237 replies to this topic

[RunningKid]

In the middle of my training for my last run I decided to drastically change my diet from eating meat every single day to cutting meat out of my diet completely. This wasn't something that I had just decided on the spur of the moment, it was something that I had been thinking about for a very long time. I didn't do it for health reasons, although that is a great reason to become vegetarian, I did it for ethical reasons. I won't go in depth into my reasoning but a big part of making this decision was my past jobs that I had worked in.

There have been two significant changes to my life since changing diets. The first was my daily headaches completely disappeared, I have not had one headache since becoming a vegetarian! The second thing that changed was my sleeping habits, almost every night I would have to take sleeping tablets to get to sleep, sometimes I would be up for hours even though my body was completely worn out. Once my diet changed I no longer need to take those pills and I am sleeping like a normal person again!

There are many myths that people think are true with Vegetarian diets such as you can't get enough protein or quality protein, you can't get enough calcium or even the myth that a vegetarian diet is not a balanced diet. Like I said, these are complete myths and not true at all. I could easily copy and paste some facts about all of this but I would rather you do a bit of research yourself, you will be surprised about what you find just by reading! A lot of well known athletes around the world are vegetarians such as one of the greatest NBA players Robert Parish to Dave Scott who holds the record for the most Iron man victories ever. Remember Billie Jean King, one of the greatest Tennis Players ever who even went up against a male, former men's Wimbledon champion Bobby Riggs and won. She was a vegetarian and still is!

In my field of ultra running, I didn't really expect to see that many ultra runners are vegetarian or vegan but there is and there is a lot of them! Most of the stories that I have come across explain that once they cut meat completely out of their diet they have only improved in their running and endurance. A lot of short distance or marathon runners have had their personal best times after switching diets.

When I was training for my last big run I had a lot of problems, not because I was a meat eater but just unforeseen circumstances that pushed me way behind scheduled. My final training run was 80 km, this was when I was well into a vegetarian lifestyle, the very next day I didn't feel the slightest bit of soreness in my legs, I could have easily ran that run again, my recovery time was through the roof! After that I don't think anyone at all could ever convince me that my new diet could be detrimental to my training or my health.

Edited by RunningKid, 13 April 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Bellthorpe]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I congratulate you for taking an ethical position, and for supporting WSPA.

Quote

Once I made the decision to change my diet I got a bit of criticism from friends and even family members ...

I can never understand this kind of response, to anything one does that doesn't impact others in any way. Even to running itself. I don't cop it myself, but I think that's because people can anticipate my response.

[RunningKid]

Bellthorpe, on 11 October 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

I'm not a vegetarian, but I congratulate you for taking an ethical position, and for supporting WSPA.




I can never understand this kind of response, to anything one does that doesn't impact others in any way. Even to running itself. I don't cop it myself, but I think that's because people can anticipate my response.

Thank you very much Bellthorpe! Haha maybe I should be a bit more aggressive in my response to those people as well!

[Davo]

No, just ignore 'em, Andrew. They just don't get it and they never will. If you argue with them it will only make them argue back all the more. Have the courage of your convictions and don't let them get to you.

[BEN-HUR]

Thanks for sharing your experience Andrew. You have taken a positive step towards a cleaner body & a cleaner planet. CoolRunning itself has had emotive discussions in the past surrounding the issues between a plant based diet & a meat based one. It sometimes will happen - hence you're not alone in that aspect. You just need to make informed choices & be prepared to give informed answers... you have made your choice & others are free to make theirs. I don't get challenged on my plant based diet anymore but if I do, I just outline some facts to substantiate my position... & wish them the best.

Education of others as to dispelling the myths as well as clarifying the many benefits of a plant based diet I see worthwhile due to the promotion & subsequent reliance on animal based products.

[RunningKid]

Davo, on 11 October 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

No, just ignore 'em, Andrew. They just don't get it and they never will. If you argue with them it will only make them argue back all the more. Have the courage of your convictions and don't let them get to you.

Thanks Davo, sometimes that is the best way to deal with certain people!

[RunningKid]

BEN-HUR, on 11 October 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

Thanks for sharing your experience Andrew. You have taken a positive step towards a cleaner body & a cleaner planet. CoolRunning itself has had emotive discussions in the past surrounding the issues between a plant based diet & a meat based one. It sometimes will happen - hence you're not alone in that aspect. You just need to make informed choices & be prepared to give informed answers... you have made your choice & others are free to make theirs. I don't get challenged on my plant based diet anymore but if I do, I just outline some facts to substantiate my position... & wish them the best.

