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#1 joey

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 05:33 PM

I want to know how much smoking effects one's running abililty? Has there ever been an elite runner who smokes? I have 2 close friends who have sustained a pack a day habit for over a decade and still run the army 2.4km cross country in under 8mins.

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#2 Beki

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 05:41 PM

I would imagine it would affect your performance heaps.  Reduction in the bodies ability to effectively carry oxygen around therefore reducing your endurance and stamina, not to mention reduced lung capacity making breathing hard to regulate.

I actually took up running as a means to stop me from smoking.  I knew that I would never be able to really improve my fitness if I kept up the smokes and I went cold turkey - haven't looked back since and my fitness improved in leaps and bounds :huh:

#3 RUN 422

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 05:42 PM

'Smoking' and 'Running' don't belong in the same sentence.

#4 Flying Dog

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:11 PM

Joey, you sure have picked a sour topic to post on this site.

Most army blokes are bloody fit to begin with, doing PT every morning, playing sport one afternoon a week and usually working out in the gym evey arvo after work.  Unfortunately the ADF still has a smoking is good culture - they beleive it is moral boosting and gives them something to do while they are sitting around waiting. (The moto "hurry up so you can wait" runs pretty true from what I hear).  They are thgouth to beleive that if you train hard, you will be bullet proof.  Combine this with being young and you're in for a smoke happy environment.  I'm still waiting for them to start an anti substance abuse campain.

My mum's partner has smoked most of his life and he still managed to do C2S 12 years in a row.  But he has always wondered why he could never crack 60 mins.  Might have had something to do with stamping out a smoke just before the start gun and lighting one up after the finish.

If you don't beleive it affects your performance, smoke heavily for a year and see what happens.  Then give up cold turkey for a year and see how you feel then.

Having said all that, there is 1 benefit from smoking:  you have a better chance of surviving a fire, but statistacally you will die earlier anyway.  Your body gets used to having an increased carbon monoxide/dioxide and decraesed oxygen level in the blood.  When you run and pant and sweat or when you stress you increase the oxygen levels in your blood, that's when you feel like a smoke.

Your army mates may look young fit and lean now, but when they hit 40, they will find it starts to affect their performance (and life expectancy).

#5 Ron1

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:46 PM

.

Edited by littleaussie, 02 August 2008 - 12:55 PM.


#6 Ultraphil

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:05 PM

Smoking!!! Yes something i personally abhor, especially being an ex-smoker!  It never did me any good, but I have witneessed the greyhound many times doing the 2.4km in the ADF who turns up has a smoke before he starts, runs 8 min and is fagging again before one finishes in 12 min! I wouldnt say that it's encouraged in the ADF, but whenever you go outside to have a break, one is usually met by a wall of smoke!


Phil

#7 KevinCassidy

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:46 PM

Smoking would be illegal if I had my way.   Having said that, the great Herb Elliott was reported to have enjoyed a smoke or two during his career.  Also, two winners of the Sydney to Melbourne ultra were 15 to 20 a day smokers!

One of our more prominent female runners of the late 80's and early 90's went through 10 a day during her prime years................however, she swore me to secrecy when I saw her puffing away at the local shops one day!!  I still don't know how she kept her secret from her coach and training partners as I have always found that smokers reek of the stuff 24 hours a day!

#8 run to the hills

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 09:06 PM

View Postjoey, on Aug 23 2006, 01:33 AM, said:

I have 2 close friends who have sustained a pack a day habit for over a decade and still run the army 2.4km cross country in under 8mins.

I think your friends are talking it up.

2 points.

1. It is not cross country but on sealed road over a even course. i.e. no constant down hill

2. The people I see running this test in that sort o time don't smoke. I would like to see the hard evidence.

Edited by run to the hills, 23 August 2006 - 09:16 PM.


#9 Grandpa

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 09:08 PM

I gave up running for 12 years and had difficulties coming back. Not the least of reasons was that I smoked cigars. Actually, they're probably better for you than cigarettes because its more a matter of taste than smoke absorption but when I got over the hard part of recommencing a running career at the age of 51, I gave smoking the flick. It doesn't tempt me at all now and I'm working on the drinking. I can actually go for a few days without a drink now!

I never believed smoking was beneficial in any way. It isn't even neutral. It is a detriment to running and anyone who smokes and runs doesn't value running highly enough.

If you want to be as good a smoker as you can be; go right ahead: the law is on your side.

If you want to be as good a runner as you can be, don't smoke!

