125 replies to this topic

[chrisso]

Quote

"Rob Sloan of Sunderland Harriers had apparently made the decision to withdraw from the race at approximately 20 miles due to fatigue and after returning to the Leaplish Park area he decided to run the closing section of the course and crossed the finish line in third place"

http://www.news.com....i-1226164623761

Evan claimed he had proof on his garmin that he completed the course:

Quote

"I've got my Garmin Forerunner watch, which was on me at all times, and is GPS-tracked."

http://news.bbc.co.u...cs/15243825.stm

So under normal circumstances this guy wouldn't have cheated... but he was just too tired from a 10k race that he won the day before.

But what must have been going through his mind to think it was a good idea to jump off the bus and finish the race and then insist he completed the whole thing?? What is the embarrassment of a DNF to great that you would rather risk getting caught a cheat?

[Ultramouse]

Fred Lorz did the same thing in the 1904 Olympic marathon.

I imagine it's easy to get caught up in the deception until you feel incapable of backing out, but a cheat is still a cheat.

Dorando Pietri 'cheated' in the 1908 marathon but after collapsing on the track and being carried over the line by well meaning officials. I think we can forgive him though.

This precious chap in England should be blackballed from all clubs in the country.

[Colin]

Maybe he was an ultra runner and used to staged races and wanted to add his 10km of vthe day before to the 32km

[Bellthorpe]

From the US 'Biggest Loser' a couple of years back.

He did three miles in the producer's van so they'd get a good shot of him crossing the line triumphantly.

But it's OK, he went and ran the three miles 'later in the day'.

[halfwaydown]

All the details here - nice podium picture  
http://www.dailymail...o=feeds-newsxml

[Phanta]

I seem to vaguely recall a question in a recent game of Trivial Pursuit that said something along the lines of...  'Over 30 competitors in the 2000 Berlin Marathon were disqualified for taking what?....... The Subway'

As long as there are competitive events, there will be cheats. Be that through artificial means or 'creative interpretations of the course.' As long as organisers are aware that it will happen and have measures in place to identify/disqualify these people, then they only are ever cheating themselves in effect.

[Paul Every]

chrisso, on 12 October 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

But what must have been going through his mind to think it was a good idea...

I don't know what he was thinking, but he was probably feeling a bit Rosie.  

[TheRuns]

Of course he had GPS evidence he did the whole distance. The problem is that some of it is at 60km/h!
I'd hate to record a DNF but I'd hate to be branded (and known as) a cheat the most.

[thomo]

Paul Every, on 12 October 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

I don't know what he was thinking, but he was probably feeling a bit Rosie.  

Yes Paul, we remember the ruse has been done before.

[Lilly Legs]

What a sad, small little man.

There must be a psychology thesis in unravelling the logic that justifies this sort of self delusion.

[Kaiser]

Lilly Legs, on 13 October 2011 - 06:23 AM, said:

What a sad, small little man.

A cheat is a cheat is a cheat. Simple. It's a shame that he has tarnished his reputation with a moment of folly.

[undercover brother]

was there a spectator bus service the day before for the 10km?

[KevinCassidy]

Paul Every, on 12 October 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

I don't know what he was thinking, but he was probably feeling a bit Rosie.  

The incomparable Rosie Ruiz!!!!  Nothing like a quick subway ride midway through the New York marathon!!!

[Emma100]

I'm frequently close to the very back of the pack. In fact, I've proudly clocked up several last places in 10km races, half marathons and two in the marathon.

I also frequently see cheating. Typically, taking a short cut through the out and back bits. I tend to shout at the cheater "The turn around is further on! You're only kidding yourself." Some people respond with abuse (how attractive. A verbally abusive cheat.) Some people become ashamed and actually return to do the distance. I remember those I see cheating, and I have no respect for them whatsoever. (Funnily enough, someone I personally have witnessed cheat multiple times "encouraged" me at a recent race with the words "Doing it is the important thing." Yes, sweetie, it is. I earnt my last place in that race.)

I'm fat, middle aged, and some health issues. I'm also extraordinarily slow. Did I mention proud last place getter in multiple races and distance? How crap do you have to be to cheat to beat me?

