29 replies to this topic

[GeorgeB]

Hi All,

I know the guys from Ultra 168 will be in that area this weekend and I would have loved to join them but unfortunately had other prior plans that I cannot get out of.

I circled Saturday 10/3/12(labour day long weekend) to stay in Mt Beauty and attempt to run up Bogong.
Has anyone(probably stupid question) on these forums done this? I plan to go from Mt Beauty to to the summit, checked Google Earth and it says 10-12kms. What path do I need to take that goes up to the summit? Hard Run? Fire Trails? Stairs? How long if constantly jogging should I expect it to take? What would the approx gradient be? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

George.B.

[Whippet Man]

The run from Mt Beauty will be mostly on road. Most people drive to Mountain Creek campground and run from there. You need to turn up the Staircase Spur. Well marked on the local topo that you should get hold of (easy to find in Mt Beauty). Fast (read elite) runners make it to the summit from Mt Creek in around 1hr 20mins. Don't expect to do much running on the way up. And watch the weather. Rumour has it that it can turn nasty up there.

[loremipsum]

Pretty effective rumour network you've got there, WM!

What he said, but would add that there's a fairly distinctive trail all the way up, and vegetation cover for the vast majority, so even in poor weather, you can do 2/3 without having to subject yourself to open ridge-line exposure.  But if it is poo or low visibility, consider stopping once the vegetation does.  An alternative descent if you do make the summit is Eskdale Spur, then back along the valley past the original Staircase Spur turn-off, to Mountain Creek - constitutes the Mt Bogong Conquestathon course, I think.  Mountain Creek > Summit via Staircase Spur each way is ~3hrs for non-elite, if you're happy to not do much the next day

[RMC]

GeorgeB, on 23 January 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

I circled Saturday 10/3/12(labour day long weekend) to stay in Mt Beauty and attempt to run up Bogong.

According to .. http://www.greatalpi...m.au/events.asp

the Conquestathon is on Sun 11th March 2012. You may want to join in on that run.

Quote

Mount Bogong Conquestathon
Date: 11 March 2012

Venue: Mountain Creek picnic area/ Mount Bogong

Contact Details:  03 5754 4002

A safe but strenuous walk to the top of Victoria’s highest mountain, to conquer Mt Bogong. Starting from Mountain Creek Picnic Area, this is a 20km round trip with a climb of 1300 metres organised and staffed by members of the Upper Kiewa Valley Lions Club. The satisfaction of standing on top of Victoria is overwhelming.

[speedmeup]

I ran up and back down the stairs last year, took 2 - 3 hours return..a bloody tough run. It's not so much the steep-ness that's difficult it's the loose and rocky nature of the track - VERY hard to place your feet without stepping and rolling on loose rocks. Coming down was a major ankle-breaking risk taking exercise. Make sure you take some water (not much to be has along the course). All the best, it's a good one to conquer.. but watch your ankles.

[GeorgeB]

RMC, on 24 January 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

According to .. http://www.greatalpi...m.au/events.asp

the Conquestathon is on Sun 11th March 2012. You may want to join in on that run.

Thanks all for the help!! Love these forums, find out things i would not normally have known about!! Like the Conquestathon quoted by RMC. Might join in on that.

Honestly i plan to only go really hard on the way up and have a leisurely walk on the way down, I dont see much point pushing myself running this downhill(which obviously i am not familiar with) for 8-10km. As far as loose rocky track is concerned at least I will put these Salomon XA 3D Ultra 2 shoes to the test! They have had it easy in the Dandenongs every week.

[Arn]

Times for non-elite runners from the Mt Creek campground to the top is 2hrs+. Enjoy!

[Pasty]

Arn, on 25 January 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Times for non-elite runners from the Mt Creek campground to the top is 2hrs+. Enjoy!

