226 replies to this topic

[FatboyCsaba]

I surfed on in to the Yahoo  7 Banzai running website and noticed the advertisements for Jim Beam and Johhny Walker in the corner. Not in your face, but subtle, almost indiscernible.

Ads for booze on a fitness website? Dunno..... seems a bit odd. Are there any running athletes that fuel up on scotch during the week? 'Cos in Pro football and cricket it seems to be the norm.

Edited by FatboyCsaba, 22 December 2010 - 09:12 PM.

[Rico]

My two favourite things

[FatboyCsaba]

Rico, on Dec 22 2010, 09:15 PM, said:

My two favourite things

Only over the silly season     

Edited by FatboyCsaba, 22 December 2010 - 09:20 PM.

[undercover brother]

perhaps instead of sponsoring sport they could chip away at the $36 billion alcohol abuse costs australian taxpayers each year.

[BEN-HUR]

FatboyCsaba, on Dec 22 2010, 10:11 PM, said:

'Cos in Pro football and cricket it seems to be the norm.

"Pro football" & "cricket" are just mere games... not real sports. Having said that, there shouldn't be any alcohol associated with these activities either as it may influence younger (more impressionable/immature) people of pre-drinking age... which then carries over into adulthood.

Alcohol is a class 1 carcinogen & should not have any association with real sports like athletics/running. Frankly, alcohol should be banned altogether! No doubt some may choose to take issue with the above comments, however, it is only my personal opinion on the topic... based on sound research.

[brewer]

BEN-HUR, on Dec 23 2010, 01:36 AM, said:

.. Frankly, alcohol should be banned altogether!

Worked so well in the US in the 1920s.

[Bellthorpe]

BEN-HUR, on Dec 23 2010, 12:36 AM, said:

Alcohol is a class 1 carcinogen & should not have any association with real sports like athletics/running. Frankly, alcohol should be banned altogether! No doubt some may choose to take issue with the above comments, however, it is only my personal opinion on the topic... based on sound research.

Hormone replacement therapy is a Class 1 carcinogen and should be banned.

Solar radiation is a Class 1 carcinogen and should be banned.

X-rays are a Class 1 carcinogen and should be banned.

Motor vehicles emit Class 1 carcinogens and should be banned.

We have too much personal control in our lives. Governments should take over more and more aspects of our daily lives to ensure that we live in a soul-less, sterile safe environment.

[MF]

Bellthorpe, on Dec 23 2010, 06:24 AM, said:

We have too much personal control in our lives. Governments should take over more and more aspects of our daily lives to ensure that we live in a soul-less, sterile safe environment.

Yep, just like Nth Korea, just without the funny little man singing "I'm so ronery!"

If anyne from Penfolds, Coopers or Glenmorangie wish to sponsor a modest runner, look me up.

[undercover brother]

Bellthorpe, on Dec 23 2010, 06:24 AM, said:

Hormone replacement therapy is a Class 1 carcinogen and should be banned.
Solar radiation is a Class 1 carcinogen and should be banned.
X-rays are a Class 1 carcinogen and should be banned.
Motor vehicles emit Class 1 carcinogens and should be banned.

HRT, the sun, xrays and motor vehicles all serve a purpose.
alcohol does not.
governments are finally realising how much alcohol costs society.

Edited by undercover brother, 23 December 2010 - 07:27 AM.

[DontStop]

brewer, on Dec 23 2010, 06:34 AM, said:

Worked so well in the US in the 1920s.

Come on...

Aside from bankrolling organised crime for a generation, turning drinkers into criminals, encouraging people to drink rotgut instead of quality booze, and having virtually no effect on long-term takeup rates...

what was the downside of prohibition?

And this whole banning drugs thing is working well too. Not only do drugs now fund an entire criminal sub-economy, if you're 15 years old, they're just as easy to get your hands on as a slab of VB.

Ban everything, I say! It's definitely been shown to work.

ps - Carlos Lopes ('84 Olympic Mara champ) loved his red wine... during hard training as well.

Edited by DontStop, 23 December 2010 - 07:32 AM.

