137 replies to this topic

[backofthepacker]

I came in very close contact with a red bellied black snake in the quarry rd trail near dural (nsw).
It happened when my mate backed off and walked up a hill while I continued jogging slowly. I was scanning the trail (not particularly for snakes though) and may have turned around to talk to my mate and not checked the ground for a few mins - until my mate shouted out and told me there was a snake!! (within few inches of my legs)
Fortunately I didn't step on it and it decided not to chase me..
We hung around for a while and tried throwing rocks and small branches to get it off the road but didnt have much luck. Despite our warning, a couple of MTB riders decided to casually rode past the snake. Fortunately, the snake decided to continue its Sunday morning stroll into the bush and we continued our rest of the run in somewhat of a fear!

What should I know about snakes (and other dangerous animals?) and trail running..
anyone else had similar experiences? how did you deal with it? did the mtb riders do the right thing by simply riding past the snake and ignoring it?
any tips to minimise seeing them or getting bitten?

Edited by backofthepacker, 02 May 2011 - 02:39 PM.

[SlowManiac]

First tip is don't throw rocks at animals  - its not nice.

[backofthepacker]

Thanks SM
We weren't throwing them at the snake hoping to hurt it.. Was thowing small rocks and branches around it, hoping it will distract him enough to get moving.

[SlowManiac]

Thats good. I will try a more useful reply then.

Firstly snakes will almost never chase you. You are not their food and they are actually usually scared of people.

Maybe its not too wise but I usually feel quite safe walking up to within 1-2 meters of a snake to have a look at it.

If I wanted to move a snake on I would get a longish stick and very gently touch it on the non-business end. That will usually send them slithering off into the bush.

As for minimising seeing them - well you could only run on very cold or very very hot days. Or simply accept that they are part of nature and its actually quite a thrill seeing them. Next time you see one - stop and have a close look they are lovely creatures.

[Michael S]

I usually find that the snakes I've come across get as much of a fright as me.

My closest encounters have been in longish grass and usually not when running. In open ground just keep yours eyes open and in longer grass make a bit more noise rustling the ground cover a bit.  

Having said all that I tend not to run too much in that sort of environment alone - the last thing you need is a bite from a brown when your heart is pumping at 180 and you're miles from anywhere and no one to go for help!

[Skat]

I've seen a few snakes on my trail runs (and in suburbia) but it's usually the back half of them as they slither off trying to get away from me. Just give them a wide berth and let them get on with their business. If you do a lot of trail running it maybe worth learning how to deal with a bite and carry the appropriate equipment.

[charlieboy]

Plenty of adventure racers run in gaiters. There are a variety of styles on the market and they are pretty good at protecting your lower legs from scratches while running in low scrub. They would also give you some protection from snakes.

I would tend to just wait until the snakes moves off rather than getting closer to it or poking it with a stick. Most snake bites occur when the person is antagonising the snake in some way.

[maryclaire]

SlowManiac, on 02 May 2011 - 03:50 PM, said:

Firstly snakes will almost never chase you. You are not their food and they are actually usually scared of people.

I would have believed you - until encountering a snake in the garage of our house recently in FNQ.  I could not believe how agressive it was - and it was dinfinitely attacking my husband, refusing to back off at all.

[SlowManiac]

I did say 'almost never'!  

In a garage it may have felt cornered, triggering an 'unusual' response!

[omy005]

I accidentally stood on one a few weeks ago while running at Mt Glorious. I didn't even know until the fellow I was running with started yelling, Snake! Snake! It lifted its head and hissed at me. Luckily it was a Carpet Python. I better keep a closer watch next time. We had seen one earlier on curled up on the side of the trail also.

Andrew

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[halfwaydown]

General Guidance seems to be:
Don't interfere with snakes and they will almost always leave you alone.
Don't corner a snake - ie make sure it has a clear route away from you (if it's heading in one direction when you come across it, best not to get in it's way which is both the way it's going and the way it came from).
If the snake doesn't want to move - walk around it
It's a wild animal AND it might be having a bad day SO keep out of it's strike range - I'd make that at least twice the body length (snake strike distance varies by species and is usually less than body length but if it is feeling aggressive it can move quickly before it decides to strike). And with apologies to Andrew who posted the great pics, I'd have been a tiny bit further away on Pic 3  to be on the safe side. But then I'm a Big Girl's Blouse.
I generally wouldn't get involved in any interfering - the majority of snake bites occur from people consciously trying to  touch or get too close, rather than by accident - whether benign, curious or otherwise, most snakes can't make that judgement.
Generally when bush running or walking it is a good idea to carry a compression bandage (and some idea how to use it) and a phone, firstly to call for help but secondly to take a pic of the snake.  Because if you do come across one - its pretty cool!
Finally I would just add that from my own personal experience you have a lot more chance of seeing a snake in the wild when bushwalking rather than running - and that's not because they aren't there when you're running!  