[twosheds]

And seriously if you are going to cheat- don't go for a podium finish. Just makes it even more pathetic. Having said that- any very fast runner who would like to wear my timing chip in a  race....hehehe- just kidding
twosheds

[maryclaire]

Emma100, on 15 October 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

Did I mention proud last place getter in multiple races and distance? How crap do you have to be to cheat to beat me?

Brilliant.  Succinctly stated: just what benefit is gained from cheating?

The only query I have about cheating at Melbourne Marathon, which has so many opportunities for cheating along the course, is how many people would do so in order to get a qualifying time for an event such as Boston Marathon?

[tonedbutt]

Emma100, on 15 October 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

I'm frequently close to the very back of the pack. In fact, I've proudly clocked up several last places in 10km races, half marathons and two in the marathon.

I also frequently see cheating. Typically, taking a short cut through the out and back bits. I tend to shout at the cheater "The turn around is further on! You're only kidding yourself." Some people respond with abuse (how attractive. A verbally abusive cheat.) Some people become ashamed and actually return to do the distance. I remember those I see cheating, and I have no respect for them whatsoever. (Funnily enough, someone I personally have witnessed cheat multiple times "encouraged" me at a recent race with the words "Doing it is the important thing." Yes, sweetie, it is. I earnt my last place in that race.)

I'm fat, middle aged, and some health issues. I'm also extraordinarily slow. Did I mention proud last place getter in multiple races and distance? How crap do you have to be to cheat to beat me?

Well said.  One of my proudest achievements is coming last in my first triathlon, for which I got an "encouragement award" bigger than the placegetters' trophies.

[Ultraphil]

Very interesting thread.  Yes cheats are only cheating themselves and deluding themselves greatly!  Unfortunately they exist in all variants of running and unfortunately always will exist!

[Tony123]

And you also have the people who take performance enhancing drugs.  How do they live with themselves knowing that their performance is down to the drugs they are taking?  This drug taking is clearly at the elite level, drug testing in all sports is huge business.  Some people will do anything to win, if they can cheat and get away with it they will

[AlunDavies]

Kaiser, on 13 October 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

A cheat is a cheat is a cheat. Simple. It's a shame that he has tarnished his reputation with a moment of folly.

The greater majority of 30,000 + do it every year at the Bridge to Brisbane.

Cutting the corner as Links Avenue meets Kingsford Smith Drive and then again opposite the Breakfast Creek Hotel (a saving of close to 100 metres according to Google Earth).

Ok, mayb the greater majority is an exaggeration but I've been there 7 times and the huge majority when I've been passing those points do so.

[Unlikelyrunner]

And then there was Comrades (90km Ultra in South Africa for the unitiated) a few years back when a bloke won the event, only to be found out as a cheat shortly after.

At approx. half way he ran to the toilet to be replaced by his twin brother who sped off into the distance.

They got found out because there were initial suspicions, and then when it was investigated people found that he wore his watch on one hand whilst his brother wore it on the other.  SPRUNG BIG TIME!!!

[Colin]

Unlikelyrunner, on 18 October 2011 - 11:22 AM, said:

And then there was Comrades (90km Ultra in South Africa for the unitiated) a few years back when a bloke won the event, only to be found out as a cheat shortly after.

'They' didn't win it, think it was 8th or thereabouts (in 1999).

As a postscript, the one brother  ran again in 2010 (after suspension was over) to redeem himself, came 3rd and later was found to test positive for a banned substance.

[Unlikelyrunner]

Colin, on 18 October 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

'They' didn't win it, think it was 8th or thereabouts (in 1999).

As a postscript, the one brother  ran again in 2010 (after suspension was over) to redeem himself, came 3rd and later was found to test positive for a banned substance.

You are quite right. Amazing the lengths people will go to....

[pbig]

maryclaire, on 15 October 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Brilliant.  Succinctly stated: just what benefit is gained from cheating?

The only query I have about cheating at Melbourne Marathon, which has so many opportunities for cheating along the course, is how many people would do so in order to get a qualifying time for an event such as Boston Marathon?

It was good to see that they had installed a "timing" mat for the marathoners as we came back up St. Kilda Road after the Shrine circuit - there had previously been at least one very suspicious 10k sprint at the end of the marathon....

