23 replies to this topic

[Wine trail runner]

Will Cockerell, author of 'The 50 Greatest Marathon Races of All Time'  was interviewed on Marathon Talk where he spoke about his Top 5 marathons:
Marathon Talk interview

His nominations are:

5. de Castella - 1982 Brisbane Commonwealth Games
4. Zatopek - 1952 Helsinki Olympics
3. Bikila - 1960 Rome Olympics
2. Salazar - 1982 Boston
1. Khannouchi - 2002 London

[crowpower]

I can only go by what I've seen on video:

1. Joan Benoit - 1984 LA Olympic Games (simply said "no" to conventional tactics)
2. Rob de Castella - 1982 Brisbane Commonwealth Games (superbly judged pacing)
3. Carlos Lopes - 1984 LA Olympic Games (at that age!!)
4. Lisa Martin - 1990 Auckland Commonwealth Games (had it sewn up after 200 metres, still ran for a fast time)
5. Hwang Young-cho - 1992 Barcelona Olympic Games (pure guts on that very tough course)

Then there's the men's winner of 2008 Beijing in 2:06. Where to put him?

[Jimboy]

I think that Deek's Rotterdam win over Salazar, Lopes and some other fast marathoners would have to rate a mention,not sure of the year,but I remember watching Deek outsprint Lopes over the last Km or so.Great race throughout.

[KevinCassidy]

Jimboy, on Nov 18 2010, 11:06 PM, said:

I think that Deek's Rotterdam win over Salazar, Lopes and some other fast marathoners would have to rate a mention,not sure of the year,but I remember watching Deek outsprint Lopes over the last Km or so.Great race throughout.

1983

[frankenstein]

I don't have enough knowledge to add to the list, but I listened to that podcast last week and I can highly recommend the interview - it was very informative.

Edited by frankenstein, 19 November 2010 - 06:42 PM.

[Reddog]

Yes to everything mentioned but would like to add in the "solo efforts" Steve Jones WR at Chicago in 1984 2.08.05 ! Still have the video I think, a real no fear type of runner

[crowpower]

You could make a case for Deek having the best five on his own:

2:09:18 - 1982 Commonwealth Games - to Aussies this was the same as the Olympics
2:08:18 - 1981 Fukuoka - broke Derek Clayton's 12 year old record (unfortunately not recognised at the time)
2:10:03 - 1983 Helsinki World Championships - proved he was #1
2:08:39 - 1983 Rotterdam - the classic showdown with Salazar
2:07:51 - 1986 Boston - the most famous of marathons

Then there's Derek Clayton's two World Best times in 1967, 2:09:36.4 at Fukuoka and 1969, 2:08:33.6 at Antwerp. A decade ahead of his time.

Agree with Steve Jones in 1984 Chicago, and his 1985 Chicago first half was even faster but he couldn't finish it off with a World Best but still ran 2:07:13, probably still the fastest by someone who hit the wall.

[Shahanga]

I thought Salazar didn't run in Rotterdam '83 - but is that my memory playing tricks on me? (update- that was the '83 world championships where Salazar dodged Deek- my mistake)
Anyway that was a great win but I preferred the '82 Com games - that was an incredible race with great discipline to run down Ikaanga and of course much earlier Gidemas Shahanga, (who had just won the 10 000 with what was a truly memorable performance and (clearly) had a lasting impression on me)

Edited by Shahanga, 21 November 2010 - 10:10 AM.

[Michael S]

I'd have to include Deeks Rotterdam in 83, the way he wore down the worlds best one by one and to outsprint Lopes over the last 400 was magic (especially when the commentators were writing Deek off because his 10,000m times were a fair bit slower than Lopes')

From memory the race was billed a showdown with Salazar but he dropped off the pack with about 5k left....???

[Reddog]

Michael S, on Nov 25 2010, 01:03 PM, said:

I'd have to include Deeks Rotterdam in 83, the way he wore down the worlds best one by one and to outsprint Lopes over the last 400 was magic (especially when the commentators were writing Deek off because his 10,000m times were a fair bit slower than Lopes')

From memory the race was billed a showdown with Salazar but he dropped off the pack with about 5k left....???

From fading memory, the last mile was 4.30 and last 400 in 60 seconds, as you say he just kept winding the pace up dropping all the others bar Lopes

[DrJH]

I thought Wanjiru's win in Beijing, where he absolutely took apart an Olympic field in tough conditions, is pretty hard to beat.