[Quinkin]

Last year I was struck at by a Yellow-faced Whip Snake. I think it made a whip cracking sound as it struck, ot maybe I was imagining things. I rounded the corner and it was on the trail, and couldn't get away quickly enough. It felt cornered and a had a go at me, but missed.

[vat]

Had a few encounters with black snakes over the years, including a face-to-face encounter coming back from Cox's River on Six Foot Track where we both froze, and he ambled off after a minute or so once he realised I wasn't going to attack him.

The blacks are fine, old story with snakes is if you keep your distance and don't look like you're going to attack them they're generally pretty keen to leave - except the one I had to hurdle that was lying full length in the sun across the width of South Boundary Road on the top stretch of the Gold Creek Reservoir 18k.  Just had to work out which was the pointy end and stay away from it.  Lazy bugger didn't even bother moving.

Haven't come across browns, fortunately - I believe they're a lot more territorially aggressive.  All the more reason to leave them well alone.

[lactatehead]

vat, on 02 May 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

Had a few encounters with black snakes over the years, including a face-to-face encounter coming back from Cox's River on Six Foot Track where we both froze, and he ambled off after a minute or so once he realised I wasn't going to attack him.

The blacks are fine, old story with snakes is if you keep your distance and don't look like you're going to attack them they're generally pretty keen to leave - except the one I had to hurdle that was lying full length in the sun across the width of South Boundary Road on the top stretch of the Gold Creek Reservoir 18k.  Just had to work out which was the pointy end and stay away from it.  Lazy bugger didn't even bother moving.

Haven't come across browns, fortunately - I believe they're a lot more territorially aggressive.  All the more reason to leave them well alone.

I`ve had similar experiences running by the Yarra in Melbourne. I`ve been told that you need to be wary of tiger snakes because they will go for you, but all of the ones I have encountered have been fine. My dog got bitten in the tail but luckily the venom did not get into his bloodstream as he is still alive.

[philk]

what i've noticed over the years is that my encounters with snakes always seem to be on open fire trail - makes me wonder how many 'closer encounters' i've been blissfully unaware of on single track !

[Unlikelyrunner]

Ive had many an encounter and by quietly walking away leaving them to themselves have never been bitten.

Now for the stats, out of every 100 people that are bitten by snakes, it goes something like:

85 of the 100 people were drunk
14 of the 100 people were antagonising the snake in one way or another (even innocently)
1 of the 100 were damn unlucky

[southy]

I think most of the time they feel the vibration of the ground as we approach running. Generally when I am running, I only see the tail end leaving the trail or the swish of grasses. Still my heart rate must go well above 220!
I come upon a lot more when I am cycling. I think they can't detect the roll of wheels, plus you come up on them much faster on a bike.

[MarkO]

The other skill to learn is levitation - I know my wife can jump vertically up a metre, move backwards across the room without touching the floor and then scream snake when we got a brown snake in our daughter's bedroom

[SirPlod]

southy, on 03 May 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:

I think most of the time they feel the vibration of the ground as we approach running.

I might be at an advantage there -… I reckon I make more vibrations than most.  

Edited by SirPlod, 03 May 2011 - 11:11 AM.

[Donny]

Quite often see snakes in the Royal National Park.
I came across a very large black snake late last year (2metres at least !!) and is scared the life out of me.

I just try and keep out of there way and hopefully they do the same to me.

[Bellthorpe]

Snakes on trails don't bother me at all. I see them often, usually just giving them a wide berth, sometimes jumping clean over them if not seen until the last moment.

It's when they're in the house that I'm a little more concerned. This from a couple of months ago:

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[Spud]

Carpet python Bellthorpe?

Speaking of seeing them at the last moment, I was out on the GNW near Brown's Waterhole in LCNP a few weeks back. Nice sunny day after days of rain.
Running back towards the causeway hard, saw a diamond python whilst in full stride at the last second. It was fully stretched out across the trail so 2 mtrs at least. I jumped and turned at the same time, came to a halt to check it out.Fantastic sight, was not bothered with me at all and remained still basking in the sun. We are blessed to have such privileges whilst out there.

