17 replies to this topic

[Davo]

Has anyone else had the experience that drinking coke (by which I mean good old coca-cola) helps to ward off cramp?
I had this experience in the Gold Coast 6 hour race, drinking some coke after about 3½ hours, and the cramps that were threatening me then disappeared.
On my long training run this weekend, exactly the same thing happened.
Now I know coke is full of sugar, and I had put a half teaspoon of sugar in the coke to take away the fizz. So all that sugar, plus the caffeine in coke, certainly stimulated me in the later stages. I was still shuffling, but at least I was shuffling happily!!  
But what intrigued me was that the threatening cramps in my calves also disappeared. Is there some scientific evidence that whatever ingredients there are in coke will alleviate cramp? Or perhaps it was all psychological?
Any comments from all you coke addicts?

[Colin]

Davo, on Aug 20 2006, 08:21 PM, said:

Is there some scientific evidence that whatever ingredients there are in coke will alleviate cramp? Or perhaps it was all psychological?

Our muscles use sugar (more specifically glucose) all the time as a preferred , fast energy source (there are other sources). If you run out of sugar in your bloodstream, you may shut down before the muscles actually do, because your brain and other vital organs require sugar. So there is some sort of regulation, i.e. many may not ever get to the stage where they are muscularly depleted, but the muscles may respond as if they are--including cramping.

Cramping may be caused by different factors, fatigue or energy depletion being one. Therefore it stands to reason that if your cramping is caused by that, then a quick doze of sugar will do the trick.

Coke has about 10% sugar (sucrose - a glucose+fructose), which is about two spoons in 100ml, and definitely a widely used drink in the latter stages of marathon running to get sugar quickly into the bloodstream.

Cheers

Edited by Colin, 20 August 2006 - 11:58 PM.

[Rudolf]

Davo, on Aug 20 2006, 08:21 PM, said:

Any comments from all you coke addicts?

I am cured, after my teenage years I did join the coke anonymous and went cold turkey.
So do not feel qualify to answer.
Research suggest that coke drinkers do not cramp generaly while stretched in coffin, only 1 case was documented - he was the author of the Hokky-Pokky song, when they put 1 of his leg in, the problem started
It is still not clear, if it was the result of coke depletion.

By the way, I always though, that sugar is freely available outside of the coke bottle, my gradma used to buy it in paperbags, it used to be white or/and brown. I am not sure anymore since it is many years ago since I went through sugar anonymous as well.

[Vegie-girl]

Rudi good to see you enjoying a laugh.  
I'm a bit worried about you going cold turkey though . . . I thought you were veg too?  

[Jogger]

This was sent to me by bees knees:

Quote

When I ran in a half marathon in Dubai UAE the people on the drinks station asked me if I wanted a drink of Coke, the thought made me feel ill. They said well, you're not South African, as all the SA runners drink coke.

In my own opinion, Coke works wonders on long runs, I hear it cures cancer too  

[Vegie-girl]

Yep, throw a really really dirty 10c piece into coke and see what happens after a few hours.  I'm sure it has many great qualities.  

Hey, in distance running you just do what you've gotta do don't you?

[Rudolf]

Vegie-girl, on Aug 21 2006, 10:34 AM, said:

I'm a bit worried about you going cold turkey though . . . I thought you were veg too?  

Yeah, well trying, but the flesh and blod is sooo tempting.

Watching the science show last night on TV about prehistoric animals eating each other, with the detail;s of teeth strenght, jaws bite strenght and calculations and demonstartion who can eat who,
and when they show how this beautifull terex (or whatever the saurus names was ) did bite of half of the pig
at 1 bite, I was so hungry, luckily no pig in fridge, ...
They do not make it easy for us vegs on Tv, do they ?

Back to coke - it is compulsory to serve it cold > If warm or heated to 37 degrees it smells like hell, but that is how it gets heated inside human body...

