70 replies to this topic

[backofthepack]

I have noted that this coming weekends Roller Coaster Run which is on the AURA ultramarathon calendar is now 43 km for the 2 lap version, there's also a 21.5 km 1 lap event.

Originally the 2 lap event was envisaged as being in the about 45 km distance range but the finalised distance is only 805 metres further than the standard marathon distance, and given the accurate distance measuring issues often encountered with off road events, it probably falls into the 'range' of distances regarded as acceptable for a trail marathon, rather than an ultramarathon.

Now this post is not a Roller Coaster Run 'bash' - in fact I'd have run in the event had I been able to get down to Melbourne this weekend - but a serious ask of the question "How short can an ultramarathon be?".

Certainly as far as road and track ultra's go, 50 km or in non metric countries 30 miles (48.280 km) is regarded as the minimum, however in Australia, the recognition of the likes of the 45 km Six Foot Track 'Marathon' as an ultramarathon by AURA to the extent of recognising it as the nation trail ultra championship has blurred the lines somewhat.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[undercover brother]

43km is an ultra IMO.
if it isn't then what do you call it?
in some US circles anything under 50miles isnt considered an ultra.

[stealthkm]

42.196km

[Brick]

43km is an Ultra if it is really 43kms.
However not many trail ultras are measure correctly so claiming a 43km Trail run as an ultra could be seen as a bit silly.
I would not mind betting that a few Trail Marathons are close to 43kms if measured properly.

But the race can claim what ever they like as long as they get runners racing who cares really.
It is not like it is claiming to be a Marathon and only be 42km. A few people would compain about that.

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 26 April 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

43km is an ultra IMO.
if it isn't then what do you call it?
in some US circles anything under 50miles isnt considered an ultra.

A 'trail marathon' . Because of the difficulty of accurately measuring to certifiable standards rough surfaced off road courses, the actual range of 'trail marathon' distances may vary slightly from the standard 42.195 km.

Personally I think 45 km is about the minimum distance that can be regarded as an ultramarathon, otherwise most certified distance marathons where as much as 200 m extra 'just in case' distance would be regarded as ultramarathons.

But that's just my opinion.

[backofthepack]

stealthkm, on 26 April 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

42.196km

Hah, OK, then as I've started at least 1 metre behind the start line in the majority of my marathons, I'll change my current score from 27 marathons, 9 ultramarathons to 7 marathons, 29 ultramarathons.

Then again, maybe not.

[undercover brother]

backofthepack, on 26 April 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

A 'trail marathon'

there is no such a thing

[rohan]

We reckon it measures over 43km....

We were aiming for more distance, but track closures etc. la la la...

Off to continue loading trucks....

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 26 April 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

backofthepack, on 26 April 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

A 'trail marathon'

there is no such a thing

Go to google.com.au and 'google' 'trail marathon'

Top 5 returns - all in Australia.

"

• 
  
  6 Inch Trail Marathon Munda Biddi Western Australia Six Inch
  
  
  
  
  
  6inchtrailmarathon.com/Cached - Similar
  You +1'd this publicly. UndoWebsite for the 6 Inch Trail Marathon held on the Munda Biddi trail in Western Australia.
  
  The results - Entrants - The course - Race information
  
• 
  
  THE COURSE - 6 Inch Trail Marathon Munda Biddi Western Australia
  
  
  
  
  
  6inchtrailmarathon.com/course.htmlCached
  You +1'd this publicly. UndoIn order to keep the racecourse consistent, we run the original track. The course will be well marked with flour where it deviates from the new Mundi Biddi ...
  
• 
  
  Fitzroy Falls Fire Trail Marathon Home page
  
  
  
  
  
  fitzroyfallsmarathon.com/Cached
  You +1'd this publicly. UndoThe Fitzroy Falls Fire Trail Marathon (FFFTM) is difficult. Only 10 males have bettered 3 hours in the years that the race has been running; and only 6 females ...
  
• 
  
  Marathon Calendar - mymarathonclub.com
  
  
  
  
  
  www.mymarathonclub.com/ausmarathons.htmCached - Similar
  You +1'd this publicly. UndoMt Mee Classic Trail Marathon. Brisbane, QLD. Australia. Confirmed. Click for more details . . Click for Results. Sun-22nd-April-2012. Bali Marathon. Bali .
  