Grandpa

#10 run to the hills

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 09:11 PM

View PostFlying Dog, on Aug 23 2006, 02:11 AM, said:

Most army blokes are bloody fit to begin with, doing PT every morning, playing sport one afternoon a week and usually working out in the gym evey arvo after work.  Unfortunately the ADF still has a smoking is good culture - they beleive it is moral boosting and gives them something to do while they are sitting around waiting. (The moto "hurry up so you can wait" runs pretty true from what I hear).  They are thgouth to beleive that if you train hard, you will be bullet proof.  Combine this with being young and you're in for a smoke happy environment.  I'm still waiting for them to start an anti substance abuse campain.


Your army mates may look young fit and lean now, but when they hit 40, they will find it starts to affect their performance (and life expectancy).

Where did you come across the moral boosting information?  A John Wayne movie!

Whoever fed you this is either crazy or a smoker who thinks it can't hurt.

#11 Frenchman

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:20 PM

8 min for 2.4k equates to about 17:40 for 5k. Although a reasonable performance, this is not what you would expect from superfit guys at the peak of their form. Even not at a state elite levels, on a regime of daily physical activity and regular running, these guys if they are that fit, should be able to run 5k in close to 16 min. So their current performance is about 10% below par. I realise that this is slightly speculative, not knowing much about the background of these runners, but it can't be anymore speculative than suggesting that smoking doesn't reduce running performance.

Gave up smoking about 3 years ago and can't stand the sight and smell of the stuff. Smoking is a touchy subject amongst ex-smokers of which there seems to be a few around here. But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about the many negative effects of tabacco and taking up running can be very effective in giving up.

Cheers
Michel

#12 SlimDJ

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:35 AM

View PostRUN 422, on Aug 23 2006, 01:42 AM, said:

'Smoking' and 'Running' don't belong in the same sentence.

At the age of 30 I gave up a pack a day.  I had been smoking for 15 years, and passive smoking for another 15.  Giving up was the hardest thing I have ever done and still struggle with the addiction every day (although I haven't had a single smoke for 4.5 years).

It is a puerile habit and on a running forum any discussion that glorifies same should be avoided.

A smoker that can run 2.4km in 8 minutes is robbing themself of a about a minute over 2.4km and about 20 years over their life.  Their love life will be crap, people will think they stink and young people who see them smoking in uniform will see another reason not to join the army (actually that may be a good thing).

#13 laracroft

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:53 AM

View PostSlim DJ, on Aug 23 2006, 05:35 PM, said:

View PostRUN 422, on Aug 23 2006, 01:42 AM, said:

'Smoking' and 'Running' don't belong in the same sentence.

At the age of 30 I gave up a pack a day.  I had been smoking for 15 years, and passive smoking for another 15.  Giving up was the hardest thing I have ever done and still struggle with the addiction every day (although I haven't had a single smoke for 4.5 years).

It is a puerile habit and on a running forum any discussion that glorifies same should be avoided.

A smoker that can run 2.4km in 8 minutes is robbing themself of a about a minute over 2.4km and about 20 years over their life.  Their love life will be crap, people will think they stink and young people who see them smoking in uniform will see another reason not to join the army (actually that may be a good thing).

Agree with you entirely Slim DJ! Smoking is gross, bad for your health, and it may sound harsh but it always taints my opinion of someone if I see them light up!

And it definitely would affect your running times!

#14 Beki

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 11:18 AM

View PostFrenchman, on Aug 23 2006, 10:20 PM, said:

Gave up smoking about 3 years ago and can't stand the sight and smell of the stuff. Smoking is a touchy subject amongst ex-smokers of which there seems to be a few around here.
Agree 100%

I especially hate it when I am out running and have to pass someone that is smoking - yuck!  Who the hell wants a lungful of second hand smoke when they are trying to improve their health and prolong their life?  It's funny, when I was a smoker, I never noticed the smell, now I can pick it a mile off and all I can think is "OMG - I smelt THAT bad???"

Smoking is something I will NEVER do again, I think it's a filthy, digusting habit and I just can't believe I did it for so long

And why is it that some smokers seem to think it's ok for them to litter?  I reported a driver I was behind the other day for throwing a cigarette out of their car window  :huh:

#15 Flying Dog

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 01:18 PM

View Postrun to the hills, on Aug 23 2006, 05:11 AM, said:

Where did you come across the moral boosting information?  A John Wayne movie!
Whoever fed you this is either crazy or a smoker who thinks it can't hurt.

Ok, so maybe I should clarify.  I have a few mates in the defence forces, most of which have smoked druing their stint.  I won't use any names  :huh: I'm not trying to glorify it, I'm just trying to pass on knowledge I have collected.