[Ponkey]

Well if its good enough for Haile its good enough for us! Haile signs to Johnny Walker

[FakePlasticTrees]

Quite happy to get sponsorship for the annual (except this year) 10/20 fun run.

[Bellthorpe]

undercover brother, on Dec 23 2010, 07:26 AM, said:

HRT, the sun, xrays and motor vehicles all serve a purpose.
alcohol does not.

My life has no purpose. And is harmful, I'm sure it will kill me one day.

Should it be banned?

[brewer]

undercover brother, on Dec 23 2010, 08:26 AM, said:

HRT, the sun, xrays and motor vehicles  all serve a purpose.
alcohol does not.

Gets ugly people laid.

Edited by brewer, 23 December 2010 - 11:06 AM.

[FatboyCsaba]

Ponkey, on Dec 23 2010, 07:45 AM, said:

Well if its good enough for Haile its good enough for us! Haile signs to Johnny Walker

Well said, and a well pondered response.! And If I might say so, this alco floggin might just actually make me a competitive runner one day soon....

PS. Hey, alcohol is keeping you employed U C Bro.... Take it easy  

[BEN-HUR]

undercover brother, on Dec 23 2010, 08:26 AM, said:

HRT, the sun, xrays and motor vehicles all serve a purpose.
alcohol does not.
governments are finally realising how much alcohol costs society.

True.

Bellthorpe, on Dec 23 2010, 11:47 AM, said:

My life has no purpose. And is harmful, I'm sure it will kill me one day.

Should it be banned?

I'm sure your life does have purpose Bellthorpe... if you don't perceive this, then I'm sure others may. You may want to go on a quest of some sort to find this "purpose".

brewer, on Dec 23 2010, 12:03 PM, said:

Gets ugly people laid.

... which then creates further problems at the time or some time down the track.

[SoLucky]

Hey this is weird, there have been previous threads where a majority of CR respondents have expressed shock and horror at the idea of fast food merchants, McDonalds in particular, sponsoring kids’ sport.
Now there seems to be a majority opinion on this forum that sponsorship of running by grog companies  is not only acceptable, but is very welcome.

So, fast food companies aim a lot of their advertising at children and teenagers.
In turn, the grog merchants spend big dollars targeting teens and younger adults.

Of the two products, grog imposes by far the greater medical, psychological and financial burdens on the community.

Regardless of  the favourable comments about various wines, fine ales and other life enhancing elixirs, whether it comes in an old corked bottle or in a 2 litre flask, whether it is consumed in a 5 star hotel or on a dry sandy river bed, whether your companions are discussing philosophy or they are unknowingly pissing themselves.........................................or worse.
It is all just grog.
And I have to say that I don’t think that it is very smart to promote the drinking of alcohol by linking it to high level athletic performance.

[Bellthorpe]

BEN-HUR, on Dec 23 2010, 12:58 PM, said:

I'm sure your life does have purpose Bellthorpe... if you don't perceive this, then I'm sure others may. You may want to go on a quest of some sort to find this "purpose".

Nah. If I go on a quest, it will just be down to the pub ... 'cos that's where they keep the beer.

Fortunately, I 'found myself' many years ago. I looked in the mirror one morning, and there I was.

[THE KEG]

On one side we have the Wowsers and Taliban
On the other we have those with a sense of humour........
  

[redbackrun]

seeing were are on the topic of sponsorship. what irks me about sport at the moment is the big push of sports betting. i can't even watch a game of cricket, football or marbles without a sports bet ad shoved down my throat every ad break. leave the betting to the horse races. i want to enjoy sport for what it is!

[undercover brother]

THE KEG, on Dec 23 2010, 09:48 PM, said:

On one side we have the Wowsers and Taliban
On the other we have those with a sense of humour........
  

say that to someone who has been glassed in the face, the family of someone who has been killed by a drunk driver or a lady who has been beaten up by her drunk husband.
...i could mention other scenarios.
i have a sense of humour and i don't find these funny at all.
do you keg?

[bones]

undercover brother, on Dec 23 2010, 08:47 PM, said:

say that to someone who has been glassed in the face, the family of someone who has been killed by a drunk driver or a lady who has been beaten up by her drunk husband.
...i could mention other scenarios.
i have a sense of humour and i don't find these funny at all.
do you keg?