Education of others as to dispelling the myths as well as clarifying the many benefits of a plant based diet I see worthwhile due to the promotion & subsequent reliance on animal based products.

Thank you very much for your feedback! Education is an excellent tool!

[Kibbs]

I've been a vegetarian since I was around 7 years old, although I can't say miracles happen from making that sort of decision some people find they actually can't tolerate foods most have eaten their whole lives. Going from a meat based diet to a plant based diet however is a fairly major step, so make sure you do it appropriately and still ascertain all the necessary foods needed in your diet. Goodluck and enjoy the range of new meals you'll experiment with over the coming years!

Personal favorites: sanitarium vegie burgers (available at coles etc) and organic dried bananas (look terrible but taste good and great for training only remember they include fiber! Available from health food stores).

[RunningKid]

Kibbs, on 11 October 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I've been a vegetarian since I was around 7 years old, although I can't say miracles happen from making that sort of decision some people find they actually can't tolerate foods most have eaten their whole lives. Going from a meat based diet to a plant based diet however is a fairly major step, so make sure you do it appropriately and still ascertain all the necessary foods needed in your diet. Goodluck and enjoy the range of new meals you'll experiment with over the coming years!

Personal favorites: sanitarium vegie burgers (available at coles etc) and organic dried bananas (look terrible but taste good and great for training only remember they include fiber! Available from health food stores).

Thanks a lot for that, it has taken a bit of time to find certain foods that I like but also a well balanced diet for my chosen sport being Ultra Running! I also love the sanitarium vegie burgers

[tim]

For some reason this thread reminds me of a story........

once upon a time there were 3 vegetarians and they liked running together.  Let's call them mellum.  Then this band of angry meat eaters came and were annoyed at Mellum's enjoyment of life and running and said you guys are soft.  Let's call this meat eating group 'GBH'.  So to prove how soft vegetarian runners are GBH challenged Mellum to a race.  The race was the 100 mile at Glasshouse Mountains.  Mellum destroyed GBH so badly that GBH immediately disbanded and were never to be seen as a group again.  Where as mellum continue to run and frolic on the mountain trails.

the moral of the story is that vego ultra runners rule!!

good luck on your journey Andrew.

there are also some pretty good threads on vegetarianism on this board.  Some quite heated.

[Teeks]

thanks for your story Andrew, some interesting observations.  I have sent it to my partner who is a mega carnivore and constantly has headaches, can't get out of bed in the morning and generally feels crap most of the time (he also doesn't exercise regularly).  

I am vegan (been predominately vegetarian most of my life) and I have been trying to get him to reduce his meat intake as an experiment but while he likes the idea of doing it he just cant seem to stop eating so much meat!  I find now that occasionally I crave some animal product so I do have something occasionally, every time I do however I really don't enjoy it and the after effects aren't the most pleasant (especially for dairy!).  

Good to know a lot of ultra marathon runners take this dietary approach as I am tackling my first ultra next year, hopefully I will survive!

I might check out some of the other threads that have been mentioned.  BTW - I make my own lentil and veggie burgers and freeze them, cheaper than buying pre-made, just cook some red lentils then chuck in whatever you like after that

[tim]

Teeks, on 12 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

............ but while he likes the idea of doing it he just cant seem to stop eating so much meat!...............

I used to eat a lot of bread and no matter how hard I tried to cut back when hungry I went for the bread.  Now I have found I have a gluten issue and eating bread just makes me sick.  So I had to stop eating it.  Now i do not even think about it when I am hungry.  I think a lot of what we eat is out of habit.  It is hard for a little while while you change that habit but once that change is done it then becomes easy.  I have been vego for 30 years and I do not see meat as food.  It just does not register to me as food when I am hungry.  I think the only way to change is to go cold cold turkey (or is that cold tofu-turkey) by taking on one of those 30 day vegetarian or vegan challenges.

[RunningKid]

tim, on 12 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

For some reason this thread reminds me of a story........

once upon a time there were 3 vegetarians and they liked running together.  Let's call them mellum.  Then this band of angry meat eaters came and were annoyed at Mellum's enjoyment of life and running and said you guys are soft.  Let's call this meat eating group 'GBH'.  So to prove how soft vegetarian runners are GBH challenged Mellum to a race.  The race was the 100 mile at Glasshouse Mountains.  Mellum destroyed GBH so badly that GBH immediately disbanded and were never to be seen as a group again.  Where as mellum continue to run and frolic on the mountain trails.

the moral of the story is that vego ultra runners rule!!

good luck on your journey Andrew.

there are also some pretty good threads on vegetarianism on this board.  Some quite heated.