[Colin]

Whether we pretend  to dislike simple sugars or not it is nigh impossible to go through a day with actually eating it in some foods, be it fruit or veg, and it is impossible to survive without using it as a source of energy, whether we ingest it directly or it is broken down from complex sugars. Your brain , for example , will starve without the availibilty of glucose.

Now, it may not be necessary in the normal course of a day to voluntarily eat simple sugars, and it is detrimental to eat too much simple sugars, including coke, but at the tail end of marathons, if your body has run out of sugar, and your blood sugar is low the only way to address that is to consume simple sugar.

The liver breaks down complex sugars at the rate of about 1g/min and on average it take about 15g to run one km (not to mention that your brain needs simple sugars rather than complex sugars or fats).

So I agree that coke is unnecessary in the daily diet, and too much is detrimental, but there are few products more useful as a quick source of energy when you have hit the wall.

References to how it smells at 37 deg or whether it cleans/corrodes a dirty coin are meaningless. Many foods would do worse at those criteria and vinegar, for example, consumed in many foods, curries, pickles is much more corrosive.

But as I said its irrelevant, since the (necessary) acid in your stomach beats both at corrosivity, and we don't have a problem with that, since we don't really eat 10 cent coins.

btw, re the 'corrosivity' of cola; it is rather only 'rust removal', i.e. the iron oxide (rust) is converted to iron phosphate (which also gives the metal a black colour). Would only be a problem to us if we had any steel components in our digestive tubing.
The phosphoric acid content of normal coke is around 450ppm.(0.15g in one can)

Edited by Colin, 21 August 2006 - 12:57 PM.

[uriah]

Coke versus the Cramps?  I think Chilliman should weigh in on this one.

I believed it was the imbalance of salty electrolytes and water % that gave us the cramps?  That and more excercise than we are used to??

Most things written or said about coke are not true, check out "coke lore" on www.snopes.com

Colin seems to have answered the sugar bit.  Many fruits have more phosphoric acid per serving, especially when converted to juice.  And yes the body copes well enough, although whole fruits are better in the normal diet than just the juice.  It's all the other things in the raw fruit or vegies that our bodies have come to expect over thousand and thousands of years, cooking is a relatively new phenomonen; food processing (and chucking the good stuff out) is to new for our bodies to adapt to full time - use sparingly!!

I guess if you wanted to experiment, try diet cola?  No sugar should mean the cramps keep coming on?


And another thing, now that caffeine has come off the banned list.  I recently read that caffiene can restrict the blood flow to the heart during excercise:  http://www.nutraingr...ng.asp?id=65279  it is an early study but worth following.


Cheerio!

[Rudolf]

Colin, there is a planning process, which is supposed to prevent panick situations.
So in theory, the ultrarunner should not let the situation occur, when there is no sugar in the blod and the brain, and be forced to grab any quick fix.

Something like 2 wrongs does not make it right.

And for coke specificaly, there are "ingredients" appart from sugar, caffein and red colouring...

[uriah]

Rudolf, on Aug 20 2006, 09:55 PM, said:

Colin, there is a planning process, which is supposed to prevent panick situations.
So in theory, the ultrarunner should not let the situation occur, when there is no sugar in the blod and the brain, and be forced to grab any quick fix.

Something like 2 wrongs does not make it right.

And for coke specificaly, there are "ingredients" appart from sugar, caffein and red colouring...

Rudolf, you are quite right there are all sorts of ingredients in soft drinks that are out-of-balance with the base requirements of our body.  Even the water they use is too clean, no impurites, no minerals or anything they don't dose into it [count all bottled or canned health drinks in this too].

The sugar you used to get in bags was refined, even the 'raw' sugar which had a bit of molasses left on it was no substitue for getting sugar by munching on sugar cane or sugar beet.

