127 replies to this topic

[victoralias]

There may be the occasional exception but it is quite noticable to me that those posting autobiographical and other information on this forum are not the fastest runners in the country. For example, I recently started a thread asking how long it might take to run sustainable 3 minute ks for 10k and not one respondent could answer from their own experience. And you would look in vain for a race-review on this forum given by a runner who had just won or placed- say- in the Sandown Classic, let alone an international event.

Why? Is there another forum for elites only on which they open up? Is it because talented athletes aren't by nature talented word-smiths? Some seem perfectly articulate though so you'd have to doubt this explanation. Is it because they feel it takes away from their aura of superiority to talk with anyone other than the media who can broadcast and therefore enlarge the story of their accomplishments? Is it a class thing as it is when Brad Pitt marries Jennifer Anniston or Tom Cruise marries Nicole Kidman (all divorced now sadly to say) yet none of these would even dream of dating a checkout chick or a delivery driver? Must an elite athlete, that is to ask, not generally associate or communicate with slower runners as a matter of good social form? Is it competiveness? Do they not want to give away their secrets to the opposition? But then many athletes seem quite happy to give away these secrets to running publications so probably you can scratch this option too. Is it some -or all- of these things, or is it something else? There is an explanation but what exactly is it?

The possibilties left standing so far are the "other forum", the "aura" explanation and the "class" explanation, somewhat related you would say because each is derived from the the concept of superiority and the thought that the superior must close ranks. And after all superiority is precisely the concept underlying the concept 'elite'. But you'd hate to think thats what it comes down to wouldn't you? It'd be the sort of disturbing indictment on human psychology keeps you cold at night. Is there a more innocuous or even a positive way of looking at it perhaps? Is it simply because they don't have time? Because they're too busy doing to have time to talk. But there are some people on this forum who train as hard, if not harder, than elite atheletes so I guess thats not it either. If I was an elite athlete I hope I'd be be happy to talk at length with other runners, whatever their ability. Wouldn't you? But maybe thats easy to say when you're not an elite athlete. Maybe some strange change comes over your thinking when you become really good. "Hmmm I'm not like that guy anymore - hell I guess I was never like him. I'm really good! I'd better be careful of the circles I keep. I'd better watch who I talk to." How many Hollywood celebrities felt embarassed to be seen in the company of the the guy they pumped petrol with, or the girl they waited tables with, after they achieved fame? How many felt the need to acquire a new circle of A-list friends?

Ah I'm getting carried away here. Its probably just a coincidence. Other running forums are probably filled with dialogues between 28 minute and 40 minute 10K runners. Buster Mottrams probably on one of these right now in the US talking about his feelings as he came around the final turn in the Prefontaine Classic with a guy who ran 25th in his Office's fun-run, offering him sage advice on how to finally crack a sub-20 5k. Sparkie's fast. Sparkie and Buster Mottram are probably the same person. Hey Buster Mottrams a Cool Runner! Who knew... But that means I told Buster himself that he was a crap sprinter, that I could beat him over 100 meters! Uh uh. No wonder he was short with me. I might have to go into hiding yet...

Edited by victoralias, 17 June 2007 - 07:22 PM.

[AmyJay]

hmmmm... can't help you there.
Unfortunately I'm just another one of the plebs shuffling along without much hope of hitting the 'elite' scene.
But do you really believe the class argument? I like to think us Aussies are a bit better than that (well.... I like to THINK)

But from what I've seen there's still some pretty amazing runners on this site who have heaps to offer, even if they're not considered elites.

If they were ever going to come out of the woodwork, hopefully you post will call them out.

Good luck fishing for elites...

[Matt21]

Victoralias,

Me being a non-elite runner, one of the main reasons why I like to be involved in Coolrunning forums is that it gives me the chance to communicate with others about running.  I do all my running by myself and do not have any friends or acquaintances that I can talk to about running.  Coolrunning allows me to do this. It allows me to feel like I am part of a "community".

I suppose that elites mix in training and social groups where there is plenty of focus on running.  As a result, they are less likely to feel the need to get into a place like Coolrunning. Also, they are unlikely to need the advice that many of us look for in Coolrunning. For example, tonight I searched for "marathon taper" in prep for Gold Coast on the 1 July.  This is the only information source I have. Elites would not have this problem.

I don't think there is anything sinister about elites not being in this place.

One other thing you said:  The suggestion that perhaps elites were too busy with training to have the time to be in somewhere like Coolrunning.  I think it is very likely that most of us hacks out here with wife, three young kids and full time job who need to squeeze training in either late at night or very early in the morning would have less spare time in our lives than the elite runners.

