110 replies to this topic

[MissZ]

There were several mentions of this in the Ironman Australia 2008 thread, so I thought it would be good to start a seperate thread.

A recent episode of the Ironman Talk podcast mentioned the concept of doing your own iron-distance race. There is also this website devoted to the idea.

Its not some thing I will be doing in the near future, but I think its a great idea and definitely do-able. What do others think? Woud anyone seriously be keen to organise it?

[Plazbot]

How would you do the fatass? What I mean is make it easy, hard or something known. I have had a course in mind up here in Qld on the gold coast for the last year or so. It is HARD on the bike though with the run being mostly flat as a tack.

Swim Lake Hugh Muntz (freshwater enclosed, no sharks), 4 complete laps
Bike Tamborine, Canungra, Oreiley's, Beechmont, Springbrook and back
Run Lake Hugh South east to Miami, north to northern turn of Gold Coast marathon course and back.

It would be fully awesome.


(cross posting)

[Jogger]

yes it has been thought of but not actioned:

From here:

Quote

Iron Ass Ultra-distance offroad triathlon Starting near Penrith, finishing at Katoomba. 4km swim, 180km mountain bike, 42km trail run. Form a relay team or take the ultimate challenge.

It would be harder to do a road ironman, an offroad one sounds more do-able (?)

[rodthehornet]

If you finish your bike leg at Woodford, the bush run from Woodford rail station to Katoomba is about 42-43km.  

Alternative is to finish the bike leg at Jenolan and come back along 6FT.

[miners]

I'm liking the Gold Coast option so far - or for those not up to completing the whole IM at once, stage the swim/bike on Saturday and combine it with the GC marathon weekend for the Sunday's run?

[rohan]

traffic and  lights etc. are the big problem..

BUT in melbourne there is a beautiful new road with no traffic...  EASTLINK... not opened yet. laps of that... but it'd have to be acted on fast.

[Will]

What about the M7 Bike path?

[MissZ]

An all off-road version would be much harder - 180 is a loooong way on an mtb. It could be good to combine an on-road ride with an off-road run.
I was thinking Canberra would be a good spot. You could swim in the lake (don't laugh) and not have too many safety issues, then there are  several options for a quiet, little traffic 90k out and back ride on road, then you could run twice around the Lake on bike paths, or do a hilly off-road run.

Edited by MissZ, 13 April 2008 - 11:45 AM.

[Mister G]

Someone's already thought of the offroad Ironman.

From recent experience organising events in the Blue Mountains I don't think it's really feasible up here- but you could perhaps incorporate the bike leg around the state forests of the Oberon area/western Wollemi (bike leg would want to be pretty flat!) and run back into the Blue Mountains...

Somewhere like the state forests of the Central Coast or Southern Highlands would seem more feasible off the top of my head, with no serious thought invested.

Might think about it more in the next couple of days.

[Will]

Or we could start at Manly, swim Manly-shelley beach twice, ride to west head, do a couple of laps of west head/akuna bay (very few cars and we can set up an aid station at the car park at beginning of West Head road), and do the marathon on west head road as well. I have done a lot of long rides and brick sessions there, and it is pretty good.

[Mister G]

Yeah- others know better than I (eg JoggerKev) but I think what Will describes is very similar to the old Triple M Ironman held in Sydney in the early 90s- but in reverse.

Edited by Mister G, 14 April 2008 - 11:26 AM.

[Jogger]

yeah - swim akuna bay, 3.5-4 laps of west head then run akuna bay-manly.

[B+]

Enclosed traffic free ironman.

Penrith lakes scheme.

3.8km swim
36 5km laps on the bike = 180km
8.5 5km laps on the run = 42.2km

There are toilets and easy to put out aid station spots. car parking etc...........hold on a minute this sounds like one of my training sessions .........mmmm just a thought.

Or SWIM Penrith lakes 3.8km
From there out to richmond and up Bells line of roads to Lithgow then back down the Great western Highway back to the lakes. close as to 180km
Run can go out through penrith, Glenbrook etc and back to the lakes.

No one said it was suppossed to be easy.........