• 
  
  Gold Rush Trail Marathon - Adventure Sport NQ
  
  
  
  
  
  adventuresportnq.info/events/trail-running/gold-rushCached
  You +1'd this publicly. Undo
  Amazing! Outstanding! The kind of event I've been waiting for. Will be making every effort to get up there from Brissie. I've."
  
  I rest my case.

rohan, on 26 April 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

We reckon it measures over 43km....

We were aiming for more distance, but track closures etc. la la la...

Off to continue loading trucks....

Understood and appreciated Rohan, no critcism of yourself or your event, wish I could be there.

[Ponytail]

I guess it depends where you stand...if I had run a few (of probably even one) 80 or 100k ultras I would probably "pfft" at a 45k or even 43k ultra but since I haven't, I would consider anything more than 42.2 as ultra!

[backofthepack]

Incidently the 6 Inch Trail Marathon in WA is 46 km............

[undercover brother]

backofthepack, on 26 April 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

I rest my case.

it's not a very good case.
perhaps you should google marathon.
how many of those races you mentioned are 42.195km?

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 26 April 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

backofthepack, on 26 April 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

I rest my case.

it's not a very good case.
perhaps you should google marathon.
how many of those races you mentioned are 42.195km?

Mt Mee and Fitzroy Falls claim to be 42.195 km. 6 inch 46 km and Gold Rush 42 km.

Some other Australian Trail Marathons that are over distance are;

Mt Haig Trail Marathon 45 km
Six Foot Track Marathon 45 km
Deep Space Marathon 44 km

and of course the 45 km Great Ocean Road Marathon.

It won't even start on the Comrades Marathon and Two Oceans Marathons in South Africa.

[undercover brother]

you forgot to mention all the 5km marathons out there too...

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 26 April 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

you forgot to mention all the 5km marathons out there too...

Usually refered to as 'mini marathons' or similar - mainly in the US.

But back to ultras and trail marathons.................

[undercover brother]

5km marathons are as real as trail marathons.

[seris]

As someone that will be running my 100th "marathon" this year, there are rules. Bob Fickel runs the "100 marathon" club in Australia. He only counts 42.195 courses.
I am a member of the 100 marathon club in North America. They count my ultras. The 146km Coast to Kosci is one. The 6ft Marathon is counted. So is the Great Ocean Rd Marathon. I have a tally of around 150 runs that the guys in other countries count.. but... Bob wants 42.195. No point arguing. When I get to his 100 probably in September, I may be much happier picking races that I love....... instead of chasing a number.

[Colin]

backofthepack, on 26 April 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Mt Haig Trail Marathon 45 km
Six Foot Track Marathon 45 km
Deep Space Marathon 44 km

and of course the 45 km Great Ocean Road Marathon.

It won't even start on the Comrades Marathon and Two Oceans Marathons in South Africa.

The word 'marathon' in those names doesn't mean it is an accurate STANDARD marathon....it is just the official 'name' of those races, and they do have at least the marathon distance somewhere in it so you must have done it.The Standard Marathon is the only marathon that is accurately measured at 42.195km.
You could similarly argue that Canberra 'Marathon' should really be called Canberra 'Standard' Marathon.

As for Comrades, it was so named long before people started getting pedantic about what is or isn't a marathon....they are hardly going to change it because some people on a forum don't agree.
The Two Oceans (personal interest as my reason for starting to run) actually has an official IAAF certified marathon split which they electronically time and give you...it doesn't disappear when you go on to finish 56km. The brand name is Two Oceans Marathon but when you go on website you will find that the 'brand' incorporates the Two Oceans Ultra Marathon, The Two Oceans Half Marathon and the Two Oceans Trail Run.

Not sure why the name of a race is so concerning.

[Unlikelyrunner]

So with races like Canberra and Two Oceans,  what would you do if you were keeping a tally?


A bit off topic I know,  but before Canberra I had run measly5 marathons and. 6 ultra-marathons.  I ran the 50 at Canberra,  got a time for both distances,  but I have a Marathon medal in my draw.

So have I done 6 marathons,  7 ultras,  or both depending on who asks?

[AlunDavies]

Depends on the nature of the race.

Bribie Beach Bash - Standard marathon (not sure how it's measured) and a 46 km (?) 'ultra' option.  To me, that's just ticking the ultra box ... like adding a couple of km's on the end of the Gold Coast marathon just to say, "I ran the ultra".