Cheers everyone.

Matt

Edited by Matt21, 16 June 2007 - 12:17 AM.

[felisaffie]

Why shouldn't elites keep to themselves. I wouldn't say it is because they are too busy. There are many hours in a day, running does not and could not take up all of them unless they were running a 24 hour race. So why should they have to. They probably have other things to devote their time to possibly unrunning related I really don't see why it should be of anybody elses business but their own.

[DrJH]

Victoralias, there are about 13000 members on Cool Running. Probably only 2000 or 3000 post regularly. When you consider there are 60000 runners just in the City to Surf, this is a pretty small proportion. I don't know how you define elite, but if you said sub-30 min 10k runners, there are a lot more 40 - 50 min runners going around. Hence as a sample we are going to catch more 'non-elite' runners.

As for your other question, I think if all goes well with your training you will be at your best within 2 years. I don't think this will be sub 30 min 10k though. It took me about 14 years. I was able to do it at 21 after trying to run as fast as I could since under 8 Little As!

And Sparkie and Mottram are definitely different people!

[FakePlasticTrees]

DrJH, on Jun 16 2007, 07:13 AM, said:

And Sparkie and Mottram are definitely different people!

I can vouch for that as well. I know Sparkie and I've seen footage of Mottram, Mottram's taller.

I think Matt21 is on the money with his post. There have been other elites on here in the past. Lee Troop has posted but then almost got in a punch up with someone. There was also the Competitive Edge and 28 Racing Team forums.

[victoralias]

felisaffie, on Jun 16 2007, 01:13 AM, said:

Why shouldn't elites keep to themselves. I wouldn't say it is because they are too busy. There are many hours in a day, running does not and could not take up all of them unless they were running a 24 hour race. So why should they have to. They probably have other things to devote their time to possibly unrunning related I really don't see why it should be of anybody elses business but their own.

We both have other things to devote ourselves too yet we are here.

I'm not saying they should so much as I'm wondering why they don't and nor am I saying they need to explain themselves! But when I come across something I find puzzling or anomalous in life (that is everything actually!) I like to know why it is so... Just a light hearted query though, not at all an attack on anyone.

Edited by victoralias, 16 June 2007 - 10:22 AM.

[Colin]

victoralias, on Jun 15 2007, 11:50 PM, said:

For example, I recently started a thread asking how long it might take to run sustainable 3 minute ks for 10k and not one respondent could answer from their own experience.

Exactly, that's your problem. There isn't one athlete in the world who has done what you are trying to do. Can anyone think of any athlete that has 'woken up' from dormancy at age 42, then became a sub 30min 10km runner??

There are people on this forum who are, or have been elite.
DrJH has responded here, he was one of Australia's most prolific runners, yet I don't think he is running under 30min anymore and he is your age or slighly younger. Running about 30 yrs.

Ditto MagnusM, a 2:14 marathoner, perhaps a Comrades gold medallist by tomorrow night and also a sub 30min runner before, though at 38 yp , no longer. Running over 20yrs.

Glenn Guzzo posts here often. Has broken 30min and  a 2:17 marathon. He is young and his progression has been slow and chipping away at the 30min for about four yrs until he broke through only recently after quite intensive training. have a look at his blog called "themadguzz" or something like that.

Troopy posted here, even a few posts after threatening to hit another poster with kitchen utensils , Olympian and sub 30. Again, lots of yrs training with Monners to get there.

So you simply have to appreciate that no-one here or anywhere else has the experience you are looking for. "How to get to under 30min, from a current 35min? in two yrs at age 42/43" They just don't exist, but good luck there can always be a first timer.

To put in perspective what you want to do:
Your half needs to drop from 1:19 to 1:06, your 5km from 16:30 to 14:15 and your 3km to 8:14.
[I used to run 72min halfs 'in my sleep', but only got to 32min 10km. Ran sub 3's for 3km though. So its a long way from where you are]

If you can do those , you can also do sub 30min 10km. You need to find 'masters' runners in that bracket above (67min half etc), who have recently started.

To be frank, if you came across a bit better too - I know you say you are not like that etc- then you may get better responses.  You come here as a currently 'ordinary' runner - in the nice sense, i.e. just like lots of us- so you fit in, you ask extraordinary questions, then wonder why no-one can answer them.And why there are only 'plebs' here. I'm sorry if no-one here meets up with your expectations in life.

Just train more   Seriously.

cheers

Colin (former so-called, sub elite) I am not Khannouchi

Edited by Colin, 16 June 2007 - 10:16 AM.