The first one went into the regular army and although he was partial to a smoke or 2 every now and then, he picked it up heavily during basic training (smoking as many winny reds as possible, whenever he had the chance).  He said that everyone smoked and they were under alot of stress and treated like crap the whole time.  When asked by a bloke that I lived with's father (who is an ex-serviceman) "do you think smoking has any effect on your fitness?" he replied "No, haven't noticed anything".  My mate's dad then commented, "neitehr did I when I was your age".  This blokes platoon gave up smoking, except when a new guy would come in and start everyone up again, then they would all quit cold turkey.  He went on to join the commandoes and is now uot of the forces and is a trainer with the airport terrorism dudes (can't remember their real name).

The next one is a very close mate that I spent alot of time with.  He started in the Army Reserve.  Growing up, he hated smoking and didn't understand why I did it (I still don't know).  As soon as he signed up, he started smoking.  He reported to me taht it is encouraged by the non-commisioned officers as a moral booster and that even the most anti smokers would have a puff to keep warm on a freezing morning out bush.  Apparently you can't smoke at night ut bush, but they would often use a cuppa to pass the time (from a thermos).  As teh sun went down, they would all stand aruond trying to get as much smoke into them as possible and occasionally they would catch someone out smoking under their bush hat using an infa-red setting on their nigth vision devices.  He has struggled with smoking ever since signing up, wanting to give it up, but no caring very much because he doesn't see the bad effects - yet.  He was always the fittest bloke in his batallion (you should see his red blood cell count), even before he started training, until he joined the Paratroopers.  They are a pretty hard bunch of blokes when it comes to work and play.  They have been on 60 mins a few years ago for beating up some guy for not pulling his weight.  My mate doesn't work-out anymore in the gym, he said he gets enough exercise to keep him fit through their daily physical training.  If he did bench presses the night before, it would be murphy's law that he'd have to do push-ups the next morning.  He said they play sport every thrusday afternoon too (bit like school really).  He introduced me to the phrase "hurry up so you can wait".  Every time they have to move long distances anywhere, they are ordered to do everything as quickly as possible, run everywhere and then when they are finally attheir pick-up point, they get told to wait, becasue the truck is not due for another 3 hours.  So they sit around and pass the time by smoking.  He is currently serving over in Iraq and is due back in late September.  You may have seen one of his mate's faces on the TV lately.

All I'm saying is that many people smoke in the defence forces, especially the younger ones, and I think it is because of the culture.

My personal opinion is that smoking is bad, mmkay.  From the second hand experiences of these two guys (and a few more) the army culture is to work hard and play hard.  Excessive drinking is a way of life for some of them and along with those comes smoking and fighting.  I'm not yet aware of any pathway tp change this from the Officers down to the OR's.

#16 Cowboy

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 01:49 PM

I can't believe people still smoke

#17 Loper

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 02:01 PM

One: of course smoking must place an extra burden on the whole oxygen-carrying system ( which is the body's life, after all), how much must be dependent on the individual's good or bad genetic fortune.  Two: Derek Clayton, the Aussie world record holder for the marathon which stood for something like a decade, enjoyed a pipe after a good long run.  Personally, if you want to achieve the best from your body it would be utterly ridiculous to take up smoking as part of your training, even though I have overheard a suggestion that there is a likely side-effect benefit similar to 'altitude training'.  I wouldn't rush out to take up smoking on the possibility - nor do I think that 'smoking' would get on the banned substance list as a performance enhancer!!  ;)   I would never stand on any kind of moral platform about it though, as both my parents smoked like steam-trains and I love 'em, warts 'n all.  Having been in the army for a number of years, smoking and beer-drinking was very nearly a forced requirement  (We were told in recruit school, after drill practice, : smoke, and if ya don't then go thru the actions.)  The peer group thing, like in any large group of blokes, is like a law.   As to being fit in the army, it was more a matter of being like 'hard' rather than 'finely tuned'.  In the end though, it doesn't matter what you do, you can take steroids or no doze or arsenic, or amphetamines, or guarana, or whatever, after about twelve hours on your feet, it all gets to be rather inconsequential, doesn't it?  (I'm determined that One day I'll speak from experience)  I means, it gets down to a struggling affair between your soul or essence and the naked, physical form your parents passed onto you.  Doesn't it?   Seems to be a bit immature to make moral or any kind of judgements on others about it.    :huh:

#18 uriah

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 02:09 PM

While it may be true that some champions smoked, they weren't champions because they smoked, rather in spite of it.  