[Bellthorpe]

Yep, carpet python. Found one inside a sofa once. I know there's one in the roof right now. Be surprised if there wasn't one in the top shed also.

On the trail I've seen red-bellied blacks, browns, grass snakes and others.

The only one that really alarmed me was a taipan just near the house. Just near me, in fact.

[DoggieDoctor]

maryclaire, on 02 May 2011 - 04:38 PM, said:

I would have believed you - until encountering a snake in the garage of our house recently in FNQ.  I could not believe how agressive it was - and it was dinfinitely attacking my husband, refusing to back off at all.

Eastern browns and Taipans can be a bit aggressive. Any snake if cornered. Generally they are not wanting to be near you.

Just a few points to remember, snakes can't hear so they get more of a surprise than you. It can be quite funny to sneak up on them.

Brown coloured snakes are often not Eastern Browns. I see a lot of keelbacks in SE Qld and they can be difficult to differentiate in a nanosecond. Very good snake to have as they eat cane toads and can survive. Completely harmless (unless you are a frog or a small cane toad). King Browns are black snakes.

Whip snakes and other similar species have venom but fangs are generally not able to do any damage except to children.

Any snake shedding will strilke as they can't see. This includes those beautiful carpet pythons (Great photo BT!)

80% (of Qlders) bitten by Eastern Brown snakes were trying to kill them at the time. That would fit in with the 85% being drunk I assume.

In Qld, fine of up to $30 000 for killing a snake (protected).

[maryclaire]

DoggieDoctor, on 05 May 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

In Qld, fine of up to $30 000 for killing a snake (protected).

OUCH - that hurts more than the snake bite.

[SirPlod]

DoggieDoctor, on 05 May 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

In Qld, fine of up to $30 000 for killing a snake (protected).

Is there a fine for the snake if they kill us?  

[Koala1]

I saw this one out on the Oaks firetrail earlier today.  I was mesmerised by it - it was so peaceful and calm just lying in the sun.  It eventually slithered away.

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[SlowManiac]

Koala1, on 05 May 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

I saw this one out on the Oaks firetrail earlier today.  I was mesmerised by it - it was so peaceful and calm just lying in the sun.  It eventually slithered away.

That's V cool! What a beauty.

[wadaye]

Loove snakes, last I saw in my mum's backyard. Moved it with a broom and cardboard box to the bushland. Run at night and they must just get out of the way I suppose. Also there's supposed to be a drop in snake numbers unfortunately, a crash in fact.

[SurfStrider]

I grew up in the bush and have had many encounters with snakes either there or on bush walks, rides or runs.  

Leave them be and in almost all cases they will won't be interested in you at all.

The most common snakes I have come across were red bellies, eastern browns, whip snakes, green tree snakes, carpet and diamond pythons and only a few tiger snakes when on bush walk no where near home.  Had a blind snake fall out of the roof of our home right in front of me once - it actually looks like a giant earth worm - hard to be scared of that (unless you have a big earth worm phobia)

As was said earlier, the amount of times you see them is probably only a fraction of the time you have been very close to them (hidden just off a trail, but they have no interest in us - apart from being afraid of us if you startle them).

We were on a bush walk once and i was trailing at the back and realised that i just walked over a tiger snake who was snoozing on the fire trail, and so had the 5 people in front.  I called out and everyone came back to have a look (from a distance), but there was one more person behind and it was funny that we made him give it a wide berth even though they had all just walked over it and it didn't care (no point being silly, but still funny given we had almost trod on him)

[Paul Every]

maryclaire, on 02 May 2011 - 04:38 PM, said:

I would have believed you - until encountering a snake in the garage of our house recently in FNQ.  I could not believe how agressive it was - and it was dinfinitely attacking my husband, refusing to back off at all.

Distressed snake to fellow snake: "I was hiding in this big, warm, square cave and then these enormous humans came in. Huge they were! Towered over me. And bulky! Not sure why an animal has to be that fat. Anyway, it one especially was so aggressive. It just kept approaching me menacingly and all I wanted to do was hide. Then it picked up a big stick-thing with one of its disgusting slimy appendages. Refused to back off at all. It kept threatning to attack me with the stick. All I could do to stop it from eating me was lunge at it open-mouthed whenever it came too close. Eventually it backed off enough and I made my escape."

So the snake is "aggressive" because it defends itself when in fear of its life?