On the other hand, the Rainbow Beach run last year (inaugural year) was published at 43 km's.  It was pretty challenging and warranted the 'ultra' tag if you ask me (but what do I know?).

So, while technically an ultra is anything over what has become traditional marathon distance (it wasn't always 42.195 km's and it's current distance came about only so that the finish line was in the correct place at the London Olympics in 1908?), it might also need to be considerably more challenging if it only just creeps over.

Pointless debate really, a bit like the churlish argument over events like the 'marathon 10 km' on the biggest loser.  It was a marathon to them and the term marathon itself is not exclusive to the 42.2 km distance:

Movie Marathon
Marathon gym session
etc.

On the other side of the coin, does it even have to be over 42.2 km to be an ultra?  What if you ran standard marathon that was on a severe incline every step of the way?  I think it would be worth of the tag 'ultra marathon'

All about english really and how you interpret it (or speak it in some cases!).

[backofthepack]

Colin, on 26 April 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

backofthepack, on 26 April 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Mt Haig Trail Marathon 45 km
Six Foot Track Marathon 45 km
Deep Space Marathon 44 km

and of course the 45 km Great Ocean Road Marathon.

It won't even start on the Comrades Marathon and Two Oceans Marathons in South Africa.

The word 'marathon' in those names doesn't mean it is an accurate STANDARD marathon....it is just the official 'name' of those races, and they do have at least the marathon distance somewhere in it so you must have done it.The Standard Marathon is the only marathon that is accurately measured at 42.195km.
You could similarly argue that Canberra 'Marathon' should really be called Canberra 'Standard' Marathon.

As for Comrades, it was so named long before people started getting pedantic about what is or isn't a marathon....they are hardly going to change it because some people on a forum don't agree.
The Two Oceans (personal interest as my reason for starting to run) actually has an official IAAF certified marathon split which they electronically time and give you...it doesn't disappear when you go on to finish 56km. The brand name is Two Oceans Marathon but when you go on website you will find that the 'brand' incorporates the Two Oceans Ultra Marathon, The Two Oceans Half Marathon and the Two Oceans Trail Run.

Not sure why the name of a race is so concerning.

No concern on my part that Comrades and Two Oceans are refered to as Marathons. I was simply in reply to UCB, illustrating that a marathon can be longer than 42.195 km  - in support of my suggestion that the 43 km Roller Coaster Run is perhaps better described as a 'trail marathon' than as a 'ultramarathon'.

[undercover brother]

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

I was simply in reply to UCB, illustrating that a marathon can be longer than 42.195 km

that doesn't illustrate it at all.
people can call it a marathon but it does not make it so.

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

I was simply in reply to UCB, illustrating that a marathon can be longer than 42.195 km

that doesn't illustrate it at all.
people can call it a marathon but it does not make it so.

So UCB, how do you define a 'marathon'?

[undercover brother]

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

So UCB, how do you define a 'marathon'?

42.195km

[Ultramouse]

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

So UCB, how do you define a 'marathon'?

42.195km

If we take 2.54cm to the inch, doesn't that become, then, an ultramarathon by 12mm (based on the 1908 standardised distance)?

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

So UCB, how do you define a 'marathon'?

42.195km

Do you realise that under IAAF/AIMS guidelines a 42.195 km 'marathon will be at least 42.237 km (and possibly more)?

"To prevent a course from being found short on future re-measurement, it is recommended that a "short course prevention factor" be built in when laying out the course. For bicycle measurements this factor should be 0.1% which means each km on the course will have a "measured length" of 1001m.

http://aimsworldrunn...RaceCourses.pdf

[AlunDavies]

From Wiki, clearly indicating that the distance of a marathon is completely arbitrary:

"The sport of Marathon was established during the first modern Olympics held in Athens in 1896. The idea to include the event in the program of the Olympic Games was of French philosopher and professor at the Sorbonne, Michel Breal, a friend of Pierre de Coubertin, the man who contributed decisively to the founding of the modern Olympic Games. He proposed the introduction of an endurance road race under the name "Marathon" which would start from the region where in 490 BC the battle of the Greeks against the Persians occurred and would end at the Pnyx of Ancient Athens, where, presumably, the messenger arrived bringing the good news of victory to the Athenians. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) accepted his proposal.^[3][4] Michel Breal did not know exactly what the distance was and how difficult the sport would be - the first marathon was 40,000 meters long. In 1924, the 42,195 meters long Marathon became the standard that is today.