Smoking kills, sooner or later.  More people die later from smoking than sooner.  If you are lucky enough something else will kill you before the smokes do.

A couple of things about the army example:
1.  They all medically screened before being allowed in the defence forces, anyone not normally fit to begin with is not allowed in.
2.  They are mostly young.
3.  The population is skewed toward 'risk-taking' behaviour.
4.  The smoking culture is extremley strong.

I would like to test for it over a 'population' but I am certain that mostly, one hundred fit non-smokers would beat 100 fit smokers over the same distance.

When I go for a run I can easily identify the smokers houses and cars by smell.

What made me give up?  The cost.  It was them or food.  And the fact that somewhere some fat so and so in a shiny office was plugged into my wallet, feeding on my addiction.  Luckily I got away from that too.

Cheerio!

#19 Flying Dog

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 04:59 PM

View PostCowboy, on Aug 23 2006, 09:49 PM, said:

I can't believe people still smoke
I can't believe people still ride horses
I can't believe it's not butter :huh:

On another note, there is an aussie long jumper, called Jai Taurima, who smokes and drinks.

But then again, I don't think long jump has all that much to do with training, it's more of a natural thing (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know anything about long jump, except that I'm hopeless at it).

Edited by Flying Dog, 24 August 2006 - 05:01 PM.


#20 Mango

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 10:23 PM

Of all the smokers I personally know, none of them are physically active unless you call golf a physically demanding sport  :huh:

There is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest smoking has a detrimental effect on athletic performance.  I find it amusing that there are people out there who honestly believe having a cigarette or two a day doesn't affect their health and they will not burden the health system in their old age when they have contracted emphysema.  I also believe these people are deluded...

#21 brizza

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:47 AM

I say to anyone who cares to listen,why do people over seventy almost never smoke,the occasional one,but rarely-answer-they are all dead

#22 Ultraphil

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:12 AM

Some very interesting discussion!  Even though I abhor smoking, there's enough discussion/thought/evidence out there for smokers to make up their own mind wether to smoke or not and it should keep being a choice!

#23 RUN 422

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:29 AM

Smoking-the invisible disease, but only for so long, by then it's too late. :huh:
All smokers do eventually quit, being dead has something to do with it. ;)
I could go on and on.

#24 Bristol City FC

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:25 PM

I'm a typical ex -smoker, hate the things and the smell of them, would quite happy have them banned from use in public!
I gave up over 20 years ago, but the odd thing is, I smoked 30 a day, (and for a short time was in the forces) yet I was more active and was able to run better than I can now! Maybe age has got something to do with the equation? Mind you I was not so fat when I smoked!
i think youth does give you an 'unbreakable' attitude. i gave up 'cause girlfriend at the time didnt like it, best thing I ever did. not smoking lastest, girlfriend didnt!

#25 HillsAths1

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 02:49 PM

Smokers Stink!

Got that out of my system I feel better now, and to get back to the topic. Jumping Jai did smoke during the Sydney Olympics, however he was not the only one. During the Pole Vault competition there was a constant flow of athlethes into the mens toilets so that some of the competitors could get a smoke(no allowed to smoke in stadium, so had to do it in secret) I am sure there are many such examples.

Notes Aussie sprinter John Dinan was a pipe smoker during his period as an elite athlete.

and in case you missed my earlier post Smokers Stink!

#26 brizza

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 04:47 PM

View PostUltraphil, on Aug 25 2006, 11:12 AM, said:

Some very interesting discussion!  Even though I abhor smoking, there's enough discussion/thought/evidence out there for smokers to make up their own mind wether to smoke or not and it should keep being a choice!
of course it should be a choice,but i would like the choice not to have the smoke wafting over me in restuarants,the beach,the street,i would like not to see people smoking over their kids,i would like to go to a pub or a party and not to have to wash all my clothes afterwards,i would like to not have to share the litter,the butts all over the place.this is not a good place to talk about smoking

#27 run to the hills

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:20 AM

View PostUltraphil, on Aug 24 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

Some very interesting discussion!  Even though I abhor smoking, there's enough discussion/thought/evidence out there for smokers to make up their own mind wether to smoke or not and it should keep being a choice!
Here is my choice: make airtight booths with an airlock so that no smoke escapes on entry and exit. Place one in every post code in Australia and make it illegal for anyone to smoke outside of it - even in your own home.
These booths would be funded and built by Phillip Morris and friends and smokers could go in there and passive smoke each other to death.
Now that is supporting smokers and helping them achieve thier aim.