Thanks so much for that story, it put a smile on my face

[tim]

AndrewHedgman, on 12 October 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

Thanks so much for that story, it put a smile on my face

remembering it always makes me happy

oh i remember a thread that went off on coolrunning a few years ago and I just found the link.  All the person asked was "I'm thinking of going vegetarian but I don't like beans".  It may have been cleaned up by the moderators because from memory it got a little heated but I have not time atm to read through.  Here is the link for anyone interested  http://www.coolrunni...showtopic=13163

[RunningKid]

Teeks, on 12 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

thanks for your story Andrew, some interesting observations.  I have sent it to my partner who is a mega carnivore and constantly has headaches, can't get out of bed in the morning and generally feels crap most of the time (he also doesn't exercise regularly).  

I am vegan (been predominately vegetarian most of my life) and I have been trying to get him to reduce his meat intake as an experiment but while he likes the idea of doing it he just cant seem to stop eating so much meat!  I find now that occasionally I crave some animal product so I do have something occasionally, every time I do however I really don't enjoy it and the after effects aren't the most pleasant (especially for dairy!).  

Good to know a lot of ultra marathon runners take this dietary approach as I am tackling my first ultra next year, hopefully I will survive!

I might check out some of the other threads that have been mentioned.  BTW - I make my own lentil and veggie burgers and freeze them, cheaper than buying pre-made, just cook some red lentils then chuck in whatever you like after that

Thanks Teeks! Hopefully your partner will try it out for a bit, I bet he will see the differences in no time at all! Good luck with your first Ultra, you will feel so amazing once you get over that finish line! I like the idea of making my own vege burgers, I think I will give that a go

[tim]

actually it was the thread I linked that gave me the idea for setting up a support group for vego runners called plantpowered which is still running today here http://www.facebook....112348152142248

[Davo]

tim, on 12 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

For some reason this thread reminds me of a story........

once upon a time there were 3 vegetarians and they liked running together.  Let's call them mellum.  Then this band of angry meat eaters came and were annoyed at Mellum's enjoyment of life and running and said you guys are soft.  Let's call this meat eating group 'GBH'.  So to prove how soft vegetarian runners are GBH challenged Mellum to a race.  The race was the 100 mile at Glasshouse Mountains.  Mellum destroyed GBH so badly that GBH immediately disbanded and were never to be seen as a group again.  Where as mellum continue to run and frolic on the mountain trails.

the moral of the story is that vego ultra runners rule!!

I remember that!
But I always thought that Mellum's victory that day was due to the stellar support of their female crew, who is also a vegetarian, and who doesn't post on cr any more. We all miss her.
(There were also a couple of other hangers-on too, but they're not worth mentioning.)

[Horrie]

tim, on 12 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

For some reason this thread reminds me of a story........

once upon a time there were 3 vegetarians and they liked running together.  Let's call them mellum.  Then this band of angry meat eaters came and were annoyed at Mellum's enjoyment of life and running and said you guys are soft.  Let's call this meat eating group 'GBH'.  So to prove how soft vegetarian runners are GBH challenged Mellum to a race.  The race was the 100 mile at Glasshouse Mountains.  Mellum destroyed GBH so badly that GBH immediately disbanded and were never to be seen as a group again.  Where as mellum continue to run and frolic on the mountain trails.

Still living in the past T Bone. That was quite a few years ago. GBH has been reduced to BH when we manage to catch up. But we have helped each other to strong finishes at C2K and Badwater in the last 2 years. And it looks as though Mellum has been reduced to one. Lucky he is made of tough Irish stock.

[redbackrun]

tv show on now abc2  "kill it, cook it, eat it" would turn many to became vegetarian.

[ashima]

tim, on 12 October 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

actually it was the thread I linked that gave me the idea for setting up a support group for vego runners called plantpowered which is still running today here http://www.facebook....112348152142248

Thanks for the link Tim, i just headed over to fb and liked it:) im a newbie vegan so i need all the support i can get lol

[undercover brother]

good on you andrew.

tim, on 12 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

once upon a time there were 3 vegetarians and they liked running together.  Let's call them mellum.  Then this band of angry meat eaters came and were annoyed at Mellum's enjoyment of life and running and said you guys are soft.  Let's call this meat eating group 'GBH'.

attached is the glasshouse 100 mile mellum finishers photo from 2007 (and GBH finishers photo for comparison).
seems like there is a random meat eater that worked his way into the picture.

incidentally just returned from a trip to central europe.
vegos would struggle there and vegans starve.
would i be correct in saying that aussies are pretty well ahead of the vego game in a world sense?
maybe india being one of the few examples of a more vego friendly place?

