19 replies to this topic

[deadcat]

i have to face the facts that i need ALL the help i can get running, so in looking at supps for endurance i ended up buying some beta-alanine and glutamine.. puportedly beta-alanine "may" increase aerobic and anaerobic endurance and delay fatigues while glutamine, once again, "may" improve endurance/stamina (not sure what the diff is suppossed to be) and reduce recovery time..
I'm sure most people will be of the opinion that this is just a load of crap and i should save my $, but i'd be really keen to hear from anyone who has used either of these products and has or has not anything to say about them.. cheers..

[Gazman]

Hi DeadCat,

I use Glutamine as part of my recovery from my weight sessions and runs. At 49 I needed some assistance and it has helped reduce muscle soreness and I have noticed an improvement in my immune system since taking it. I have found that I don't get a full blown cold and any early symptoms going away within 24 hours. I don't take the full recommended dose and only took it post workout or run.

I can't be certain about the endurance bit and even though I have improved my 10k time from 48 - 44 mins over the last 12 months (have only been running for 2 years) I can't be sure if it is the Glut or the extra training from my first HM.

No doubt different people will have different views but I have found the Glut did helped me. My recommendation would be to give a go for a month or two and see if you notice any difference. I think you will need to give it more than week to build some reserve before making any judgement.

Good luck.

[Jug]

I have used glutamine in the past but never really noticed any real effect.
I tried Beta alanine as well but could not stand the itchy/tingling effect on my skin. It feels really p***kly when you start to sweat.
I'm not saying glutamine doesn't work its just I noticed negligible effects for myself.
I know people who use it and reckon its pretty good stuff.
Just give them a go.
Just make sure you only use one at a time so you can know which ones taking what effect.
For me I find clean nutrition, structured training and sound sleep is the key to becoming faster/stronger and fitter.

[undercover brother]

you need to do some research deadcat.
1. what is the mechanism of action of these substances ie. how are they supposed to work?
2. what studies have been done to look at effectiveness (and side-effects) and how effective are they? do they really do what they say?
3. how do these studies relate to you ie. were they done on 80yold ladies with arthritis or young/fit healthy people
4. what are the potential side-effects
5. cost

Edited by undercover brother, 10 July 2009 - 09:15 PM.

[Bellthorpe]

Or you could consider it this way:

This is just a load of crap and you should save your $.

[deadcat]

Bellthorpe, on Jul 10 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

Or you could consider it this way:

This is just a load of crap and you should save your $.

someone had to say it! thanks Bellthorpe..

And you're right UCB.. of course I should do the work and check out the background, the science, the research etc..  That will be the only way to satisfy myself that these products have/or have not any PROVEN effect.

I will have to 2nd Jugs comment on "p***kliness".. it's almost painful, all over my face tingling and itching for a about 10minutes..

[FatboyCsaba]

deadcat, on Jul 10 2009, 10:17 AM, said:

i have to face the facts that i need ALL the help i can get running, so in looking at supps for endurance i ended up buying some beta-alanine and glutamine.. puportedly beta-alanine "may" increase aerobic and anaerobic endurance and delay fatigues while glutamine, once again, "may" improve endurance/stamina (not sure what the diff is suppossed to be) and reduce recovery time..
I'm sure most people will be of the opinion that this is just a load of crap and i should save my $, but i'd be really keen to hear from anyone who has used either of these products and has or has not anything to say about them.. cheers..

HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate) is the BEST for improving athletic preformance. If you can get it naturally thats even better

[undercover brother]

FatboyCsaba, on Jul 11 2009, 10:56 AM, said:

HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate) is the BEST for improving athletic preformance. If you can get it naturally thats even better

why?
what do you mean by 'natural'?
and why is natural even better?

[Bellthorpe]

undercover brother, on Jul 11 2009, 11:02 AM, said:

why?

Because then you don't actually have to train.

Quote

what do you mean by 'natural'?

It comes in a glass jar rather than plastic.

Quote

and why is natural even better?

It's green. Fewer supplement miles. And you can re-cycle the container.

[Gazman]

One key thing to remember is that they are called supplements, not replacements. They will not work if you don't maintain a good training schedule and sensible nutritional diet. They were never meant to replace these key essentials. If you already train hard and have good nutrition a suppliment will not blow your socks off, or at least I don't expect it to. But what happpens when you already have a good diet and you train hard but certain aspects are keeping you back from your goals, like muscle soreness, cramping, joint issues, etc. You are almost there, but not quite.

Personally I don't like supplements even though I take Glucosamine, Omega 3 and Glutamine.

The Glutamine means that I recover 24 hours earlier which means I can get another good training session in after a hard run or weights session and therefore improve my time. The Glucosamine and Omega 3 helps reduce the swelling and soreness in my right knee, again allowing me to enjoy my running.

I was very selective in what I was prepared to take and and as previously suggested you do need to do your homework. Some information out there can be all sales pitch. Some-one had suggested Beta-alanine to me but anything that can produce a reaction on the skin like that is to strong to me.

Also consider what you may already be taking including any medication. You need to be sure that they don't react against one another. A good health store or medical practitioner should help, but I recommend getting two or three opinions as some health store reps don't really know what they are talking about.

I think you did the right thing by putting this question out there and hopefully you will get balanced feedback that will help you make your decision Deadcat. I am interested to know how you came up with this avatar?

[Bellthorpe]

Quote

The Glutamine means that I recover 24 hours earlier which means I can get another good training session in after a hard run or weights session and therefore improve my time.

Oh PUH-LEEEZE! Recover 24 hours earlier? Quick! Notify the Australian Institute of Sport! New wonder supplement sweeps athletic community.

This puts it right up there with other amazing recovery agents, which include (but are not limited to) sleep, water, good sex, chocolate, curling up in front of the fire with a good book, average sex.

[deadcat]

so cynical Bellthorpe.. you never know, it might be kick arse..

though i've failed to find anything of any quality that is really positive about the use of glutamine in endurance athletes..

"In conclusion, few studies have demonstrated any sort of conclusive benefit from L-glutamine supplementation in athletes, although the existing evidence does support a small benefit. The most promising effect is a reduced incidence of infection after exhausting exercise, and in this case 5-10 g preworkout and/or postworkout may be effective. It may be especially useful during times of overtraining or high stress, such as on a diet, but this is only in theory. There is little evidence for a direct anabolic or performance enhancing effect of glutamine. "

[undercover brother]

AIS glutamine

[deadcat]

thanks UCB, that's a pretty good summary of the stuff i've found.  Good site, and good info on supplements.  Really interesting how the AIS divides its "support" for supplements into categories.  The only "supplement" it actively promotes the use of seems to be creatine (with caveats).. others
"have received some scientific attention, sometimes in populations other than athletes, or have preliminary data which suggest possible benefits to performance and
are of particular interest to athletes and coaches
Colostrum
B-alanine
Glucosamine*
Glutamine
HMB
Melatonin*
Probiotics**
Ribose "

[Gazman]

Bellthorpe, on Jul 12 2009, 08:04 AM, said:

Oh PUH-LEEEZE! Recover 24 hours earlier? Quick! Notify the Australian Institute of Sport! New wonder supplement sweeps athletic community.

This puts it right up there with other amazing recovery agents, which include (but are not limited to) sleep, water, good sex, chocolate, curling up in front of the fire with a good book, average sex.

There is a thing I refer to as the buffet principle Bellthorpe. At a buffet there is a range of food, some you like, some you don't like. You are welcome to take what you like, but please don't spit on the rest.

I suggest you don't take Glutamine nor anythingelse for that matter Bellthorpe beacuse it unfortunately did not work for you. You probably don't need it any way. Good on you. I will respect your choice, but please don't belittle mine.

[Bellthorpe]

You're not quite correct when you suggest that "it didn't work for you". I've not taken this, or any similar supplement.

You are correct when you say "probably don't need it any way". I don't. Nor do you.

I respect your choice, but feel quite free to criticise it as I believe it to be wrong.

[Gazman]

Bellthorpe, on Jul 12 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

You're not quite correct when you suggest that "it didn't work for you". I've not taken this, or any similar supplement.

You are correct when you say "probably don't need it any way". I don't. Nor do you.

I respect your choice, but feel quite free to criticise it as I believe it to be wrong.

Happy for you to criticise and have an opinion, but I did not appreciate the tone. The Oh PUH LEEEZE.....call the AIS was unnecessary.

I notice that a lot of people view these threads but choose not to comment. I think I am starting to understand why.

[deadcat]

Bellthrope, how come you are so sure glutamine is a crock?

It's not been proven to be of NO use  

[Arnoruns]

Great discussion.

My 2c...
Glutamine aidS in recovery and immune system significantly if you are prone to illness and train very frequently. I get sick alot less and feel ready to train sooner when i use a recovery stack which includes Glutamin, BCAA's, Leucine and Taurine.

Beta-Alanine i use just for gym and weight sessions. I only perceive the benefit when im pulling 12 reps when i use it instead of the measily 9 or 10 on days when im not using it. I do however use a creatine stack also so it could be any one of the 10 ingredients in that stack that aids in me being able to push that 3 or 4 reps further.

I do have a healthy diet consisting of wholegrains fresh veggies and fresh fish. If i dont train i dont use the guff

[jimsty]

Jug, on 10 July 2009 - 08:07 PM, said:

I tried Beta alanine as well but could not stand the itchy/tingling effect on my skin. It feels really p***kly when you start to sweat.

You do adjust to it as your body gets used to it, if it is 100% pure I wouldn't start out with more than 1/2 teaspoon at a time. The tingling you mention is a common 'side effect' and is simply the BA attaching to the nerve receptors under the skin. With BA you'll probably get the best benefits from it if you take it 2-3 times spread through the day (2-4g at a time). Powder is good if you can get one that is 100% pure BA with no flavours or anything else added to it. It works by increasing your carnosine levels and carnosine is your buffer against lactic acid. High intensity training causes a decrease in the PH levels of your cells (due to hydrogen ions being forced into them), so obviously if you can extend the time that this takes to occur then you are going to be able to train harder and for longer. Numerous studies have shown supplementing with BA to increase carnosine levels up to 80%.

• 2 weeks = 20-30% increase in carnosine
• 4 weeks = 40-60% increase in carnosine
• 10 weeks = 80% increase in carnosine

So a loading dose of 4-6g/day of BA over a longer period of time i.e. 10 weeks, results in the greatest increase of carnosine.

Glutamine I use occasionally, if I feel my gut and/or immune system need a bit of a helping hand. HMB I have used in the past and TBH I noticed absolutely nothing from it; from what I understand it's main use is helping to preserve lean muscle whilst dieting hence its' popularity with weight trainers/bodybuilders.