[victoralias]

DrJH, on Jun 16 2007, 07:13 AM, said:

Victoralias, there are about 13000 members on Cool Running. Probably only 2000 or 3000 post regularly. When you consider there are 60000 runners just in the City to Surf, this is a pretty small proportion. I don't know how you define elite, but if you said sub-30 min 10k runners, there are a lot more 40 - 50 min runners going around. Hence as a sample we are going to catch more 'non-elite' runners.

As for your other question, I think if all goes well with your training you will be at your best within 2 years. I don't think this will be sub 30 min 10k though. It took me about 14 years. I was able to do it at 21 after trying to run as fast as I could since under 8 Little As!

And Sparkie and Mottram are definitely different people!

Who really does know how to define 'elite'? Not those runners who place themselves in the elite section of fun runs (such as Run4theKids where I was held up for nearly a k despite starting just behind the 'elites') and then hold me -a non-elite- up! I use the term to refer to runners who are competitive at national level but, if you thinking internationally, the criteria would change radically and only a handfull of Australian runners could claim to be elite.

If your time frame is right the truth of my situation will be known quite soon then. Of course you may be wrong but who am I to argue with someone who's actually run the time!

Edited by victoralias, 16 June 2007 - 10:20 AM.

[lactatehead]

Dr JH was a top class runner and he responded. I have had the pleasure of getting to know many national and international class runners and I find most of them to be very generous with their advice.
Maybe they are just a little bit sceptical when people assume that they will be able to achieve things that very few people ever achieve.

[Jimboy]

I guess the good Doctor and Colin have just about said it all.
From a personal perspective I have,over very many years,had the good fortune to mix with many so called elite athletes,either chasing them or on occasion coaching them.
On a one to one basis they are generally no different to the slower Joe/Jane Plods like me and most others.Statistically,they comprise a very low number of athletes and most are what I call DOERS rather
than commentators.Hence I would not expect them to contribute more than a fraction of input to CR or any other athletics site.Most are most helpful and forthcoming on a one to one basis.

[victoralias]

Colin, on Jun 16 2007, 10:11 AM, said:

There isn't one athlete in the world who has done what you are trying to do. Can anyone think of any athlete that has 'woken up' from dormancy at age 42, then became a sub 30min 10km runner??

Troopy posted here, even a few posts after threatening to hit another poster with kitchen utensils , Olympian and sub 30. Again, lots of yrs training with Monners to get there.

STo be frank, if you came across a bit better too - I know you say you are not like that etc- then you may get better responses.  You come here as a currently 'ordinary' runner - in the nice sense, i.e. just like lots of us- so you fit in, you ask extraordinary questions, then wonder why no-one can answer them.And why there are only 'plebs' here. I'm sorry if no-one here meets up with your expectations in life.

I didn't reference the question to age. I just wanted to know how long it took anyone, regardless of age, to reach that level.

I can see that about Troopy. At the start of the Great Ocean Road Half Marathon he was arguing in a very animated fashion with the M.C. who declared that pacing was against the rules! A passionate man as well as a great runner.

Also I'm not implying -far from it- that I'm uninterested in the offerings of non-elite runners. I see running as a tool for personal development, not a competition. I have been wondering about the apparent absence of elites from the forum ever since I started reading it though.

Edited by victoralias, 16 June 2007 - 10:41 AM.

[DrJH]

Victoralias, 2 summers back I was able to back into track racing after 4 years of problems. Iturned 42 that summer. I was only doing about 50 miles a week which probably wasn't enough. During the season I got down to 1.59/4.02/8.50. In the state 5k I was on pace to break the state record for over 40s (14.50). I went through 3k in just under 8.50 and was moving through the field but got a calf tear with just under a km to go (and DNFed).

There have been plenty of better runners than me (13.27/28.16 at my best), but not too many of them have posted times after 40. What you are proposing isn't impossible but it will take a lot of natural ability and some hard work.

Steve Moneghetti is second on the over 40 10k all time list (behind a cheat, so I regard him as the best ever), but at 44 his sub 30 days may be behind him (30.11 at Sandown this year).

If all this sounds a bit negative I hope it motivates you to prove me wrong!

[victoralias]

lactatehead, on Jun 16 2007, 10:26 AM, said:

Maybe they are just a little bit sceptical when people assume that they will be able to achieve things that very few people ever achieve.

Not much can be achieved in life by someone who doesn't first imagine that they can do that impossible thing lactatehead. Ambition is the foundation of achievement.