Nah, that's not really true. Looking at past results

2005
Number of competitors = 27
Number under 2hrs =  22
Average Time = 1:44
Best Time = 1:24 (damen goerke)
Worst Time = 2:57

2006
Number of competitors = 20
Number under 2hrs = 25
Average Time 1:40
Best Time 1:14 (magnus michelson)
Worst Time 2:03

2007
No results (race cancelled)

2008
Number of competitors = 29
Number under 2hrs = 21
Average Time = 1:48
Best Time  1:19 (fats)
Worst Time  2:09

2009
No Bogong Summit times (sigh)

2010
No Bogong Summit times (sigh...)

2011 (a crappy weather year)
Number of competitors = 80 records
Number under 2hrs = 63
Average Time = 1:50
Best Time  1:06 (pivetta - is this correct?)
Worst Time  2:46

I reckon an average time in the race is about 1:45 - 1:50.
Elites are doing sub under about 1:20ish.

[GeorgeB]

pastyboy, on 25 January 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Nah, that's not really true. Looking at past results

I reckon an average time in the race is about 1:45 - 1:50.
Elites are doing sub under about 1:20ish.

Is that 1:20 just on the way up, or up and down?

When was the 2011 race? Is that a different race to the Conquestathon RMC mentioned earlier in the thread?

Edited by GeorgeB, 25 January 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[Pasty]

The times are from the Bogong to Hotham Ultra event held in early January every year.  The run starts at Mountain Creek campground, ascends the staircase to Bogong Summit, then continues past Cleve Cole Hut, down to Big River, Ropers hut across to Langford Gap (falls creek) and onto Hotham (64km total).   You have to remember that those times are done by runners who are running at least another 30+km or60+km so they are likely holding a bit back as well rather than pushing to the limit on the climb.

Those times are just on the way up, and the elite times are truly elite.
For comparison Magnus has a 2:14 marathon time PB and ascended Bogong in 1:14 to the summit.
I am not sure who has the ascent record (maybe Andy Kromar?).  I don't believe that the 1:06 is correct in the 2011 results. There are no 2012 times yet that have the splits to the summit (whippet? where are they? can you add them please?). The 64km race record times are Male - Andrew Kromar 6:41:02 1996; Female - Beth Cardelli 8:14:27 2011.

Personally, I would ascent the staircase to Bogong summit, run to Cleve Cole Hut for the views and a bite to eat (and water), then return via Eskdale Spur and along the valley floor.  That way you get new views the whole day, see three huts and enjoy the valley floor.  The water at the huts is usually ok though best at Cleve Cole.  There is a small spring below Bogong summit near the track turnoff to the summit if you are desperate.

Hope that helps.

[speedmeup]

Yep i under-estimated the run..  It's tough going up (walked several sections) and tougher coming down due to the loose rocks. I didn't take enough water and regretted it. . had to take a drink from the little trickle stream near the top (not a good idea without purification tablets, but i figured better than dehydration).. lessons learnt!

[GeorgeB]

Thanks heaps Pastyboy!! Looking forward to this run now!! Hopefully i can gets my hands on the new Suunto Ambit before the 10th to put it through its paces going up Bogong!! Fingers crossed Suunto deliver as scheduled. If not I will just have to go back for a second time

[Whippet Man]

Thanks Pasty. I have all the splits bar one set and am waiting for those before I update the whole lot.
I think you will find Robin Rishworth holds the ascent record. Can't remember what it is but pretty sure he holds it.
I will have to check that 2011 split. Pretty sure Caz didn't lead the field to the top.

[RMC]

Whippet Man, on 25 January 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

I think you will find Robin Rishworth holds the ascent record. Can't remember what it is but pretty sure he holds it.

From everything I've read seems like Robin Rishworth holds it at 58 mins in 1987. See my link below ..

RMC, on 07 January 2009 - 01:34 PM, said:

For those of you who thought you were FAST at getting to the top of Mt Bogong. I found the 1987 Bogong to Hotham race report here. Robin Rishworth got to the Bogong summit in [58 mins] ! 16 started the race with only 3 finishing at Mt Hotham.

and when Andy Kromar did his 6.41 bogong-hotham, he did a 3.41 to Langford Gap!!

