194 replies to this topic

[Twopennys]

Hi All,

Well now the dust has settled on Six Foot it is time to start thinking about what comes next in your trail running training for the big trail ultras coming up..... solution: Hellgate Gorge Fatass  

The Original 46k course is the most fun you can have standing up!

I'll also be doing a recce on the 54k Bouncing Off The Walls extension sometime soon so I can have some good intel for those wanting something a little more sporting.

Any takers?

Cheers, 2P

[tim]

Twopennys, on Mar 13 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

Hi All,

Well now the dust has settled on Six Foot it is time to start thinking about what comes next in your trail running training for the big trail ultras coming up..... solution: Hellgate Gorge Fatass  

The Original 46k course is the most fun you can have standing up!

I'll also be doing a recce on the 54k Bouncing Off The Walls extension sometime soon so I can have some good intel for those wanting something a little more sporting.

Any takers?

Cheers, 2P

yep.  

I thought about it whilst sitting there at the 6 foot finish.  it was exciting doing the run from deviation to caves on fresh legs and even more exciting running through Caves and along the river.  Great country and a great run.

[scurry711]

I heard its the week after Canberra, can't remember if it was last year. Put me down as a possible, probably a probable, just need another leave pass. Time last year: 7 hours. Goal this year, break 7 hours. Target time 6.59:59.

Edited by scurry711, 13 March 2008 - 08:09 PM.

[Spud]

I'm in 2P, looking at the full monty too.

[tim]

are we talking the 2 loops or the 12 foot of hell?

[Twopennys]

Tim I think Spud is suggesting he will do "Bouncing Off The Walls" (see the website) - it is a 27k out and back (54k all up) to  Kanangra Walls that adds onto the Original course to make it up to a nice round 100k.

Of course if anyone is stoooopid enough they can start from Explorers Tree and do a "Twelvegate"....

Cheers, 2P

Edited by Twopennys, 13 March 2008 - 10:10 PM.

[inganbangan]

Sorry I'm unable to make this one guys. I had a great time last year and was really keen this year. I'll be reading your reports.

Like tim I thought about it during the last part of the 6 foot, thinking how nice it was to cruise into caves house at the beginning of a run.

[Brick]

With 6' Track, Wiseman's Ferry and Canberra no chance of getting another pass.
It does sound good, would be good training for TNF100. Bugger.Bugger.

Brick

[max payne]

Conditional on leave pass I am very keen for somewhere between 46km and Bouncing Off The Walls option ("somewhere" could mean a 100m jaunt down the kanangra walls road and back! The elevation map does scare me) .

Any thoughts out there on how long the 100km might take for a 4.46 6footer? Also did cradle in 11.5 this year. I'm guessing perhaps 13 hrs or so. One final question - the 54km out and back, does anyone know what the profile is like?? No more hellgate gorges to cross I'm hoping.

[Twopennys]

max payne, on Mar 14 2008, 07:03 AM, said:

Conditional on leave pass I am very keen for somewhere between 46km and Bouncing Off The Walls option ("somewhere" could mean a 100m jaunt down the kanangra walls road and back! The elevation map does scare me) .

Any thoughts out there on how long the 100km might take for a 4.46 6footer? Also did cradle in 11.5 this year. I'm guessing perhaps 13 hrs or so. One final question - the 54km out and back, does anyone know what the profile is like?? No more hellgate gorges to cross I'm hoping.

Last year I predicted that one loop of Hellgate would be approximately 1.25 times your Six Foot result - this actually turned out to be fairly accurate.

As for the out and back to the Walls - I will run it sometime soon to get a profile from my Garmin and use the old MKI eyeball survey instrument to provide some more detail - FWIW my mapping software puts the cumulative ascent (and corresponding descent) at a smidge over 1,500 meters so I'm guessing it undulates a little

As for how long it would take you for the 100k - Based on your 6' time you would have to budget around 7 hours for the Hellgate component and something similar (or more) for the Walls section.

The really tricky bit of the 100k option is that the rediculously hard part is right at the end and most likely punters will be doing one of the worlds ugliest descents in the dark.

Cheers, 2P

Edited by Twopennys, 14 March 2008 - 07:50 AM.

[FakePlasticTrees]

Sorry for the slight hijack but for those interested I'll probably be running 6ft in May sometime.