[victoralias]

Jim Beisty, on Jun 16 2007, 10:34 AM, said:

I guess the good Doctor and Colin have just about said it all.
From a personal perspective I have,over very many years,had the good fortune to mix with many so called elite athletes,either chasing them or on occasion coaching them.
On a one to one basis they are generally no different to the slower Joe/Jane Plods like me and most others.Statistically,they comprise a very low number of athletes and most are what I call DOERS rather
than commentators.Hence I would not expect them to contribute more than a fraction of input to CR or any other athletics site.Most are most helpful and forthcoming on a one to one basis.

So you're going with the "doer" theory. Interesting. I seriously considered that explanation but decided that doing and commentating are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Look at Aker.

[lactatehead]

victoralias, on Jun 15 2007, 05:47 PM, said:

Not much can be achieved in life by someone who doesn't first imagine that they can do that impossible thing lactatehead. Ambition is the foundation of achievement.

True, but talk is cheap.

[Colin]

lactatehead, on Jun 16 2007, 10:59 AM, said:

True, but talk is cheap.

...money buys the whiskey

[victoralias]

DrJH, on Jun 16 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

Victoralias, 2 summers back I was able to back into track racing after 4 years of problems. Iturned 42 that summer. I was only doing about 50 miles a week which probably wasn't enough. During the season I got down to 1.59/4.02/8.50. In the state 5k I was on pace to break the state record for over 40s (14.50). I went through 3k in just under 8.50 and was moving through the field but got a calf tear with just under a km to go (and DNFed).

There have been plenty of better runners than me (13.27/28.16 at my best), but not too many of them have posted times after 40. What you are proposing isn't impossible but it will take a lot of natural ability and some hard work.

Steve Moneghetti is second on the over 40 10k all time list (behind a cheat, so I regard him as the best ever), but at 44 his sub 30 days may be behind him (30.11 at Sandown this year).

If all this sounds a bit negative I hope it motivates you to prove me wrong!

I didn't realize the good Dr was such a gun. We're practically contemporaries too so if I ever want to be slaughtered by someone of my age I know where to turn! Anonymity is the beauty and the danger of the internet I guess and the reason that Craig Mottram has been able to hide behind the persona of Sparkie all this time.

I've heard that the best masters and veteren athletes tend to be those that haven't hammered the hell out of their bodies in their youth but Mona is a good example of someone who did this and is still going pretty damned strong.

[victoralias]

Colin, on Jun 16 2007, 11:05 AM, said:

...money buys the whiskey

Thought, not talk, is my watchword! As for whiskey, I use it
to disinfect my toilet.

Edited by victoralias, 16 June 2007 - 11:15 AM.

[Jimboy]

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 12:53 AM, said:

So you're going with the "doer" theory. Interesting. I seriously considered that explanation but decided that doing and commentating are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Look at Aker.

Forgive my ignorance but who is Aker?Something to do with AFL?

[thomo]

DrJH, on Jun 16 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

Steve Moneghetti is second on the over 40 10k all time list (behind a cheat, so I regard him as the best ever), but at 44 his sub 30 days may be behind him (30.11 at Sandown this year).

Six million dollar man

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 11:09 AM, said:

I've heard that the best masters and veteren athletes tend to be those that haven't hammered the hell out of their bodies in their youth but Mona is a good example of someone who did this and is still going pretty damned strong.

Not quite right. These athletes were very good in other sports. The late great George McGrath  2.50.19 marathon at Canberra at 55 yrs, 3.05.16 at 60 or so at Canberra.

BTW One of the nicest gentleman I ever had the pleasure to meet during 40+ years of athletics.

He was if I remember correctly a competive tennis player and swimmer in his youth.

thomo (only good not great at racewalking, ran swam and cycled in cross training before the word triathlon was in the dictionary)

Edited by thomo, 16 June 2007 - 11:41 AM.

[IDW]

"You don't understand! I could've had class. I could've been a contender. I could've been somebody instead of a bum, which is what I am."

Marlon Brando – On the Waterfront


Maybe that sums up why I use this site.....  

[victoralias]

Jim Beisty, on Jun 16 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

Forgive my ignorance but who is Aker?Something to do with AFL?

Jason Akermanas, late of the all-conquering Brisbane Lions, and an elite athlete with alot to say for himself.

[Colin]

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 11:13 AM, said:

Thought, not talk, is my watchword! As for whiskey, I use it
to disinfect my toilet.

Its just a bloody saying Victor-don't you get it?

Still, you are putting your thoughts in words, which have to be converted to action. Less time here - no one experienced enough anyway to help you-and more time training may get you there.