[Andolate]

speedmeup, on 25 January 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Yep i under-estimated the run..  It's tough going up (walked several sections) and tougher coming down due to the loose rocks. I didn't take enough water and regretted it. . had to take a drink from the little trickle stream near the top (not a good idea without purification tablets, but i figured better than dehydration).. lessons learnt!

No probs with the water up there. Some of the purest water one could ever drink.

[Pasty]

Yikes, Robin Rishworth's record is pretty substantial. That's a smoking time...

[Whippet Man]

Just for the more conservative it took me nearly 3 hours to the summit last weekend. I did have a 10kg pack and stopped at Bivouac Hut which has a water tank and now a 'flushing' loo! The descent was the following day and took around 2 hours but I had some kms in the legs and still a substantial pack, although lighter.

Of note that despite warm to hot weather when I left the summit of Bogong, within 1/2 hour of my arrival at Mountain Creek a massive storm front came through with branches crashing out of trees and the carpark turning into a river. I had passed many day walkers up the top in shorts and t-shirts and tiny daypacks and I am betting they had a very uncomfortable if not dangerous time up there.  

Thanks for the links RMC.

Pasty, I now have the final splits and when I get time will collate them all and transcribe them into a usable spreadsheet to load on the website.

[GeorgeB]

Hi All,

Just got back from the Bogong weekend and thought I would share my experience.

We camped at Mountain Creek Campground and started the run from there at 7:32am Sunday Morning as part of the annual Conquestathon. All seemed pretty easy until i got off track before I even got to the Staircase Spur. Went back and got onto the right track, cost me 2-3 minutes but no big deal.

Run was going extremely well and jogged the whole way up to Biovac Hut(checkpoint) where they wanted to see my event number/card, this was unexpected and since my girlfriend put it in my back pack for me had to take everything out to try to find the damn thing. Eventually I got that frustrated that i couldnt find the thing that I told them my name and set off again, cost me another 4-5 minutes.

The next half of the run was probably the hardest, kept jogging until just after the vegetation stopped then power hiked for 5 minutes, I could see the summit so got the extra energy so started running and turned left instead of right as i though that was the direction of the summit only to realise i was going down eskdale spur, luckily i turned back and ran as fast as i could to the actual summit. Another 3-4 minutes wasted. Finish time 9:28am. So total time was 1:56, about 1:42-1:45 without the delays.

Waited for the girlfriend at the summit and had a leisurely stroll going down.

But very happy overall, great scenery, great track, great workout, ridiculously cold at the summit!! Next time i wont take my back pack which weighed 5-6kg and only take 2 small bottles of water as i only drank 500-600ml on the way up. I think with these changes and stay on the right track sub 1:30 should be pretty achieveable.

Thanks again to all for the advice. Cant wait to go back agai!!

[GeorgeB]

Photo at the summit as proof :-)

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[Geej]

Great time GeorgeB! Course record is apparently 1hr 51m by Andy Kromar who sure was moving up the big fella when he overtook me so you weren't too far off.
If you reckon you can bring it in in sub 1hr 30 min that would a record that would be near impossible to beat!  Good luck!

Geej

[undercover brother]

Geej, on 16 March 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

Great time GeorgeB! Course record is apparently 1hr 51m by Andy Kromar...

i think george is talking about time to bogong summit not back down again.
the quick guys at bogong-hotham do around 70s as above.
people have gone sub 60 as a timetrial from memory.
but yeah i would be pretty happy with a 1.30 up there compared to kromar or an olympian!

Edited by undercover brother, 16 March 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[GeorgeB]

Geej i would love for that to have been my time up and down but sadly it was just coming up :-(

Honestly i think the guys that run down eskdale spur must have a few screws loose(i mean that in the nicest possible way) Especially the first half going down is so rocky and uneven i can see myself rolling or even worse breaking an ankle!

So yeah sub 1:30 is on the cards next time!! When i got to the summit i felt like i still had plenty in the tank so definately could have pushed harder(particulary the 2km before actually getting on the staircase spur) Anyone want to join me that would be great!! Nothing like having someone else to compete/pace against.