I completely agree UCB. As a society we are far too enamored with alcohol. What, is it so hard for people to enjoy themselves without get drunk? Doesn't say much for our intelligence or imagination if we feel the need to drink  to have fun. And frankly, when do sport and alcohol mix? D'you think the world's best runners put a few away before heading off for a race?  How about the cricket team? Oh, hang on, maybe that's been their problem ...
Alcohol, gambling, fast food, cigarettes - they're all part of the same problem (addiction and poor self-control/esteem) and they certainly don't belong with sport

[StillGettinThere]

bones, on Dec 23 2010, 10:58 PM, said:

I completely agree UCB. As a society we are far too enamored with alcohol. What, is it so hard for people to enjoy themselves without get drunk? Doesn't say much for our intelligence or imagination if we feel the need to drink  to have fun. And frankly, when do sport and alcohol mix? D'you think the world's best runners put a few away before heading off for a race?  How about the cricket team? Oh, hang on, maybe that's been their problem ...
Alcohol, gambling, fast food, cigarettes - they're all part of the same problem (addiction and poor self-control/esteem) and they certainly don't belong with sport

Ah yes.
Chuck religion and all cyclists are wankers into this mix and that just about sums up CR for the last six months.

Is this a boredom thing because there is minimal running happening out there?

Merry Christmas to all
Keith

[THE KEG]

So a very small minority are irresponsible and are rightly condemned . This should not prevent the vast majority from enjoying a quiet beer or wine.(  I have yet to see a wowser or Taliban with a sense of humour) I have also yet to see the wowsers and taliban sponsoring sport .

[undercover brother]

maybe you need to get out more then.
alcohol related incidents cause a huge percentage of police work especially on weekends.
and a huge percentage of emergency department presentations.

personally i see little point in the name calling (wowsers).
would you like me to refer to drinkers as wife beaters and pedestrian murderers?
on one side we have the wife beaters and pedestrian murderers...
i can come up with worse names if you like.
and would their actions be ok if they occasionally had a sense of humour?
and would they cost the taxpayer less billions?

Edited by undercover brother, 24 December 2010 - 06:29 AM.

[DrJH]

It wouldn't bother me if they banned alcohol because I never touch the stuff anyway. I'd much rather stay in control of my faculties, and not have to worry about counting drinks or getting taxied home like some little kid. But of course we're such a sensible society that no one over indulges, drink drives, beats people up, comes into cas vomiting their guts up, etc.

I feel sorry for you lot that somehow aren't complete without having to use a mind altering substance. You can dress it up any way you like - it's easy in a society where it's more acceptable to drink than not - but that's all it is.

Maybe you can have some heroin, LSD or cocaine while you're at it. Everything in moderation of course!

[bones]

THE KEG, on Dec 23 2010, 10:06 PM, said:

So a very small minority are irresponsible and are rightly condemned . This should not prevent the vast majority from enjoying a quiet beer or wine.(  I have yet to see a wowser or Taliban with a sense of humour) I have also yet to see the wowsers and taliban sponsoring sport .

The wowsers, as you call them, are also known as organisations such as Healthway (the people who bring you anti-smoking, anti-drinking messages). And yes, actually, they do sponsor sport, to a very large extent.

[Steve 'The Footman']

THE KEG, on Dec 23 2010, 09:48 PM, said:

On one side we have the Wowsers and Taliban
On the other we have those with a sense of humour........
  

There is not much point in having a sense of humour when you can not even remember it the next day.

We were approached for major sponsorship for the Brisbane Marathon from a beer company a few years ago but turned them down.  While we do not have much sponsorship, I do not believe that it was a good mix for a community participation event with children.  You do not need to be a wowser or a non-alcoholic to believe that society is better off with reduced promotion to drug taking whether or not the drug is socially acceptable or legal.

I personally find it hard to believe that Halle's sponsorship is anything to do with liking the drink and everything to do with making some money.  How many more Africans will suffer with alcohol dependance thanks to his involvement with Johhny Walker?  To keep the religious perspective going I hope he finds his 30 pieces of silver worth it.

