207 replies to this topic

[NKOTB]

I did my first C2S last year and exceeded all my expectation with a time of 63:14. It was one of those run where almost everything were spot on.

Last year from late May- early August I did hill training and some interval (500m 1000m) training. I also did a weekly threshold run and a few LR 16-20km.

This year I think have better endurance having just done a Marathon in April and have continued to do weekly 20-24km long run. I have just started hill training and have not done any speed training.

Currently I am not sure how i am going to find the extra 3:15 to get under 60 mins. I am going to need all the help I can get.

Has anyone got specific training tips for C2S ?

New_Kid

[Tongey]

NKOTB, on 25 May 2011 - 10:47 PM, said:

Has anyone got specific training tips for C2S ?

New_Kid

I would say you need to do a couple of speedwork sessions each week, and do some 10k races before the C2S.

[UnfitnessFanatic]

Just wondering with how hilly the course is what time should do you suggest you would have to be doing in a flat 10k to achieve sub 60 in the c2s?

[NKOTB]

Tongey, on 26 May 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

>>I would say you need to do a couple of speedwork sessions each week, and do some 10k races before the C2S.

Good suggestion about the 10K races. I did only one 10k time trial last year. As for speed work I intend to add one per week to my training.

>>Just wondering with how hilly the course is what time should do you suggest you would have to be doing in a flat 10k to achieve sub 60 in the c2s?

I think you have to be about 41:30 for the 10K to be a good chance. McMillan calculator says about 42min. Last year 3 weeks after my C2S i did a 10k
race in 43:54. My friend who did 58:20 (C2S) did 40:28 for the same 10km.

New_Kid

[walshy2]

This months Run for your life Mag has some training plans for C2S for runners of all abilities

grab a copy and give it a go

Note....I have no interest/affiliation with the mag so not a shameless plug, just a subscriber

[UnfitnessFanatic]

Thanks NKOTB, gives me a target to aim for now as I had no idea at this stage what sort of time I should be expecting in this race.

Edited by UnfitnessFanatic, 26 May 2011 - 08:56 PM.

[Action]

UnfitnessFanatic, on 26 May 2011 - 06:03 PM, said:

Just wondering with how hilly the course is what time should do you suggest you would have to be doing in a flat 10k to achieve sub 60 in the c2s?

low 42 should do the trick,

[johnnyboyrun]

I have spent many months training for TNF100 which was all long slow runs. I have done the C2S before but pretty much amongst everything else. I have now had two weeks of doing nothing and am ready to give it a real crack for sub 60 this year... just wondering if anyone has or is in the same position and what advice you could give?

Cheers guys

[harmer56]

johnnyboyrun, on 26 May 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

I have spent many months training for TNF100 which was all long slow runs. I have done the C2S before but pretty much amongst everything else. I have now had two weeks of doing nothing and am ready to give it a real crack for sub 60 this year... just wondering if anyone has or is in the same position and what advice you could give?

Cheers guys

I'm in the same position, having just spent a season doing long distance triathlons, lots of long slow runs!
I managed a 54:55 last year at my first C2S, not sure if I'll be able to crack sub-55 again this year (I think I set the bar too high with my first attempt ). I'm just trying to get the speed back by starting with some reasonably short runs (30-35 mins) at about 4:15/km pace and then build from there. Endurance won't be a problem for you, it's just a matter of getting the legs used to turning over a bit faster! 14k should be easy after TNF100

[johnnyboyrun]

harmer56, on 27 May 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

I'm in the same position, having just spent a season doing long distance triathlons, lots of long slow runs!
I managed a 54:55 last year at my first C2S, not sure if I'll be able to crack sub-55 again this year (I think I set the bar too high with my first attempt ). I'm just trying to get the speed back by starting with some reasonably short runs (30-35 mins) at about 4:15/km pace and then build from there. Endurance won't be a problem for you, it's just a matter of getting the legs used to turning over a bit faster! 14k should be easy after TNF100

Cheers mate, im glad someone else is in the same position...

As i have not ran for two weeks i was thinking an easy week next week. Then 2 speed sessions (1 tempo, 1 interval), 1 long run 20-20km easy, 1 x 10km midpace run.. With probably 2 x 10km races, and 3 x 5km tt/Races before the day.

