18 replies to this topic

[SlowManiac]

Anyone have it or know anything about it? In particular is it dangerous and what should you do if you have it? Are there any special considerations for endurance athletes?

Dr Google is telling me conflicting things!

[coachrollie]

So why would Dr Running Forum know better?

Try a real doctor who can examine your specific case.

[SlowManiac]

Because 'mate' there are runners on here who may have experience of the condition.

And some dr's read this forum

But thanks for your helpful reply

now where is the sarcasm button

[wunforfun]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2010, 02:20 AM, said:

Anyone have it or know anything about it? In particular is it dangerous and what should you do if you have it? Are there any special considerations for endurance athletes?

Dr Google is telling me conflicting things!

I agree you need to be wary accepting anyone else's comments other than a cardiologist who has attended you in person.

There may be runners on here who have experienced this condition but remember everyone is an individual and what applies to one person may not apply to another.

There are well known examples of athletes who have experienced arrhythmias from an increase in heart size (ventricular hypertrophy) from training that can change the 'wiring pattern' in the heart and lead to dysrhythmias.   However, I'd be careful in generalising these occurences to yourself.   I actually think there is limited research in this area that prevents doctors from extrapolating advice to athletes specifically.    But given the number of high profile triathletes who have had serious ventricular arrhythmias, it does raise the question of whether exercise has a negative effect on the heart.  

I suggest requesting a stress echocardiogram test that will help indicate if there's any problem related to your exercise.   They wire you up to an ECG and do an ultrasound of the heart before and after exercise to specifically look at any changes to blood flow in the heart from exercise.

[Mick]

He gets a bit tetchy when he has just been chicked and bricked in a 100 miler  

[coachrollie]

wunforfun, on Sep 15 2010, 03:43 PM, said:

I agree you need to be wary accepting anyone else's comments other than a cardiologist who has attended you in person.

There may be runners on here who have experienced this condition but remember everyone is an individual and what applies to one person may not apply to another.

Thanks wunforfun. I was just trying to convey that a heart condition is not like an achilles or a cold. Even if a Dr reads it he hasn't seen you, tested you etc and no Dr would come on here and give you a diagnoses or prognosis, nor should they.

I was actually looking for a smiley myself to convey my intentions with post.

Now what its being "chicked and bricked" . Should I check with Google?

[SlowManiac]

Thanks wunforfun - thats a helpful response

I have been reccommended to get a stress test done, I am just interested in other peoples experiences.


And yes Mick I am kinda tetchy so WATCH OUT!

[Ourimbah]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2010, 03:53 PM, said:

I have been reccommended to get a stress test done.

Why go for a stress test.you are already there.

[Olmy]

Sinus arrhythmia doesn't mean much on its own as it can be a normal phenomenon in some people or it can be caused by problems with the heart. Best to get it checked out properly by a cardiologist rather than trying to guess what the cause may be.

Who said you have it, and how did they come to that conclusion? And are you sure that that is what they said, or did they say something that might have sounded a bit like that but after trying to find out on the web what they said you think that sinus arrhythmia might be it? Just wondering.

[SlowManiac]

I had a medical to get my Aussie PR - they told me I had a irregular heartbeat and needed a check up. Went to a GP for an ECG she said its sinus arrythmia, not to worry its normal for healthy young men.

then this w/end at GlassHouse the Doc told me I should worry and to have a stress test.

Please stop worrying that I take all my medical advice from t' interweb - I fully realise the dangers of Dr Google, I am just interested to see if anyone has any experiences

[Olmy]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2010, 04:57 PM, said:

I had a medical to get my Aussie PR - they told me I had a irregular heartbeat and needed a check up. Went to a GP for an ECG she said its sinus arrythmia, not to worry its normal for healthy young men.

then this w/end at GlassHouse the Doc told me I should worry and to have a stress test.

Please stop worrying that I take all my medical advice from t' interweb - I fully realise the dangers of Dr Google, I am just interested to see if anyone has any experiences

Well, I would listen more to the GP who would have taken a proper history and done a proper examination and seen the ECG. I have no idea who the GlassHouse Doc is or what info they had, so I wouldn't let those comments panic me. If you have concerns maybe go back to your GP to talk about them and ask about a referral to a cardiologist.

[Arn]

Hi mate,

I deal a little with the science of heart arrhythmias at work every now and then. The thing about it is that it sounds simple to start with but then when you look into it in more detail it can be tremendously complicated. By complicated I mean that there can be many many causes of arrhythmias, some dangerous and some not. Let me give you the definitive answers from Wikipedia (that was tongue-in-cheek of course: never believe anything from this web site!)
cardiac disrhythmias and sinus arrhythmias
A google search will give you a whole lot more information to feed any concerns you may have

I've had people raise concerns over my high heart rate and I've taken the time to get a stress test. The diagnosis was that I have a high heart rate   But that it probably only means that I wont win too many races. My personal approach after getting lots of people being concerned over my heart was that, I've been training for years with this ticker and I havent dropped dead yet. Chances are it will hold out at least until the doctor looks at it (the doc had a 6month waiting list). So the only real change I made was to slow down during training - which has actually improved my race times

Good luck with your test!