There are two roads out of the battlefield of Marathon towards Athens, one more mountainous towards the north whose distance is about 34.5 km (21.4 mi), and another flatter but longer towards the south with a distance of 40.8 km (25.4 mi). It has been successfully argued that the ancient runner took the more difficult northern road because at the time of the battle there were still Persian soldiers in the south of the plain."

From a different Wiki page:

"The distance from the start of the Marathon to the finish at the stadium was established at these games. The original distance of 25 miles was changed to 26 miles so the marathon could start at Windsor Castle and then changed again at the request of Princess Mary so the start would be beneath the windows of the Royal Nursery.^[2] To ensure that the race would finish in the front of the King, the finish line was moved by British officials who, in response to shot putter and American flag carrier Ralph Rose's refusal to dip the American flag before the Royal Box during the opening ceremony, “felt compelled to restore the importance of the monarchy.” As a result of these changes, the marathon covered a distance of 26 miles 385 yards (42.195 km), which became the standard length starting with the 1924 Summer Olympics."

[Pasty]

I think the topic is a little pointless.  A lot of trail ultras don't name their race as an "ultra", many of them didn't know the length of their course until garmin came along with forerunner GPS receivers, and most people try to distinguish marathon and ultra only to count their totals of one or the other (or both).

Rohan's Roller Coaster ultra has rough trail, unforgiving elevation gains and a course that will smash a lot of people.  I reckon the double loop option will be at least 50% more than a flat road marathon time with a lot more pain.  

For me, ultra means longer time, hard trail and elevation. Distance is overrated.

[AlunDavies]

Pasty, on 27 April 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

I think the topic is a little pointless.  A lot of trail ultras don't name their race as an "ultra", many of them didn't know the length of their course until garmin came along with forerunner GPS receivers, and most people try to distinguish marathon and ultra only to count their totals of one or the other (or both).

Rohan's Roller Coaster ultra has rough trail, unforgiving elevation gains and a course that will smash a lot of people.  I reckon the double loop option will be at least 50% more than a flat road marathon time with a lot more pain.  

For me, ultra means longer time, hard trail and elevation. Distance is overrated.

I think I more or less agree with this, though you can't exclude distance.  A track ultra is all about the distance covered in a given time (maybe only six hours so the outcome is an ultra for some but not for others?).  C2K, while arduous is certainly about the distance as much as anything else.  It's only ambiguous it would seem when you're in the twilight zone between 42 and 50 km.

[backofthepack]

AlunDavies, on 27 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Pasty, on 27 April 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

I think the topic is a little pointless.  A lot of trail ultras don't name their race as an "ultra", many of them didn't know the length of their course until garmin came along with forerunner GPS receivers, and most people try to distinguish marathon and ultra only to count their totals of one or the other (or both).

Rohan's Roller Coaster ultra has rough trail, unforgiving elevation gains and a course that will smash a lot of people.  I reckon the double loop option will be at least 50% more than a flat road marathon time with a lot more pain.  

For me, ultra means longer time, hard trail and elevation. Distance is overrated.

I think I more or less agree with this, though you can't exclude distance.  A track ultra is all about the distance covered in a given time (maybe only six hours so the outcome is an ultra for some but not for others?).  C2K, while arduous is certainly about the distance as much as anything else. It's only ambiguous it would seem when you're in the twilight zone between 42 and 50 km.

And that Alun, is really what my original post was about.

[Perseus]

The standard endurance distance was 25 miles. These start appearing in Aust in 1840s. There was worldwide 25 mile boom in the 1880s.

The marathon name appeared when the Olympics start in 1896. Marathon to Athens was coincidently about the right distance plus came with a romantic tale. Pheidippides, according to Herodotus, ran about 150 miles.

Nearly 200 years of 25-26mi races has shown this distance to be one of the best tests of speed and endurance for the human body. It's not really an arbitrary distance.

The 'half' marathon was named about 60 years ago but the history of 13 mi races is considerably older.

'Ultra' is the new kid of the block. Prior to 'ultra', races were simply called road races, trail races, 30mi 50mi 80mi 100mi, 24hour, 6 day and so on. Simple and descriptive. 'Ultra' is pretty meaningless semantics that says very little about a race. An ultra can be on any surface and be any distance between 26mi and 15000mi.

Why is it absurd to talk about mini-marathons / submarathons but not absurd to talk about the converse.

