Pat Carroll On Line Coaching Programs, General feedback Options

[zandrsmum]

Hi there, just after some feedback on these programs. I know a few of you have done them and have mentioned them in passing but couldn't find a dedicated thread. What is the overall impression? Are they worthwhile? Thanks, K

[Phoenix]

I had a sting with PC online a couple of years ago. They benefited me greatly as I then knew little about running training programs and these gave me a structured program that included intervals, tempo, long runs, time trials etc.

I took an hour an 10 minutes off my marathon time (mind you, it was really bad to start with).

[serena]

I used his online coaching for my marathon last year in the final couple of months and I thought he was terrific. Since then I have used a face to face coach and while this one was nowhere near as experienced as Pat, he pushed me harder because he could see me and I improved quite a bit.

[muppet]

I'm reasonably new to running (18mths) and have been doing an online program with Pat for the last 2 mths or so. I have found it to be good as it has brought some variety into my training (eg intervals etc) that I didn't really know how to structure myself. I also have found that I have been better at sticking to it. Pat has always responded really quickly to emails etc.

[batavia]

I have been a very satisfied customer for sevral years, have found the structure very helpful. I am working in the countryside in Asia so tend to do a good deal of training alone, I have found them ideal for this and Pats comments insightful.

[TrackRunner]

I would only use an online coach if there was no other option. While having someone set a program based on your current ability and adjusting it as you improve is probably safer than going alone, training under a qualified coach in person will yield the best results. The extra motivation, assesment and fine tuning of tequnique, communication etc etc would be money well spent. Online coaching has its place in the world or it simply wouldnt exist, but i have seen runners try both approaches and having an "in-person" coach is best, if you can.
good luck

[rohan]

pat's programs: reasonable, sensible.
promptness: very good
depth of response: ok.
ability to adapt outlook to specific problems: not so good.

wound up getting a coach I can see from time to time.

[Solace]

I completely agree with Rohan's assessment. I am currently using Pat to help me improve my times, which is working I might add, but I would prefer a face to face coach. I just need to locate one.

[zandrsmum]

Thank you for the replies, I am thinking of using this to get me from 21k to 32k for King Island, as soon as I increase the k's/intensity I seem to get injured. I think I will look around for a face to face coach but so far have had trouble finding someone in my area, Knox Vic. Any recomendations would be appreciated. This could provide a little structure for me, I want to start doing well in my races not just completing them. Thanks again, K

[Peterhorse]

.... as soon as I increase the k's/intensity I seem to get injured. ...

This is a very good reason to have a coach. I used Pat's services for my first two marathons in the on line format and been going to the face to face sessions for 4 years or so. He's great and the programs are well proven. The personal feedback that comes (via email) from providing him regular updates on what you have done against the plan is where you will find input ot prevent injuries. Obviously giving him some advice first will help as well.

To get a face to face personal coach would be bloody expensive i'd imagine. To meet your stated goal, Pat's service would be effective and good value for money.

The only tip i would have will sound a bit daft ... that is "to listen and take notice of what they say" rather than try and justify what you do.

Good luck

PH

[rohan]

To get a face to face personal coach would be bloody expensive i'd imagine. To meet your stated goal, Pat's service would be effective and good value for money.

similar money to pat for me.
squad sessions included in the 6 weekly fee.

[sydneyplodder]

I must say that I have been using Pat's online coaching since March this year and have found it to be of great use. The regular feedback and prompt replies to email have been useful for me in preparing for my first marathon. The mix in the training sessions is something I have enjoyed and his goal setting has always been great for pushing me on. As a rsult of his program I am now in a position to start in my first marathon, but in the process have broken 2 hours for the half (1hr 55mins) and knocked about 8 minutes of my City to Surf PB, getting it down to 77 minutes. Like what others have previously said, I guess it depends on personality - whether you respond better to the challenge and self management or need someone there to drive you on in person.