Edited by Paul Every, 21 June 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[tractor51]

Some useful information on snakes and snake behaviour here: http://www.workingwithwildlife.com.au
I attended a course run by this group's predecessors a few years ago. The knowledge gained served to remove many misconceptions about these creatures. With that said, I find that initial fright always kicks in whenever encountering a snake on a trail or elsewhere, but then reason takes over. Keep a distance and let the snake go its way and it almost always will.

[Martin Dugdale]

its snake season again, saw a beautiful black snake flattened out on a patch of dirt by the path in Sophie Doyle reserve this morning. must have warmed up quickly because had gone on my return

[dino]

When I was running a section of trail in Tassie last year I came across a total of 7 (seven ) Tiger snake over a 10klm section!

And that was only the ones that I actually did see! lots of rustling was heard as I moved along.

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[arrtgrrl]

ooh snake season scares the beejesus out of me!! saw way to many death adders and tiger snakes last season!
Naomi

[Paul Every]

dino, on 11 October 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

When I was running a section of trail in Tassie last year I came across a total of 7 (seven ) Tiger snake over a 10klm section!

arrtgrrl, on 11 October 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

ooh snake season scares the beejesus out of me!! saw way to many death adders and tiger snakes last season!

I want to go running with you guys!

Yet to see a death adder in the wild. Usually they are extremely cryptic and very difficult to spot.

Arrtgrrl, I can't believe your good fortune. Where do you find them?

[Ponkey]

Paul Every, on 11 October 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

I want to go running with you guys!

Yet to see a death adder in the wild. Usually they are extremely cryptic and very difficult to spot.

Arrtgrrl, I can't believe your good fortune. Where do you find them?

Paul, seen a few Red Bellies and Tigers on Six Foot Track and GNW etc plus the odd Brown on Otford to Bundeena but never seen a Death Adder. Serious question, how dangerous are they to dogs ?. I hear that most dogs when coming across a snake instinctively back off as the snake quite rightly wants to be left alone and make its own way, often retreating from us and said dog. But I hear all these myths/truths that Death Adders are sneaky and stealthy and wait until you are upon them to make their presence felt. Less likely for big fat humans to see them but are they a potential threat to dogs when you run with them ? I have a couple of new puppies who when old enough will be up for some serious k's and I intend taking them on the permitted trails.

[Martin Dugdale]

after looking at the photos I am reasonably sure that the snake this morning was a tiger snake rather than a red bellied black

[arrtgrrl]

Paul Every, on 11 October 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

I want to go running with you guys!

Yet to see a death adder in the wild. Usually they are extremely cryptic and very difficult to spot.

Arrtgrrl, I can't believe your good fortune. Where do you find them?

The Death adders i found in a few spots in jervis bay national park..  very scary! however i think there reputation is undeserved.. i got within cms of one on two different occasions almost landing on them.. they did not rear up or try and attack.. mind you i did not look back and prob got a pb on both occasions! have to say when my garmin vibrated to mark a km split not long after i nearly died of fright ha ha..
I was talking to the rangers out there and apparently they are not a rare find at jervis bay.. and the ones i came across were sunning themselves in the middle of a track.. I still do not know how i didnt see them before i nearly trod on them.. i think i was daydreaming or looking at the scenery..  I am much more prepared these days.. always carry bandages and a phone just in case.. Until last season i have never seen a snake on a run in my life..  Its funny though.. they must like certain environments.. as i have only seen the tigers and death adders in one area.. whilst i have seen red bellies in another.. so far no brown snakes..
Naomi

[arrtgrrl]

Ponkey, on 11 October 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

Paul, seen a few Red Bellies and Tigers on Six Foot Track and GNW etc plus the odd Brown on Otford to Bundeena but never seen a Death Adder. Serious question, how dangerous are they to dogs ?. I hear that most dogs when coming across a snake instinctively back off as the snake quite rightly wants to be left alone and make its own way, often retreating from us and said dog. But I hear all these myths/truths that Death Adders are sneaky and stealthy and wait until you are upon them to make their presence felt. Less likely for big fat humans to see them but are they a potential threat to dogs when you run with them ? I have a couple of new puppies who when old enough will be up for some serious k's and I intend taking them on the permitted trails.

Snakes can be very deadly to dogs.. I work in a vet clinic and as soon as it gets warmer we get snake bites as well as tick paralysis cases.. Depends on the dog too.. some dogs will back away and avoid whilst others will go after them.. My dog i take running would be the latter so i have to have her on a lead during the warmer months.. and there are some places i know snakes inhabit that i wont take her at all..  Dogs can die very quickly from snake bite and it is not a pleasent death.. Best thing is to rush the dog immediately to the vet if you think it has been bitten .. they can get tested if they are not showing symptoms.. Like people the snake may not actually envenomate on the first go.. If you have a bandage on you do a pressure banadage and put the aircon on in the car to keep the dog cool..

