go instead.
I just recently in the last few weeks got talked into playing touch again, but now its just one night a week at a social level (still love the team aspect I guess)
My touch footy has helped as its given me speed, which is a good thing, I just need to be able to back that up now KM after KM after KM.
At the moment, I'm really only good for about 4/5km at under 3.30per KM pace, after that I get hit by a sniper, but I'm working on it and I guess after reading some posts above, it does take time, so I'll just keep plugging away.

[MrD]

greyhoundracer, on Jul 10 2009, 08:24 AM, said:

A bit of the decision was time, but I was playing touch a lot (5 sessions a week, training and games) and I also needed a change as I'd be playing it that many nights a week for 15yrs.
Once I decided I needed a change of sports, I decided to give running a go instead.
I just recently in the last few weeks got talked into playing touch again, but now its just one night a week at a social level (still love the team aspect I guess)
My touch footy has helped as its given me speed, which is a good thing, I just need to be able to back that up now KM after KM after KM.
At the moment, I'm really only good for about 4/5km at under 3.30per KM pace, after that I get hit by a sniper, but I'm working on it and I guess after reading some posts above, it does take time, so I'll just keep plugging away.

Cool mate, that sounds very similar to my decision to stop playing competitive squash too as I was training probably as much (although not for 15y)! Obviously that amount of training leaves little time, energy or recovery to do running as well.

It's good that you are still playing socially, it would be awesome cross training for distance running (probably better than hockey and squash) hence my original query.

Good luck with it mate!
You obviously have the speed, the endurance will no doubt come and when it does you will be a force to be reckoned with...but then again if 5km is your distance then you could just focus on that, lots of road runs around are around 5km plus you have the track in the Summer too.

Edited by MrD, 10 July 2009 - 12:23 PM.

[Rabbits]

I've been away for a few days and have missed most of this banter but it's interesting reading as a hockey player turned runner as Long Arms mentioned.

I reckon the jump from 40 min to 35min is definitely possible but might be tough in the short timeframe. I've always found time improvements happen incrementally and it's hard to make bigger jumps physically and mentally. Often when I finish a race I look at times of people ahead of me and can't work out how they could possibly go so fast but with a bit of time the body adapts and it becomes possible. My 10km times have gone from 39:16 ('06 day after hockey and not much running), to 37:42 (April '07), 35:20 (Sept '07), and then a couple in 33mins last year. Haven't been able to improve it this year but will use Long Arms prediction as motivation to push on!

I only ever did a few 5-10km runs a week during my hockey days. I was still pretty fit and could run all day during a game but used to pull up terribly on a Sunday which meant a long run was usually out of the question on a Sunday which is the main reason I decided I couldn't combine them. I didn't feel as though I could play hockey and do a decent number of km's and stay injury free. If you can back up every Sunday for a long run of at least 15km, hopefully 20km+ then I think the training you're doing should be pretty reasonable for 10km racing.

I haven't got any stats or facts to back it but I agree with Easy Tiger that good hockey players often have a pretty good pedigree for running. It doesn't require amazing physical strength or size so skills and fitness becomes more important. I played midfield so did a lot of 90% running up and down the field rather than sprinting like the tiger.

Long Arms, on Jul 9 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

I reckon your recent 1.15 for the half is better than anything Ric Charlsworth has done on the hockey field.

Dunno about that... always dangerous territory comparing sports so I'll leave it!   I'm guessing it's a bit tounge in cheek but not sure!

Should also add that Tiger's 1:15 in GC Half is still a top run! Well done mate. I had plans of trying to stick with you in the C2S but not so sure based on my current training!

Edited by Rabbits, 10 July 2009 - 04:34 PM.

[hockeyrunner]

thanks everyone for their responses. just wanted to give an update. i had a few days off training last week to freshen up and properly manage a couple of niggles. feeling 100% again and tonight ran 5km on treadmill in 17:45. i know its hard to gauge with treadmill runs but i would be interested to know if people think i may be on track.
long run is 15km in around an hour so need to build that up, but this sunday im entering a short duathlon to mix my training up a little and keep the motivation going.
am considering entering the burnie 10 so with my previously mentioned training times, what do people expect me to reach by oct?

[Bull]

hockeyrunner, on Jul 23 2009, 03:59 AM, said:

thanks everyone for their responses. just wanted to give an update. i had a few days off training last week to freshen up and properly manage a couple of niggles. feeling 100% again and tonight ran 5km on treadmill in 17:45. i know its hard to gauge with treadmill runs but i would be interested to know if people think i may be on track.
long run is 15km in around an hour so need to build that up, but this sunday im entering a short duathlon to mix my training up a little and keep the motivation going.
am considering entering the burnie 10 so with my previously mentioned training times, what do people expect me to reach by oct?

Hi Hockeyrunner,

The good news is that you seem to be improving quickly, as expected really. I'd estimate that you need to be sub 17:00 pace (for 5 km) to be on target for your goal of sub 35:00. Some might say that the treadmill is not running, although I don't subscribe to this theory. So long as you use an incline of 1-2%, I think it is a fair guage. I can always race quicker than what I do in training on the treadmill anyway.

It's a little hard to estimate what you will reach by October. So many variables. I'll have a stab at 36:15. Hopefully that will provide you with motivation to prove me wrong and go sub 35:00.

I'm also thinking you could go a little further with the long run. Perhaps 1.5 to 2.0 hours. I'm sure you will benefit from the aerobic conditioning. I don't think you need to be doing it at 4:00 km pace though. You could do it as a progression run and finish strongly, perhaps every other week. Just an idea. Even for 10 km's, I think the long run is probably the most important run of the week. Sure throw in the speed sessions, but it will really assist with endurance. 5 km's feels like an all out sprint for me. 10 km's requires greater strength and endurance. Personally I think you'll get a lot out increasing the duration of the long run.