Attached Files

•  GH 2007 finishers mellum.jpg   808.58K   64 downloads
•  GH 2007 finishers GBH.jpg   1.28MB   49 downloads

[Davo]

Are you sure it was '07, UCB?
I thought it was Sept of '06

[cjr]

I don't eat a huge amount of meat and would like to go vegetarian. I travel a lot internationally for work and would say that AU rates pretty well. In Europe recently I had to attend several functions and sit down dinners and lunches where I was a guest and there was no vegetarian option at all. At one meal even the salads had meat in them. I would have had to just eat bread rolls. It would have been very awkward in some of the situations given that I was a guest.
India is probably the best - before every meal I got asked if I would like "vegetarin or non-vegetarian" and half the people at the table were always vegetarian

[undercover brother]

Davo, on 13 October 2011 - 07:26 AM, said:

Are you sure it was '07, UCB?
I thought it was Sept of '06

the photo is from 2007.
mellum was born in 2005 as documented in the museum of mellum.

[Blue Dog]

I am watching you guys.  

[tayebeh]

Good luck Andrew, I have been vegeterian/and lately vegan pretty much in all my running life! It is great pleasure to see more of us around! Hoping that one day they stop serving snakes/jellie and animal_based soups in check points, and worst of all a meat_based BBQ at the end of ultras (I find it hard to see how people eat those burgers/sausages at the end of a 100k!)

[BobbySmith]

BEN-HUR, on 11 October 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

a plant based diet & a meat based one.

Most people eat meat as part of a balanced diet (hopefully in line with all the recommended food pyramids published by organisations around the world) with it being a lot less than non-meat based products. So is it correct to call a diet that includes meat "meat based"?

http://www.google.co...l1109l3-2.1l3l0

[tim]

Blue Dog, on 13 October 2011 - 07:52 AM, said:

I am watching you guys.  

so i get what the B and the H sttod for in GBH but not what the G stood for.  Is that dog backwards

taybeh I have found ultras good for vego food.  Glasshouse, GNW and trailwalker all have vege burgers.  I try not to judge what people eat at the end of a race since I am partial to lots of beer and potato scollops with extra salt.  I find the beer helps my kidneys work.

[BEN-HUR]

BobbySmith, on 13 October 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

Most people eat meat as part of a balanced diet (hopefully in line with all the recommended food pyramids published by organisations around the world) with it being a lot less than non-meat based products. So is it correct to call a diet that includes meat "meat based"?

Pedantry aside Bobby, my point was in relation to a diet with plant foods & a diet with meat. It is the way you wish to view the phrase. Some people's diet are based around a meat dish every day, some have less amount & at not so regular intervals - hence each persuasion is a diet containing meat & the phrase meat based doesn't specifically allude to the volume & regularity of meat consumption in the context used. However, with that said, I believe that a diet based around a meat dish everyday is less healthy than a diet containing a smaller amount of meat & this diet is potentially less healthy than a diet with no meat. That said, I am fully aware that there are healthy people whose diet contains little meat & there are not so healthy vegetarians - good health is a holistic lifestyle endeavor.

[Davo]

Blue Dog, on 13 October 2011 - 07:52 AM, said:

I am watching you guys.  

Is this the precursor to another grudge match coming up?

[tim]

Davo, on 13 October 2011 - 09:44 AM, said:

Is this the precursor to another grudge match coming up?

Great North Walk!

Who is the only person to start every race and finish every race?

Whippet Man.

A vegetarian!  

he can even finish after stopping and bring people back to life.  He once carried a runner for 20km to safety.

Whippet is way cool

He walked on the water
And swam on the land
He would tell these stories
And people would listen
He is really cool
If you were blind or lame
You just went to Whippet
And he would put his hands on you
And you would be healed
That's so cool

[BobbySmith]

BEN-HUR, on 13 October 2011 - 09:32 AM, said:

Pedantry aside Bobby, my point was in relation to a diet with plant foods & a diet with meat. It is the way you wish to view the phrase.