[zandrsmum]

This is great feedback. I am very motivated and work hard on my own. My need is for structure and guidance. PH, good point on listening to the advice. Do we know each other Thanks everyone, I think I will give it a go, it can only improve my running and I feel like I have a good idea of what to expect now so won't be dissapointed if it is a little 'standard' in approach. Thanks again, K

[Peterhorse]

...PH, good point on listening to the advice. Do we know each other

nah, just a lucky guess... i see and hear many a keen and motivated person interrupting the feedback with their justifications, and been very guilty of that in the past.
Pat replied to my updated diary one time with "you like your long runs don't you Peter. Just try and stick to the program if you can and you will avoid overuse injuries" . I was doing extra sessions and longer long runs than the plan suggested etc. Soon after getting that advice and thinking at the time 'but i want to do longr runs than his plan', i promptly got an overuse injury and was sidelined for 3 weeks. seems like no matter how much good advice you (well... I) get, it's not until you (well... I) make the said mistakes and have a consequence that i believe the advice. bugger it
good luck with it
PH
p.s. that sounds like good value for a personal coach Rohan. Pat is happy to discuss things at the face to face sessions (he hangs around after the session) so there is still personal service in the group format. There's plenty of help form the more experienced runners too, which i've learned a lot from.

[rohan]

p.s. that sounds like good value for a personal coach Rohan. Pat is happy to discuss things at the face to face sessions (he hangs around after the session) so there is still personal service in the group format. There's plenty of help form the more experienced runners too, which i've learned a lot from.

not personal coach, most feedback is at group sessions or phone call, but in the leadup to a major event you might make time for meeting to discuss the program etc.

[maryclaire]

I used PC last year to get me to the Melbourene Marathon (my first) - he coached me from 1/1/08 to the October marathon - so about 9 months. I cannot sing his praises enough - his program was highly structured yet flexible enough to fit in with my lifestyle and the time I was able to devote to running. It was varied enough to avoid boredom. He watched carefully for overtraining. I am a fairly independent runner and so was not very good at posting feedback to him. He only had to tell me to pull my head in once when I ran a 34km run at a faster pace than he wanted. At the end of the day, I met my goal and had a very successful marathon. Along the way I learnt what I was capable of as a runner and had a great year of solid running and new PBs.

I am now with a local coach and appreciate having face-to-face contact. I run with him once a week and phone contact fortnightly, as well as weekly e-mails. I am much better at posting my training diary in full detail. I think a personal coach will squeeze just that extra bit more out of me than an online coach would be able to - but of course, my new coach has inherited a client that has a good solid year of proper training under her belt which I am sure is easier to work with.

I am a firm believer in the value of coaching for the newly-addicted runner who wants to test their limits and fitness while minimising risk or injury/overtraining. It is good value for money as long as you follow the program faithfully!

[bennie]

I am a firm believer in the value of coaching for the newly-addicted runner who wants to test their limits and fitness while minimising risk or injury/overtraining. It is good value for money as long as you follow the program faithfully!

Couldn't agree more MC!! :-)

As you *might* be aware, i'm also on the Pat Carroll program and what you've described above is exactly me!!! :-)

I was a brand new runner with NO experience. Pat's program has been perfect for me, injury free, loving running, seeing goals come up regularly etc. My goal is the melbourne 1/2 of which i know i'll complete successfully...

and i can put 100% of it down to Pat's plan... It was so gentle to start with even though i wanted to push on, thankfully i didn't! :-)

I signed up for 26 weeks ( i've got 5 to go ) and i'll most likely continue with Pat's program until I complete my first marathon.

Out of interest, i counted up the number of emails that i've received from Pat... It surprised even me! 41 individual emails!!! That's a lot of correspondence! :-)

Cheers.
bennie.

[zandrsmum]

It is great to hear so many success stories even those who now prefer or recommend face to face coaching still achieved their goals with PC. I have done no formal training so to speak so the more I read the more I think I will benefit from this. I am thinking of attending masters over Summer so maybe this will provide a face to face element combined with my current running group I hope I will have all bases covered. It really is my weekly on my own training that I need the help with to get the most out of it. I have e-mailed Pat to see if a 12 or 16wk program would be better and looking forward to getting started after Melbourne. Thanks again for all the info and for those who have PM'd me to share their experiences. Happy running, K

[zandrsmum]