#28 Ultraphil

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:51 AM

Thanks Brizza and Run to the Hills.

Brizza - agree with you one hundred percent. It's the main reason I dont like going out. One will come home smelling like a chimney!  I guess it's a quandry that I have to face! smokers have the right to smoke and I have the right not to breathe it in! :huh:

Interesting Orwellian concept Run to the Hills!  Perhaps we need to do the same for drinkers as well!  They can cause just as much damage to themselves and society!  ;) They just don't smell as repugnant (well usually they dont!)

Edited by Ultraphil, 26 August 2006 - 08:53 AM.


#29 Loper

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 06:26 PM

It is a strange topic for athletes to talk about, that's for sure.  I don't really know why I was attracted to it, probably only because when I had grown up I spent some time thinking about my childhood especially about how I never gave it a single thought when bedtime stories were always accompanied by my dad's cigarette, as he played 'aeroplanes' and stuff, with the burning end in the dark.  I don't remember ever smelling it, I was so use to it.  So I went to sleep most nights with my bedroom full of cigarette smoke, and so many years later I've given thought to the possible deleterious effects it could have had on me.  It is hard to believe that people back in the 6o's were so socially 'brainwashed' to think nothing of that sort of behaviour.  Anyone growing up in the 50's and 60's, and no doubt before, would have been surrounded by smokers, as though it was a natural part of the human condition.  I have read, a long time ago, that nicotine is more addictive than heroin.  However, lately I have heard much worse reports about the mind-boggling increase in such 'party' drugs as ecstacy, and the almost social acceptance of it.  That sort of thing makes me really mad.  Being a social worker looking after young homeless men I've seen the pitiful damage 'speed' does to young minds.  In university I was horrified by the addition of 'needle bins' in our toilets, whilst 'no smoking' signs were so numerous that the smokers were effectively ostracised.  There needs to be some sort of better perspective.  The young girls who died from 'e' at so called rave dances, would still be alive if they ducked out for a 'winnie' instead.   So many people would still be alive or not in wheel chairs, if all they were guilty of was having a smoke instead of getting pisst before getting behind the wheel.  I'm not supporting smoking, it's a terribly addictive, smelly and unhealthy habit, but compared to the other stuff going on, and increasing to an alarming extent, having a smoke is, relatively, a rather harmless and unjustifiably villified.  Maybe the other stuff is more acceptable because it don't smell.  Oh well, let's just keep running, and try to keep away from heavy traffic.  Those fumes couldn't be good for ya!   cheers.  Boy, that was a bit of a mouthful, wasn't it    :huh:  loper.

Edited by Loper, 26 August 2006 - 07:02 PM.


#30 run to the hills

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:32 PM

Quick insight into the smokers mind.

About 10 years ago I returned home from a 1 hour weight session in the gym and then LSD pace 15k run with a Gatorade in hand.

My then mother in law to be was standing at the back door wine in one hand menthol durry in the other and BTW she is about 20kg overweight. She is a nurse to boot and therefore nows when cigarettes are going to kill you.

With the scene set she takes a drag of menthol freshness and says "You know those sports drinks rot your teeth?"

I was lost for words.

#31 Loper

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:41 PM

Good one, 'Hills!  I don't know how many people have said to me about my running (because I'm addicted to it) that it will kill me.  But hey, hardly any of us are gunna avoid dying some day - and I think I can think of worse ways to go then out on a track or whilst running along a country road, almost already in heaven.  :huh:

#32 joey

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:50 PM

Since I opened this can of worms I should give my two cents worth. I had a feeling people may get a little fired up about a smoking question on this forum. But it is just as legitimate as a alcohol and running question and ive seen heaps of them getting around in the past. The reason I posted this question was because I love to smoke tobacco from time to time. I used to be a full time smoker but over the past 5 or so years will only have a couple of cigarettes with a beer maybe once every couple of months and genuinely enjoy the experience. I donít smoke more regularly because it poses such a massive health risk and is a repulsive looking habit. Like most people I think smoking in public places is not on. But I also think that the stigma associated with smoking and smokers is misplaced when alcohol consumption is so widely accepted and much worse (not to say I donít like a beer). In my day to day work I have been required to attend countless vehicle rescues, car crashes, assaults and other terrible things that are alcohol related. I suppose though that I may have a different view on this if I worked at the oncology unit at a hospital. I think it is unfair for people to just blow off at the suggestion that a runner might smoke. Smoking was a past time far before running became one.

