30 replies to this topic

[Isthisnametaken]

Not sure is anyone can provide any specific advice but I am about to start training for my first Marathon and I would like to cover all the bases.

I am 47 and have completed 5 HM in the last 18 months or so. My PB is 01:41:03. I have another HM in 2 weeks and I am hoping to break the 1:40 mark. I have upped my running to follow the advanced Pat Carroll program for the GC. The problem is though is that various times in the day, I feel tired. I know that running is tiring but I thought I would have more energy, bounce, etc, etc the fitter I got.

Typical week for me:

Currently running about 50k per week
Get to bed about 10pm and get up just before 5am to commute to work via the train
Diet:

Breakfast is usually 5 weet bix with milk. During the weekends it would probably be toast with jam or muesli

Lunch during the week is usually a garden salad - Lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, carrot, beetroot, avocado made at home

Snacks during the day is fruit. Apple, mandarin, rockmelon/watermelon with yoghurt

Dinner might be pasta with meat, eat a fair bit of chicken and veggies

Bad stuff would include maybe a few beers here and there but rarely more than a couple unless it is a night out.

During the day I have periods where I feel really tired, not physically though, just wish I could have a nana nap.

Any advice on the diet that I might need to change? I went to a natropath a few years ago and she made up some liquid for me that tasted terrible and some vitamins. Did not make any difference that I noticed. Have talked to my doctor and he said the MOST common complaint he gets is people being tired. I went for some tests and all came back fine.

Just to clarify, I am fine running, I don't fall asleep at my desk but if I could some extra energy and not feel sapped in parts of the day, that would be good.

Cheers,

John

[walker1st]

so are you full of beans during the night ?

If it is PC program which makes you tired, why are you not complaining to him ?

by the way such a diet as you posted is not supposed to make you tired ?

[Isthisnametaken]

Thanks Walker1st, that is a big help. Sorry if it comes across that I am "complaining" about the program or anything else as that was not the intention but please any feedback you provide is always appreciated, if not always helpful.

Edited by Isthisnametaken, 11 November 2011 - 08:50 AM.

[Tony123]

If you are feeling sleepy tired doesnt that mean you are not getting enough sleep.  I couldnt survive on 7 hrs sleep, especially if training for a marathon.  Can you get to bed a bit earlier and get more sleep?

[walker1st]

Isthisnametaken, on 11 November 2011 - 08:50 AM, said:

Thanks Walker1st, that is a big help. Sorry if it comes across that I am "complaining" about the program or anything else as that was not the intention but please any feedback you provide is always appreciated, if not always helpful.

perhaps not the best word complaining, but program needs to be complet traing and nutrition, so I would ask for money back if not working

and my question was genuine, you look surprised that you are tired and you list that diet regime, so I better ask before making any assumption.

what I see is sugar gluten dairy fructose and likely hidden fructants and preservatives

and that is the day starter.

[UnfitnessFanatic]

Drink more coffee!  Well thats what I do.  I am consistantly pretty tired during the day, as a matter of fact I am pretty tired now.  Must be time for the next caffeine hit.

[Isthisnametaken]

The reason that I put the food that I eat is so that people can see it and then maybe advise where I am going wrong. I have seen may times on here where people post a question with very little detail and the first response is "we need more detail".

So I guess looking at the food I eat and the comment is no wonder I am tired....that is where I might need some advice. No need to assume anything as I have pretty much listed a typical week with the exception of I sometimes snack on nuts when watching a bit of TV of a night.

The amount of sleep is able to be done but does not always go to plan. I guess that is just an excuse like - it is to cold, hot, wet, dry to run today so I won't do it.

The PC program does seem to be working for me as I can feel that my endurance is much better than before. I guess I will find out in 2 weeks time.

Cheers,

John

[serena]

Hi John,

First of all I think you need to get to bed earlier if you're getting up that early, or at least peg three or four early nights a week, like in bed at nine asleep by half past (I am often in bed before my teenagers). Do all those things like no chocolate before bed etc that you've heard before.

Secondly, I would lose the weetbix and instead make yourself an omelette or scrambled eggs. I think some more protein might help with your energy levels. If you're in a hurry you could whizz up a banana, milk, yoghurt, vanilla protein powder (try Natures Own from supermarket), a raw egg and spinach for a Shrek Smoothie that will do the trick.