Hi all, just checking in to let you know I have started with PC online and so far am really happy. I am 2 weeks in and it is just what I wanted. I am getting the structure and varietyI need to improve and can see myself getting better as the program progesses. Pat's replies to email have been within a few hours and have been relevant and friendly. I decided on the 16 week program and it is great to have no excuse when it is hot!! It is a real benefit not to think too much ahead, I just look at each session as it approaches and trust that if I keep doing that I will meet my goal.
Thanks to all who offered insight, I am sure have made the right decison for this point in my training. K

[Black Hole]

Thank you for the replies, I am thinking of using this to get me from 21k to 32k for King Island, as soon as I increase the k's/intensity I seem to get injured. I think I will look around for a face to face coach but so far have had trouble finding someone in my area, Knox Vic. Any recomendations would be appreciated. This could provide a little structure for me, I want to start doing well in my races not just completing them. Thanks again, K

Hi Zandrsmun,

I know an experienced coach who has beaten Pat Carroll in Marathons who lives only a couple of kms from you place. His rates are cheaper than Pat's and will provide that face to face contact that you need. He will also be starting up 'The Basin' running group next year so that people like you will be able to run with like minded people, which will provide a lot more motivation and comraderie than an online only program.

[zandrsmum]

Thanks BH, keep me posted. How cheap are you??? K

[wombatoutofhell]

I can't answer your questions, but I'm following the replies closely. I've given alot of throught to getting a coach, in particular someone to help me sort out my biomechanical issues. I suspect most coaches would throw their hands up in dispair if they tried to do a program for me due to the list of events I want to do next year. Still, a coach for the next few months might work out well for me.
Good luck with the PC online. I'll be interested in how it goes-he did wonders for Maryclaire.

[zandrsmum]

WOOH, yes MC 's progress was one of the factors that inspired me to go this way. Will let you know how I get on, so far so good but it seems BH is after a coaching gig!! K

[rohan]

though often just subjecting yourself to the regularity of a program, any program, and sticking to it, will achieve more than the excuses you might make by yourself.
Also is the improvement due to PC as coach, or would almost any coaching achieve a similar result?

Having been under 3 coaches I really don't think a particular coach is going to produce magic versus other coaches assuming they know their stuff.
just having some oversight from a competent coach is going to produce minor magic.

the quality of feedback you provide is an important ingredient. eg regularly, clearly, concisely... and you have to analyze your own performances because you have access to more information about you than a coach does.

[maryclaire]

Good luck with the PC online. I'll be interested in how it goes-he did wonders for Maryclaire.

true - I credit much of last years' success to PC. I will qualify this statement with the fact that it was first "real" year of training, so of course it was to be expected that I would achieve PBs at nearly everything I attempted. I think this 2nd year has been much harder mentally as I have not hit my racing goals (in hindsight due to an inherent injury that limits speed). But I also think that for a late-in-life runner like myself, the challenge of any decent coach is to manage expectations when the runner wants to continually have success after success.

I agree therefore with Chillimans' statement that a good coach will be able to draw out your best, no matter who the coach is (allowing for personality issues). The PC program in many respects is a generic program that is tried and true - there's no doubt it works. The icing on the cake with personal coaching is the rapport that can be built over a long time as he/she comes to know your strengths and weaknesses, and will tweak things in the program to help you reach your potential. It takes a long to build this relationship - my current coach uses different approaches to tapering for various clients, as some people respond better to resting before a race (me) and others race better when they are "peaking" without much rest beforehand. JMHO

[DontStop]

As others have said, if you can manage it, you can't beat a face-to-face coach.

I had a couple of different coaches as a junior, and the key benefits were immediate and relevant feedback on your group sessions (three a week)... a coach who actually sees you race on most occasions (obviously easy when it's track)... and a group of other athletes (many quicker than you) to train with: it's almost impossible to do intense sessions to the best of your ability by yourself.

None of these three benefits can be delivered by an online coach; no matter how good they are.

Another option for those who require structure, is to 'adopt' a coach's training philosophy, and become a self-coached runner sticking quite rigidly to a coach's methods.

For example, you can buy a book from a coach like Brad Hudson or Pete Pfitzinger... and with a little thought on your own part, construct a very well thought-out and proven regime for yourself. If you're disciplined and sensible, you should be fine. And in reality, it's exactly the same as having someone give you a program online.