[AlunDavies]

Perseus, on 27 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Why is it absurd to talk about mini-marathons / submarathons but not absurd to talk about the converse.

No mention of absurdity anywhere but in your post

Edited by AlunDavies, 27 April 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[backofthepack]

Perseus, on 27 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

The standard endurance distance was 25 miles. These start appearing in Aust in 1840s. There was worldwide 25 mile boom in the 1880s.

The marathon name appeared when the Olympics start in 1896. Marathon to Athens was coincidently about the right distance plus came with a romantic tale. Pheidippides, according to Herodotus, ran about 150 miles.

Nearly 200 years of 25-26mi races has shown this distance to be one of the best tests of speed and endurance for the human body. It's not really an arbitrary distance.

The 'half' marathon was named about 60 years ago but the history of 13 mi races is considerably older.

'Ultra' is the new kid of the block. Prior to 'ultra', races were simply called road races, trail races, 30mi 50mi 80mi 100mi, 24hour, 6 day and so on. Simple and descriptive. 'Ultra' is pretty meaningless semantics that says very little about a race. An ultra can be on any surface and be any distance between 26mi and 15000mi.

Why is it absurd to talk about mini-marathons / submarathons but not absurd to talk about the converse.

Given 26 miles is 385 yards less than the 'standard' marathon distance, I really don't think it can be called an ultramarathon.

[Digger]

I have thought for a long time that we should use the following terms:

42.195km  ="Marathon"

43km to 100km = 'Super Marathon"

100+km = 'Ultra Marathon'

For 42.195 to 42.999-Who cares the RD should ave thought about it more and advertised it as 42.195km, and nobody would have noticed it long, because our GPS's in 42.195km races generally read somewhere between 42.150 and 43.2km

[Pasty]

Another thought - maybe the Roller Coaster chose to put on an ultra distance event to get AURA endorsement and thus access to their PLI?   And the shorter the ultra, the less volunteer hours are required to man aid stations etc.

[Colin]

AlunDavies, on 27 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Perseus, on 27 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Why is it absurd to talk about mini-marathons / submarathons but not absurd to talk about the converse.

No mention of absurdity anywhere but in your post

Alun, you know it is often pointed out maybe not absurd but a synonym is the same intent isn't it?

[backofthepack]

Digger, on 27 April 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

I have thought for a long time that we should use the following terms:

42.195km  ="Marathon"

43km to 100km = 'Super Marathon"

100+km = 'Ultra Marathon'

For 42.195 to 42.999-Who cares the RD should ave thought about it more and advertised it as 42.195km, and nobody would have noticed it long, because our GPS's in 42.195km races generally read somewhere between 42.150 and 43.2km

I like your line of thinking Digger, although I'd suggest 60 km as being a better point between 'super' and 'ultra'.

Silly thought just entered my head - if we have 'super' and 'ultra' what distance is 'unleaded' ? - the petrol connection.............

Edited by backofthepack, 27 April 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[backofthepack]

Pasty, on 27 April 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Another thought - maybe the Roller Coaster chose to put on an ultra distance event to get AURA endorsement and thus access to their PLI?   And the shorter the ultra, the less volunteer hours are required to man aid stations etc.

Rohan has already explained that the original intent was a ~45 km run, but track closures etc lead to the distance shortening.

As a AURA member I've no problem at all with the RCR being listed as an ultra, however it was the concept of a 43 km 'ultra' which prompted my original post.

[Tony123]

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Silly thought just entered my head - if we have 'super' and 'ultra' what distance is 'unleaded' - the petrol connection.............

Unleaded:- Half Marathon
LPG:- 10km

[halfwaydown]

Since the marathon distance of 42.195km was set arbitrarily in 1924 Olympics to suit the foibles of Royalty, I would suggest the following:

42.195km = should really be called a 'King' Marathon
Anything above = Marathon (trail/road/long/hard/hilly/forest - or any adjective of choice in front except Ultra)
Anything that you can't finish the same day you set off = Ultra Marathon

[Coogee1979M]

halfwaydown, on 27 April 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Since the marathon distance of 42.195km was set arbitrarily in 1924 Olympics to suit the foibles of Royalty, I would suggest the following:

42.195km = should really be called a 'King' Marathon
Anything above = Marathon (trail/road/long/hard/hilly/forest - or any adjective of choice in front except Ultra)
Anything that you can't finish the same day you set off = Ultra Marathon

The problem with this criteria is that "anything that you can't finish the same day" means different things to different people.  One runner could finish a 100 mile course within a day, whereas those at the back of the pack may require multiple days. Even with an ultra marathon like the Six Foot Track, there are those who finish in less than 3 hours 30 minutes, and competitors who take more than double this time to finish.