[Bellthorpe]

Quote

You do not need to be a wowser or a non-alcoholic to believe that society is better off with reduced promotion to drug taking whether or not the drug is socially acceptable or legal

I like a drink or three, but I absolutely agree with that.

[iRonnie]

Quote

Doesn't say much for our intelligence or imagination if we feel the need to drink to have fun. And frankly, when do sport and alcohol mix? D'you think the world's best runners put a few away before heading off for a race?

From what I have heard quite few world class runners have a few beers to celebrate after a race though.  There is a big difference between alcohol abuse and alcohol- fuelled bad behaviour of men and women ( who usually have a leaning towards aggression and bad behaviour when sober anyway -not to mention cultural influences) and your average runner who indulges in a few quite ones or a few drinks to celebrate.  Most runners I know are intelligent enough and have enough imagination to have fun without alcohol and are also quite capable of drinking responsibly.



  I would hope that a lot more runners have the imagination and intelligence to see that people who have a few beers are not all stupid beer monsters who reek havoc on society.  And  I can't imagine anyone being so stupid as to equate the consumption of alcohol with world class athletic performance.   You people do really think that the average joes who have a few beers are all idiots -don't you?  You can't hide your condescension.    And you lot whinging about being called "wowsers" after your carryon elsewhere where you used the word "stupid" to define other people is hypocrisy to the max. You  invent flaws in whole groups of people to cover teh basic flaw in your arguments: flaws which often apply to only a small number of the people you are blaming/accusing/denigrating are applied to all.    

Having said all that, I don't think it a good idea for our sport to accept sponsorship from alcohol pushers.  This is because many people  come to our sport to overcome bad habits ( which alcohol abuse is in my opinion) and it may give the wrong impression about  what the main  emphasis is in the culture.   The true value of the sport of distance running is, I think, in the running, staying healthy and competing itself.   I would be against any marketing that detracts too much from that; encourages alcohol abuse; gives the impression that alcohol consumption is an accepted or necessary part of the sport for all involved;  or suggests that athletic performance can be improved through the consumption of alcoho (Duh!) l.   Ithink it would be difficult for advertisers to promote their product to runners without losing some credibilty.  We are not stupid, we can work it out out and we are quite capable of making choices without CR's various "nannies" haranging us all.

Edited by iRonnie, 24 December 2010 - 11:31 AM.

[BEN-HUR]

It's ironic when one speaks of having "a sense of humour" & yet also refers to those who have an alternative point of view on this topic to being likened to the "Taliban" - crikey... lighten up. You may also want to look into the nature of this barbaric bunch of mugs (Taliban). Just because the Taliban doesn't condone alcohol doesn't mean there should be any association... as has already been said, alcohol consumers wouldn't want to be lumped into the same boat with those who commit crime & injury via the influence of alcohol.


On a lighter note. Here is a timely community service announcement from our friends at Star Wars...



Merry Christmas... & if you must drink alcohol... drink responsibly. There is always non-alcoholic grape juice/wine – better for you to!

[johnnyboyrun]

iRonnie, on Dec 24 2010, 12:11 PM, said:

From what I have heard quite few world class runners have a few beers to celebrate after a race though.  There is a big difference between alcohol abuse and alcohol- fuelled bad behaviour of men and women ( who usually have a leaning towards aggression and bad behaviour when sober anyway -not to mention cultural influences) and your average runner who indulges in a few quite ones or a few drinks to celebrate.  Most runners I know are intelligent enough and have enough imagination to have fun without alcohol and are also quite capable of drinking responsibly.

  I would hope that a lot more runners have the imagination and intelligence to see that people who have a few beers are not all stupid beer monsters who reek havoc on society.  And  I can't imagine anyone being so stupid as to equate the consumption of alcohol with world class athletic performance.   You people do really think that the average joes who have a few beers are all idiots -don't you?  You can't hide your condescension.    