Naomi

[Paul Every]

Ponkey, on 11 October 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

Paul, seen a few Red Bellies and Tigers on Six Foot Track and GNW etc plus the odd Brown on Otford to Bundeena but never seen a Death Adder. Serious question, how dangerous are they to dogs ?. I hear that most dogs when coming across a snake instinctively back off as the snake quite rightly wants to be left alone and make its own way, often retreating from us and said dog. But I hear all these myths/truths that Death Adders are sneaky and stealthy and wait until you are upon them to make their presence felt. Less likely for big fat humans to see them but are they a potential threat to dogs when you run with them ? I have a couple of new puppies who when old enough will be up for some serious k's and I intend taking them on the permitted trails.

Snake venoms have differing effectiveness on different animal species (humans, dogs, rabbits, rodents, etc.). For instance, from memory, dogs don't appear to be quite as susceptible to Brown Snake venom as humans, but more so to Black Snake.

I'm not sure exactly how much Death Adder venom effects dogs, relative to its effect on humans, but I'd say it would certainly be a veterinary issue.

I don't think dogs necessarily "instinctively back off". Some do the opposite, especially those which have been bred to hunt, such as Jack Russells.

Death Adders rely on their excellent camouflage and staying immobile, both for protection from predators and as a hunting strategy. Sometimes if they have a suitable position in the leaf litter, they won't move for weeks. They won't bely their position by striking unless they feel they can nail their prey (if hunting) or they are under imminent threat from a predator, (defensive strike).  

I know that doesn't really help you with making a decision about your hounds. Given they have the potential to sniff out an adder and explore the leaf litter just off the trail , they are probably more likely to initiate an encounter than you.

Overall it is a small risk, especially when compared to the dangers of cars.

Edited by Paul Every, 11 October 2011 - 09:38 PM.

[Justajogger]

arrtgrrl, on 11 October 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

The Death adders i found in a few spots in jervis bay national park..  very scary! however i think there reputation is undeserved.. i got within cms of one on two different occasions almost landing on them.. they did not rear up or try and attack.. mind you i did not look back and prob got a pb on both occasions! have to say when my garmin vibrated to mark a km split not long after i nearly died of fright ha ha..
I was talking to the rangers out there and apparently they are not a rare find at jervis bay.. and the ones i came across were sunning themselves in the middle of a track.. I still do not know how i didnt see them before i nearly trod on them.. i think i was daydreaming or looking at the scenery..  I am much more prepared these days.. always carry bandages and a phone just in case.. Until last season i have never seen a snake on a run in my life..  Its funny though.. they must like certain environments.. as i have only seen the tigers and death adders in one area.. whilst i have seen red bellies in another.. so far no brown snakes..
Naomi

Saw my first snake of the season on sunday it was a huge brown about 250-300mm long (so not much bigger than a worm)
I usually pack 3 things in my camel pack when i go trail running
1 compression bandage
2 mobile phone
3 toilet paper (i tell myself that you never know when you will need some when on a long run but really its because
                i usually sh#t myself just a little bit when i see a snake)  
Regards Justajogger

[arrtgrrl]

Justajogger, on 11 October 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

Saw my first snake of the season on sunday it was a huge brown about 250-300mm long (so not much bigger than a worm)
I usually pack 3 things in my camel pack when i go trail running
1 compression bandage
2 mobile phone
3 toilet paper (i tell myself that you never know when you will need some when on a long run but really its because
                i usually sh#t myself just a little bit when i see a snake)  
Regards Justajogger

ha ha yup.. i take toilet paper on a long run as well... though im a bit more cautious after getting a leech in a not very nice location lol

Naomi

[Paul Every]

Martin Dugdale, on 11 October 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

after looking at the photos I am reasonably sure that the snake this morning was a tiger snake rather than a red bellied black

Red-bellied Blacks are the most commonly seen large, glossy black coloured snake around Sydney.

Dino's Tiger Snake photo was taken in Tasmania where they are a uniform black, an adaptation for optimum heat absorbtion in a cold environment. Around Sydney, Tigers are brown and banded with brownish, greyish or occasionally spectacular yellow.

Having said that, juvenile Brown Snakes are usually banded around Sydney (prominent and distinct black bands as hatchlings, gradually fading as they grow to maturity), and I doubt the average punter could confidently differentiate the two species.