Train safe

[Mister G]

 B+, on Apr 14 2008, 01:09 PM, said:

Or SWIM Penrith lakes 3.8km
From there out to richmond and up Bells line of roads to Lithgow then back down the Great western Highway back to the lakes. close as to 180km

I hear a lot of people say they ride up the Bell Road during IM training. Can't believe they do it. No verge, blind corners, mad locals taking every corner at 105. Very scenic trip, but seems incredibly risky.

[B+]

Come on Mr G, add a bit of exicement to the day, take on a truckie, give the finger to a bunch of bikers, all while riding up a hill of 9% for 30minutes.

[Will]

 B+, on Apr 13 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

Enclosed traffic free ironman.

Penrith lakes scheme.

3.8km swim
36 5km laps on the bike = 180km
8.5 5km laps on the run = 42.2km

There are toilets and easy to put out aid station spots. car parking etc...........hold on a minute this sounds like one of my training sessions .........mmmm just a thought.

Oh my god, this would be a real mental toughness test...What is the risk of DNFing due to boredom??

[miners]

 Will, on Apr 14 2008, 01:00 PM, said:

Oh my god, this would be a real mental toughness test...What is the risk of DNFing due to boredom??

what, even with the rest of us out there with you?

I can see some inadvertent 5km TTs coming up every 4th or 5th lap when another competitor creeps up in thunder alley or merges with the field out of pit lane

[Will]

 miners, on Apr 13 2008, 12:19 PM, said:

what, even with the rest of us out there with you?

I can see some inadvertent 5km TTs coming up every 4th or 5th lap when another competitor creeps up in thunder alley or merges with the field out of pit lane

Yep that's true. We might need some lapscorers or some other way not to lose count of the number of laps... I still would prefer a west head/akuna version as it is a bit more scenic.

And what time of the year do you think would be the best? December or January would be good as it leaves you time to recover for Port. But not possible for people doing Busso

[Spud]

 Will, on Apr 14 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

And what time of the year do you think would be the best? December or January would be good as it leaves you time to recover for Port. But not possible for people doing Busso

Oh please not the end of the year, that's already chockers for the ultra folk round here.  

Winter or Spring in October?
Akuna Bay does sound more interesting than laps at Nepean too.

[SpartaJen]

Somewhere like the Regatta Centre at Penrith would be great as it would give those of us who aren't up for the full distance a chance to play too  

[Will]

If we go for the Akuna Bay version, I have played a bit with google earth

Swim:

Shelly Beach to Manly
to Shelly Beach to Manly
to Shelly Beach to Manly

is 3.8km

See here: http://www.gmap-pedo....com/?r=1790382

I am not sure if it is safe to swim in Akuna Bay, there are plenty of boats.


Bike:

Manly to the intersection of Mccarrs creek road and West Head Road is 27km. We could easily make it 30km.
See here: http://www.gmap-pedo....com/?r=1790393

And then a lap of West head and a lap of Akuna Bay is just about 40km
See here: http://www.gmap-pedo....com/?r=1790399


We then have different options.
If we want to start and finish the bike in Manly, we have to do 3 laps of Akuna/West Head and come back to Manly. That's 180km (30, 40, 40, 40, 30). We could then do the 42km with a couple of laps of North Head or just head north for 21km and back (same course as Hamburglar fatass).

We could also do: ride from Manly, 3 laps Akuna/West Head, One lap west Head which would also give us 180km. And then we run the marathon on West Head road (1 lap 1/2). But it might be complicated, especially since we don't know what time we will be finishing and the national park closes at sunset.

What do you think?

[Mango]

In the spirit of the original ironmen this event should also be a non-wetsuit swim and a prize awarded for the least blinged up triathlete  

Edited by Mango, 14 April 2008 - 06:42 PM.

[B+]

Ok boys and girls in all seriousness there  are some real things you need to look at before you all get to carried away with this.

1. Time of year, due to water temperature mainly.
2. Location of swim, safety reasons mainly.
3. Lifesavers in the water, for any struggling swimmers mainly.
4. Bike course on public roads, a lot of athletes riding at their race pace and weekend drivers don't mix very well.
5. Acess to Spots where start and finish take place, due to the difference in finish times of 10hrs - 17hrs+ mainly.

I'm up for the day no problem, but I can say from personal experience trying to arrange the safe finish and logistics of 12 or more athletes of varying ability levels and times to do this type of things is hazardous.