Having said all that, I don't think it a good idea for our sport to accept sponsorship from alcohol pushers.  This is because many people  come to our sport to overcome bad habits ( which alcohol abuse is in my opinion) and it may give the wrong impression about  what the main  emphasis is in the culture.   The true value of the sport of distance running is, I think, in the running, staying healthy and competing itself.   I would be against any marketing that detracts too much from that; encourages alcohol abuse or suggests that athletic performance can be improved through the consumption of alcohol.   I (Duh!) think it would be difficult for advertisers to promote their product to runners without losing some credibilty.  We are not stupid, we can work it out out and we are quite capable of making choices without CR's various "nannies" haranging us all.

All valid points...

I think that is pretty dumb on the alcohol companies part as their advertising $$$ could be better spent elsewhere
A few drinks every now and again is fine and not "unhealthy".
Not everyone who drinks abuses it
I brings $$ to our sport
Lets not become even more of a nanny state and how about letting people make a choice rather then the government who BTW are completely useless anyhow.

My 2 cents worth:)

[DrJH]

It's interesting that ingesting a mind altering substance by way of 'celebration' is so socially acceptable. I suppose the fact it is totally legal and packaged and marketed so well makes it easy. Another mind altering substance that takes less toll on society is unacceptable because you have to go to the trouble of finding a vein and injecting it (and is associated with hollow eyed junkies).

Is it possible to celebrate with a soft drink or juice? Apparently the mind altering effects of alcohol are required most of the time.

As iRonnie says:

'There is a big difference between alcohol abuse and alcohol- fuelled bad behaviour of men and women ( who usually have a leaning towards aggression and bad behaviour when sober anyway -not to mention cultural influences) and your average runner who indulges in a few quite ones or a few drinks to celebrate'.

Just remember these are the two extremes - there is a continuum between. I have no problem with the person who has one or two and can still carry on a reasonable conversation. I am a bit irritated by the friend who had to be driven home and supported as they staggered into their house (last week). I really hate the drunk driver that kills an innocent victim.

But of course we need to have these victims so that 'responsible' drinkers can have their little bit of mind alteration in our free society. I suppose you lot would be too selfish to give this up so as to stop the alcohol fueled idiots taking more innocent victims.

[johnnyboyrun]

DrJH, on Dec 24 2010, 12:43 PM, said:

It's interesting that ingesting a mind altering substance by way of 'celebration' is so socially acceptable. I suppose the fact it is totally legal and packaged and marketed so well makes it easy. Another mind altering substance that takes less toll on society is unacceptable because you have to go to the trouble of finding a vein and injecting it (and is associated with hollow eyed junkies).

Is it possible to celebrate with a soft drink or juice? Apparently the mind altering effects of alcohol are required most of the time.

As iRonnie says:

'There is a big difference between alcohol abuse and alcohol- fuelled bad behaviour of men and women ( who usually have a leaning towards aggression and bad behaviour when sober anyway -not to mention cultural influences) and your average runner who indulges in a few quite ones or a few drinks to celebrate'.

Just remember these are the two extremes - there is a continuum between. I have no problem with the person who has one or two and can still carry on a reasonable conversation. I am a bit irritated by the friend who had to be driven home and supported as they staggered into their house (last week). I really hate the drunk driver that kills an innocent victim.

But of course we need to have these victims so that 'responsible' drinkers can have their little bit of mind alteration in our free society. I suppose you lot would be too selfish to give this up so as to stop the alcohol fueled idiots taking more innocent victims.

I dont drink....

[DrJH]

I don't drink either.

In our 'nanny state' we lock up murderers. The majority find this socially unacceptable. Most of us don't indulge in a little bit of mild stabbing or strangling (although there are obviously degrees of violence, which are also punished to various degrees).

Most also find the extreme effects of alcohol unacceptable. If most drinkers (90%? 99% - I don't know the figure) decided to forgo alcohol for the greater good it could hardly be a 'nanny state'. It would be a majority decision. However, even though there are lots of non-alcoholic alternatives to nourish or hydrate I think it very unlikely that the responsible 99% would make the sacrifice.

I can only presume the mind altering effects are too good give up.

[johnnyboyrun]

DrJH, on Dec 24 2010, 01:07 PM, said:

I don't drink either.

In our 'nanny state' we lock up murderers. The majority find this socially unacceptable. Most of us don't indulge in a little bit of mild stabbing or strangling (although there are obviously degrees of violence, which are also punished to various degrees).