[rodthehornet]

2P,

I think Spud might be talking full monty in terms of starting at the tree, doing the track, hellgate loop and back to the tree, similar to what we tried last year.

Put me down as a definite maybe for a loop.  Depends on leave passes, but would be fun to have a go at it again.  Hopefully there is a rope installed up that hill at the back of the caves   

Rod

[Spud]

Twopennys, on Mar 14 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

The really tricky bit of the 100k option is that the rediculously hard part is right at the end and most likely punters will be doing one of the worlds ugliest descents in the dark.

Lovely.  

[Spud]

rodthehornet, on Mar 14 2008, 09:51 AM, said:

2P,

I think Spud might be talking full monty in terms of starting at the tree, doing the track, hellgate loop and back to the tree, similar to what we tried last year.

Put me down as a definite maybe for a loop.  Depends on leave passes, but would be fun to have a go at it again.  Hopefully there is a rope installed up that hill at the back of the caves   

Rod

As much as I love the 12FT, I'm leaning more towards new territory and 2P's "Off the walls" option does look interesting.
I will know more after 50km at Canberra the weekend before.
Logistics of getting home afterwards are easier with TwelveGate, camping at Deviation will be required for the "walls" option.

[Tim 2]

Would love to but I'll be otherwise engaged in running around in circles for 24hrs!!

Tim

Edit- Just had a look at the maps and profile this looks like fun.  Anyone up to back up after OGNR for a 46km tour of hellgate either Sunday or easter monday.  I know i shouldn't ask, you all have a limited number of leave passes.

Edited by Tim 2, 14 March 2008 - 05:41 PM.

[Martin Dugdale]

Count me in

[Twopennys]

I've just loaded the map for the Bouncing Off The Walls extension on the Fat Ass website here

FYI this map is printed to PDF at 1:25,000 scale with 10m contour interval.

The route is in red and starts at the intersection of the Blood Filly Fire Trail and the Moorara Fire Trail and heads generally South to Kanagra Walls. As can be seen there are no huge ups or downs, just a series of undulations peaking at 1,292 meters ASL at Mt Thurat with all of it > 1000m ASL - could be interesting if the weather is crap.

I will put out a big water drop at the intersection of Blood Filly and Kanangra Rd for Hellgaters and outward bound Off The Wallers and a smaller one for the return trip for the Off The Wallers at the intersection of Moorara Fire Trail and Luthers Fire Trail (about a 700m downhill walk from the kanangra Rd).

When I do the recce I'll check out the water sitch at the Walls and if nec on the day I'll put a drop there and one at the intersection of Black Range and Moorara Fire Trail too. That will make the longest leg between water about 27k - so weather dependant a 3L bladder should do it.

Cheers, 2P

[scurry711]

2P, for Hellgaters, will you have the same aid stations as last year? I believe there was two wasn't there, one at the bottom of the hill before the big climb after Caves House and one at the intersection of Bloody Filly and Kanangra Rd as you mention above? Any chance of a drop at the T junction of Black Range and Marooba Bass(?) after the big climb out?? That long climb really sucked the hydration pack and I started to run out on Black Range. I did hear later that some water was hidden there but I wasn't informed before hand.

PS Are you running it this year?

Edited by scurry711, 15 March 2008 - 03:50 PM.

[Twopennys]

Scurry I'll put out drops as per my previous post - so to answer your questions, yes on Blacks Range, no at the bottom of the big climb after the caves as there is a tap there anyway (I pretty much was just filling in time there last year and making sure you all found the right spot to turn off - Tim would still be out there otherwise ).

As for whether I'll run - I'd like to but I need to seriously start training - If someone does the full monty I will probably do a loop of Hellgate original as I could probably walk most of it and still finish in front of them - or they could at least record the waypoint for the helicopter to winch out my fat arsed earthly remains....

[Spud]

Thanks 2P.
Just got to work out the waypoints for the track diversions on the way to the Walls, although I imagine it's pretty straight forward (famous last words hey).

Looking forward to it. Cheers mate.

[Twopennys]

Relax Spud I will lift them straight off the electonic maps I have and put them on the site when I get the chance. Modern technology is a wonderful thing

[Twopennys]

Bump

The waypoints for Bouncing Off The Walls section have not been added to the Website

I still haven't done the recce for the extension but hoping to do it over the next 2 weeks sometime.