Cheers
Bull

[rohan]

treadmills vary a fair bit as to how 'fast' they are.

some years back I used different types of treadmills in the same gym.
16km/h was hugely different between two different models.
one I could fairly comfortably do it on, the other only for a very short time.
same theoretical speed.

[Rabbits]

hockeyrunner, on Jul 23 2009, 03:59 AM, said:

thanks everyone for their responses. just wanted to give an update. i had a few days off training last week to freshen up and properly manage a couple of niggles. feeling 100% again and tonight ran 5km on treadmill in 17:45. i know its hard to gauge with treadmill runs but i would be interested to know if people think i may be on track.
long run is 15km in around an hour so need to build that up, but this sunday im entering a short duathlon to mix my training up a little and keep the motivation going.
am considering entering the burnie 10 so with my previously mentioned training times, what do people expect me to reach by oct?

G'day hockeyrunner,

Almost impossible to predict a time off this information but it's good to get an update. 15km in an hour is a good pace but for mine you'd be better off dropping the pace back a bit and doing 1.5 hrs+ for the long run. A lot of people would say run slower for your long run but I reckon the best guide is to run whatever you're comfortable with for 1.5-2 hrs without absolutely smashing yourself. If you can manage your current long run pace for 1.5 hrs then you're definitlely on track for 35 mins.

I've never run on a treadmill but even on the grass I'd reckon you should run 17min for 5km to be sure of being in 35 min shape.

I know it's very simple but my basic answer is that if you up the k's, esp on the long run, you'll be a decent chance. Speedwork is important but your hockey will take care of most of that so more easy runs will get you there.

Have fun,

Rabbits

[glenda]

I always work on the premise double the 5km and add a minute. My best 5km when i ran 35.48 was 17.05, so didn;t quite work out...i reckon you will do it by October, that is still a fair way away...don't die wondering anyway...go for it.

[bruncle]

I would be very impressed if you managed it. 17:45/5k is a helluva lot better than a 40:00 10k though, so maybe you're closer than you think. Keep us posted - I'd definitely follow a blog if you wrote one.

[Rabbits]

Hi Hockeyrunner.

How's the training going? It would be great to know if you've been able to stick at it. I read in your last post you were thinking about targetting the Burnie Ten so let us know if that's still a goer!

All the best.

Rabbits

[hockeyrunner]

gday rabbits.

training hit a snag when i did a paul chapman in hockey finals series. strained my hammie early in the match and played through the terrible pain. consequently, had 4 weeks on sidelines and changed my target to point to pinnacle, cadbury half and hobart 10km on feb 7.
this week i ran a 17.30 and 17.25 5km on treadmill, 2 x 12.5km easy runs at 4.40-4.35 km/h pace with heart rate just below 160 and two hilly bike rides of about 40km each.
am aiming for around 1hr 55 for p2p and 1hr 23 for cadburys hopefully culminating in breaking the 35 min barrier at hobart, although wont be a fast course.
what would your advice be?

[EnduranceMachine]

hockeyrunner, on Oct 21 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

gday rabbits.

training hit a snag when i did a paul chapman in hockey finals series. strained my hammie early in the match and played through the terrible pain. consequently, had 4 weeks on sidelines and changed my target to point to pinnacle, cadbury half and hobart 10km on feb 7.
this week i ran a 17.30 and 17.25 5km on treadmill, 2 x 12.5km easy runs at 4.40-4.35 km/h pace with heart rate just below 160 and two hilly bike rides of about 40km each.
am aiming for around 1hr 55 for p2p and 1hr 23 for cadburys hopefully culminating in breaking the 35 min barrier at hobart, although wont be a fast course.
what would your advice be?

Remember That The Mill Times Are Difeerent Your Need A Little Incline For The Effort Level To Be Equal

[Hawthorn]

as a hockey player/runnner, this is a cracking thread. just thought i would say that.

[johnno]

hockeyrunner, how'd you go in the hobart races?

[Yoyos]

Hawthorn, on Mar 9 2010, 10:23 PM, said:

as a hockey player/runnner, this is a cracking thread. just thought i would say that.

Agreed!  I played hockey for 10 years, but have now switched to soccer.  I'm currently ramping up my running with the aim of doing a ~3.30 marathon in September, so it's interesting to get the input from more experienced runners on the usefulness of games/training.  I always knew that it wasn't optimal, but I figure that if I can still get in my long run and a 10+km run each week, I'll at least be able to get a 6 Foot Track qualifying time - which is my ultimate aim anyway.

[The Sloth]

Yoyos, A bit of a difference between 35min 10k and a 3:30 marathon, so my advice here is targeted towards the marathon.

When I first started running I was playing Football (Soccer) as well. Assuming you train once per week and play once per week, you have two lengthy fartlek sessions already in your running diary, so probably no need for any additional speedwork. On top of training/playing make sure you get out there at least another 3-4 times per week. Key runs will be the long run and (IMO) marathon pace running ~8-15k. Every other run only need to be medium pace. Do that over a reasonable build up prior to September and you should be on target for a good time. Don't forget to try a race or two during your training to see how well you are travelling.

I found the two sports to be complimentary while I was doing them simultaneously. The pace, strength and general fitness of Soccer assisted me running and the endurance from running was a great asset on the pitch. In the end I stopped playing Soccer because I couldn't devote the time with Family + work + running, etc.