Edited by Paul Every, 11 October 2011 - 09:39 PM.

[Paul Every]

arrtgrrl, on 11 October 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

The Death adders i found in a few spots in jervis bay national park..  very scary! however i think there reputation is undeserved.. i got within cms of one on two different occasions almost landing on them.. they did not rear up or try and attack..

That is not an unusual story, they are usually quite reluctant to strike unless physically provoked. As I mentioned, reliance on camouflage is their primary defence.

That said, one does hear a few too many stories of snake keepers being nailed by Death Adders. They have a fast and accurate strike and should not be underestimated.

arrtgrrl, on 11 October 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

Its funny though.. they must like certain environments.. as i have only seen the tigers and death adders in one area.. whilst i have seen red bellies in another.. so far no brown snakes..

Yes, many species have quite specific habitat preferences, influenced by a myriad of diverse factors including the abundance of their preferred prey, vegetation structure, or time of year.

arrtgrrl, on 11 October 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

The Death adders i found in a few spots in jervis bay national park..  

Don't be a tease.  

Please be more specific. It's a big national park with quite a few trails.  

[arrtgrrl]

Thanks for the info Paul.. most interesting! ha ha you would have loved running with me last season.. 1. to see all these snakes and 2. to see me carry on like a crazy person when i saw them lol... I am hopin for a less exciting and eventful 6 ft training season this season lol..
The death adders i saw were on the murrays to the light house trail.. not far probably about a k after the turn off from murrays to go down towards the light house.. there is normally a bit of water there, and the D.A both times was not far from there..
Talking to the rangers and they said that the D.A s are not an uncommon site at stony creek also, on the rocks and in surrounding vegetation.. The tigers i saw on the steamers circuit along the sandy/grassy section running along the cliff.. the red bellies i saw on open fire trails out the back of wandandian..

Naomi

[TooKeen]

One for you Paul,. I came REALLY close to stepping on this one, incredibly well camouflaged.
He was quite comfortably sitting on Bumble Hill trail at Yarramalong about 200m from the shop.

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[SurfStrider]

I think one of the other reasons the death adder has a bad reputation is that because of its stocky build, there is the potential for a kid to mistake it for a blue tongue lizard - kids (I know I did and my nieces and nephews) like catching blue tongue lizards - obviously closer inspection (shape of head, length and legs) make it easy to see it is different, but that is one of the other reasons a lot of people know about it

Think Paul explained the dangers to humans or animals perfectly though i.e. leave them be and you should be fine

Sometimes what people identify as an eastern brown may be a whip snake.

The great thing about this post is that with everyone who has seen them (any many of the people in the post have seen many of them over many many years), no one has actually had any trouble from one (apart from mild shock and justajogger's need to take an extra square of toilet paper )

[djbleakman]

TooKeen, on 12 October 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

One for you Paul,. I came REALLY close to stepping on this one, incredibly well camouflaged.
He was quite comfortably sitting on Bumble Hill trail at Yarramalong about 200m from the shop.

Bee'jesus I so did not need to see or know where you saw that... "GULP"

[Ponkey]

Paul Every, on 11 October 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Snake venoms have differing effectiveness on different animal species (humans, dogs, rabbits, rodents, etc.). For instance, from memory, dogs don't appear to be quite as susceptible to Brown Snake venom as humans, but more so to Black Snake.

I'm not sure exactly how much Death Adder venom effects dogs, relative to its effect on humans, but I'd say it would certainly be a veterinary issue.

I don't think dogs necessarily "instinctively back off". Some do the opposite, especially those which have been bred to hunt, such as Jack Russells.

Death Adders rely on their excellent camouflage and staying immobile, both for protection from predators and as a hunting strategy. Sometimes if they have a suitable position in the leaf litter, they won't move for weeks. They won't bely their position by striking unless they feel they can nail their prey (if hunting) or they are under imminent threat from a predator, (defensive strike).  

I know that doesn't really help you with making a decision about your hounds. Given they have the potential to sniff out an adder and explore the leaf litter just off the trail , they are probably more likely to initiate an encounter than you.

Overall it is a small risk, especially when compared to the dangers of cars.

Thanks Paul and others for your comments, very much appreciated. Some simple common sense advice. Like it!

And Dan, stop being a wuss, you are going to be well into the night when you get to that section so won't see anything. Can promise you won't  hear or feel something though!

Edited by Ponkey, 12 October 2011 - 10:29 AM.