No pedantry intended, aside or otherwise. You're quite right it's the way you wish to view the phrase and to say someone who eats meat is eating a meat based diet is incorrect, as meat only makes up a small proportion of the diet in most cases, although I agree it sounds good if you're a vegetarian hoping to get you're point across.  It could just as easily be argued that it would be more accurate to say most peoples diets are based around a wheat dish every day, ie breakfast cereal, bread, pasta etc, then again there are those who argue we shouldn't be eating wheat, each to their own I guess.

http://www.letsrun.c...=4160580&page=3

http://www.wheatbell...gh-hit-the-fan/

[tayebeh]

tim, on 13 October 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

so i get what the B and the H sttod for in GBH but not what the G stood for.  Is that dog backwards

taybeh I have found ultras good for vego food.  Glasshouse, GNW and trailwalker all have vege burgers.  I try not to judge what people eat at the end of a race since I am partial to lots of beer and potato scollops with extra salt.  I find the beer helps my kidneys work.

Geeeee I didn't find veg burgers in Melb Oxfam this year and am not suprised as they promote getting donations to buy animals for remote African viallages!!!! How on earth they think this is sustainable eating is unknown to me! I am not judging people in a bad way (actually a stomach that can handle burgers after a 100 k must be out of rock )

[BEN-HUR]

BEN-HUR, on 11 October 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

CoolRunning itself has had emotive discussions in the past surrounding the issues between a plant based diet & a meat based one.

Bobby, the above is the phrase "meat based one" (which you take issue with)... in its context (i.e. CoolRunning discussions between the two). You decided to take it out of its sentence context & use the following (convenience by chance to get a "point across"?)...

BEN-HUR, on 11 October 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

a plant based diet & a meat based one.

I've provided my reason & it wasn't in any way used to get any "point across", other than to point to the fact there have been discussion on this forum on the two persuasions... of which one side tends to get more strung up on certain issues than the other (for whatever reason). End.

[Ames43]

For ethical reasons I've been feeling uneasy about eating meat for a little while. Last week I no longer felt comfortable eating meat and have decided not to do so. I'm enjoying reading this post and others, as well as researching the health benefits, risks and of course new recipies. Even just one week in I'm already enjoying foods like chick peas, lentils, cous cous and beans that I wouldn't have ever dreamed of touching before.

I wouldn't say I've made a decision to "become a vegetarian" and I don't know if this is a permanent change or one that is simply right for this stage in my life. I must admit I'm a little shocked - I've always enjoyed eating meat and had lived with a vegetarian who I thought ate "disgusting" foods.

Quite simply I've made a decision to not eat anything where it means an animal has died. So far it's working for me and I'm finding that I'm eating healthier because I'm making consicous decisions about what I eat, rather than just grabbing what ever is around. It's far better to have a bag of almonds in my handbag and have a handful when I'm feeling peckish rather than pulling into a petrol station for a sausage roll.

[RunningKid]

redbackrun, on 12 October 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

tv show on now abc2  "kill it, cook it, eat it" would turn many to became vegetarian.

I saw a little bit of that show last night, reminds me a lot of the job's I worked in, hence why I became vegetarian!

undercover brother, on 13 October 2011 - 07:08 AM, said:

good on you andrew.


attached is the glasshouse 100 mile mellum finishers photo from 2007 (and GBH finishers photo for comparison).
seems like there is a random meat eater that worked his way into the picture.

incidentally just returned from a trip to central europe.
vegos would struggle there and vegans starve.
would i be correct in saying that aussies are pretty well ahead of the vego game in a world sense?
maybe india being one of the few examples of a more vego friendly place?

Thank you I know a few vegetarians and vegans here in Aus and haven't lived here that long so I imagine there are a few! That photo is very funny haha!

[RunningKid]

cjr, on 13 October 2011 - 07:26 AM, said:

I don't eat a huge amount of meat and would like to go vegetarian. I travel a lot internationally for work and would say that AU rates pretty well. In Europe recently I had to attend several functions and sit down dinners and lunches where I was a guest and there was no vegetarian option at all. At one meal even the salads had meat in them. I would have had to just eat bread rolls. It would have been very awkward in some of the situations given that I was a guest.
India is probably the best - before every meal I got asked if I would like "vegetarin or non-vegetarian" and half the people at the table were always vegetarian

I could imagine feeling a bit awkward having to tell people that in those circumstances but sometimes you have to (if your vegetarian), I'm sure once you do it a couple of times you will feel fine about it and I'm sure the reaction won't be bad

[RunningKid]

tayebeh, on 13 October 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

Good luck Andrew, I have been vegeterian/and lately vegan pretty much in all my running life! It is great pleasure to see more of us around! Hoping that one day they stop serving snakes/jellie and animal_based soups in check points, and worst of all a meat_based BBQ at the end of ultras (I find it hard to see how people eat those burgers/sausages at the end of a 100k!)