Also what is the liability factor for those who arrange the day if anybody gets hurt - either a willing particpant or an unwilling member of the public? - This applies mainly to the bike leg.

I know the fatass runs work well but the swim bike portions add significant issues to the day that runnnig alone does not.

Train safe

[Will]

B+,

while I agree with you when you say that we should choose a course that is the most suited for safety issues, I think we have to treat this exactly the same was as a normal fatass event. It has to be clear that this is not an "organised" event, by this I mean that everyone participating has to know that they have to rely only on themselves, and assume that that there will be no aid on the course.

If we start organising, then the issues of liability come up. I believe the rule number one is that everyone is responsible for their own safety, and as such it has to be regarded exactly the same as a group training session.

What do you think?

[Mister G]

If you make it on-road, the Royal National Park might well be an even better venue than Kuringai. Swim at Bundeena, ride on the roads within the NP (shuttling back and forth between Bundeena, Otford, possibly Audley and Waterfall), finish with a run of a double out and back on the smooth dirt of Lady Carrington Drive. Sounds pretty appealing to me.

Make it the first weekend of February. 5 weeks before Six Foot Track, a month after Bogong.

Edited by Mister G, 14 April 2008 - 09:37 PM.

[Hamburglar]

I am just loving all this talk and I am getting excited at the thought!

After thinking about it, the Penrith regatta centre doesn't sound too bad. Yes it might be a bit monotonous but it would be nice a calm water with plenty of room in the swim and flat and fast on that hotmix. Rather than 36 x 5k loop, could we do 12 x the Nepean Triathlon 15k loop? And how much would it cost to use the regatta centre?

Regarding the Manly/West Head idea, the swim sounds good - the south end of Manly usually has pretty small waves and is mostly protected, so good conditions. The only other options are either Manly Dam or Narrabeen lakes but Shelley is probably as good as any. The Manly lifesavers would keep an eyeout for us if we asked them I would reckon.

The traffic lights on the ride are a concern, however I can only count 12 sets on the way out as well as on the way back. Most of them are pretty good and you don't often get caught. Another idea for the bike is do three laps of Church Point/West Head/Akuna Bay with a loop of Terry Hills thrown in each time. This way there is two shops to stop on each lap (Church Point and Terry Hills). I could order a hamburger and a potato scallop from my favourite shop at Terry Hills and pick it up on the way back through   It would be a tough ride - lots of hills up there!

It makes sence for the run to be around Manly rather than West Head. You could have T2 in my garage to keep the bikes safe. I could also put together a scenic 10k or 21k loop around manly no problem.

In true fat ass style, at either venue, a number of shorter varitaions would be available. It all sounds good to me. I agree with B+, the time of year is important. Even with wetsuits, October would be pretty chilly, but still doable. Maybe we could do it on the same weekend as Port as a poor mans alternative?

I think if we were serious about it, Penrith would be more preferable however my preference is Manly/West Head. I would consider it just as a long training day with mates and not too serious i.e. not throw a tantrum if I got caught at a red light, bust my gut for a good time etc.

A fat ass Ironman seems atractive to me and somehow more doable tha the real thing. I was always going to be undertrained if I did an ironman so doing a fat ass one seems much more down my alley. For the first one at least  

[B+]

Will, I am only raising the issue of liability, is that due to being on public roads on bikes the chances of an incident involving the public is much higher than if you are running.

I can check with the Penrith Lakes authority on cost if we were to consider this option.

Other than that the other venues suggested so far all sound good too. Hamburglars courses sound nice and challenging and thats what its all about.

Train safe

[fatfawnpug]

There is always Lake Macquarie. There is plenty of parks around the lake to host it from.  The cycle course could be 2 x 'Loop The Lake' (see www.loopthelake.org.au).

And well the run course would depend on which park you hosted it from.

As for the legal liability issue,  it couldn't be a race but it could be an organised training event and all road rules apply. Isn't that the theory behind Fat Ass anyway.  It doesn't matter if you have to stop at an intersection to give way does it?

[Will]

 Mister G, on Apr 13 2008, 08:36 PM, said:

If you make it on-road, the Royal National Park might well be an even better venue than Kuringai. Swim at Bundeena, ride on the roads within the NP (shuttling back and forth between Bundeena, Otford, possibly Audley and Waterfall), finish with a run of a double out and back on the smooth dirt of Lady Carrington Drive. Sounds pretty appealing to me.