Too often, I am starting to think, that we (as a society etc.) have become too hedonistic about food and drink.  The processed foods are all made to taste good, feel good, look good and smell good, and we are following our own market-researched, downward-spiralling path to ill health because of it.  I have participated in market research groups for tasting new processed foods; they measured mouth-feel and morishness etc.  but not long term health effects, or even my opinion on long-term health effects .

When food tastes great, and provides pleasure and entertainment is it any wonder that people eat too much?  What signal do you get to stop?  There is plenty of research coming out about the addictive properties of processed foods.  Great tasting food that is addictive and provides nutrients that are not what our body expects for health is the triple whammy.

I remember when I was told to eat my vegies because they were good for me, not because I would get some instantly pleasurable response.  I am certain the human body can take or adapt to a little amount of processed foods, but there is nothing as good for you as the real thing.

When was the last time you saw a headline thus:
"MAN EATS TOO MANY FRESH FRUIT AND VEGETABLES - BECOMES TOO HEALTHY!!"

(I will now turn left step down from my soap box).

Cheerio.

[Rudolf]

I have to disagree with lots of this :

Colin, on Aug 21 2006, 12:55 PM, said:

Whether we pretend  to dislike simple sugars or not it is nigh impossible to go through a day with actually eating it in some foods, be it fruit or veg, and it is impossible to survive without using it as a source of energy, whether we ingest it directly or it is broken down from complex sugars. Your brain , for example , will starve without the availibilty of glucose.

Now, it may not be necessary in the normal course of a day to voluntarily eat simple sugars, and it is detrimental to eat too much simple sugars, including coke, but at the tail end of marathons, if your body has run out of sugar, and your blood sugar is low the only way to address that is to consume simple sugar.

The liver breaks down complex sugars at the rate of about 1g/min and on average it take about 15g to run one km (not to mention that your brain needs simple sugars rather than complex sugars or fats).

So I agree that coke is unnecessary in the daily diet, and too much is detrimental, but there are few products more useful as a quick source of energy when you have hit the wall.

first of all, the running wall, is only relevant to sugar runners, who train and race on sugar metabolism
but is not relevant to fat runners who intentionaly train and race on fat metabolism, and there is a growing school of ultrarunners doing this.


Daily use of sugars - well, many times I did healing fasting for at least 36 hours or longer, and appart from clean heated water, green tea and lemon, there was nothing else I had, And I did run, walk, cycle, did light weigts etc to burn as much energy, calories and speed up the body cleaning process.

There are people on fasting for weeks, some for health reason some for political reasons.
Nobodys brain is dead from missing the sugar.

Lately there is many days, that my only food is cold press oil, nuts and some chease.

No comples carbs or simple suggars.

The invention of sugar is quite new in human development ( I do not want to use discredited word EVOLUTION).
For thousands of years human were living on protein and fat (Mamuts etc). In lots of countries, cultures etc, which were or are isolated, there is still no sugar or products available.

The fruit only last 2 centuries was genetically selected  for the sugar content, the apples of 200 years ago, were quite sour, containing minerals, vitamins and other stuff - enzymes, but virtually no sugar.

The hunters had fruit - beries only few weeks of summer, and than long period of winter with only animal protein and fat.

Eskimos did not have pasta, bread etc, lots of people living on fish only lost on sea,...

So there is nothing from the past to suggest that we were ment to live on sugars simple or complex.

The white bread or bakery products with jam, were the sunday breakfast in last few centuries - which was the intentional church strategy - to get people into hypoglycemic coma sunday morning, so they sit and listen in church, without ability to think, stay allert etc.

[Colin]

Rudolf,

I stressed the point that simple sugar is not necessary in daily diet. Complex sugar is however.

The body does not synthesise sugar from fats or protein. The brain (and the heart), requires sugar for energy, not fat or protein. Even if you fast or starve, you would be using the reserves of complex sugar storage, until one day you go into a coma--try it, you won't last forever. There would be a preference ( a governor) that uses sugar for the important organs and will use other energy sources for the less important activities.