Most also find the extreme effects of alcohol unacceptable. If most drinkers (90%? 99% - I don't know the figure) decided to forgo alcohol for the greater good it could hardly be a 'nanny state'. It would be a majority decision. However, even though there are lots of non-alcoholic alternatives to nourish or hydrate I think it very unlikely that the responsible 99% would make the sacrifice.

I can only presume the mind altering effects are too good give up.

its a bit like killing an ant with a bomb.... Most people are ok when they drink... Those who drink to excess and hurt others should be punished accordingly...

[iRonnie]

Quote

But of course we need to have these victims so that 'responsible' drinkers can have their little bit of mind alteration in our free society. I suppose you lot would be too selfish to give this up so as to stop the alcohol fueled idiots taking more innocent victims.

It wouldn't make any difference DR. JH.

I think your comparision of  heroin and alcohol is misleading.  Alcohol ,as you say, can be consumed without serious mind alteration whereas herion is used specifically by almost everyone who uses the stuff for the express purpose of altering their minds. Also, it is more likely that a person will become addicted to heroin and suffer the long-term effects and steadfast addiction rather than a responsible  alcohol drinker.  The mind alteration of beer is not comparable to heroin.  Beer and wine have many other qualities so yes it is too good to give up. And your request that people engaging in a harmless activity give it up because of minority of miscreants will never get 99 percent support and will have to be imposed.

I am puzzled why a majority of responsible drinkers should be held responsible for the behaviours of a minority of irresponsible drunks.  That's the way certain Talban leaders think.   You know? We in the west are all decadent and are all responsible for all the ill will in the world.  Thus all westerners are the enemy. (Note: I am making a comparision of thought processes not behaviours or your beliefs. However, when govts, zand a majority of people support this thinking it can be the thin edge of the wedge. You will get more than your right to a few beers taken away. )  

The garbage on TV alters my mind more than a sixpack.

Edited by iRonnie, 24 December 2010 - 12:47 PM.

[DrJH]

But Ronnie, if you're drinking to feel good, rather than to hydrate or nourish, doesn't this mean you're drinking for the mind altering affects? If heroin came in a small dose as part of a nicely packaged beverage, would that be any different?

Alcohol causes more health problems and costs society more than heroin.

I don't know if the 'responsible drinkers' are accountable for the deeds of the complete idiots. However, you're more responsible than me who wouldn't have any problem with alcohol being banned.

[batavia]

The puritan lobby seem a touch over the top with comparisons to hard drugs, brawling and such nonsence     Surly alcohol advertising if anything would tend to attract more occasional drinkers to become interested in running rather than tend to push runners to become drunks   .  Not to mention allow more elites to make a living running.    

[FatboyCsaba]

Steve'The Footman', on Dec 24 2010, 08:30 AM, said:

There is not much point in having a sense of humour when you can not even remember it the next day.

We were approached for major sponsorship for the Brisbane Marathon from a beer company a few years ago but turned them down.

It takes a lot of conviction to knock back the brewery dollar. You are indeed a man of your principles.

Quote

I personally find it hard to believe that Halle's sponsorship is anything to do with liking the drink

It makes sound business sense to project a successful image, yes?. I dont think pictures of fat folk with a beer or a glass of scotch will get people on the bandwagon.

[Steve 'The Footman']

I think comparing heroin with alcohol is fair. The addictive potential of different drugs varies greatly between individuals however Alcohol and Tobacco are at the top of the list with Heroin.  The addictive potential of alcohol is about twice that of ecstacy, LSD and Marihuana for example.  Because some people are highly susceptible to addiction and drug abuse it takes little contact with the substance for it to become harmful for them.  It is a reasonable argument that a general reduction in consumption of addictive drugs would also result in fewer people being harmed by addiction.  However that reduction can not come about by legislation IMO.

On another thread people are showing surprise that people are gullible enough to buy a wrist band that has outrageous claims to performance enhancement.  How much more gullible are people who use products with proven damaging affects?