Make it the first weekend of February. 5 weeks before Six Foot Track, a month after Bogong.

Mister G,

I have done quite a lot of training in the RNP in the beginning of my IM preparation. While it would be a very good/scenic/challenging venue, I find that the roads are extremely dangerous on the week ends. There are motorbikes and cars driving recklessly and at very high speed. This is why I now only do my long rides in the kuringai chase.

For a date, I like October. I reckon no water temp issue with a wetsuit, good training for those who want to do GNW/C2K and also plenty of time to recover for the tri season. I think a lot of people who would do this would want to do Port, so better to have it at completely different dates.

Burglar, I like the idea of your garage as T2!

[superflake]

You could do a few laps of Bondi Beach as the swim. Plenty of people around even at 6am if anyone gets in trouble.

Then cycle from there uphill, I know a bit of a pain, to Centennial Park and do laps.
Only problem being that the park is restricted to 30kph and you do get a fair bit of bike traffic. Plus you have 3.8k loops. But an aid station is easy to do for it, if the ranger doesn't get annoyed.

Then you could run on the walk/running path which is 3.7k laps. Same scenario as the bike, it gets a bit monotonous. And has a lot of foot/dog traffic, but is easy on the aid and has two easily reached toilet blocks plus three water fountains besides any aid station.

Will, you can't seriously want to swim through the heads? That swim is scary even for the lifesavers/ocean swimmers that have dome that. Any swell and you are history.

When you get tired of the bike just get off at whatever distance and do the run, which you can shorten as well.

[Will]

 superflake, on Apr 14 2008, 09:06 AM, said:

You could do a few laps of Bondi Beach as the swim. Plenty of people around even at 6am if anyone gets in trouble.

Then cycle from there uphill, I know a bit of a pain, to Centennial Park and do laps.
Only problem being that the park is restricted to 30kph and you do get a fair bit of bike traffic. Plus you have 3.8k loops. But an aid station is easy to do for it, if the ranger doesn't get annoyed.

Then you could run on the walk/running path which is 3.7k laps. Same scenario as the bike, it gets a bit monotonous. And has a lot of foot/dog traffic, but is easy on the aid and has two easily reached toilet blocks plus three water fountains besides any aid station.

Will, you can't seriously want to swim through the heads? That swim is scary even for the lifesavers/ocean swimmers that have dome that. Any swell and you are history.

When you get tired of the bike just get off at whatever distance and do the run, which you can shorten as well.

Do you think I'm loco or something? Swim through the heads?
i only mentioned swimming from Manly to Shelly beach, which is a very calm and easy swim.

You have got to be kiddin with Centennial Park, this is where I have been doing my weekly morning rides, and after 5 laps, you go crazy with boredom. And you are right when you say it is very very congested on the week ends.

Edited by Will, 15 April 2008 - 12:17 PM.

[kb]

A few of us were tossing around this idea at breakfast this morning after our ride.

We were having a laugh over a possible name for the event.  Given the expensive nature of "official" ironman races we thought that "TightAss Ironman" was a winner .

wt

Edited by wildthing, 15 April 2008 - 10:41 AM.

[B+]

lets just all head up to Port for a weekend and do the entire distance on that course.

Rumour has it that they even have painted markings on the road so you know where to go....

Start it as a tightass finish it as a soreass and after refueling go home as a fatass.

Train safe

[superflake]

 Will, on Apr 15 2008, 10:25 AM, said:

Do you think I'm loco or something? Swim through the heads?
i only mentioned swimming from Manly to Shelly beach, which is a very calm and easy swim.

You have got to be kiddin with Centennial Park, this is where I have been doing my weekly morning rides, and after 5 laps, you go crazy with boredom. And you are right when you say it is very very congested on the week ends.

Sorry Will. I confused Manly Beach with Manly Cove. I lived in Manly for years and my parents still live above Shelley beach.

I was just thinking of Centennial Park as a relatively traffic free site. Boring yes to do so many laps, but it has the facilities there to do the course.