[Easy Tiger]

DrJH, on Nov 25 2010, 08:19 PM, said:

I thought Wanjiru's win in Beijing, where he absolutely took apart an Olympic field in tough conditions, is pretty hard to beat.

That is true, he is unbelievable. Not as big a prize, but this race comes close-

[Uncle Dave]

crowpower, on Nov 19 2010, 05:00 PM, said:

Agree with Steve Jones in 1984 Chicago, and his 1985 Chicago first half was even faster but he couldn't finish it off with a World Best but still ran 2:07:13, probably still the fastest by someone who hit the wall.

Geb went through the 30k in 1.27.49 before a pretty big blowup in Berlin, 2009, where he still ran 2:06:08.

Despite the well-documented criticism of Geb's supposed ducking of competition in the mara, apart from Wilson Kipsang who did 2:04:57 in Frankfurt this year, no one other than Geb has been under 2:05 and won by more than a minute - all other sub 2:05 ers have had the benefit of being pushed all the way....as well as pacers I would say, though I'm not sure of all of them.

Geb may have had pacers to 30k and beyond, but there's no hiding in those last few k's, and to do them on your own is something special. For mine, a race against the clock can be just as rivetting as a race against a rival. With his 3 fastest maras all sub 2:05, Geb's done exactly that.

[esjay]

anyone got any video links to any of the races, I know it's a long shot as the files would be huge to upload but just thought i'd enquire..

Edited by esjay, 25 November 2010 - 10:22 PM.

[DontStop]

Top 5 Marathons, or Top 5 Marathon Performances of all time?

Pretty different in my book.

Best marathons that I've seen start-to-finish:

'82 Boston, Salazar vs Beardsley. America's two best going toe-to-toe for 42k in the heat, neither giving an inch, and racing so hard, neither was ever the same again.

'82 Comm Games, when Deek ran down Ikanga. Both at the top of their game at this time, a terrific race to watch unfold.


Best marathon performances:

Paula Radcliffe's 2.15 in 2003 London.

Wanjiru's 2.06 at Beijing.

Clayton's 2.08 when 2.12 was elite.

Steve Jones's frontrunning efforts at Chicago in '84 and '85.

Joan Benoit's '84 Olympic win.


I reckon there are many more great individual efforts in the marathon, than there are great RACES. It's the nature of the beast, I guess.

Edited by DontStop, 26 November 2010 - 09:06 AM.

[tdm]

esjay, on Nov 25 2010, 10:22 PM, said:

anyone got any video links to any of the races, I know it's a long shot as the files would be huge to upload but just thought i'd enquire..

Check out  this link for a bunch of realmedia files of various runners and races including some great photos:
http://www.juanjosem...mx/running.html
Also this page:
http://www.runnerstr...com/page/videos

Edited by tdm, 26 November 2010 - 10:19 AM.

[cakeboy]

1) For me Wanjuri is a clear no.1. To run  2:06 in those conditions is hard to top
2 and 3) Saw both Deeks runs on TV, and they were right up there.
4) Joan Benoit and her annihilation of the best in the world in LA.....fortune favours the brave..and the talented...
5) Lastly I'll put in Zatopek in Helsinki...not many out there have bagged olympic gold in their debut marathon

Hard to leave out Radcliffe destroying the WR and Gebrasalassie with his WR.....and there's Kerryn Mcann in Melbourne....not world class times but what a race....and even someone like Bordin who they left down the road in Barcelona and who came home to win gold, and Baldini getting past De Lima after the priest got him in Athens 04...both those last two runs were so hilly and hot I was feeling sick watching on TV...felt even sicker for De Lima but Baldini was going to get him, tackle or no tackle.

Maybe we need a poll to sort it out?


edit: forgot about Clayton's run....m,aybe my no. 6...

Edited by cakeboy, 26 November 2010 - 01:04 PM.

[MoreCowBell]

DrJH, on Nov 25 2010, 07:19 PM, said:

I thought Wanjiru's win in Beijing, where he absolutely took apart an Olympic field in tough conditions, is pretty hard to beat.

Great call.  I also thought Constantina Dita Tomescu's win in the women's race was equally as impressive.  38 years of age, decided to take the race on just before halfway, broke away & ran the 2nd half on her own.