Only 3 weeks to go for the most fun you can have standing up.

I even had a run today so may even make a start myself

Cheers, 2P

[otisr]

This looks like a great run.  Checking home calendar.  May I ask a few questions: I would estimate my time to be about 7-8hrs, probably the later.  What is the weather like as it looks like a 4pm finish - close enough to dark?? For these longer runs what food to take, I did the Wisemans ferry and finished pretty hungry not really thirsty??

[Martin Dugdale]

otisr, on Mar 30 2008, 09:36 PM, said:

This looks like a great run.  Checking home calendar.  May I ask a few questions: I would estimate my time to be about 7-8hrs, probably the later.  What is the weather like as it looks like a 4pm finish - close enough to dark?? For these longer runs what food to take, I did the Wisemans ferry and finished pretty hungry not really thirsty??

take at least two litres of water plus food plus some basic survival gear, if anything goes wrong you could be out there for quite a long time.
my kit will include basic first aid including a compression bandage, whistle, hat , water proof jacket and sufficient food for 24 hours

[Twopennys]

Martin speaks the truth

Last years running at roughly the same time of year the weather was perfect but given that much of it is higher than 1,000m ASL runners should be ready for anything - when I did the initial recce it was mid-summer and even then I took a beanie, weatherproof jacket and space blanket as insurance.

To compound any risk from weather the section from the Caves up to the Kanangra Rd and from Kanagra Rd back to Blacks Range are trails rarely travelled by others and it is unlikely you will see anyone other than comrade fatassers.

The section from Moorara Boss to the Jenolan River is extremely crappy and steep - the potential for grief high.

Cheers, 2P

[Twopennys]

The only really tricky bit navigationally is knowing where to commence the climb out from the Jenolan River on the outward-bound journey.

The attached pic is of Mr G gingerly picking his way across the creek just before the gate (pictured) - so imagine the view from Mr G's perspective and the gate marks the spot you commence your ascent.

 Hellgate07_019.jpg   1.43MB   61 downloads

Cheers, 2P

[RunBare]

I'm going to come along for the shorter version.  
This is of course pending babysitters/footy games/netball games.  
Not sure the 4 kidlets are up for a long run in the mountains yet!

[EverReadyBunny]

This one sounds really good and I am dying to get back into trail running. Martin Dugdale mentioned it to me on a training run once and it sounded really challenging but a fantastic run.

Put me down as a possible depending on if I can get a lift and if I am still alive and can walk after Ironman I think 2 weeks should be enough to recover.

[milov]

looks like its time to fire up team bunnylov again  

[rodthehornet]

Twopennys, on Mar 31 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

The only really tricky bit navigationally is knowing where to commence the climb out from the Jenolan River on the outward-bound journey.

Dont forget the left turns on the Blood Filly/Moorara Bass fire trails - two trips around now and both times I have started to follow the second intersection around to the right - Innes and Brick know the intersection quite well.


Rod

[Brick]

rodthehornet, on Apr 1 2008, 11:12 AM, said:

Dont forget the left turns on the Blood Filly/Moorara Bass fire trails - two trips around now and both times I have started to follow the second intersection around to the right - Innes and Brick know the intersection quite well.
Rod

Yes Yes, so we missed it having to much fun chatting and running.
Actually we do not know it at all.   

Brick

[Twopennys]

Which part of "take every left option from this point" in the detailed course instructions don't you guys get?

Hehe I know when I was running with Topcat et al last year they all merrily headed off to the right as well till I pulled em up.

Of course if you inadvertantly do turn right you can just carry on and bounce off the walls

[rodthehornet]

Twopennys, on Apr 1 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

Which part of "take every left option from this point" in the detailed course instructions don't you guys get?

I totally agree - it could not be any more simple.  I still remember your detailed briefing and  I also remember saying to myself 'turn left, turn left' both times up there, but there is just something about that second intersection that sucks you around to the right......  The Kanangra Triangle    

[Spud]

Twopennys, on Apr 1 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

Of course if you inadvertantly do turn right you can just carry on and bounce off the walls

There's worse things that could happen hey?  

[Twopennys]

Ok - I have my leave pass confirmed... so I will go up Friday evening and do a water drop at the Kanangra/Blood Filly intersection - another at Moorara/Luthers (for the bouncing off the walls crowd) - one at the Wall (again for the "bouncers" unless there is a tank TBC) and a final one at Moorara/Blacks Range. I will camp at the Deviation Friday night.