If you run out of sugar--and you will if you don't consume anything, but continue to run, then the quickest way  to fix it is to take simple sugar. i didn't say the only way. You can take complex sugar, but you will have to wait for the breakdown products. Fat or protein will not revive someone in danger of passing out from low blood sugar.

If you don't understand biochemistry, or refuse to believe in it then don't continue to peddle a theory about how we lived in caves and that we should still be doing that.

If you look at your daily diet, unless you eat no fruit, veg etc, no sugar containing products at all, or even meats containing no sugar at all, then you can perhaps mount an argument. Otherwise you are being hypocritical.

Its my last post on it. I'm not here to convince people of high school biochemistry.

cheers

[Rudolf]

Colin, high school biochemistry is just that - high school biochemistry.

So You saying all the eskimos are dead.

Anyway, why it is always about convincing somebody about something ?

In high school biochemistry there was some simple theory, which described how current population in civilized countries lives usually.

The world is not dependent on the high school level of understanding, and is not also not dependant on uni level of understanding.
The world exists regardless what humans know or not.

[AzzaTas]

Rudolf, on Aug 21 2006, 06:26 PM, said:

Colin, high school biochemistry is just that - high school biochemistry.

So You saying all the eskimos are dead.

Anyway, why it is always about convincing somebody about something ?

In high school biochemistry there was some simple theory, which described how current population in civilized countries lives usually.

The world is not dependent on the high school level of understanding, and is not also not dependant on uni level of understanding.
The world exists regardless what humans know or not.

Rudolph, ive been looking at the VIS thread and now the coke one, and one guy was making an opinion in both of them, and then u shoot them in the foot, whats the go mate??

[Rudolf]

AzzaTas, on Aug 21 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

Rudolph, ive been looking at the VIS thread and now the coke one, and one guy was making an opinion in both of them, and then u shoot them in the foot, whats the go mate??

if I make the opinion, which is different or completely different, that is expressing my opinion, and not shooting anybodys legs.

Or in Your view, the first opinion stays and the rest just agrees, so there is no clash of opinions ?

[laotze]

Davo, after all that, perhaps it was no more than that you were able to drink enough of it to correct the fluid depletion that was bringing on the cramps.  Without the slightest scientific understanding, I know that footballers rarely suffer cramps now like they used to, despite running much more, because they are constantly re-hydrating.

I think I could run forever as long as I could remind myself to keep drinking more than I think I need.  (And could carry it).  But I confess that I have become a convert to a caffeine and sugar hit towards the end of marathons and longer runs.  I think it may be more psychological than physiological because I seem to get a boost as soon as I taste it - obviously before it can be absorbed and start to get into the blood stream.

[chilliman]

uriah said:

Coke versus the Cramps? I think Chilliman should weigh in on this one.

No worries uriah. Have lost count this year on how many times i have cramped at around the 28k mark on runs of 30k or more. Have tried numerous quick fixes and am in the process of hopefully some long term cures.

Hadn't tried coke at all until the 30k Sri Chinmoy run about a month ago. Had a cup of it at the 25k mark but like clockwork the quad and calf cramps hit at 28k. So no quick fix for me from this one, maybe if i'd drunk it at 20k, or filled the corrosion resistant fuel bottles with it, who knows ?

Since then, someone posted on CR regarding caffine having a negative effect on cramping. Desperate to try anything, I've cut out my traditional strong black coffee before the last couple of long runs and with the addition of a few other changes have been cramp free so far, touch wood. Latest 34k cramp free run report here BRT Run.
So a real 'coke/cramp' test should include:

1) straight coke
2) Diet coke - sugar free
3) Caffine free coke
4) Caffine free Diet coke - ie: coloured water

And what about all those other coke spinoffs, Vanilla, Lime, Cherry to name a few ?

Hanging out for Chilli coke to hit the market, just think of all that Vitamin C

Edited by chilliman, 22 August 2006 - 09:00 AM.