Lastly, has Pat got you doing any weight bearing exercise? This will help too. If not an easy way to do that is throw in a couple of vinyasa yoga classes a week if you can find the time.

Hope some of this helps, it's all stuff I have found beneficial myself, and I'm in my forties too.

[Digger]

A distance runners goes to bed tired and wakes up tired, but if you are not falling asleep at you desk, then you are probably normal.

If you do fall asleep at your desk(Like me), there maybe other issues.

A blood test wouldn't hurt, as it can tell a Doctor lots about you.

[Isthisnametaken]

Thanks Serena. As far as the PC program goes, I guess I may have misled some...I am NOT on the paid program, I have just downloaded the advanced HM traning program from the GC website.

Getting to bed earlier....that will be the plan from next week. With me getting up so early I normally have breakfast once I get to work (7:15) as I don't really have time in the morning. Don't want to get up at 4:30am. That is just rude.

I guess I can make up the smoothie the night before and drink it on the train or before I leave the house? Raw egg and spinach? Sounds....um....interesting....

There is a gym at work that I am a member of and when I am not running I go and do some weights, push-ups, sit ups, maybe cycle, rowing machine, etc, etc. Just try and do something each day.

All good,

John

[KiwiShazza]

I'm guessing if you are going to bed at 10pm you are probably not getting to sleep straight away so are getting less than 7hours sleep per night.  Maybe try going to bed at 9.30pm.

I'm no expert, but looking at your diet you are seriously lacking protein which is important for building muscle.  The only protein in the morning is from the milk on your weetbix and can't see any other protein until your dinner at night.  Try adding some to your lunch at least.  I like shaved roast turkey from the deli section of Woollies as read somewhere that it has something extra good for you and tastes good.  And what about a yoghurt for morning or afternoon tea.  Or low fat cheese on crackers, or a handful of nuts.  I love Sandra Cabots Guilt Free Hazelnut bars.

[Emrun]

I agree with some of the others here in relation to protein, if the diet you posted is reprenentative then it is seriously lacking in protein.

I would ditch the weet-bix and milk in favour of either a wholegrain porridge or eggs, for lunch the salad is good but it needs protein, add some grilled chicken or tinned tuna, your dinner looks good.

Steer clear of the melons, they are very high in fructose, this will spike your insulin and give you a quick boost and then a crash.  Apples are better, or berries along with some plain greek yoghurt (don't be afraid of full fat either), just don't have any yoghurt with added sugar.

I keep my energy on an even keel by steering clear of refined sugar and simple carbs, keep your insulin from spiking and you won't have any nasty crashes or energy slumps.  I am not a saint but I save the odd blow out for the evening, if you have simple carbs in the morning you won't feel full and it sets off the craving monster.

Finally, it wouldn't hurt to have a blood test to check on your Iron and B12 levels.  Don't waste money on supplements unless you know there is a deficiency to treat.

[theturtle]

My comments for what they are worth (I am far less experienced than many of the others posting):

I targetted my first two marathons this year and completed them (YAY).  Moving from training programs for a half marathon to full was hard and here was definately a tired phase I went through.I followed the GC Intermediate program off their website.Probably similar to what you are doing.

Its about letting your body adapt to the increased loading training for the longer run.

I agree with the comments above, its worth getting a blood test to check out any of these medical issues.  I concur on the protein, a couple of eggs poached on some wholegrain toast keeps me going a lot longer than cereal in the morning. Oats are good too, not the instant ones, the real deal. Seems to keep me full for longer. I would also try to get some better quality snacks in between meals, nuts seem to do the trick for me and try the "woody" fruit (apples/pears) rather than the juicy ones...they seem to last longer. Carrots are also good. Its about trying things that work and planning to have them on hand.

The big one I see is missing is red meat.  Have a think about getting onto some grass fed read meat, far better quality than feedlot/supermarket meat.  Has a lot better far composition.One or two feeds a week will make a difference....certainly my experience.

I am just back into training after a break after the Sydney Marathon moving through the 50 km to 60 km per week. I was feeling really tired and sore this week, so I dropped a mid week session and slept in. I feel so much better and had a really good long run yesterday. It makes me think sleep is really important.

I am 48 yo. and like one of the other posters find myself going to bed earler than my teenagers too.

Best wishes for your training. I hope something from this has helped.