Not a bad option if money's tight, at least. But the key, I believe, is to find someone whose philosophies you agree with, and stick with their program; don't go chopping and changing every couple of months. Continuity and gradual adaptation are the key - not miracle programs that will change your running overnight.

Also, if you're using an online coach, I'd try and find one who is also capable of teaching you the why's of it all - not just someone who's going to give you a training program. Ultimately, you want to learn how the body adapts, what different sessions do for you, and why you're doing certain sessions.

[zandrsmum]

Just an update for anyone who is interested. The program is going really well. I feel extended, am running further and more consistantly than ever before and feel confident at this point of reaching my goal. I have found Pat to be very helpful and quick to reply. The only thing so far I feel I have needed is help with is my form during speed work as I have never done this before in any structured way. I am very fortunate to run with very knowlegable people who have been able to help me in this area but without their support I don't think I would be getting as much out of the program as I am. Enjoying the variey in the training and when you are busy it really takes the pressure off to work it out for yourself. I am missing the spontinaity that comes with running. This is the first program I have followed and I miss just going out running... because. At this point would definately recommend it as an option for someone with limited knowledge who needs a starting point. K

This post has been edited by zandrsmum: Jan 13 2010, 07:49 PM

[Fitnhealthy]

I have done Pats program 2 years ago and it was great for my first half marathon and I have just signed up again for the Great Ocean half marathon and Gold Coast half marathon this year so that I know I am doing the training I require, without thinking about it. Good motivation and keeps me focussed.

[lilrunner]

I'm thinking about doing Pat's online program and wanted to get some feedback before committing.

I'm currently going by the Gold Coast Marathon training plan (available on their website). When it gets to 18 weeks before the GC marathon, I'll start to refer to Hal Higdon's novice marathon training plan also to make sure I'm running enough KMs throughout the week.

So far, I'm only on week 3 of the GC marathon plan and I'm probably doing a bit more than what they are asking, but I'm feeling quite comfortable with the distances and I'm only increasing my distance by a max of 10% each week.

This will be my second marathon that I am training fom so I have a little bit of experience with the training and know what I have to do. The Hal Higdon plan worked for me last time I ran a marathon so I have faith in the program.

I guess a part of me is being doubtful about my motivation. I don't seem to be enjoying my runs as much as I use to (when I was training for my first marathon). But I love the sense of achievement of being about to run 42kms again so that's what's keeping me focused on my training.

So for someone like me, will I still benefit greatly by doing Pat's online coach program, even though I feel like I am on track? I don't have any time goals in mind. All I want to do is complete the marathon with a very minimal amount of walking - don't care how slow I run.

Also, will Pat's program differ much from Hal Higdon's program?

Thanks for any advice

[rohan]

Also, will Pat's program differ much from Hal Higdon's program?

yes. usually.

pat's programs tend to have more speed/fast work in them than a hal higdon program.

higdon programs often have a race pace run saturday followed by sunday long run.

pat's programs have no race pace running bar one 4km pace run during the last week of taper b4 a marathon. (at least they didn't use to).

will this make much difference to you? dunno, that depends on how you respond to the different approaches.
(disclaimer, over recent years I seem to be having some success with race pace sessions as part of M training).

[zandrsmum]

I'm thinking about doing Pat's online program and wanted to get some feedback before committing.

I'm currently going by the Gold Coast Marathon training plan (available on their website). When it gets to 18 weeks before the GC marathon, I'll start to refer to Hal Higdon's novice marathon training plan also to make sure I'm running enough KMs throughout the week.

So far, I'm only on week 3 of the GC marathon plan and I'm probably doing a bit more than what they are asking, but I'm feeling quite comfortable with the distances and I'm only increasing my distance by a max of 10% each week.

This will be my second marathon that I am training fom so I have a little bit of experience with the training and know what I have to do. The Hal Higdon plan worked for me last time I ran a marathon so I have faith in the program.

I guess a part of me is being doubtful about my motivation. I don't seem to be enjoying my runs as much as I use to (when I was training for my first marathon). But I love the sense of achievement of being about to run 42kms again so that's what's keeping me focused on my training.

So for someone like me, will I still benefit greatly by doing Pat's online coach program, even though I feel like I am on track? I don't have any time goals in mind. All I want to do is complete the marathon with a very minimal amount of walking - don't care how slow I run.