[Geej]

UCB thanks for that clarification.

George, mate if you are looking at ascending in 1.30 OR even less then no doubt you too will be tempted to set a cracking time going down as well!  I agree that first part down Eskdale is pretty steep - how people fly down there is beyond me. Respect!

Geej

[GeorgeB]

Just went again on the easter long weekend. A bit more prepared this time and was really excited to test out the new Suunto Ambit. Weather was perfect so was very lucky again.

Ended up getting to the summit in 1:34 so unfortunately didnt reach my goal of sub 1:30. Came back down Staircase Spur as well and found that a much more enjoyable run compared to Eskdale. Time down was 1:13.
Just means i will have to go back again soon and try again :-)

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[Cl@rkey]

The Bogong ascent is an interesting excercise.
I've been up 4 times, 3 of those have been under race conditions.

All 3 have been basically identical times, this is despite me being in differing states of fitness of endurance and hill climbing (or both). The running and/or lack of after Bogong has been testament to the differences.
My most efficient method to date is a run/walk mixture, and have often walked behind someone running at the same pace.

It has me wondering what it would require for me to get significantly faster on that (or similar) climbs.
I suspect that it would take a change in running style / cadence. An obvious answer would be to run more, but if that pushes me over the exertion limit then it's counter productive.

What have other multiple Bogong runners experienced?

[Mick]

I chose to just pick a steady pace I could maintain and didn't walk at all and got there in about 87. A guy with a camera told me I was about 5th.

I didn't take off from the car park with the rabbits and was probably about 15th at the start of the climb and slowly overtook people.

I found I was moving quite a bit faster on the steeper sections, but when it backed off the people who had walked the steeper sections were moving faster than me. I guess I needed to recover, so my pace was more even.

I prefered this approach as I didn't have to think about when to stop/start running, just kept it constant.

[Thebes]

GeorgeB, on 10 April 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Just went again on the easter long weekend. A bit more prepared this time and was really excited to test out the new Suunto Ambit. Weather was perfect so was very lucky again.

Ended up getting to the summit in 1:34 so unfortunately didnt reach my goal of sub 1:30. Came back down Staircase Spur as well and found that a much more enjoyable run compared to Eskdale. Time down was 1:13.
Just means i will have to go back again soon and try again :-)

How did you find the Suunto Ambit?

[GeorgeB]

Ambit was great!! As you can see from the graph it is a little off in terms of ascent/meters.

It has me at an altitude of 2014 meters at the peak. Bogong is 1989 meters high(or so we have been told). The following day I went up again(a lot slower obviously) and it had me at 2031 meters altitude at the peak. I understand that air pressure effects this but still a bit annoying having to change air pressures and altitude readings in the watch before you start your run.

Even still 20-30 meters is no big deal. I actually think it is pretty spot on overall in terms of km's, ascent/descent, speed and heart rate. It does all those things perfectly well.

One thing that is a gimmick is the whole PTE and recovery times. After my second time up Bogong it gave me a PTE of 1.6 and recovery time of 6 hours. Obviously that is way off as even today I am having some quad/ham pain. Not really sure what it means by recovery time, is it physical or mental? So anyone out there that is thinking of getting the watch because of those two features, i would think twice.

Other than that it does what it claims to do exteremely well and very tough and durable!!

[undercover brother]

off the top of my head its 1986m.
nice work george.
two 'reps' next time.
...joking

[GeorgeB]

undercover brother, on 10 April 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

off the top of my head its 1986m.
nice work george.
two 'reps' next time.
...joking

Sorry i was 3 meters off 1986 it is.

It was 2 reps, they were just 24 hours apart. :-)
The 2nd time up on Sunday it was with the Girlfriend and man i have never heard of so much excuses!! I even had plans to write/run our initials on top of the mountain so it shows up on the GPS map on movescount but her negativity put me off and I was just in a hurry to get off the damn mountain :-)