So far its all talk.

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 12:32 PM, said:

Jason Akermanas, late of the all-conquering Brisbane Lions, and an elite athlete with alot to say for himself.

If he's that verbose as a dead person, he must have had a lot to say when alive.

Edited by Colin, 16 June 2007 - 01:47 PM.

[victoralias]

Colin, on Jun 16 2007, 01:44 PM, said:

Its just a bloody saying Victor-don't you get it?

Still, you are putting your thoughts in words, which have to be converted to action. Less time here - no one experienced enough anyway to help you-and more time training may get you there.

So far its all talk.
If he's that verbose as a dead person, he must have had a lot to say when alive.

No I don't get it - whats a saying?

Thought begets action.

I've just returned from an 18k threshold run, I'm out for a 10k easy run this evening... if its physically possible I'll get there don't worry. If it ain't, it ain't.

Funnily, he has had just as much to say now that hes dead as he did when he was alive.

[Colin]

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

No I don't get it - whats a saying?

Gee, you're asking for a lot of help aren't you? First you want to become the world's best 43 yo athlete, now you want to be taught English.    

Be patient--one thing at a time.

...oh, seeing you may be taking it literally again--ITS A JOKE, ok?

Hey, does anyone know what happenned to Vaultman?  

Edited by Colin, 16 June 2007 - 03:51 PM.

[Rudolf]

I used to have contact with elites back in Europe, but the observation comes also from reading soem their bibliographies.

Lots of them have this attitude :

Running is my job and my hobby, its taking too much of time and energy and is too much of the focus. I am also normal person with lots of othere interest but I am tired from running and from everything around it, so I need my time relax with friend and stop thinking about running.
Lots of them have nonrunning friends and expect from them relaxed rest, no running talks,
when I was hanging out with them lots of them said it very clearly - lets talk about anything but running .
I need to froget that I am a runner.
Some of them were not even reading running mags etc.

So my guess is they would not be on the running forums, but if they wanna relax on the net they would be on forums, where nobody knows they are runners and they are allowed to be just people.

And there is issue with sponsors contracts, some might have contracts preventing them to speaking on media or to media on any public media system, which might involved the net forum, or they were at least not do any discussion like that, in case they loose the temper and bugger up their media profile etc. Any word or sentence can be taken out of context and used etc...

[victoralias]

Colin, on Jun 16 2007, 03:48 PM, said:

...oh, seeing you may be taking it literally again--ITS A JOKE, ok?

I'm starting to wonder whos not getting whos jokes here!

[Aki]

Rudolph, you've made a pretty good point.  I became friends with an elite well after I started running, and while I admire her athletic ability, we haven't really talked seriously about training.  However I've got to train with her several times on her slow days, usually we have talked all the way about work, guys, life in general, and that's it.  They probably get bored with all the athletic talk all the time, and want to meet people who will be real friends, not people who want to hang out with them because they're fast.

I'd imagine it would be intimidating for some elites to post on this board.

Victor, there's a section on the Athletics Australia where you can ask elites questions.  Go there if you want help from elites.

[Colin]

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 04:33 PM, said:

I'm starting to wonder whos not getting whos jokes here!

Doh   I get it now. Guys the whole sub 30min thing is a joke

As it should be of course.

[Sparkie]

Quote

Sparkie and Buster Mottram are probably the same person.

It's been a long time since I had a mullet!

I know (which is very different to being friends with) a number of current or former elite Australian runners.  Damon Harris and Daniel Green (both national marathon champions), Brett Cartwright and Martin Dent (both Commonwealth Games representatives), Paul Arthur and Liz Miller (former City to Surf winners), Glen Guzzo (see previous references), Jamie Harrison, Pat Carroll, Lee Troop, Brendan Cole (national 400m hurdles champion), Keith Bateman (state and national age record holder), Stephen Parker (World Masters Games 400m hurdles champion)...  This is not to show how well connected I am, but rather highlight that my observations are drawn from a fairly wide sample...

Of these, only Jamie Harrison and Paul Arthur would regularly post on CoolRunning, and Paul is usually just shit-stirring...  However, every one of these people has been more than happy to offer advice, share experiences and genuinely encourage me in my running goals.  So it would appear that rather than being reticent to offer advice, they are more likely just not heavy users of this site.  Given all the current runners on this list would spend several hours a day training, would need more sleep than the average person, and are most likely working full-time and have partners, it it highly likely that posting advice to non-elite runners on a web site is not top of their priority list.