Also, will Pat's program differ much from Hal Higdon's program?

Thanks for any advice

Hi lilrunner, if it is focus and motivation you feel you are lacking Pat's programs could be for you. This was one of the reasons I signed on, my mid week running was floundering a little. You may like the variety the program offers giving you a different approach than last time you trained for a marathon.
Contact Pat, get a feel for what he has to offer. See if you like the responses he gives. I have found him to be very approachable but as previously discussed in this thread on line coaching isn't for everyone but you will find it more personal that a book and having the opportunity to get feedback on your sessions is really valuable. I have made great improvements over the past 11 weeks, more than I ever would have on my own. K

[lilrunner]

Thanks rohan, zandrsmum for your replies!

I think that's a good suggestion to contact Pat and maybe try out his 4wk program for starters.

I'm a plodder and tend to only have one pace, but that is also what I enjoy.

[zandrsmum]

Just a brief post to conclude my Pat Carroll experience. It has been a very valuable learning tool for me. I have come to really appreciate the benefits of using a program from both the growth and recovery angle. I have improved so much over the 18 weeks without overtaining, which was always my downfall. I found Pat started me at exactly the right spot for where I was at, I always felt challenged and out of my comfort zone but never out of my league. I achieved my goal and found Pat at all times to be helpful, friendly and prompt with replies. Money well spent. K

[HillsAths1]

Congratulations to you and also to Pat for another happy customer.

[maryclaire]

Just a brief post to conclude my Pat Carroll experience. It has been a very valuable learning tool for me. I have come to really appreciate the benefits of using a program from both the growth and recovery angle. I have improved so much over the 18 weeks without overtaining, which was always my downfall. I found Pat started me at exactly the right spot for where I was at, I always felt challenged and out of my comfort zone but never out of my league. I achieved my goal and found Pat at all times to be helpful, friendly and prompt with replies. Money well spent. K

YAY zandrsmum!!! How was it??? I'd love to have an update.....

[zandrsmum]

YAY zandrsmum!!! How was it??? I'd love to have an update.....

Thanks MC and HillsAths1, it was a terrific event in such a beautiful place. It was the most well supported run I think I have done and the locals really know how to welcome their visitors. I ran the 32k in 3.05.xx with very even 10k spilts and felt great at the end, although I think my feet might disagree with that statement! Despite my interupted prep with the sinus infection, I felt during the run I had done the work and never doubted my ability to finish in the time I had planned. All in all a fantastic weekend. Karyn

[Wenny]

If it helps anyone, I only had praise for Pat's program: this is my testimonial which is on his webpage:

I can only give your coaching the highest possible recommendation to anyone else who would like to achieve a running goal. Without your help I could not have achieved 3.27. I would have had much lower expectations. The successful execution of your training program gave me all the confidence I needed to attempt what I previously thought was impossible. It feels great to know I did the very best I could.

He shows genuine interest in your training, and his tailored program is perfect for someone who is new to running, or wants to improve their times. Two thumbs up.

[HotnSweaty]

I am using Pat to help me get a Boston qualifier for GCM (3:20 for me) after running a couple of marathons in the 3:30s last year. I find his program is perfect for me as I prefer training alone, although he gives alot of good feedback and is very good at replying to my emails.

The program also works well for me living in singapore as it is focused around 2 hard sessions a week - the rest of the running is at an easy pace (5:30-6mins per k usually in my case). The heat here makes it difficult to do more than a couple of very hard sessions a week (for me anyway). Also I tend to do most of my running at lunchtime, which lately has meant doing intervals in mid 30s temp and high humidity (or heat index around 40) so i appreciate "taking it easy" on the other days.

I was in Sydney this week so I ran the Weston Creek Half Marathon on Sunday (this was built into the program) and my time was 1hr 34mins, which was faster than the goal Pat had set me (and much faster than i thought i could run). I managed a negative split and strong last 5k (21:40). Also despite doing most of my training on dead flat roads in Singapore, the interval work obviously helped my strength as well as leg speed as i managed the undulating course quite well.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say and in my case I am already seeing concrete evidence of (significant) improvement so I am extremely happy with the program. Next milestone for me is the GOR "half" which will be the last serious hit out before GCM.