[langswm]

...just stick with me people...I'll get you home!

[Rock Doctor]

Have a look at this calculator. It worked quite well for me. Estimated time 59:27. Actual Time 58:36, so a bit quicker, but I had been doing a lot of hill training.

[thomo]

Rock Doctor, that calculator is very good.

Put in my P.B half marathon from the 80's and it came up within a minute of what I did that year at C2S.

Sadly, it is too honest for me using this year's P.Bs over 10km and half marathon . 66 - 67's is the best I can hope for.

[thomo]

After the ANSW 10km Championships there has been some good movement closer to sub 60:00 by several CoolRunners.

Jonny Dark and OurDogScruff have become tantalisingly close and are now in the low 61:00's. Barefoot in the super low 60:00's.

Feel free to add your updates. I am now in the very high 62:00's.

Edited by thomo, 05 June 2011 - 08:05 PM.

[NKOTB]

I haven't got  a 10K run (TT) but i intend to have one on the long weekend Queen Birthday. I will report back then.
Otherwise training is coming along fine.

New_Kid

[MiddleChild]

If you look at any training programme it is usually easy to see a developing pattern:

- Speedwork interval/ Fartlek training (if you haven't heard this before, stop laughing and go google it)
- Hill sprint repeats
- Distance runs building up to at least 14k
- Cross training perhaps focusing on breathing and core muscles e.g. swimming, pilates

The only thing that varies is the frequency and the intensity. If you want to go faster you usually have to do more training at some or all of the above.
A lot of the end result depends on how much time you can dedicate to the training, and whether or not you can have a good build up of training that is injury free.

Sure the Dents, Moneghettis, De Castellas of this world can run fast; but can they take 3 mins (~5%) off their PB whilst working full time; studying UNI part time; and have two kids under 5 all at the same time?

By my measure - I'm a greater runner than half the elites!!!

*Dons flameproof suit*

[Bellthorpe]

No serious training programme with which I'm familiar would have cross-training as a component. Nor would it call 14k a long run. More like a recovery run.

[NKOTB]

MiddleChild, on 06 June 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

If you look at any training programme it is usually easy to see a developing pattern:

................

Sure the Dents, Moneghettis, De Castellas of this world can run fast; but can they take 3 mins (~5%) off their PB whilst working full time; studying UNI part time; and have two kids under 5 all at the same time?

By my measure - I'm a greater runner than half the elites!!!

*Dons flameproof suit*

I'm not sure what's your point but it's good to have self confident.

New_Kid

[NKOTB]

How's everyone going with their prep ? I am facing a massive challenge just to equal last year's 63 mins....but i am always
hoping all will click into place on 14 August to get close to sub 60. Training is ok but I got to really push harder from here on.


New_Kid

[Maffrew]

NKOTB, on 14 July 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

How's everyone going with their prep ?

Definitely feel like i'm facing a huge challenge too, but I've had some good runs lately that have boosted my confidence a little. Monday I did a 6km run at an average pace of 3:59 which was the first time i've done 4 min kms or less for more than a couple of kms. It was in a flat area so not entirely relevant to City2Surf, BUT it definitely feels good to know I can push myself further and faster than I previously thought.

[aDrain]

Hmmm yes. Just last night I wondered if it was going to be another year of "going for" rather than "getting".

[Skat]

I did 58:29 2 years ago, then had a calf injury last year so had to walk. I had an achillies injury about a month ago and lost 2 weeks training and am now just getting over the flu which is another week of missed training. At this rate I will be lucky to get sub 75 and keep my red group, but will do my best and still looking forward to a great day out. Enjoy!

[HillsAths1]

Rock Doctor, on 27 May 2011 - 05:21 PM, said:

Have a look at this calculator. It worked quite well for me. Estimated time 59:27. Actual Time 58:36, so a bit quicker, but I had been doing a lot of hill training.

Thanks Rock Doctor, you have saved me the worry about actually running the City To Surf. I now know that my time for 2011 is 56.16. I thought I was going to get a 55 to 55.30 but I guess a 56.16 without entering and standing in the cold will just have to do for this year.

I wish all my runs felt as easy as that!

[MiddleChild]

NKOTB, on 14 July 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

How's everyone going with their prep ?