[Jirinka]

Hi SlowManiac,

I am not a Doctor but I am an ICU Nurse. Sinus Arrhythmia in my understanding (and I am open to correction from others more qualified than I), is essentially follows the normal electrical pattern of conduction through the heart, or Sinus Rhythm. The difference that makes it Sinus Arrhythmia or Dysrhythmia, is that the rhythm is irregular.

The irregularity coincides with breathing, increasing on inhalation and decreasing on exhalation. It often is present in children, although most times we grow out of it. No treatment is required. However, there are a few rhythms that could be potentially misdiagnosed as sinus arrhythmia that have the potential to be problematic. Things to look out for would be if you feel (excessively) short of breath, dizzy or about to faint after exercise.

The best thing is to simply go and have a good and honest chat with your GP. If they do refer you to have a stress test, it is not invasive or anything. It is you on a treadmill, albeit with some cardiac monitoring gear, while they take you up to 85-90% of your predicted maximum heart rate.

Good Luck,
J.

[TheRuns]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2010, 03:20 PM, said:

Anyone have it or know anything about it? In particular is it dangerous and what should you do if you have it? Are there any special considerations for endurance athletes?

Dr Google is telling me conflicting things!

Sinus arrhythmia is quite common and is indeed normal. It is less common the older you become, partly becuase the heart is unable to adjust to the respiratory augmentation of preload and afterload as rapidly and effectively as when younger.
Nevertheless, sinus arrhythmia wouldn't worry me if I had it. If it was not sinus in origin, I'd me more concerned. I am quite easily able to demonstrate an alteration in heart rate during my respiratory cycle, with a change in 10 beats per minute seeming possible. I haven't done it using an ECG, but the pulse oximeter appears to show a regular pattern. I only noticed this because I wanted to see what my heart rate was at work one day.
I also do not necessarily agree with the comment that a transthoracic echo can show heart blood flow. It will show the effects of inadequate blood flow or of previous MI, but to show flow itself, a myocardial perfusion scan is warranted.
If you have no history of angina or MI, I wouldn't be rushing into these tests.

[SlowManiac]

I am quite looking forward to the stress test to be honest - 90% of HR max in the Doctors room sounds like my kind of visit!

I think I will go have the test just to be on the safe side - thanks for all the replies and PMs

[Bellthorpe]

That last time I heard the phrase "sinus arrhythmia" I was sitting in a hospital having been admitted after a heart attack. I asked about the implications, and the answer was "none, it's normal, just mentioning it".

I've subsequently had many an ECG of course. Sinus arrhythmia never gets a mention. It's not of any consequence. And even after subsequent heart surgery, the cardiologist declined to give me a stress test. He said that there was simply no point, in the absence of any symptoms which needed to be examined. And they gave too many false positives and false negatives to do them 'just in case'.

[wunforfun]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2010, 08:32 PM, said:

I am quite looking forward to the stress test to be honest - 90% of HR max in the Doctors room sounds like my kind of visit!

I think I will go have the test just to be on the safe side - thanks for all the replies and PMs

Usually the cardiologist doing the test doesn't like having to wait 15mins for your HR to reach the 90% level (they start low) when they are used to older patients getting there in 2mins   

It's a very worthwhile test though because it shows exactly what's happening to your heart during and after exercise and is pretty cool showing off how fit you are!

If they find nothing, that's the ideal outcome and definitely not a waste of time.

I still remember seeing a poor runner who looked about 30 go into cardiac arrest halfway up Anderson St hill around the tan. Don't know what happened to him, but the Mica paramedics worked on him for ages and got him to hospital.   That wasn't long after seeing another runner who arrested along the Marybyrnong river.   Not sure how he ended up either but it wasn't looking good.   It's very sobering seeing a runner in that situation as you'd assume they are the fit ones!  

The bottom line is running training does push the heart and there's limited research into the effects of exercise on the heart so if there is any doubt I wouldn't hesitate getting it checked out.   Just don't fall off the treadmill!

[Mister G]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2010, 04:57 PM, said:

not to worry its normal for healthy young men.

Not to mention, tall, dark and handsome.

Oh, wait......

[SlowManiac]

Mister G, on Sep 16 2010, 02:59 PM, said:

Not to mention, tall, dark and handsome.

Oh, wait......

Hey 1 out of three ain't bad!

Well my wife thinks I am dark anyway  

I am going to ask for an alternative way of getting my HR to 90%  - I am thinking pogo stick