[AlunDavies]

Colin, on 27 April 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

AlunDavies, on 27 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

No mention of absurdity anywhere but in your post

Alun, you know it is often pointed out maybe not absurd but a synonym is the same intent isn't it?

I know, Colin.  But I was bored and if people insist on rehashing this every now and again I reserve the right to be mischievous.

If I put in a marathon performance, the implication is that it took a long time ... if I work ultra hard, then it means I put in a huge effort.  These words aren't the sole privilege of the running community and we have adopted them as opposed to taken up existing terms.  Even the fabled marathon run to announce victory was over less than the current 'standard' distance.  We've just adapted it to suit ourselves since.

[halfwaydown]

Coogee1979M, on 27 April 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

halfwaydown, on 27 April 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

blah blah blah blah.

The problem with this criteria is that "anything that you can't finish the same day" means different things to different people.  One runner could finish a 100 mile course within a day, whereas those at the back of the pack may require multiple days. Even with an ultra marathon like the Six Foot Track, there are those who finish in less than 3 hours 30 minutes, and competitors who take more than double this time to finish.

  Sorry to correct you Coogee1979M but..
The advantage with this criteria is that "anything that you can't finish the same day" means different things to different people and for different distances and different terrain - and notwithstanding all the variables at play nobody can deny you haven't earned the right to call anything you can't finish the same day you start as being an Ultra.    

[Perseus]

Gotta love the irony. The vanity as well.

[backofthepack]

halfwaydown, on 27 April 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Coogee1979M, on 27 April 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

halfwaydown, on 27 April 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

blah blah blah blah.

The problem with this criteria is that "anything that you can't finish the same day" means different things to different people.  One runner could finish a 100 mile course within a day, whereas those at the back of the pack may require multiple days. Even with an ultra marathon like the Six Foot Track, there are those who finish in less than 3 hours 30 minutes, and competitors who take more than double this time to finish.

  Sorry to correct you Coogee1979M but..
The advantage with this criteria is that "anything that you can't finish the same day" means different things to different people and for different distances and different terrain - and notwithstanding all the variables at play nobody can deny you haven't earned the right to call anything you can't finish the same day you start as being an Ultra.

So halfwaydown, by your rationale a New Years Eve 5 km that starts at 2359 hours on 31 December and then runs into 1 January is an ultra?

Or what about a 100 mile race that starts at 1000 hours and whose winner finishes at 2330 on the same day (13 hrs 30 min), but whose 2nd and subsequent finishers complete the distance after midnight. so the winner is not an ultra runner, but all the other finishers are?

Or the 24 hr race run from midnight (0000 hrs) to midnight  (2400 hrs) on the same calendar day - not an ultra?

Interesting...............................

Edited by backofthepack, 27 April 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Digger]

halfwaydown, on 27 April 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Since the marathon distance of 42.195km was set arbitrarily in 1924 Olympics to suit the foibles of Royalty

Correction:  1908 in London so Queen Mary? could see the race start from Windsor Castle?, I think 1924 was Amsterdam, and by then the 42.195km was the norm.

[undercover brother]

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

So UCB, how do you define a 'marathon'?

42.195km

Do you realise that under IAAF/AIMS guidelines a 42.195 km 'marathon will be ...
"To prevent a course from being found short on future re-measurement, it is recommended that a "short course prevention factor" be built in ...

yes

[backofthepack]

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

So UCB, how do you define a 'marathon'?

42.195km

Do you realise that under IAAF/AIMS guidelines a 42.195 km 'marathon will be ...
"To prevent a course from being found short on future re-measurement, it is recommended that a "short course prevention factor" be built in ...

yes

Excellent!

[AlunDavies]

backofthepack, on 27 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

undercover brother, on 27 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

yes

Excellent!

Great, I've now added 13 to my total ultra's but have yet to run a first marathon ... if I go really hard I could debut at sub 3!

[Ultramouse]

'Facetious' is an interesting word. All the vowels in order. This thread started off interesting, too. Or am I just being curmudgeonly?