This post has been edited by HotnSweaty: Mar 16 2010, 12:38 PM

[Olmy]

Glad to see these posts. I have just signed up with Pat with a view to do my first marathon in Sept. Looking forward to getting the program!

[freelea]

I've just contacted Pat, looking forward to starting with him for the GC half

[turtle-runner]

Well I just got my 8 week program from Pat Carroll for my lead up to the GOR Marathon - a little bit scared - a move to time based runs instead of distance - and a lot more interval training with warm up / cool down than I have been doing - but plan on following it and seeing how I go. Now to just work out my Garmin 405 to do time interval instead of distance.

[KeithE]

I've just contacted Pat, looking forward to starting with him for the GC half

Hi Freelea,

I am doing the GC Half as well ...
What does it cost to get a training schedule from Pat?
Do you run with a club?
Remember GC Runners are good to train with as well ..

www.goldcoastrunnersclub.com.au

Regards,

Keith

[freelea]

Hi Freelea,

I am doing the GC Half as well ...
What does it cost to get a training schedule from Pat?
Do you run with a club?
Remember GC Runners are good to train with as well ..

www.goldcoastrunnersclub.com.au

Regards,

Keith

Hey Keith,

The cost of the program varies, best to contact Pat, its very very reasonable though.
I don't run in a club but am definitely interested, although 5am runs don't inspire me

[Rainlover]

Had a couple of my best running years when using Pat's on-line program. Felt at times that my program was not too challenging however speed/interval always were due to the time limits I would have to achieve. The fact that he keeps an close eye on progress and injuries etc. - providing you are being totally honest with him, his programs will not have you overtraining, overcooked and hence reducing the risks of injury. I also found him to be happy to have a chat if anything was unclear on the program and he was always willing to listen and provide helpful advice. When I set my next goal, I plan to contact him again.

[KeithE]

Hey Keith,

The cost of the program varies, best to contact Pat, its very very reasonable though.
I don't run in a club but am definitely interested, although 5am runs don't inspire me

Gold Coast Runners start 6:30am on Sundays
Always looking for new members... Come along ... Bring a friend if you want
there's all different levels... I'm always near the back
of the pack .... Itwill really help with your training...
Keith

[zandrsmum]

Well I just got my 8 week program from Pat Carroll for my lead up to the GOR Marathon - a little bit scared - a move to time based runs instead of distance - and a lot more interval training with warm up / cool down than I have been doing - but plan on following it and seeing how I go. Now to just work out my Garmin 405 to do time interval instead of distance.

Hi turtle-runner, the shift from km to time based training was new for me as well but I have to say I loved it. It allows for extra effort on hills, in different weather conditions and for just generally how you feel. A great day could see me do 12k in an hour while in the heat of summer I may only have covered 10k but the effort was the same. One weeks long run was 2.20 and I ran 26k while another 3hr run was very hilly and I only did 25k. I also find it easier to make the 10% increase each week. The interval training was a lot of fun, especially if you can find yourself a partner. Good luck, may see you at GOR. K

[Olmy]

Well I just got my 8 week program from Pat Carroll for my lead up to the GOR Marathon - a little bit scared - a move to time based runs instead of distance

Yup, me too! Always used mapmyrun to figure routes and distances. I'm not sure how to do a time base - just start running and after half the time turn around and run home?

[Solace]

Yup, me too! Always used mapmyrun to figure routes and distances. I'm not sure how to do a time base - just start running and after half the time turn around and run home?

The way I did it was that I knew that I would cover roughly a certain distance in the set time. So, I would mark out a route that was close to that distance and run. If I ran out of time before I made it home, I just had a nice cool down walk home. If I ran out of distance, I would just double back, or do a few laps around a block or whatever. I was usually pretty close to the mark though so it was never a huge issue.

[freelea]

Mapmyrun?

Thanks Keith, will probably see me soon :-)

[mattrockell]

Hi there, just after some feedback on these programs. I know a few of you have done them and have mentioned them in passing but couldn't find a dedicated thread. What is the overall impression? Are they worthwhile? Thanks, K

My two cents...

Depending on your running ability at the start of one of the programs they can be fantastic.

For someone that hasn't had much running expereience or expereience with a structured form of sport-specific training, they can massively improve run times and your overall running expereience.