[DrJH]

batavia, on Dec 24 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

The puritan lobby seem a touch over the top with comparisons to hard drugs, brawling and such nonsence     Surly alcohol advertising if anything would tend to attract more occasional drinkers to become interested in running rather than tend to push runners to become drunks   .  Not to mention allow more elites to make a living running.    

I think all alcohol advertising is going to do is encourage more people to drink more alcohol! The more seemingly healthy role models (sportsmen) that are seen to be drinking the 'cooler' it is.

I don't think the Marlborough man caused an increase in the horse riding population.

It's a pity Gebreselassie saw the need to get a chunk of the alcohol dollar. Hopefully he'll put it to good use.

[hezza]

Regardless of whether individuals drink or not, the sponsorship of sport by alcohol companies, junk food companies etc sends out the wrong message to kids in particular. Whether it will go down the way of tobacco advertising, probably not.

The dilemma for some sports associations perhaps is that the alcohol/junk food is the only sponsorship offered. Do they decline if this is the only money they can get? Ethically, decline but business wise.........? Tough one.

Edited by hezza, 24 December 2010 - 01:56 PM.

[BEN-HUR]

I have just heard from C3PO that our fury inebriated friend in the above video refused the help from his friend, got into his starship & flew into an asteroid field in the 3rd quadrant of the Alderaan system... he hasn't been seen since.

Steve, on Dec 24 2010, 09:30 AM, said:

There is not much point in having a sense of humour when you can not even remember it the next day.

[iRonnie]

Quote

But Ronnie, if you\\\'re drinking to feel good, rather than to hydrate or nourish, doesn\\\'t this mean you\\\'re drinking for the mind altering affects?

Eating makes me feel good for other reasons than the nourishment.  Nothing like the feeling of community when you share a few tallies with mates.  Mind altering.  Come off it DrJH. You have to drink an awful lot of grog to get your brain altered to the same level as heroin.  

Quote

If heroin came in a small dose as part of a nicely packaged beverage, would that be any different?

Yes.  It is more addictive and works differently.

Quote

Alcohol causes more health problems and costs society more than heroin.

More people consume alcohol.
If we all shot up on heroin, it would be a real mess.  You are presenting the same arguments  as those who want it lawful.

Quote

I don\\\'t know if the \\\'responsible drinkers\\\' are accountable for the deeds of the complete idiots. However, you\\\'re more responsible than
me who wouldn\\\'t have any problem with alcohol being banned.

So according to that argument DrJH I eat sugar so therefore I am also more responsible for all the overrweight peope\\\'s obesity.  Gee I am a bad arse.

Quote

I think comparing heroin with alcohol is fair. The addictive potential of different drugs varies greatly between individuals however Alcohol and Tobacco are at the top of the list with Heroin.

So alcohol is comparable to heroin because they are \\\"at the top of the list\\\" but the addictive potential between individual varies greatly.  But this doesn\\\'t mean that the addictive characteristics of both substances is exactly the same.  Tell  me why, given that a hell of a lot of people like a few beers and wine with their meals, tell us  why we aren\\\'t all  raging beer monsters or alcoholics.?  Nicotine is as addictive as any drug.  . More importantly the potental fro addiction is more easily realised.

Quote

The addictive potential of alcohol is  about twice that of ecstacy, LSD and Marihuana for example.

Potential for addicton is different to substances that are known to be many times more mind altering and harmful in a single hit than casual drinking. I ask DR JH would you rather stagger home  with a drunken mate or try to revive a mate who has had a bad trip on LSD.

You have rightly factored in just one reason why the potential is realised. For instance, you have identified, I assume, that some people have few D2 receptors and this predisposes them to addiction.  

Quote

Because some people are highly susceptible to addiction and drug abuse it takes little contact with the substance for it to become harmful for them. It is a reasonable argument that a general reduction in consumption of addictive drugs would also result in fewer people being harmed by addiction. However that reduction can not come about by legislation .IMO

.

It is also a reasonable argument to say , using your argument, that because little contact with certain vaccines and various medicines is harmful to some we should reduce consumption of these products.  Yes they are medicines but the like alcohol can harm some so can medicine.

Quote

On another thread people are showing surprise that people are gullible enough to buy a wrist band that has outrageous claims to performance enhancement. How much more gullible are people who use products with proven damaging affects?