To be a great runner requires a singleness of focus and the ability to spend their precious hours each day on the things that are most going to contribute to their running success.  It is easy to see why posting on CoolRunning is not going to make their list...

[Colin]

Yeah,

I missed Paul Arthur- great bloke  and the one with probably the best world class time when he did his 62min half. And to think even he in early forties doesn't break 30min these days.

But that Stephen Parker guy...now thats someone I would like to meet.  
If only he would post here.

Edited by Colin, 16 June 2007 - 07:54 PM.

[wombatface]

Colin, on Jun 16 2007, 01:48 AM, said:

Hey, does anyone know what happenned to Vaultman?  

For people who don't know, the 3 minute per km at age 43 thread is a good read.

Colin, I'm wondering if victoralias is related to Freerunner or Colac (both of whom used to post on CR).

Aki is right in that many 'elites' are very approachable and happy to chat about training. victoralias, why not join an AV club and compete for them in the winter season. I'm sure you'd be welcomed. You'd also have the chance to chat to 'elites' in person.

I have a theory as to why most 'elites' keep to themselves, rather than post on CR. In the past, some 'elites' have been the subject of less than complementary 'discussion'. I can think of Jana Pittman, Tamsyn Lewis and Lee Troop to name a few. Once you're given a hard time on a message board you're hardly likely to return and offer advice to mug runners like us.

Elites who might read CR anonymously would see these 'discussions' (and others, such as the 'meat or vegetable' one) and think to themselves "I'm not going there".

It pays to have a thick skin when posting on a message board as yourself, rather than anonymously.

By the way victoralias, The Mad Guz was mentioned elsewhere. It could be worth reading his blog to see how one person got to run sub-30 for 10k.

[Little K]

Victor,

I dont see why current 'elites' would get on here regularly. What do they have to gain? What can a battler like myself teach Buster? That's what he has a coach for, and a training squad of elites. I'm sure they chat whilst out running about the things that get discussed here by us.

[Stu Mac]

Of course there are athletes posting here that have won State, National medals, there are also some who have competed wearing the green & the gold and some of them have been mentioned above.  Shaun Creighton is another who comes to mind, there have also been posts by a couple of others, but sadly generally defending themselves.

Then there are those who post ocassionally but under an alias and don't involve themselves in discussions where they feel obligated to say who they are (I know of two).  Also there are posters who are junior elites, also there are runners who are capable of running sub 31 minutes for 10k.  So the elite guys and girls are here, but as was mentioned there are more ppl like me around because there are more 40+ runners than there are sub 30 runners here in Australia.

[felisaffie]

victoralias, on Jun 16 2007, 10:06 AM, said:

We both have other things to devote ourselves too yet we are here.

I'm not saying they should so much as I'm wondering why they don't and nor am I saying they need to explain themselves! But when I come across something I find puzzling or anomalous in life (that is everything actually!) I like to know why it is so... Just a light hearted query though, not at all an attack on anyone.

in the early hours of the morning when I posted this the only other thing I had to devote myself was insomnia. I was not trying to take your query too seriously or my response to be too reactive my only immediate irritation which came out in my post was born of a constant media oriented irritation with the whole way stars,elites etc lives are brought under our scrutiny. Like we have some claim to something from them just because they are good at what they do. The great thing about the internet is the ability to be anonymous so I would imagine that if they did post here they would probably like to take advantage of that as much as the next person.

[azza]

I agree with Rudolf - if running was your job abd you spent 8 hours a day working on it (training, studying, being coached, doctors and physios, etc), would you really want to spend your free time on running forums as well? I probably wouldn't.

Edited by azza, 16 June 2007 - 09:19 PM.

[sunny1]

Why should someone's desire for privacy or anonymity be challenged?  

I am assuming that posting to forums is not a compulsory part of any athlete's contract!!

[Rudolf]

wombatface, on Jun 16 2007, 07:57 PM, said:

Colin, I'm wondering if victoralias is related to Freerunner or Colac (both of whom used to post on CR).

I have a theory as to why most 'elites' keep to themselves, rather than post on CR. In the past, some 'elites' have been the subject of less than complementary 'discussion'. I can think of Jana Pittman, Tamsyn Lewis and Lee Troop to name a few. Once you're given a hard time on a message board you're hardly likely to return and offer advice to mug runners like us.

definitely not Colac, I have a good idea who Colac is.

And the Tamsyn - perhaps she is on CR hiding under the name bristol city footbal club ?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Victor: I think it's interesting that you make this claim despite only registering four months ago. As has been duly noted, a number of elite athletes have posted, and a number of them have been slagged and heckled undeservingly.