Thanks Tayebeh! That would be great if they stopped with those sorts of foods at the checkpoints!

[RunningKid]

Ames43, on 13 October 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

For ethical reasons I've been feeling uneasy about eating meat for a little while. Last week I no longer felt comfortable eating meat and have decided not to do so. I'm enjoying reading this post and others, as well as researching the health benefits, risks and of course new recipies. Even just one week in I'm already enjoying foods like chick peas, lentils, cous cous and beans that I wouldn't have ever dreamed of touching before.

I wouldn't say I've made a decision to "become a vegetarian" and I don't know if this is a permanent change or one that is simply right for this stage in my life. I must admit I'm a little shocked - I've always enjoyed eating meat and had lived with a vegetarian who I thought ate "disgusting" foods.

Quite simply I've made a decision to not eat anything where it means an animal has died. So far it's working for me and I'm finding that I'm eating healthier because I'm making consicous decisions about what I eat, rather than just grabbing what ever is around. It's far better to have a bag of almonds in my handbag and have a handful when I'm feeling peckish rather than pulling into a petrol station for a sausage roll.

Thanks for your post I'm the same, I used to run into a McDonalds or Hungry Jacks if I got a craving but now I walk past those places without looking twice (or at all). It's little things like that which seems to have a huge impact on a healthy diet!

[BobbySmith]

BEN-HUR, on 13 October 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Bobby, the above is the phrase "meat based one" (which you take issue with)... in its context (i.e. CoolRunning discussions between the two). You decided to take it out of its sentence context & use the following (convenience by chance to get a "point across"?)...


I've provided my reason & it wasn't in any way used to get any "point across", other than to point to the fact there have been discussion on this forum on the two persuasions... of which one side tends to get more strung up on certain issues than the other (for whatever reason). End.

That’s all very well, but I simply asked the question “is it correct to call a diet that includes meat "meat based"?” while suggesting the reasons why not.  

When next discussing the subject, in whatever context, you, or anyone else so inclined, may wish to consider that someone who eats meat is not eating a meat based diet and it’s incorrect to refer to it as such.  Perhaps vegetarian and non-vegetarian may be more appropriate because you either are or you ain’t, there’s no in between. End.

[Bellthorpe]

It certainly is 'meat based', in that meat is the staple. The other bits, vegetables, pasta and so on change from day to day for most people, but the presence of some form of meat is a given.

[SurfStrider]

AndrewHedgman, on 13 October 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

Thanks Tayebeh! That would be great if they stopped with those sorts of foods at the checkpoints!

Sorry Andrew and Tayebeh, but I would have to say that your requirement of not allowing jelly/snakes at checkpoints is pretty unreasonable.  Sure I understand that there is geletin in those products, but why should everyone else have to conform to your eating requirements, when it is hard to suggest that they really impose any difficulty on you (they still exist regardless of whether they are visible at any point of time to you).

I also think it is unreasonable to suggest that people couldn't have a bbq at the end which served meat (I do think they should have a vegetarian option and that if that should be cooked on a separate surface - aluminium foil or those teflon covers work fantastically), but at least in that situation there is some odour which may be offensive, but even so, the BO of another person may be offensive to someone, but nobody has the right to suggest a certain person can't be around as it offends their delicate sense of smell, or perhaps they are of a different political persuasion or religious persuasion.  

I just think that everybody needs to be tolerant and accepting of each others beliefs regardless of which side of the fence you sit on.

[RunningKid]

SurfStrider, on 14 October 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

Sorry Andrew and Tayebeh, but I would have to say that your requirement of not allowing jelly/snakes at checkpoints is pretty unreasonable.  Sure I understand that there is geletin in those products, but why should everyone else have to conform to your eating requirements, when it is hard to suggest that they really impose any difficulty on you (they still exist regardless of whether they are visible at any point of time to you).

I also think it is unreasonable to suggest that people couldn't have a bbq at the end which served meat (I do think they should have a vegetarian option and that if that should be cooked on a separate surface - aluminium foil or those teflon covers work fantastically), but at least in that situation there is some odour which may be offensive, but even so, the BO of another person may be offensive to someone, but nobody has the right to suggest a certain person can't be around as it offends their delicate sense of smell, or perhaps they are of a different political persuasion or religious persuasion.  