Those supposed damaging affects are debatable and do not apply to all, as you have indicated above.  How gullible are those who refuse to use products which have been proven to be harmless, indeed, perhaps good for you if used in a sensible manner?
DR JH said: "I think all alcohol advertising is going to do is encourage more people to drink more alcohol! The more seemingly healthy role models (sportsmen) that are seen to be drinking the \\\'cooler\\\' it is." I'd too would like to  see our sport remain a lever against a drinking culture in the wider community that is increasingly becoming too over the top. So sponsorship from grog companies would have to considered very carefully.

Edited by iRonnie, 24 December 2010 - 05:01 PM.

[DrJH]

Ronnie, whether you like it or not, alcohol is having an affect on your brain (while drinking, I'm not insinuating you have any long term affects). As with heroin, small amounts will have a small affect, larger amounts a larger affect. If alcohol wasn't having an affect you could have a round of water or soft drinks with mates. I bet that wouldn't be as much fun.

As I said earlier, different ways of taking chemicals seems to change their social acceptability. Alcohol and caffeine in drinks is deemed okay, shooting up with friends isn't.

I haven't said I want heroin legalised either.

I'm not aware of sugar consumption harming other people.

Vaccines and medicines have benefits that far out weight their down side. Alcohol is the opposite.

I'm not trying to condemn people because they like the warm, fuzzy disinhibition they get from alcohol. As long as they realise it is a drug just like other less acceptable ones.

For myself, I prefer to keep my brain unaffected. Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc are just things I'm not into.

[ads]

Interesting read...

Look at what sort of food/alcohol companies sponsor mainstream sport. The experience is all about quantity and not quality, and keeping the bogan masses compliant. Their advertising budgets are inversely proportional to the quality of the product. Elite mainstream sport culture is yob culture and if banning alcohol advertising puts a dent in all that is wrong with mainstream sport culture, then giddy up.

Case in point: low-carb beer. Aim of low carb beer - mass consumption sans calories. Mass consumption sans taste and intelligence. People who don't like beer who like to be seen having beer and being health conscious at the same time. What the F%^k?

Note: this post has been compiled by a self-confessed pretentious beer snob. I love the stuff; love the taste, love the diversity of styles, love having informed discussions about the stuff the same way I do running, but really despise the fact one company (Fosters/CUB) can pump out an inferior product for mindless consumption and find itself splashed across the shirts of high profile sport teams (most of whom are dimwits).

Would I support a ban on alcohol advertising in sport (& sport related media)? you bet. Could that ban be extended to the wider community? Possibly. Would a price hike in alcohol concern me? Nah. Would it stop me from enjoying a good quality product. Nah.

People make choices. Most people like to be told how to make them. Therein lies the problem, a society of drones. Alcohol doesn't make people stupid. Alcohol makes stupid people insufferable.

Edited by ads, 24 December 2010 - 07:35 PM.

[AndyP]

Are some of you intentionally ignoring the fact that people might actually like the taste of these drinks?

Edited by AndyP, 24 December 2010 - 07:37 PM.

[bones]

AndyP, on Dec 24 2010, 05:36 PM, said:

Are some of you intentionally ignoring the fact that people might actually like the taste of these drinks?

I think you're missing the point - it's not whether you like to drink or like the taste of alcohol; it's whether it's appropriate to have alcohol producers sponsor sport. Clearly, companies are seeing the writing on the wall - before too long alcohol advertising will be banned -- so they're looking at making sure they keep on advertising their mind-altering substances.

[walshy2]

many sportstars like most of the adult population like a drink

we have all heard the stories....Booney on the flight to England, the NRL & AFL players getting on the turps and going nuts

so back to the original question of the thread as to whether alcohol and sponsorship of running is a worthwhile partnership

Depends from whose side the question is asked?

From a marketing perspective, if it wasn't a worthwhile partnership it wouldnt last long

If athletes didnt drink marketers would look elsewhere.

Yeah it's probably not good for you and we have all heard the stories of people on the grog going nuts, but the large majority know how to enjoy alcohol in the moderation intended without issue.

most things taken in excess are bad, so moderation is the key