[coachrollie]

DrJH, on Nov 25 2010, 08:19 PM, said:

I thought Wanjiru's win in Beijing, where he absolutely took apart an Olympic field in tough conditions, is pretty hard to beat.

Easy Tiger, on Nov 25 2010, 08:23 PM, said:

That is true, he is unbelievable. Not as big a prize, but this race comes close-

Great non nostalgic pick. The greatest marathon racer is alive, present and fronting up right now. Almost all his races/wins are attritional stuff. He takes no prisoners. The Chicago race was maybe not as much glory but he was injured and not fully prepared, yet he committed, fronted up, stuck it out, played cat and mouse then went for it.
I wonder if you can tell I am a fan too?

[Easy Tiger]

coachrollie, on Nov 26 2010, 05:38 PM, said:

Great non nostalgic pick. The greatest marathon racer is alive, present and fronting up right now. Almost all his races/wins are attritional stuff. He takes no prisoners. The Chicago race was maybe not as much glory but he was injured and not fully prepared, yet he committed, fronted up, stuck it out, played cat and mouse then went for it.
I wonder if you can tell I am a fan too?

Wanjiru:-
Debut 2007 Fukuoka 1st 2.06.39 course record
2008 London 2nd 2.05.24
2008 Beijing Olympics 1st 2.06.32
2009 London 1st 2.05.10
2009 Chicago 1st 2.05.41
2010 Chicago 1st 2.06.23

Doesn't seem to have the profile he deserves yet, surely he is in the same class as Bolt and Bekele. Wanjiru's Beijing performance was so awesome, i think Merga's brilliant 4th could be one of the greatest performances ever as well...has there ever been a better 4th?

[coachrollie]

Easy Tiger my fellow Wanjiru fanatic let me correct and add to your post.

Easy Tiger, on Nov 26 2010, 06:22 PM, said:

Wanjiru:-
Debut 2007 Fukuoka 1st 2.06.39 course record and Japanese all comers record
2008 London 2nd 2.05.24
2008 Beijing Olympics 1st 2.06.32 Olympic Record,course record and Chinese all comers record
2009 London 1st 2.05.10 Course record and UK al comers record
2009 Chicago 1st 2.05.41 Course record and USA all comers record
2010 Chicago 1st 2.06.23

7 marathon starts, 4 different courses 5 wins (inc all 4 course records), one 2nd and one DNF due to pre race knee injury

5,000m 13:12 @ age 17 in 2005
10,000m 26:41 World Junior Record @ 18 in 2005
He hasn't run either distance in 'anger' again if at all(since 2005)
Half Marathon 59:16 @ age 18 in 2005, World Record and still World Junior Record
Half Marathon 58:33 @ age 21 in 2007, current World Record
20km, 55:31, unofficial world best en route to above

Easy Tiger, on Nov 26 2010, 06:22 PM, said:

Doesn't seem to have the profile he deserves yet, surely he is in the same class as Bolt and Bekele. Wanjiru's Beijing performance was so awesome, i think Merga's brilliant 4th could be one of the greatest performances ever as well...has there ever been a better 4th?

Based on above, wonder why not?

Edited by coachrollie, 27 November 2010 - 06:50 AM.

[flat feet]

Female marathon at Barcalona an unrelenting match race in the later stages until on one was left standing.

Emil Zatopek the triple crown marathon unique and possibly never to be repeated

Lopes in 1984 running beside 2nd and 3rd for sometime before winning

Benoit in 1984 to have the imagination is an astonishing thing to do  

Wanjiru the winner representing that pack of runners who raced from the start to the finish in Beijing leaving one man standing - would have been fun to see him race Bekele over 10 k however that is now unlikely

[crowpower]

cakeboy said:

and even someone like Bordin who they left down the road in Barcelona and who came home to win gold

True enough, that happened, but in Seoul not Barcelona where Bordin was a DNF.

coachrollie referred to "non nostalgic picks". Unfortunately that's all I have as I lost interest in the running scene for 10 years from 1995 and no longer "keep up" on the elite like I used to.

[Wine trail runner]

Rod Dixon's win in the 1983 New York Marathon is one of the great marathon finishes.  Here is a link to an interview with him where he talks about the race.
NY 1983