I just think that everybody needs to be tolerant and accepting of each others beliefs regardless of which side of the fence you sit on.

I don't think anyone said to get rid of the meat at the end, all Tayebeh said was she doesn't know how people can feel like eating that at the end of a 100 km run, nothing about getting rid of it. Regarding the Gelatin lollies, that was just a spur of the moment comment in reply. I don't necessarily think they should get rid of them, it wasn't really a serious comment and I would never campaign against that ...

[iRonnie]

Have any of you ever seen the movie Terminal City Ricochet?  Rock music is banned, so the punks are banished to the EndZone; Boomtown, which is city that has somehow been built in the sky, is collapsing and so white goods and other debri is falling from the sky; the corrupt government has messed up the "Saviour's" brain and so he keeps forgetting stuff; the town officials and Mayor are corrupt and totally control the media and food source; everyone has a TV which literally feeds them both food and information (propaganda)- no TV no food. The "food" is recycled human shit straight put their toilet;  meat has become an underground currency and meat pushers -some of whom are government officials- are much like drug pushers doing deals in back alleys etc. Meat use is rampant in the Endzone where the rebels end up. Indeed, one guy betrays his friend for a steak. The main medical practioner in the town spends his time removing the tops of people's heads so as to attach electrodes to adjust any free thinkers' thinking.  The book, 1984, has heavily influenced the movie.  
tiger
So what has this got to do with this thread? Just keep in mind that sometimes you vegans might just get what you want -and some.

I agree that we are now not thinking enough about why we eat certain foods.  And yea, ethics is a good reason for certain people to not eat meat, but ethics can also be a good reason to make meat available for those that choose to eat meat. Depends how much you respect true democracy.  Meat is a proven staple for humans. People don't eat meat because of some blood lust. Meatworks are watched very carefully and to eat meat is no more immoral than a tiger bringing down another animal for food to survive. Humans can behave without malice and unnecessary cruelty when killing for food. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot wrong with the meat industry (feedlots) but it is not necessarily the supplier of immoral contraband that you make it out to be. It is not sport Andrew.

You say that people are taking a crack at you for being a vegan.

Quote

Once I made the decision to change my diet I got a bit of criticism from friends and even family members, I still don't know why they thought it was appropriate to criticize me for this decision as it had no impact on their lives what so ever and I wasn't telling them how they should eat. Hell, 98% of my friends and family are meat eaters and I don't think less of them one bit, that would never cross my mind to think that way!

Sometimes people think you are, in a round about way, taking a crack at meat eaters by not doing as they do. Indeed, you are more or less are saying in your posts above that to eat meat is unethical. That and your choice to not eat meat will make some people defensive. Yes that defensiveness can be irrational.  This may well be why some people have a crack at you.

Also some of the more extreme vegans have been very critical of people who include meat in their meals. I choose to base my meals on  mainly complex carbohydrates supplemented with very little meat.   Some vegans would be, and have been, very critical of that choice.

i think i can relate to you Andrew. i have tried to give up smoking in the past and had the usual putdowns.  Indeed, i was once thrown our of a party for having a return crack at a group of dickheads who kept harping on that, among other things, running was "for fags". (Note: homosexuality doesn't bother me -as such). I had race teh next day and declined to drink beers. The lads took offence.  All you can do is be true to yourself.  And remember the people criticising you aren't just being mean they are being put in a position to question their own meat eating or behaviours.  Defensiveness often manifests in different ways.  All you can do is remind your friends and family that you don't think any less of them. Sometimes though you have to go your own way even if it means losing friends and having your family turn you away.

Edited by iRonnie, 14 October 2011 - 03:15 PM.

[SurfStrider]

AndrewHedgman, on 14 October 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

I don't think anyone said to get rid of the meat at the end, all Tayebeh said was she doesn't know how people can feel like eating that at the end of a 100 km run, nothing about getting rid of it. Regarding the Gelatin lollies, that was just a spur of the moment comment in reply. I don't necessarily think they should get rid of them, it wasn't really a serious comment and I would never campaign against that ...

No worries - I can understand you just made a flippant "wouldn't it be nice comment" - I just wanted to put the heads up there to be a bit careful of suggesting that a certain way should be imposed on other people, just as is the case with religion, politics, hair colour, etc

ps Tayebeh did actual say she hoped they would stop those things, to which you agreed

Quote

Hoping that one day they stop serving snakes/jellie and animal_based soups in check points, and worst of all a meat_based BBQ at the end of ultras (I find it hard to see how people eat those burgers/sausages at the end of a 100k!)