[SMC42K]

Who from the older brigade can forget the first Wang Marathon in Sydney (Forgot the year) and a runner named Tom Gibbons? Tom set out to be the first across the Harbour Bridge, which he accomplished whilst wearing his flatmates number. After pulling out & getting a lift close to the finish, he re-entered, wearing his own number this time & ran in with the first woman. While not getting a podium finish, Tom still accepted a finishers medal. All this was done during a live national telecast.

[cjr]

On of my main memoroes of my first marathon 10 years ago was overtaking a very large woman shuffling along shortly after the start - she was really huffing and puffing and I remember wondering how the hell she was ever going to finish. I then overtook her again just after halfway, and again a couple of kms from the finish....

[eoin]

I saw a follow up article a day or so ago about the guy that was mentioned in the original post. His club have disowned him, rightly too.

[Kaiser]

From here

Chairman of Sunderland Harriers Club Kevin Carr said that days after the marathon Mr Sloan had rang him in tears confessing his guilt.

Since then however, Mr Sloan’s wife Sharon said that her husband now claims to have been “set up”.




Guilty or not, I wonder how he'll ever rebuild his reputation.

[maryclaire]

My recollection of the Ruiz story at Boston is that the 2nd placed woman (ie. the REAL winner) was a Canadian woman.  However it did not become apparent that Ruiz had cheated for a few days, having accepted the winners laurel wreath and trophy in the meantime, and the Canadian woman returned home.  The Boston Athletic Association, once they realised what had happened, gave the Canadian woman her rightful winnings.  But to be honest, it must have been a real letdown to have missed out on all the atmosphere and adulation at the time.  

It seems, however, that Ruiz was an unintentional ambassador for Women's running.  As a result of her cheating, women winners of the Boston Marathon would be given medals the same size as the male winner.  From Wikipedia:

Gareau was awarded a winner's medal at a press conference over a week after the marathon, after jogging 20 yards and breaking a mock finish-line tape. Her medal was bigger than the one that Ruiz had originally received, equal in size to the larger men's medal. Since the 1980 race, women and men have been awarded medals equal in size. In 2005, Gareau served as Grand Marshal of the Boston Marathon, and in a special ceremony was allowed to recreate her finish and break the tape.



When looking at this video, it's hard to believe Rosie got away with it at all!  She didn't even know what speedwork was.

Rosie Ruiz

Edited by maryclaire, 21 October 2011 - 03:06 PM.

[Shahanga]

maryclaire, on 15 October 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

The only query I have about cheating at Melbourne Marathon, which has so many opportunities for cheating along the course, is how many people would do so in order to get a qualifying time for an event such as Boston Marathon?

I must say it took me a while to get my head around the concept of a middle of the packer cheating.  I just thought it was crazy, I mean why not just make up your time (and don't run at all) if you want to impress people who you didn't run with.  At least elite drug cheats i could understand their motivation (even though i didn't like it!)
Then I realised about qualifers - suddenly it made sense - cheat - qualify for Boston or New York or whatever and take the place of a legitimate performer.  Even worse enough people do it and they have to lower the qualifying times.  Its all pretty ordinary.  So I personally would be quite happy if some of my entry fees went to a cheats audit and that included more mats and bans for cheats.

[Slacker]

re  the middle of the pack cheat

I use to run a a guy a few years ago who was desperate to break the 3 hour mark for the marathon. During a Melbourne marathon he fell off the back of the 3 hour pace bus so apparantly decided to turn about 1.5 kms short of the turn around mark (cutting the race 3km short). Unfortuneately for him he blew up and the 3 hour pace group came back past him at which point a number of the runners recognised him from earlier when they saw him drop off.

He was the only runner DQ'd at the Melbourne marathon that year

This wasn't his first time cheating either, although he never admitted to it we believed he did the same thing to break 40 mins for a 10km event

[Kaiser]

Slacker, on 22 October 2011 - 06:49 AM, said:

He was the only runner DQ'd at the Melbourne marathon that year

This wasn't his first time cheating either, although he never admitted to it we believed he did the same thing to break 40 mins for a 10km event

And his motivation was? To get a qualifying time for another race or to break his 'personal best'? *sigh*

Edited by Kaiser, 22 October 2011 - 10:17 AM.