My intention is to do a long slow lap of Hellgate Original (46k) and then camp a second night at the Deviation to count in anybody (Spud? Others?) doing the full monty. Next day (Sunday) I'll go pick up the empties.

Most fun you can have standing up people

Closer to the date I'll do a roll call for catering purposes - so lurkers be prepared to go public or risk dying of dehydration (unless you are a particularly quick lurker)

Cheers, 2P

[littleblackpug]

Twopennys, on Mar 31 2008, 12:02 PM, said:

The only really tricky bit navigationally is knowing where to commence the climb out from the Jenolan River on the outward-bound journey.

The attached pic is of Mr G gingerly picking his way across the creek just before the gate (pictured) - so imagine the view from Mr G's perspective and the gate marks the spot you commence your ascent.

Hellgate07_019.jpg

Cheers, 2P

OMG! From that thumbnail I thought he was tight-roping it along the pipe! Tight-roping on top of climbing shear rock walls, I was starting to be glad I went to "circus camp" when I was 12  

edited to say: serves me right for posting first thing in the morning on no sleep, I was thinking this was THF100 thread!!

Edited by littleblackpug, 02 April 2008 - 06:58 AM.

[Martin Dugdale]

littleblackpug, on Apr 2 2008, 06:56 AM, said:

OMG! From that thumbnail I thought he was tight-roping it along the pipe! Tight-roping on top of climbing shear rock walls, I was starting to be glad I went to "circus camp" when I was 12  

edited to say: serves me right for posting first thing in the morning on no sleep, I was thinking this was THF100 thread!!

does this mean that you are joining us on this merry jaunt?

[littleblackpug]

Martin Dugdale, on Apr 2 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

does this mean that you are joining us on this merry jaunt?

I'm afraid not Martin, I would love to, but I am doing an AROC race that day with MissZ!!

[Martin Dugdale]

BUMP
We are getting close now, who is driving up on the morning and who is camping?
I am trying to make my mind up about where to sleep, or attempt to the night before

[RunBare]

I'm driving up on the morning with another runner.  Really looking forward to this. Just have to get a little run in Canberra done first this weekend

[SlowManiac]

If the weather is good I will camp, otherwise its the luxurious Cecil Guesthouse for me!

[Twopennys]

Roll Call time - be good for me to know for water drop purposes how many are coming - I'll be last through and I don't want to die of dehydration.

I'll also have to lug the drop in for any "Bouncing Off The Walls" (100k) guys on Shanks's Pony so if there are any lurkers coming can you please post or at least PM me.

So far:

Tim
Scurry (poss/prob)
Spud (Bouncing option)
Max Payne
Martin Dougdale
Otisr
RunBare + 1
EverReadyBunny
Milov
Slow Maniac
Thomas
Lynda
Mr G
BlueBel

I will head up Friday arvo after work and put out water drops and then probably just sleep in my car.

For the avoidance of doubt - drops will be at the following intersections:

Kanangra Rd/Blood Filly
Moorara Boss/Blacks Range

For anyone doing the 100k there will be drops at:

Moorara Boss/Luthers (for the return trip)
Kanangra/Mt Thurat

NB there is water available at the Caves and at the Caves Campground just before the first ascent (if I get a chance I'll check the tap still works).

I will probably also stay the Saturday night to make sure anyone doing the 100k gets back.

Cheers 2P

Edited by Twopennys, 13 April 2008 - 10:39 PM.

[Thomas]

2P put me down as well. Just the 46k option for me.
Thanks.

[Twopennys]

Thomas, on Apr 12 2008, 09:47 AM, said:

2P put me down as well. Just the 46k option for me.
Thanks.

Done!

[Lynda]

2P,

I have a leave pass, so put me down for the 46km option.

Thanks

[Twopennys]

Lynda, on Apr 12 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

2P,

I have a leave pass, so put me down for the 46km option.

Thanks

You're on the list

[Mister G]

46K.

[milov]

Just wondering.... is anyone else considering a 12gate option?

[Martin Dugdale]

milov, on Apr 12 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

Just wondering.... is anyone else considering a 12gate option?

no

[Spud]

Pulled up well after the 50 today in Canberra, still looking at BOTW option.