[chops]

UnfitnessFanatic, on 11 November 2011 - 10:07 AM, said:

Drink more coffee!  Well thats what I do.  I am consistantly pretty tired during the day, as a matter of fact I am pretty tired now.  Must be time for the next caffeine hit.

Don't know if you are taking the piss with this comment, but I wholeheartedly agree with it. I did two weeks without coffee and drank tea instead, did nothing but yawn, fall asleep at every opportunity and was a complete grumpy twat. Coffee returns and all is good in the world again.

[walker1st]

chops, on 13 November 2011 - 11:16 AM, said:

Don't know if you are taking the piss with this comment, but I wholeheartedly agree with it. I did two weeks without coffee and drank tea instead, did nothing but yawn, fall asleep at every opportunity and was a complete grumpy twat. Coffee returns and all is good in the world again.

you need more than 2 weeks to detox get rid of chemical dependency a readjust body functions to more normal state

ages ago I did go cold turkey ob black tea and it took at least 6 weeks, during that period I learned how to sleep with open eyes at work.

[chops]

walker1st, on 13 November 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:

you need more than 2 weeks to detox get rid of chemical dependency a readjust body functions to more normal state

ages ago I did go cold turkey ob black tea and it took at least 6 weeks, during that period I learned how to sleep with open eyes at work.

I wasn't doing it to get rid of chemical dependency, tight arses at work bought builders blend coffee, I tried one cup and swore to drink tea until it was replaced for better stuff.

[HarryHighpants]

Do you snore? If yes, you may wish to check your sleep quality with a home diagnostic test. Must declare an interest, I work for a company in Sydney that provides this service. Hope you crack the 100mins in your HM!

Isthisnametaken, on 11 November 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Not sure is anyone can provide any specific advice but I am about to start training for my first Marathon and I would like to cover all the bases.

I am 47 and have completed 5 HM in the last 18 months or so. My PB is 01:41:03. I have another HM in 2 weeks and I am hoping to break the 1:40 mark. I have upped my running to follow the advanced Pat Carroll program for the GC. The problem is though is that various times in the day, I feel tired. I know that running is tiring but I thought I would have more energy, bounce, etc, etc the fitter I got.

Typical week for me:

Currently running about 50k per week
Get to bed about 10pm and get up just before 5am to commute to work via the train
Diet:

Breakfast is usually 5 weet bix with milk. During the weekends it would probably be toast with jam or muesli

Lunch during the week is usually a garden salad - Lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onion, carrot, beetroot, avocado made at home

Snacks during the day is fruit. Apple, mandarin, rockmelon/watermelon with yoghurt

Dinner might be pasta with meat, eat a fair bit of chicken and veggies

Bad stuff would include maybe a few beers here and there but rarely more than a couple unless it is a night out.

During the day I have periods where I feel really tired, not physically though, just wish I could have a nana nap.

Any advice on the diet that I might need to change? I went to a natropath a few years ago and she made up some liquid for me that tasted terrible and some vitamins. Did not make any difference that I noticed. Have talked to my doctor and he said the MOST common complaint he gets is people being tired. I went for some tests and all came back fine.

Just to clarify, I am fine running, I don't fall asleep at my desk but if I could some extra energy and not feel sapped in parts of the day, that would be good.

Cheers,

John

[southy]

AS an athlete , I need 9 hours a sleep a night. When I don't get it I am sleepy, grumpy, and after a few days get very low energy & depressed. So the first thing I would recommend is more sleep.
The next thing I note about your diet is that you don't seem to be eating enough carbs or proteins, especially at lunch. If I don't eat plenty of carbs early in the day then I just don't have the energy to train. Try adding some complex carbs to your diet, such as whole grain bread rolls, etc. I am a small female & I don't think there is any way I could train on a diet as low in carbs as yours seems to be.

[katess]

I'm with Southy on the carbs. I started running to lose some weight, so was also trying to cut back on carbs, but then got kind of hooked on the running itself and was finding myself tired all the time. Have added more carbs, especially for breakfast and lunch, and feeling much better, even with increased k's. Weight seems to be staying off too...

[Curreo]

My first thought was that perhaps you are not eating enough. Are you losing weight? For that amount of exercise it seems low but depends on your weight i guess.

My diet is nearly exactly the same as yours except for lunch i will have a wrap with salad and meat and i feel tired during the day but my goal at the moment is to lose weight. I am 74kg now aiming for 71-72kg. I know if I am tired and a little hungry I am right where i need to be.