[WetWeek]

cjr, on 20 October 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

On of my main memoroes of my first marathon 10 years ago was overtaking a very large woman shuffling along shortly after the start - she was really huffing and puffing and I remember wondering how the hell she was ever going to finish. I then overtook her again just after halfway, and again a couple of kms from the finish....

Wow - triplets!  

[sammo72]

Cheaters definitely should be more harshly punished or even banned from the sport. I know we are only amateurs, but it should not be tolerated.

Saw a lot of it at last years Central Coast half marathon, which was a straight 11km out and back. Several people ducked off to the side of the track and then rejoined on the return leg, not completing the last few kms and being very fresh.

It also went on a few years ago at the Canberra Half, when people cut the loop out around Parliment House. Ducking off to the toilets and then rejoining the course on the other side of the park.

Really shits me.

[Gone2thepack]

Aside from the course marking being atrocious in Singapore last weekend for the TNF100 (  which had some legitimate mistakes in navigation) quite a few of the 100 solo runners ended up in front of me in the second 50km lap that never overtook.
Personally i had two offers from taxis for a lift and one guy further on when cutoffs were approaching that (knew  a short cut),but i earned my DNF fair and square.
Phew glad to get that DNF out of the way finally  

[Grechy]

The topic of cheats came up under one of the MM threads a few months back. Sadly I have personally known several people who have cheated in marathons and it isnt a good feeling when you find yourself training with someone who you know doesn't run to beat themself but more in an attempt to get other peoples respect.

I have trained in a group where it was fairly well known that certain people had cheated in particular Melbourne Marathons. Obviously it wasn't something we talked to them about but everyone knew they had done it. I have also trained in a group that featured a female runner who had a severe case of what I would call "Tonya Harding Syndrome" and you can work that one out for yourselves.

I cannot understand why on earth anyone would cheat in any race. You run for PB's and to achieve a good performance, not so people think we are something that we are not. A DNF is better than a DNS and everyone will experience a DNF at some time. Any person who cheats has serious social issues and needs help.

There was once a time when a few people thought I had cheated in a race. The only race I have ever not finished was the 2008 Burnley Half Marathon which is a course that gives plenty of opportunities to not do the required amount of laps. I pulled out after about 50 minutes and then walked about 20 minutes to the finish area where without thinking, I went to the area where several people I knew were de-briefing after their race. This meant that I gave an impression that I was claiming to have done the race in a time just over 70 minutes which is about 20 minutes slower than I would have if I had finished on the day. One guy who i didnt know that well shook my hand and said well done on a great race which was quite funny as I then informed him that I was actually a DNF. Another guy from my own club gave me a dirty look as he also thought I was claiming to have finished. I quickly got out of the area and informed everyone that I was definitely a DNF and thought they would notice that by my lack of sweat/exhaustion. But yeah if you can't finish the race, best to say away from the finishers area otherwise some might get suspicious.

I agree with Emma's comments. No shame in finishing last, no shame in not finishing at all. Complete shame to anyone who cheats!

[wombatoutofhell]

Grechy, on 22 October 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

This meant that I gave an impression that I was claiming to have done the race in a time just over 70 minutes which is about 20 minutes slower than I would have if I had finished on the day.

Are you claiming you'd normally do a 50 minute 1/2 marathon?  Wow!

[Grechy]

wombatoutofhell, on 22 October 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

Are you claiming you'd normally do a 50 minute 1/2 marathon?  Wow!

Hahaha Thanks for picking me up on that one Wombat. 20 minutes quicker would have been what I meant to say. Probably just over 90 minutes was the shape I was in at the time.

Edited by Grechy, 22 October 2011 - 09:10 PM.

[ninjette]

sammo72, on 22 October 2011 - 11:15 AM, said:

Saw a lot of it at last years Central Coast half marathon, which was a straight 11km out and back. Several people ducked off to the side of the track and then rejoined on the return leg, not completing the last few kms and being very fresh.