Who knows maybe ill die of lung cancer or maybe ill get run over by a drunk tomorrow while im jogging to work. Regardless of what happens I will be cranking out my 50km per week (body withstanding) until that time comes and hopefully enjoying my beer and cigarette from time to time too. Infact I have a mandatory marathon warm down session of half a dozen schooners and a cigarette or two. Not as scientifically proven recovery method as icing the legs and wearing skins.......each to their own. Thanks for some good posts everyone.

PS just thought of another elite smoker.......Warney!!! Id be surprised if he could run out of sight on a dark stormy and foggy night though.

#33 Steve 'The Footman'

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:04 AM

There have been a number of smoking threads in the past and many became quite heated.  Run to the hills your very funny anecdote also illustrates the smokers defence that something else is more harmful or just as bad.  Loper's rationalisation that "compared to the other stuff going on, and increasing to an alarming extent, having a smoke is, relatively, a rather harmless and unjustifiably villified." is simply not supported by the evidence.  The fact that alcohol is also addictive, is abused by many people, and has innocent victims does not make smoking OK.  There is no minimum amount of smoking that is good for you while alcohol in moderation has proven health benefits.  The health consequences of smoking on our society is a huge drain with early mortality and increased morbidity.  No other drug including amphetimes, heroin and other illegal drugs have the same impact on societal health.  In fact the health impact of all the other drugs in society combined does not have the same negative effect as smoking.  And that is beside the fact that it is a disgusting anti-social habit.  The fact that if you smoke - you will almost certainly die earlier and in more pain has not turned all smokers off smoking.  Social vilification may be more effective for the intransigents.  The sooner smoking is eliminated from our society the better.

When it comes to the effect of smoking on running it can only be negative.  Racing someone who does not smoke is the same as racing them when they are at sea level and you are running at altitude.  

I am sick of having to hold my breath when I enter a building.

Just QUIT :huh:

#34 Loper

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:24 AM

Steve, I hope you never get into politics and become a national leader.  I'd be desperately searching for a free country to emigrate to.  I suppose I shouldn't have tried comparing drugs, but the social villification thing really makes me mad, especially when I see old pics of soldiers from WW2, having a puff in between episodes of slaughter and chaos.  I can take it or leave it, it simply doesn't matter.  I'll give a hug to anyone who needs it, and I certainly wouldn't hesitate and calculate and judge whether they deserve it because I smelt tobacco smoke on them.    Get real.  By the time you get near 50 you should have experienced enough hardship to be able to say: "What's it matter?  People know what they're doing, most smokers hate it too, and they hate being called "smokers" - they are people, believe it or not.   :huh:

#35 MizukiNoguchi

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:30 AM

What is sooo good about 8min for 2.4km's. It's not even close to 3min per km pace.
Smokers stink, that's enough reason to give up  :huh:

#36 Steve 'The Footman'

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 02:24 PM

Loper, no plans to get into politics. :huh:  Dont look for a solution to the smoking problem from politicians.  Governments are too addicted on smoking taxes to look at the long term financial benefit of eliminating smoking.  The only thing that has worked to reduce smoking is the majority public belief that smoking is harmful, socialy unacceptable and disgusting.  The pendlelum has swung enough that most people think smokers should no longer have the right to pollute non-smokers environment with their bad habits.  

No more than twenty years ago smokers enjoyed the right to smoke and few people questioned that right.  In the past smoking was seen as cool and sophisticated.  Thanks to the revelations of the evil marketing practices of cigarette companies and the proof that second hand smoke is harmful, the current view of smokers is closer to the mark.  That is they are patsies of multinational corporations, too stupid to see the evidence and too weak to change their behavior.  Smokers who continue to argue the case for their right to smoke are seen as selfish boors.

I have the utmost admiration for smokers who are able to quit one of the most addictive habits around.  I also applaud anyone who continues to try to quit even if they fail.  I pity those still caught in the addiction.  But I have nothing but contempt for anyone who continues to downplay the adverse effects of smoking.

But back to the topic.  Bill Rogers was a pack a day smoker in his early twenties while working as a hospital orderly in the early 1970's.  After quiting he went on to win the Boston marathon multiple times and be one of the most successful marathoners of his generation.  He also ran 2:09 at the Melbourne marathon.  The performance reduction affects can be completely reversed for many smokers once they quit.

So JUST QUIT ;)

#37 ackers2

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:07 PM

View PostUltraphil, on Aug 25 2006, 11:12 AM, said:

Some very interesting discussion!  Even though I abhor smoking, there's enough discussion/thought/evidence out there for smokers to make up their own mind wether to smoke or not and it should keep being a choice!
Choice!??  Why should it be some mindless wanker's choice to totally ruin my morning run by blowing a cloud of cancer fumes into my face?????