Well everything was on track. Running 4 min kms; lots of hill sprint repeats.

And then last Friday my kids bring home the Flu Superbug from child care.

This has been rough. I have managed one quick run in the last week. And only because I was getting toey.

I feel like I have dropped and 65 mins is now looking tough. I am going to need to go hard and risk an
injury in the last three weeks. Maybe I can do enough to ramp it up and have one final push and arrive
at the start line at my peak.

Or maybe I'll push too hard too quickly?

I hate this pressure. This event can be so much more psychological than physiological.

[UnfitnessFanatic]

HillsAths1, on 14 July 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

Thanks Rock Doctor, you have saved me the worry about actually running the City To Surf. I now know that my time for 2011 is 56.16. I thought I was going to get a 55 to 55.30 but I guess a 56.16 without entering and standing in the cold will just have to do for this year.

I wish all my runs felt as easy as that!

My latest 10k time gave me a similar figure to yours when put into the calculator, ill be extatic with that time from what people have told me heartbreak hill is like.  I do a bit of hill work at Mt Cootha (Brisbane) so I'm hoping its not as bad as the hill heading up to the TV stations cause if it is i'm not sure how I would manage to get close to a 56.xx.

[MiddleChild]

Well tonight was time trial night.

10kms in 41.23 - from the above calculator that gives me a 59.09 C2S.

Finally shifted the chesty flu and ran well. Even had a few decent hills in this run.

Really didn't think I could get back to such a good position after the last two weeks.

Also found out that I am moving to Queensland the week after - so this really will be the last C2S for some time and as I am 36 my last chance to finally break the magic 60 mins.

I have my race day outfit; I have my motivational music; training is back on schedule - I only have one last quandary.

Every year that I run from red I try to be the last red bib to cross the start line. I don't like the crowd and prefer to give them all a two minute head start so that I might have a little bit of space in the first half k. My PB is 62.29. Would I be better off getting in early and being at the front of the wave? Anyone with any experience on the differences would be much greatly appreciated.

Edited by MiddleChild, 31 July 2011 - 11:08 PM.

[Rainlover]

Good idea to be at the front of the red. This should give you a good start. When I got my first 60 this is where I got it from and is the same for many others - right up the front of red and just placed behind prefered. The preferred and elite are away prettuy quickly so traffic is pretty manageable. Good luck it will b a top achievement.

[Ruddiger]

Rainlover, on 31 July 2011 - 11:54 PM, said:

Good idea to be at the front of the red. This should give you a good start. When I got my first 60 this is where I got it from and is the same for many others - right up the front of red and just placed behind prefered. The preferred and elite are away prettuy quickly so traffic is pretty manageable. Good luck it will b a top achievement.

How early do you need to arrive to be close enough to the front for this plan to actually work?  It seems like the earlier wake-up, and inability to use the toilet or warm up properly because you grabbed your spot at 7am would offset much of the advantage.  And 7am might not be early enough anyway!  

This is my 2nd C2S and I was planning on doing as MiddleChild did (ie last red bib to cross), but I wonder whether the slower reds will just impede me for too long after the start.  @MiddleChild Were you able to hit your stride immediately and maintain for the whole course, or is there a lot of weaving through the back end of the reds?

ps I noticed on the race day info thing that you are asked not to arrive before 30 mins prior to start.  Is this just wishful thinking on organisers' part?

[aDrain]

Very wishful I'd say

[Rainlover]

Ruddiger, on 01 August 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

How early do you need to arrive to be close enough to the front for this plan to actually work?  It seems like the earlier wake-up, and inability to use the toilet or warm up properly because you grabbed your spot at 7am would offset much of the advantage.  And 7am might not be early enough anyway!  

This is my 2nd C2S and I was planning on doing as MiddleChild did (ie last red bib to cross), but I wonder whether the slower reds will just impede me for too long after the start.  @MiddleChild Were you able to hit your stride immediately and maintain for the whole course, or is there a lot of weaving through the back end of the reds?

ps I noticed on the race day info thing that you are asked not to arrive before 30 mins prior to start.  Is this just wishful thinking on organisers' part?

I got there relatively early and yes the bathroom and warming up is an issue but my butterflys just took over as I knew I was ready to go under 60mins and then forgot about those things. I hydrated myself very well  in the days leading up to and the day before so didn't go overboard with that on the morning and so no pressing need to go to bathroom. At the end of the day a bit of discomfort did not deter me and goal achieved. Good luck and hope you get there in under 60. Whatever the result, enjoy the day.

[nite_time_runner]

Having gone a few mins over 60 for the last two years, sub 60 is the goal this year. I would be tempted to say you must start at the front of the red pack, but on another thread, people have gone sub 60 from BoP - so it really is down to what ability we have to work with! Some of us ( me included! ) might just need that extra minute from being at the front - any consensus on what time we should get there to be in the front quarter or third?

Mara training will take a back seat* for the next two weeks,so some quicker more specific training can be done to tune up for this. Pre race hydration will be better this year so i wont stop for any drinks, nor will I be bursting at the seams needing the bathroom with 30mins before the start.

* back seat will like that in a small hatchback, not a Tarago - mara training is not going away too far - the long run will still be there, but i will be doing my local C2S race loopa couple of times.

[MiddleChild]

nite_time_runner, on 02 August 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

it really is down to what ability we have to work with!

If only people would keep to the left unless overtaking - or try not to run 8 abreast!!!
My first marathon was Sydney 2006 when Julius Maritim left the start about 2 or 3 minutes after the gun; ran down the entire field and finished 2 mins ahead of second. That's pretty inspiring! I have tried to be closer to the front in previous years, but never found clear ground till about the 6k mark regardless.
I am hoping that red bibers will understand if I come up behind them and politely ask them to move aside?

[nite_time_runner]

MC - i think everybody understands if they are asked to move aside. Personally i find the sprint/collapse runner the most frustrating. You politely overtake, after waiting a few seconds to get strides in synch and find a few metres clear space. They then sprint ahead, over take you, and slow down....repeat!

[Quinkin]

MiddleChild, on 02 August 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

I am hoping that red bibers will understand if I come up behind them and politely ask them to move aside?

I am red bibber. You'll have to work hard to catch me, and then race me for it, champion. ;-)

Seriously, I think you'd be better off getting to the front of the red group, arrive at least an hour before the race. Expect to do a lot of weaving and side-stepping in the race, that is part and parcel of the City to Surf.

Edited by Quinkin, 02 August 2011 - 07:42 PM.

[MiddleChild]

I guess the underlying fact is that anyone in the red group has worked hard to get there so they deserve the benefit of the first start.
But this should also mean that this group of people (more than anyone else on the course) should also be the best to "self-seed" in their own start group.
If I run 60:00 I might be in the top 1000. Therefore it would be unfair of me to push my way to the very front and be starting in the first 500 or so. If you get my theory. If you are a red bib and you know that you will only be scraping in the qualifying time, then surely you would look to start towards the back of the group??
After the frustration of the SMH Half a few months ago, what I am most looking forward to is a four lane course.

[edit for spelling]

Edited by MiddleChild, 03 August 2011 - 07:51 AM.

[Quinkin]

MiddleChild, on 03 August 2011 - 07:50 AM, said:

I guess the underlying fact is that anyone in the red group has worked hard to get there so they deserve the benefit of the first start.
But this should also mean that this group of people (more than anyone else on the course) should also be the best to "self-seed" in their own start group.
If I run 60:00 I might be in the top 1000. Therefore it would be unfair of me to push my way to the very front and be starting in the first 500 or so. If you get my theory. If you are a red bib and you know that you will only be scraping in the qualifying time, then surely you would look to start towards the back of the group??
After the frustration of the SMH Half a few months ago, what I am most looking forward to is a four lane course.

[edit for spelling]

For the red bib, it's first in best dressed to keep warm in old T-shirts you throw away close to the start.

The first 500 comprise largely those who are preffered, who get to start in front of the red bibs, that was under 55:00 last year. A time over 58:00 wouldn't have got you in the top 1000 last year.

It's a crowded race, exponentially more crowded than the SMH half. I get there early, get up as far to the front of the red group as I can, but realise I'm going to be in for some dodging early in the race. The crowds are part of the C2S, the attraction of running in the world's biggest fun run. A few sub 4 minute kilometres will get you some reasonably clear running after a while.