Sadly, I have to agree with this. The last two Central Coast Half races I have been really annoyed by passing people heading down to the turnaround, only to have to pass them again after the turnaround, without having seen them at all in between. The nature of the course, winding through bushy parkland, and the relatively small number of runners means it's all too easy for the lazy to manufacture their own turnaround point a km or so early. I'm always tempted to comment when I pass these people for the second time, but never have. Just give them a dirty look. Taking race numbers at the turnaround would help keep them honest, I imagine.

[undercover brother]

ninjette, on 22 October 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

The last two Central Coast Half races I have been really annoyed by passing people heading down to the turnaround, only to have to pass them again after the turnaround, without having seen them at all in between.

maybe they are trying to break their 19.8km pb?
or their ipod battery is running flat?

[Gone2thepack]

undercover brother, on 22 October 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

maybe they are trying to break their 19.8km pb?
or their ipod battery is running flat?

Oops theres that Ipod issue again  

I too got a lift back in Singapore and dropped my number off at the timing table. Was asked if i just finished. " Nah blew a head gasket and pulled out at 83km" seemed to shock them   walked with the number off up to the table,just incase i was mistaken for a being a finisher.
Suppose for some it would be an easy option, but wouldn't that just negate all the hard work and effort that has gone into the training?. At the end of the day we all have to live with ourselves.

Cheers

[Kaiser]

I'll in in Singapore in Dec for the marathon and now I wonder if I'll see cheating...it's a bit harder since the racing is done in the city and not on trails. By the way G2P, I've got friends who did the 50km duo and thus have been following the CR Northface thread and the facebook group. It's disappointing to see so many runners recorded as a DNF despite (I believe) genuinely finishing.

[Caterpillar]

Grechy, on 22 October 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

.......I have trained in a group where it was fairly well known that certain people had cheated in particular Melbourne Marathons. Obviously it wasn't something we talked to them about but everyone knew they had done it. I have also trained in a group that featured a female runner who had a severe case of what I would call "Tonya Harding Syndrome" and you can work that one out for yourselves.
...............

Goes to show there are personality disordered people amongst all walks of life....including athletics.

At another level, I had been toying with the idea of joining a local athletics club sometime in the next year or so, but now I'm not so sure.  

[Gone2thepack]

Kaiser, on 23 October 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

I'll in in Singapore in Dec for the marathon and now I wonder if I'll see cheating...it's a bit harder since the racing is done in the city and not on trails. By the way G2P, I've got friends who did the 50km duo and thus have been following the CR Northface thread and the facebook group. It's disappointing to see so many runners recorded as a DNF despite (I believe) genuinely finishing.

Im not entirely sure that the Race Organisers believe that the gear that they were using was substandard,but i definately made every checkpoint up to the point where i pilled out, but was only recorded as 64km i think.
Irrelevant in my case, but a bit upsetting for a few others i believe.

[Grechy]

Caterpillar, on 23 October 2011 - 07:52 AM, said:

Goes to show there are personality disordered people amongst all walks of life....including athletics.

At another level, I had been toying with the idea of joining a local athletics club sometime in the next year or so, but now I'm not so sure.  

I wouldn't let that put you off. Regardless of what sport you are involved with, you are going to have a few crazies. If you hang around long enough you become aware of where that sort of stuff happens and you learn to avoid it. Just wish I knew what I now know a few years ago as I certainly would have avoided certain people.

[Ultramouse]

Grechy, on 22 October 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

I have also trained in a group that featured a female runner who had a severe case of what I would call "Tonya Harding Syndrome" and you can work that one out for yourselves.

What!?

She tried to break your legs?

[Grechy]

ultramouse, on 23 October 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

What!?

She tried to break your legs?

Ahhh no my legs were fine but yeah there were a few females who suffered at her antics.

But getting back to the main topic, it is interesting why anyone would cheat. Who knows what goes through some peoples minds.

[AndyP]

They love to talk up their achievements and pat themselves on the back, despite how they got the result.

[RunningManMatt]

I know there would be an added expense to the organisers but why dont they place the timing mats right at the end of the out and back points of a course to expose the cheaters!!!!

[SirPlod]

Could this be the first forum post ever where everyone agrees?