16 replies to this topic

[DigsQ6]

Hi Everyone,  Currently training for my first marathon (Melbourne)... training has gone well so far and I hope I am in line for a sub 3:30. Training load varied from 60-80km a week so far

have a question about long run length leading into the event, so far my program looks like this:

11-9: 35 K (Done in 3 hrs 5 Mins) (80K total for the week)
18-9: 26 K @ Marathon Pace (Done in 2 hrs 09 Mins) (61K total for the week)
25-9: 28 K        (69K estimated total for the week)
2-10: 16K         (54K estimated total for the week)

Is 28 K too long this Sunday?

Thanks yall.

Cheers

A

[Davo]

DigsQ6, on 19 September 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Is 28 K too long this Sunday?

Nowhere near. Get up to at least 40, and preferably 42. You've still got nearly 3 weeks.

[cappy]

Disagree with Davo. Do another 35k run at long slow pace.

[mgi11a]

If I had of answered this in June I would have said "at this stage less is more, don't over do it"

But now I say, do what you feel you can do and let time be the judge as to whether that was right for you.

What may work for Davo cappy or me, may not be the best for you. and there really only one way to find that out.

It may even take a few marathons and you still dont know the best answer.

Best of luck

mgilla

[Runner500]

DigsQ6, on 19 September 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Hi Everyone,  Currently training for my first marathon (Melbourne)... training has gone well so far and I hope I am in line for a sub 3:30. Training load varied from 60-80km a week so far

have a question about long run length leading into the event, so far my program looks like this:

11-9: 35 K (Done in 3 hrs 5 Mins) (80K total for the week)
18-9: 26 K @ Marathon Pace (Done in 2 hrs 09 Mins) (61K total for the week)
25-9: 28 K        (69K estimated total for the week)
2-10: 16K         (54K estimated total for the week)

Is 28 K too long this Sunday?

Thanks yall.

Cheers

A

Must underline that I'm not a coach. My coach plans my long ones like this:

Saturday 15k steady (21k total)
Sunday 35k all easy
OR last 10k @10/20secs faster than the 10k pace (alternating every fortnight)

That's more than 50k in just over 24 hours.

Although some people on this forum were puzzled by the combo of two WOs, it works. You need to run on tired legs to simulate (or even stimulate) race fatigue. My last long one is about 20 days prior to the race.

Take what I say with a pinch of salt and I would defo not run 42k before the race. That's simply too much.  
My opinion of course.

[DigsQ6]

Thanks everyone.... Much appreciated!!!!!

I'm going to stick with the plan as is......

Looking through other threads in the lead up to an event, the topic of Taper ALAWAYS rears its head. So many variants, of variants, of "rules of thumb".

Cheers

A

[cappy]

Did you do any other 32+k runs prior to 11-9?

If not, I would definitely do another one, then rest rest rest :-)

[DigsQ6]

cappy, on 20 September 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

Did you do any other 32+k runs prior to 11-9?

If not, I would definitely do another one, then rest rest rest :-)

Came off a solid build up to the Gold Coast Half where I ran a 44:x (rotary 10k), 1:35:x QLD Half & a 1:36:x gold coast half.

18 (1:31)
21 (9@ HM pace) (1:42)
25 (2:04)
21.1k (race) (1:37)
30 (2:40)
22 (@ Mara Pace) (1:49)
32 (2:50)
22 (1:56)
35 (3:05)
26 (@ Mara Pace) (2:09)
-----------------
28
16
42.2

Edited by DigsQ6, 20 September 2011 - 04:14 PM.

[Davo]

mgi11a, on 19 September 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

If I had of answered this in June I would have said "at this stage less is more, don't over do it"

But now I say, do what you feel you can do and let time be the judge as to whether that was right for you.

What may work for Davo cappy or me, may not be the best for you. and there really only one way to find that out.

It may even take a few marathons and you still dont know the best answer.

Best of luck

mgilla

Very true.
mgilla's reply is the best of this bunch (with all due respect to the others)

[cappy]

DigsQ6, on 20 September 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Came off a solid build up to the Gold Coast Half where I ran a 44:x (rotary 10k), 1:35:x QLD Half & a 1:36:x gold coast half.