I would definitely increase protein as it looks too low. I think you need about 1g per kg of body weight? maybe more. Low GI carbs are good as well.

[Rico]

I thought getting 7 full hours sleep each night and not falling asleep at work were things to aspire to, not to worry about.

[TopEndChick]

Agree with the protein comments and wonder if you are actually getting enough calories throughout the day. Maybe keep a diary for a week and count them... I use calorieking.com.au
Along with the iron, consider your B12 levels - maybe adding some salmon or tuna (fresh or canned) may help you along. Or a berocca.
Your diet also seems very low in sodium so maybe have the doctor check these levels....
Good luck

[undercover brother]

freelea, on 19 November 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

6. Drink enough water that your urine is clear and at least 10 times a day.

rubbish.
if anyone takes this advice and ends up in hospital from hyponatraemia i will gladly appear at your court case (for the prosecution) free of charge.
and what happened to all the soft porn you posted earlier?

Edited by undercover brother, 19 November 2011 - 08:49 PM.

[walker1st]

Lea, please, kenyans are eating animal products, meat and milk and they eat much more than 10% of fat and proteins as well

kenyans practically do not eat any fruits.

[Davo]

I thought freelea's advice was spot on in every respect.
UCB, surely there's a difference between being adequately hydrated and having hyponatraemia. Any time my urine's yellow I get stuck into the water and I've never been anywhere near having hyponatraemia.

[Bellthorpe]

You piss 10 times a day?

That needs medical attention.

[Arn]

I'd say that, like almost everything, theres a balance that needs to be found. When starting running I constantly had yellow pee and noticed some bad side effects and had to force myself to drink more water. I'm doing that now, carrying a water bottle everywhere, and significantly reduced issues. Surely the advice being given is simply to "assess your fluid intake and adjust as required".

On the topic of being sleepy during the day, might I suggest to look at your emotional state as well. If work/home life are stressing you out then your sleep quality will probably reduce but you will also likely have an aversion to that stressful environment that may manifest as tiredness. Ain't no pill for that (except maybe more caffeine )

[Davo]

Bellthorpe, on 22 November 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

You piss 10 times a day?

Bit of a jump in logic, BT, if you read the posts carefully.
When I lived in Brisbane I sweated a lot and only urinated occasionally. But I invite you to come to beautiful Tasmania where it's a lot cooler, and even after a 10k run sometimes I'm not sweating. My bodily fluids have got to find a way out somehow....
I'm sure even UCB would agree that we urinate more in cooler conditions.

[Bellthorpe]

You're quite right Davo. Clearly she meant 'drink' 10 times a day, not 'piss' 10 times a day.

My apologies.

[TashyTuffNut]

Are you eating enough protein? The body can't store protein and also can't absorb more than approximately 30g per serve. It looks like you have a protein rich dinner, but perhaps you could add some tofu, beans, egg or chicken to your lunch salad.

I also agree with some of the other posts that it looks like you're probably not eating enough during the day to keep your energy levels high. Perhaps try consuming some more energy dense foods during the day (substitute your apple for a banana or some fresh dates. Dried fruit is also a good alternative as it is higher in iron and energy)

I wouldn't start adding caffeine to your diet (I'm a caffeine junky myself and it's an awful cycle - when there's a high, there's always gotta be a crash - one or two cups a day is okay, but anything more and it starts to be detrimental to your health). Perhaps add some energy rich juices or sustagen - something that will fuel your body without causing it to later crash.

Oh one other thing I learned from personal experience - I wasn't a big drinker but I had to cut it out completely because just one glass of wine can affect your white blood cell count which can affect your energy levels.

[TashyTuffNut]

Oh and you need 1-2g of protein per kilo of body mass. As I said above, your body can't absorb more than 30g in a meal (and it also makes for a pretty heavy meal for a runner) so I make sure I eat protein every 2-3 hours. If I have fruit, I include a piece of cheese or yoghurt or a handfull of nuts. It's much more efficient for the body to keep refuelling small amounts every few hours rather than trying to cram all your nutritional needs into one meal. Protein is the body's key need for recovery - a stronger body = a faster body. All these comments I keep reading about more than 10% protein is bad are ridiculous. You want a body that's frail and subject to injury and doesn't know how to repair itself, then follow that advice. But if you want to create a strong, lean machine - eat your protein!