With a 41:00 10km time trial I think you deserve to be up near the front of the red group.

Edited by Quinkin, 03 August 2011 - 07:36 PM.

[johnnyboyrun]

I get there about 30 mins before, have a 10-15min warm up, then jump in and self seed my self... Unfortunately alot of people kid themselves and push right up the front even though they will get trampled. Pushing in may seem rude but its better then running over the top of people.

[Long Arms]

at the pace you are running allow 1min 30sec to be added on to current 10km form on flat course, but allow for significant pick up in speed over final 4km. It really depends on how much you have left in your legs as to how much you can pick up the pace at that point. A 60min City to Surfer could potentially run the final 4km in around 16 minutes, with the significant elevation drop and the sniff of the finish line. Thus hitting the 10km mark in 43.30 will give you a very good shot of sub 60 minutes. A split of 44.00 will still give you a chance; 44.30 will be starting to push it a bit but still possible. 45.00.... you will want to be feeling very strong at the 10km mark; it has been done!

[MiddleChild]

Quinkin, on 03 August 2011 - 09:17 AM, said:

It's a crowded race, exponentially more crowded than the SMH half.

At the SMH Half I started towards the back and managed to find some clear space for the first km which I ran in 3:45.
By the three k mark I was at 13:45 and very frustrated by the narrow path.

The C2S has the great advantage that the first few kms are either very wide road or uphill. The wide road gives you room to move and the uphill helps to thin the field. I have always been strong on the uphill so hopefully I can do most of my overtaking there. Hence my previous question about the right or left side of the King's Cross tunnel - as this is my only concern for a bottle neck.

I think that I will wait out the start and be the last red bib to cross the start line. I'm all about the net time.

[Quinkin]

I'm just going to enjoy it, no pressure.

Edited by Quinkin, 04 August 2011 - 06:08 PM.

[Ruddiger]

I'm just going to enjoy it by getting the best net time I can, no matter the cost.  I might even wear blinkers.

[Quinkin]

Ruddiger, on 04 August 2011 - 07:43 PM, said:

I'm just going to enjoy it by getting the best net time I can, no matter the cost.  I might even wear blinkers.

You could dress up as a Clydesdale.

[johnnyboyrun]

No sub 60 for me this year. I have had a crappy cold all week. I have tried to run but have got nothing. I will still rock up to the start line and enjoy my day though as its always fun. Its a shame because i had some good 5km, 10km times in the lead up and was on target for a 57-58min
Good luck to all in the quest for sub 60min

[NKOTB]

My training suggests I am not going to make sub 60 so hoping for a PB this year and get closer to target.

New_Kid

[johnnyboyrun]

NKOTB, on 11 August 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

My training suggests I am not going to make sub 60 so hoping for a PB this year and get closer to target.

New_Kid

You never know with these things... Just aim to get close and finish strong!!!!

[johnnyboyrun]

How did everyone go?

I got there with a 59.15ish. Was aiming for a 57-58 as that what my training was suggesting. I couldnt run for the week leading up as i had the flu so was happy cracking it, although a little dissapointed. Thought it was all over going up HB Hill, the clock said 31.35....then when i got to 10km mark it was 42.05 and i thought i was a chance. Was a good day as it always is

[aDrain]

Missed it again

[ARC]

Having had very low expectations that I had any chance of sub 60 from middle of the blue start I was pretty happy at coming in 58.10! Pretty clear to heart-break hill and then it got very crowded for the rest of the race. I think with clear road and able to take shortest line I could have been below 57. Not sure I'll do it again next year having cracked sub-60 on the debut. Some of the striders 10k's are much easier in terms of crowd levels!

[meinmuk]

I was doing my first C2S, and didn't expect to go under 60, based on lack of hill training and time predictors. I started at the back of the red group and spent the whole race passing people and think that I came in at about 60:40 (took me 2:30 to cross the start line). If I'd been keener and lined up further forward in the start corral I probably could have gotten under 60. The race was more fun and heartbreak hill was easier than I expected. I especially enjoyed the downhill finish. I'll do it again at some point.

[NKOTB]

I finished at about 64mins and about 40secs slower than last year. Will have to go back to drawing board about me preparation.  
No real excuses really.

New_Kid