My theory is that there are simply too many abrasive personalities on CR these days and too much non running-related fluff and name-calling. I also agree with Rudy in his suggestion that running becomes an occupation and who would want to logon to discuss a hard-days work?

In the last few years I have had a chat with quite a few Aussie elites despite being a pleb myself, and have found them to be encouraging, modest and generally down-to-Earth. Not a lot different from the average bloke/woman on the street, as expected. I noted that a number of people in these circles were hesitant to read or post on CR due to expectant heckling and slurs from Joe Plodder with a chip on his shoulder.

This fear has been substantiated in the past as CR members feel that they can slag off whoever they like without ever having to front up to their target. I know of several instances (as do other CRs) of elite athletes angered by rumours/allegations circulated on this site. The Aussie running community is close-knit and word gets around, thus why would Mottram want to logon to CR, get dragged into a pointless philosophical debate and then sledged by some bitter also-ran who spends more time on his keyboard than on the road or track?

Much in the same way that many elite US athletes troll through the Letsrun.com forums, few post due to constant heckling and slurs.

When you run your sub30min tenner, you too will join the elite-ranks. Be sure to tell us what life is like at the top...

[FakePlasticTrees]

Ralph Wiggum, on Jun 17 2007, 09:55 AM, said:

My theory is that there are simply too many abrasive personalities on CR these days and too much non running-related fluff and name-calling. I also agree with Rudy in his suggestion that running becomes an occupation and who would want to logon to discuss a hard-days work?

Yep, I'd agree with that. To be honest I'm probably pretty guilty of the non-running fluff, mostly I try to contain it to the one hijackers thread.

Quote

Much in the same way that many elite US athletes troll through the Letsrun.com forums, few post due to constant heckling and slurs.

Don't you know every idiot on letsrun has run a sub 28min 10k and sub 13:30 5k. The beginners posts all start with, "I'm just an average runner (PBs 12:58, 27:20)"

[Easy Tiger]

Well said Ralph Wiggum. There are heaps more elites than those mentioned who post regularly, but most stay fairly anonymous. They seem to post more on race threads, as RW alluded to, there isn't much else which relates to running on CR these days.

However, i'm sure if you break 31min, they'll pay attention to your thread and plenty will be willing to advise you on your 30min goal. But by then you'll already know what needs to be done.

Cheers, Tiger

[thomo]

Easy Tiger, on Jun 17 2007, 10:37 AM, said:

Well said Ralph Wiggum. There are heaps more elites than those mentioned who post regularly, but most stay fairly anonymous. They seem to post more on race threads, as RW alluded to, there isn't much else which relates to running on CR these days.

However, i'm sure if you break 31min, they'll pay attention to your thread and plenty will be willing to advise you on your 30min goal. But by then you'll already know what needs to be done.

Cheers, Tiger

Tiger,

I can only disagree. Just have a read on the current page of message board.

Mosman fun run
Comrades, both fatass and actual
Bay to Bay
Etc

I am sure it must of been the heat of the moment thing defending the people who can defend themselves like most on Coolrunning.

R.W This is a moderated public forum. I am happy to back up my comments with anyone. I to have met and spoken to quite a few Elite aussies, and a  few Olympic and world champions and WR record holders.  I know some who are not as sweet as you say (that is being very, very kind) and others for example like Monners who is a gentleman.

R.W says I noted that a number of people in these circles were hesitant to read or post on CR due to expectant heckling and slurs from Joe Plodder with a chip on his shoulder.

Ralph we are from all walks of life and performance levels. Is Joe Plodder any different to Joe Superstar with a chip on his or her shoulder. No they are not.

Defenders, don't wrap the elites in cottonwool and put them on a pedersal.

Imagine if they were elite in other sports like baskerballers in the NBA. They would just get on with their game. Trash talking both on and off the field is part and parcel. Vocal fans trying to put them off their game. The don't have a big sook (if they do they get over it quickly). They have to try and shoot the basket with the opposing fans waving things and shouting.

Try and think from a different perspective. Enter coolrunning and the sport with a collective view if we view and post we are interested in the sport. Full stop.

Edited by thomo, 17 June 2007 - 01:16 PM.

[Jogger]

Easy Tiger, on Jun 17 2007, 10:37 AM, said:

there isn't much else which relates to running on CR these days.

There is too. Maybe you are looking for something "different" ?