[rohan]

 B+, on Apr 15 2008, 02:10 AM, said:

Start it as a tightass finish it as a soreass and after refueling go home as a fatass.

way better slogan than anything IMG ever come up with...

put it on the finishers towel...

[Aunty K]

 Will, on Apr 15 2008, 10:25 AM, said:

i only mentioned swimming from Manly to Shelly beach, which is a very calm and easy swim.

Yep, I used to like this swim also, until the other week when a small bunch of us realised we were swimming with sharks   i'm not joking! Ok, so they were small sharks.... but they are still SHARKS!!

The Regatta Centre would have to get my vote   for such an event,  afterall, it will feel like a training day with B+ in charge   .

Cheers,
K

[Will]

 Aunty K, on Apr 14 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

Yep, I used to like this swim also, until the other week when a small bunch of us realised we were swimming with sharks   i'm not joking! Ok, so they were small sharks.... but they are still SHARKS!!

The Regatta Centre would have to get my vote for such an event,  afterall, it will feel like a training day with B+ in charge   .

Cheers,
K

Yes, there are some sharks there, but there are either bronze whalers or dusky whaler sharks.



No need to worry about them. Just see them as a motivation to swim faster...

Edited by Will, 15 April 2008 - 03:05 PM.

[littleblackpug]

What about at Forster?

The course is already marked, ok so the swim needs to be on high tide for it not to be yucky, but it would be low in traffic, easy to set up aid stations, and a great, cheap weekend away. Plus we can party at the RSL like old times!!!

[ingrid]

I vote Lake Macquarie, there is already an open water swim, from Coal Point to Sixteen footers at Belmont which is 3.9 km. The Loop the lake bike course is there, and people could easily opt to do 1 lap ie: half ironass.
   That being said, Forster sounds like a great weekend away too! With great beaches to recover on...

[miners]

ah hell - while we're debating alternative sites, may as well throw this one into the mix ---> no traffic problems here

[blair]

 miners, on Apr 15 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

ah hell - while we're debating alternative sites, may as well throw this one into the mix ---> no traffic problems here

Would that be a wetsuit swim?

[MissZ]

 wildthing, on Apr 15 2008, 10:38 AM, said:

we thought that "TightAss Ironman" was a winner .

Thats gold!  

[miners]

 balri, on Apr 15 2008, 06:24 PM, said:

Would that be a wetsuit swim?

would more than qualify as a tight-ass as well if your average cold water swim is anything to go by

[Brick]

 ingrid, on Apr 15 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

I vote Lake Macquarie, there is already an open water swim, from Coal Point to Sixteen footers at Belmont which is 3.9 km. The Loop the lake bike course is there, and people could easily opt to do 1 lap ie: half ironass.
   That being said, Forster sounds like a great weekend away too! With great beaches to recover on...

Lake Mac does sound good nice camp site I think.
This might even get me back into Ironmans I could afford this one.   

Brick

[Will]

"Start it as a tightass finish it as a soreass and after refueling go home as a fatass"
I love it!

Regarding Forster, apart from the part out to Coomba park, I have found the roads very very dangerous, with no shoulders and lots of speeding traffic.

Who would actually be in for this? And what dates? I am keen to set a date quickly and would be happy to get it off the ground for this year.

[B+]

Lake Macquarie gets my vote.

Train safe

[Muzman]

 Will, on Apr 16 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

Regarding Forster, apart from the part out to Coomba park, I have found the roads very very dangerous, with no shoulders and lots of speeding traffic.

Ya got that right!

[shotis]

Tightarse indeed!    For $650 you get 2000 volunteers on course to pamper your every desire ( except bike chains apparently), full road closures, medical assistance, towels, shirts, medals, some yankee bloke on the mic and a cannon to start.  Start putting your pennies away and get to Port 09.

If for nothing else but the safety of the competitiors an uncontrolled irno distance race could be a disaster.

[Spud]

One more vote for Lake Macquarie here too. Great ride around the lake.
The esplanade would be a tad busy for the run though, so we would need to look at an alternative there.

Top location though.

[Mister G]

 Spud, on Apr 16 2008, 11:25 AM, said:

One more vote for Lake Macquarie here too. Great ride around the lake.
The esplanade would be a tad busy for the run though, so we would need to look at an alternative there.

Top location though.

Plenty of good trail running options in the area.