[undercover brother]

SurfStrider, on 14 October 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

I just wanted to put the heads up there to be a bit careful of suggesting that a certain way should be imposed on other people

i don't see the problem with this at all, in fact i would encourage it.
if you are doing 'the right thing' (for a whole variety of reasons) in being vegetarian then wouldn't you want others to be the same?

[iRonnie]

If you google "banning meat", you get heaps of propaganda from vegetarians/vegans wanting to impose vegetarianism on all of us.

And as usual, UCB and others encourage the imposition of his beliefs on others.
  
Sorry AndrewH. I know you are not of that ilk.

I think I am doing the "right thing" by eating a balanced, sensible diet(no takeaways etc) and would never want to see vegetarians be denied their choice to not eat meat.   What gives you the right to deny others their choices UCB?  My doctor encourages me to eat meat. Why is your opinion worth imposing on others and my doctor's advice worthless? I can't see that sensible meat consumption is hurting you.  Chances are ,if everyone was forced to eat as vegans would will, then it could well end with one hell of an ethical dilemma (bovine population explosion) and a lot of malnutrition and illness.  

Bye the way Ben Hur, if they used that lance like your avatar is welding to kill animals, there would be one hell of an outrage.   I suppose murdering people is always just and right when those being gutted are of a different mindset, religion -the enemy.  I wonder what the men, women and children that the real soldiers, who the movie Ben Hur is based on, murdered in the name of some propaganda would think of the Ben Hur-like soldier's slaughtering sprees. No doubt some experts in sophistry explained the hypocrisy and injustices away.

Edited by iRonnie, 14 October 2011 - 05:13 PM.

[SurfStrider]

undercover brother, on 14 October 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

i don't see the problem with this at all, in fact i would encourage it.
if you are doing 'the right thing' (for a whole variety of reasons) in being vegetarian then wouldn't you want others to be the same?

you may want others to do the same, but to restrict others rights to choice is very different and I do not think appropriate no matter how "right" you think you are.  

That becomes a very slippery slope in which you have appointed yourself as officiator of right and wrong - in our society laws dectate that, not individuals views on ethics, morality, etc - if you think you are so right, agitate to get the laws changed.  If you were to do that, I think there are better things that you could agitate on, but then I have no right to dictate the hierarchy on what people should agitate on to improve what is wrong in the world (if only i did )

[BEN-HUR]

iRonnie, on 14 October 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

If you google "banning meat", you get heaps of propaganda from vegetarians/vegans wanting to impose vegetarianism on all of us.

And as usual, UCB and others encourage the imposition of his beliefs on others.
  
Sorry AndrewH. I know you are not of that ilk.

I think I am doing the "right thing" by eating a balanced, sensible diet(no takeaways etc) and would never want to see vegetarians be denied their choice to not eat meat.   What gives you the right to deny others their choices UCB?  My doctor encourages me to eat meat. Why is your opinion worth imposing on others and my doctor's advice worthless? I can't see that sensible meat consumption is hurting you.  Chances are ,if everyone was forced to eat as vegans would will, then it could well end with one hell of an ethical dilemma (bovine population explosion) and a lot of malnutrition and illness.  

Bye the way Ben Hur, if they used that lance like your avatar is welding to kill animals, there would be one hell of an outrage.   I suppose murdering people is always just and right when those being gutted are of a different mindset, religion -the enemy.  I wonder what the men, women and children that the real soldiers, who the movie Ben Hur is based on, murdered in the name of some propaganda would think of the Ben Hur-like soldier's slaughtering sprees. No doubt some expert in sophistry explained the hypocrisy away.

What the.... Crikey!!! How did we get to this point? What's with the reference to me? Have some sort of security complex... some deep seated grudge you can't let go of. Take a few chill pills & don't give us all the impression that you are some paranoid nutter... oh yes... that's right, I forgot.

Here, take this...




I feel another diet thread is about to turn to the dark side from yet the same perpetrator.

Don't take any notice Andrew... there's a history here.

[dave1678]

Thanks Andrew for reminding me I need to eat more lentils.
Told some intersting stories on my $2/day vegan diet on the $2 day thread a few months ago but your story reminded of one in particular. Was out on a mulit-day 130K run and had just finished 46K of hard running on a night before dinner of quiche and salad (not enough carbs). Wanted to buy a tub of icecream and a chicken but bought a pack of lentils instead. Had a great 66K the next day.
Enjoy. I think I will continue to eat mainly a plant based diet but not set myself any rules.