Strange that there are a countless number of substances that are now banned in many countries because of their possibly adverse health affects, but smoking still seems to be considered a personal choice?

We all have to breathe the same air don't we?

Why not just shoot them, they're gonna die anyway....  (yes, I know that's a bit harsh...)

#38 Ultraphil

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:19 PM

Ok. So im a bit "small l" liberal in my views sometimes! I admit that scenario does peeve me off as well Ackers2!

#39 ackers2

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:49 AM

View Postrun to the hills, on Aug 26 2006, 08:20 AM, said:

Here is my choice: make airtight booths with an airlock so that no smoke escapes on entry and exit. Place one in every post code in Australia and make it illegal for anyone to smoke outside of it - even in your own home.
These booths would be funded and built by Phillip Morris and friends and smokers could go in there and passive smoke each other to death.
Now that is supporting smokers and helping them achieve thier aim.

Actually I saw just this recently in Japan. I doubt that it was paid for by the likes of Philip Morris et al. So the idea is possibly not as far fetched as it may seem.

Also unlike here you can walk through a market without being gassed to death. Its apparently socially unnaceptable to smoke amongst public gatherings of people. However its a completely different matter in the resturaunts for some reason....

#40 Suzanne

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 04:27 PM

CONFESSION: I am an ex-smoker  :huh:

I'm glad I never bumped into run for the hills during my smoking years! I would never have had the chance to reform after a stint in the air-tight booth!

Perhaps we could expand this topic to include everybody with a remotely offensive habit or addiction! Everything from heroin addiction to alcoholism could be included and we could provide helpful suggestions to eradicate the problem (for example: alcoholics could be thrown into a pool of beer with slippery sides to prevent escape)

There is a time in everybodys life when we do things that other people question, or don't agree with - I think that we should all bear this in mind before being ridiculously judgemental towards others.  

I'm not usually prone to making such well-meaning statements, but was annoyed by general depiction of smokers as awful, thoughtless people.

I just find it strange that companies are still allowed to create a product which is designed to be addictive and kill you at the same time?!?!

Oh, and I was a terrible runner when I smoked...but I still am now  ;)

Suzanne

#41 Trinh

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 11:35 AM

I've done cross country and track throughout highschool. I've always been a great runner.  I'm in the army now and Just recently started smoking.  I don't chain smoke but have one once in a while.  My run time didn't decrease but improved a lot! I'm not lying. I know it's ironic to hear smoking going along with running but I'm relying on my experience as for my arguement.

I think You can still be a great runner if you start to smoke AFTER you become a very good runner.  Every runner has experienced hyperventilation during a race or training.  Hyperventilating can have effects on the body such as dizziness, numbness, and especially chest pain.  You will most likely hyperventilate even if you've never touched a cigarette in your entire life.  During your running, your lungs expand to it's fullest to take in as much air which is more than the body would need in that single breathe.  Therefore it will reduce the carbon hydroxide concentration in the blood below normal.  Hyperventilating will cause acid level to increase in the blood.  That's the burning feeling you get in your legs which makes it harder to run and causes you to lose motivation to run. Eventually you will learn how to control you breathing and prevent hyperventilating.  I can out run many people in my group after smoking a cigarette the night before.  I've never hyperventilate the morning after smoking since I started smoking. My endurance and speed has improved.

Smoking can be beneficial depending on how you use it.  If you smoked most your life and started running then of course it will be hard.  You should run more than you smoke.  Don't abuse your smoking and turning it into an everyday habit.  Use it when you start to hyperventilate often and having trouble controlling it.  In my opinion, don't take advice from people who says that smoking is "bad" as they were taught in elementary school like robots. Take advice from people who have experience in them.

My experience my not work for everybody. It's not scientifically proven but I'm just going off my experiences and beliefs.

#42 Bellthorpe

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 11:41 AM

You've really got to wonder sometimes.

This is either the most stupid poster to grace the hallowed halls of CoolRunning, or a colossal piss-take. We won't know until (or if) we see a few more posts from this person.


#43 Rabbits

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:23 PM

View PostTrinh, on Jul 20 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

I've done cross country and track throughout highschool. I've always been a great runner.  I'm in the army now and Just recently started smoking.  I don't chain smoke but have one once in a while.  My run time didn't decrease but improved a lot! I'm not lying. I know it's ironic to hear smoking going along with running but I'm relying on my experience as for my arguement.