18 (1:31)
21 (9@ HM pace) (1:42)
25 (2:04)
21.1k (race) (1:37)
30 (2:40)
22 (@ Mara Pace) (1:49)
32 (2:50)
22 (1:56)
35 (3:05)
26 (@ Mara Pace) (2:09)
-----------------
28
16
42.2

Based on the fact you've done a couple of 32k plus runs, I'd say another isn't critical, but would still benefit more than hinder, in my opinion. In my limited experience, the hardest thing for first timers is nearly always hitting the wall at some point, usually between 28-35k. And I think most experienced marathoners would say the more long training runs you do at slower than marathon pace, the better it prepares your body and mind to either not hit the wall, or get you through it on race day.

You'll never know whether your decision to do it or not was right unless you do more marathons and can compare preperationVresult, so you'll just have to do a bunch more and let us know what you think

[Davo]

cappy, on 21 September 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

You'll never know whether your decision to do it or not was right unless you do more marathons and can compare preperationVresult, so you'll just have to do a bunch more and let us know what you think

All very true, but why not do those "marathons" in training, to save you all that angst - and expense - on the big days.
That's what training is for.

[cappy]

True Davo but I do feel that for the vast majority of people, the extra 7ks (over 35k) takes a huge amount out of the tank and takes a while extra to recover from

I used to wonder myself why people didn't do the full distance in training, as is done for 10k and hm etc race training, but now having done 4 marathons this year, I understand how much each takes out of you. If you have a few years of base, it can work out quite well in some cases though but I think you need to be experienced enough to know how that kind of distance effects your body (beyond how you 'feel') and adjust your plan to suit it. First timers don't have that experience or knowledge usually

I think running a training run for your marathon goal finish time, but running at a slower pace, is better. What I mean there is, for example, if your target marathon finish time is 3 hours (4:15/k pace), run your long runs at 5:00/k pace for max 36k = 3 hours. Combine that with some speed work training at faster than marathon pace and you should be good for your first marathon. Your body is then used to running for the length of time you'll be out there on race day and also is able to run at the pace required

I don't 100% disagree with your approach of running a fm in training, but just not for a first timer as I see it being a high risk plan

Note: I have done 4 marathons since may and PBd each time, so that distance can obviously be used to assist your training for the next 42.2k run, but I've had to be very very careful not to overtrain and injure myself. Indeed I am just coming out of a few weeks of reduced training due to injury sustained in my last fm. I think that if I had tried this in my first ever marathon year, I'd have been in a world of pain

[Davo]

You put it very well cappy, and as was said earlier in this thread, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.
And yes, I agree that for first time (or second/third time) marathoners, your approach is best.
I'm certainly no marathon guru (I've done 14, plus 8 ultras), but I have found that running at least the full distance in training works for me. For example, yesterday I went out for a 43k hilly run. I bonked at about 32k and did some considerable walking over the last 11k. I'd sooner do that in training than in a race. Today I feel stronger (not running, but have done some weights and will do some yoga tonight), so in the long run it will have benefitted me.
The trick now is to work out when and how to taper so that I'm at my strongest for the Melbourne marathon. See you there?  

[cappy]

Sadly not, though I'd love to. I'm WA based and currently cashless

I always love it when ultra runners talk about their longer-than-a-marathon training runs

Inspirational, and quite quite mad

[DigsQ6]

All great points.... thanks guys!

Maybe catch you there Davo!

[Easy Tiger]

Runner500, on 20 September 2011 - 04:10 AM, said:

Must underline that I'm not a coach. My coach plans my long ones like this:

Saturday 15k steady (21k total)
Sunday 35k all easy
OR last 10k @10/20secs faster than the 10k pace (alternating every fortnight)

That's more than 50k in just over 24 hours.

Although some people on this forum were puzzled by the combo of two WOs, it works. You need to run on tired legs to simulate (or even stimulate) race fatigue. My last long one is about 20 days prior to the race.

I'm confused, can you explain this? you can run 10-20 secs faster than 10km pace for the last 10km of a 35km run.

[Runner500]

Easy Tiger, on 21 September 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

I'm confused, can you explain this? you can run 10-20 secs faster than 10km pace for the last 10km of a 35km run.

My mistake. I meant SLOWER not faster.