For myself, I have found the "elites" to be very open and keen to share. However people on CR either want to get one over them to score points that I can see why they can't be bothered. it's a real shame. but its really other people's faults not the elite runners fault. The Lee Troop scenario was a sad day. My fave elite runner that posts is Uncle Dave. Dan Green is value for money also. Dr JH muchos respect. There are many others too. Even Paul Arthur when he plays with a straight bat.

[Fire Horse]

VictorAlias,

If you want running advice, you probably have all the wealth of information you could want right here on CR.  Trawl past  threads more closely - some people may have already posted their best advice, and even if they read of your current campaign, they are not going to be moved to re-issue the same every time someone asks.  (Requests for help with beep tests immediately spring to mind...)

As to your current quest for the sub30m 10K, the advice is there for you - people have already told you (Dr JH, Colin et al) - train hard, but train smart, and, above all, it will take time.  You cannot get the adaptations you require in your body, in a few weeks, months.  You can get good, and better, but until you have been training well, for quite a while, you will not know if your are at your best.  Will it help you, if Craig Mottram tells you the same thing?

As to the ethereal subgroup known to you as "Elite", I do not use the word to describe anyone, ever.  There are surely people whose ability, in diverse areas, I have cause to celebrate.  In running, I love to see people who've done the work, running a cracker of a race, and celebrating their own milestone as a result.  But, as my mum always taught me, there is always someone just as good, or better.  No need to get hung up on the superfluities, just be the best you can, and be happy. Definitely no worship of people with faster PBs.  And, the funny thing strikes me - most of the fast people I know, past and present, have plenty of tales of woe, of dumb things they have done/still do in training and competition.  Not so different from average Joe or Jane, hmm?

[Lee Troop]

Quote

I have a theory as to why most 'elites' keep to themselves, rather than post on CR. In the past, some 'elites' have been the subject of less than complementary 'discussion'. I can think of Jana Pittman, Tamsyn Lewis and Lee Troop to name a few. Once you're given a hard time on a message board you're hardly likely to return and offer advice to mug runners like us.

Wombat Face, I have to admit I have never seen "coolrunners be less than complimentary to me" on this message board. I had one run in with Free Runner a few years back that made me realise that when you discuss a topic openly on a forun like this you do open yourself up to be condemned.
The topic was about the juniors that missed WXC selection. As there was rage and anger I drew a positive spin in naming athletes that had missed WXC as a junior and still went on to be great athletes.
The above named was wrong in stating that I was weak for not fighting the cause on this. Yes, I vented my anger out publicly but when we exchanged personal emails to each other, he realised that I am always on the front line fighting the fight for myself and my fellow athletes.
I decided then that I was not going to have opinions on certain topics when there is a great chance that the real debate gets lost in personal attacks.
Victor Alis is right that at the GOR marathon I vented my anger out at a official about pacing. Every athlete in intitled to be helped regardless of elite or not and when something is wrong that affects that work that people have put in, I want to try and fix it for the good of our sport.
Despite not writing in (Sorry Kev), I do look at the message board to get up to date with things and think what is offered here by Kevin is great for all types of athletes.
In relation to ELITE. No serious runner classifies themselves as elite. We work hard like everyone else whether sporting, labour, academic. It is the lay-man that titles us that way.
In relation to this topic; Top athletes are very approachable, so never be scared to say hello, congratulate them or even ask a question.
Lee Troop

[lostboy]

Lee Troop, on Jun 17 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

...In relation to ELITE. No serious runner classifies themselves as elite. We work hard like everyone else whether sporting, labour, academic. It is the lay-man that titles us that way....

Yep, that perception thing is interesting. While I see many on this forum as "elite" (& most definitely approachable), there will always be others that use the term as some sort of criticism...the tall poppy syndrome maybe?

[FakePlasticTrees]

thomo, on Jun 17 2007, 01:14 PM, said:

Imagine if they were elite in other sports like baskerballers in the NBA. They would just get on with their game. Trash talking both on and off the field is part and parcel. Vocal fans trying to put them off their game. The don't have a big sook (if they do they get over it quickly). They have to try and shoot the basket with the opposing fans waving things and shouting.

Yes but the whole point is they then wouldn't go home and log on to a website to hear more of the same.

[Easy Tiger]

I wasn't saying race threads weren't still prominent, i was suggesting that the race threads are where you will find the elites who allegedly do not contribute to the message boards. Read or contribute to whatever threads you like, just unlikely that you'll find the elites on the non running related threads.

Edited by Easy Tiger, 17 June 2007 - 06:09 PM.

[thomo]

FakePlasticTrees, on Jun 17 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

Yes but the whole point is they then wouldn't go home and log on to a website to hear more of the same.

That is right FPT they would have someone do it for them