I think You can still be a great runner if you start to smoke AFTER you become a very good runner.  Every runner has experienced hyperventilation during a race or training.  Hyperventilating can have effects on the body such as dizziness, numbness, and especially chest pain.  You will most likely hyperventilate even if you've never touched a cigarette in your entire life.  During your running, your lungs expand to it's fullest to take in as much air which is more than the body would need in that single breathe.  Therefore it will reduce the carbon hydroxide concentration in the blood below normal.  Hyperventilating will cause acid level to increase in the blood.  That's the burning feeling you get in your legs which makes it harder to run and causes you to lose motivation to run. Eventually you will learn how to control you breathing and prevent hyperventilating.  I can out run many people in my group after smoking a cigarette the night before.  I've never hyperventilate the morning after smoking since I started smoking. My endurance and speed has improved.

Smoking can be beneficial depending on how you use it.  If you smoked most your life and started running then of course it will be hard.  You should run more than you smoke.  Don't abuse your smoking and turning it into an everyday habit.  Use it when you start to hyperventilate often and having trouble controlling it.  In my opinion, don't take advice from people who says that smoking is "bad" as they were taught in elementary school like robots. Take advice from people who have experience in them.

My experience my not work for everybody. It's not scientifically proven but I'm just going off my experiences and beliefs.

Hi Trinh,

I try not to get involved in heated arguments on these forums but I can't read a post which downplays the dangers of smoking without responding. Smoking kills people every day!!! If we were to 'take advice from people who have experience in them' then we would not be hearing about their enhanced athletic performance but rather of the deadly consequences of smoking such as lung cancer, emphysema, cardiovascular disease, etc. My own knowledge of the deadly effects of smoking is not based on what I was 'taught in elementary school' but on the deadly pathological changes caused by smoking that I see on a daily basis.

Nothing saddens me more than seeing a young person of 13-14 smoking and possibly setting themself up for a lifetime of poor health and premature death.

Please don't suggest that anybody should smoke for any reason and I hope you can research its affects more carefully and reconsider your recent decision to take up the habit. I respect your right to smoke but I'm amazed that anyone would take up the habit if they fully understand the consequences of their behaviour.

Take care.

Rabbits

#44 loubee

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:34 PM

View PostTrinh, on Jul 20 2008, 09:35 AM, said:

Smoking can be beneficial depending on how you use it.  If you smoked most your life and started running then of course it will be hard.  You should run more than you smoke.  Don't abuse your smoking and turning it into an everyday habit.  Use it when you start to hyperventilate often and having trouble controlling it.  In my opinion, don't take advice from people who says that smoking is "bad" as they were taught in elementary school like robots. Take advice from people who have experience in them.

Surely this is a joke. :blush:
The only people to benefit from smoking are the drug companies.  :)

Your improvement will not be due to taking up smoking but due the increase in exercise and fitness in joining the army. So take my advice as a reformed smoker............. STOP NOW.

#45 Bellthorpe

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:52 PM

View PostRabbits, on Jul 20 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

Smoking kills people every day!!!

Not really. Smoking doesn't 'cause' lung cancer. It increases the risk of getting it.

#46 dropbear

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:57 PM

Two problems with running and smoking:

- don't one's durries go out much quicker when running?
- while I concede the fags could be stored in a rolled-over CR-brand T-shirt, where does one (comfortably) store one's lighter or (more painful still) matchbox?


db.

#47 aura111

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:02 PM

agree with the others that the approach to this poster should be one of extreme caution.

this is the just the kind of tactics that tobacco companies like to engage in of late - wouldn't be surprised if a net bot scanning this forum  had turned up the word "smoking" and called home to head office and then we have someone from the PR dept attempting to mold perceptions.

In my opinion you can NEVER be TOO paranoid/careful when it comes to these scum s**ckers - big tobacco in it's dying throes is one of the most evil forces at work in the world today.

this is an interesting read on their manipulative tactics:
http://www.idrc.ca/e...1-DO_TOPIC.html

#48 slowjogger

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:06 PM

View PostBellthorpe, on Jul 20 2008, 11:52 AM, said:

Not really. Smoking doesn't 'cause' lung cancer. It increases the risk of getting it.

It does cause emphysema.  Try watching your dad with that condition and then say smoking has benefits.

#49 Bellthorpe

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:16 PM

Huh? I didn't say that smoking has any benefits.

I said it doesn't 'cause' cancer. It increases your risk of getting it.

It doesn't 'cause' emphysema either. It increases your risk of getting it.


#50 Colsy

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:25 PM

Trinh must have sen this: