546 replies to this topic

[Morts]

I've started doing some trail running in my Asics Kayano's and although they are great road shoes,
I feel every stone or rock that I step on. I also find I lose traction on steep hills.

I would like to know what other Kayano runners use for Trail shoes ( I overpronate so I would like to find the equivalent Trail shoe) and are trail shoes worth the expense or should I persevere with the
kayano's.

[Kato]

A pretty well respected local runner who works at a running shoe shop, trailbunny/tugger has an article here.

[Morts]

Thanks Kato, I noticed in the threads after the article where you wear Kayano's. Have you also gone for a trail shoe if so which one?

[Kato]

Morts, I don't yet. I have to make some time to try some on. The problem is, most of the smaller specialist running shops are miles from my place - and the chain stores have no clue at all. I think trail shoes will be a good idea for me at least, because of the additional life I'll get from my road shoes.

Edited by Kato, 29 December 2006 - 07:33 AM.

[MikeyBoy]

I have started running a few trails and wear my kayanos. While you are right about the feel of the terrain, I don't find it that bad and also put it down to a big rock is a big rock and I think you would feel the unevenness in any shoe. I've been a bit puzzled by all this lately and have had a look at a few trail shoes, and as the article says that a trail shoe is only good where the shoe can get grip into a surface, when you're on a large smooth rock face then where's the benefit? So for the moment I'm sticking with my kayanos. Am doing the black stump run on Monday where the terrain is a bit of everything and I'm sure my kayanos will be just right. Will let you know, though.

[inekuips]

I have a pair of Mizuno Wave Nemesis for running roads, and I have started using my Salomon XA Pro's (which I bought for Rogaining) for trails. I found the Mizuno's a little unstable on rough terrain, particularly with the horseshoe shaped heel cushioning. Tends to roll under a bit on rocks, plus (as mentioned before) they tend to pick up some gravel or worse, larger rocks, which get stuck in the centre of the horseshoe and you have to stop and get them out.
The Salomons are a bit lower to the ground, and the grip is great. Really breathable and quick drying. I did a 24hr Rogaine in them when they were brand new, and was comfortable the whole time. I can still feel rocks underfoot though... maybe that is a bit of 'The Princess and the Pea' syndrome?

[tank girl]

MikeyBoy, on Dec 29 2006, 08:50 AM, said:

I have started running a few trails and wear my kayanos. While you are right about the feel of the terrain, I don't find it that bad and also put it down to a big rock is a big rock and I think you would feel the unevenness in any shoe. I've been a bit puzzled by all this lately and have had a look at a few trail shoes, and as the article says that a trail shoe is only good where the shoe can get grip into a surface, when you're on a large smooth rock face then where's the benefit? So for the moment I'm sticking with my kayanos. Am doing the black stump run on Monday where the terrain is a bit of everything and I'm sure my kayanos will be just right. Will let you know, though.

MikeyBoy, trail and adventure racing shoes come with many different tread pattern and sole materials for the many different types of terrain that could dominate a particular area. Big tread patterns are awesome for very loose surfaces and mud but won't help so much on big rocks. Smaller or flatter tread is often used on shoes for rocks (big rocks and especially when wet) but these shoes tend to have a special softer rubber sole which is designed to grip the surface better (think climbing shoes, but not as extreme). If you've ever been out for a run in the rain and then stepped onto someone's lovely tiled driveway, you'll see just how well standard running shoes do on wet rock.

The biggest effect that a great trail shoe has is to improve your confidence on descending and cornering quickly, by giving you a feel of better control and balance. Find your weakness (mine was simply that I didn't trust my shoes on loose surfaces and was therefore hesitant to keep my weight forward), use the shoes until you are confident, and then experiment again with road shoes. You'll find you still run fast, even down hills and around corners, and on less technical trails they might make you faster.

[mattyv]

I use Brooks Cascadia for rocky single track running, and Kayano's for everything else. I obviously know I'm in a different shoe, but it doesn't seem to cause any discomfort or injury. I find that for rocky track running, Kayano's are too high, increasing the chance of ankle sprain, and provide little in the way of sole protection. The ballistic shield which I thought was pure marketing hype in the Cascadia, really works. I had tried the Asics Trabucco before the Cascadia, but found it too hot, too soft, gave no sole protection, and held water once it entered throught the top.
I truly recommend the Cascadia for when the terrain gets serious, and they seem to compliment the Kayano well.

[Whippet Man]

Tried on some Teva X1C's today. Very comfy. Unfortunately they don't do 1/2 sizes above 11's and I need 11.5. I would love to try on some Cascadias (being a Brooks fan) but no-one stocks them locally. Looks like a trip to the big smoke.

[samplesize]

hi CC's, especially Morts,

sounds like your geography may limit your choice in footwear options.

from a true sneaker freaker, here are some points (some already mentioned) you should consider in a trail running shoe

obviously terrain makes a difference - lets assume uneven, gravelly ground wet and dry with the occasional rock for the sake of the argument

low profile midsole - the closer you are to the ground the less likely you are to roll - also provides better 'feel' of the surface you are on (proprioception) which increases your body's instinctive protective reactions and reduces the risk of injury

grip - some multi directional and chunky lugs (grip patterns and design) will provide adequate traction

reinforced upper - especially on the lateral and medial (outer and inner) sides of the shoe and toe protection - will provide better side to side stability, ascending and descending at speed

not necessary to have as much, if any, dual density - having medial support in your shoe (duomax in Kayanos) over long term use on trail surfaces can compress the lateral aspect of the midsole and promote foot and ankle rolls

the right fit - fit is critical in any performance shoe - you can modify or change innersoles to provide a better fit

although I don't like to favour brands or models, the Brooks Cascadia is one of the serious trail shoes on the market at the moment

good luck in your quest

samplesize

Edited by samplesize, 02 January 2007 - 11:20 PM.

[Whippet Man]

Ok, ok, I'm convinced. I want to try a pair of Cascadias. Do any Melbourne CRs know who actually stocks them?

[Morts]

Thanks everyone... Always good to learn from other runners experiences and knowledge...
I'm off for a checkup at the podiatrist very soon, so I'll get his advice and
then I should be in a position to make an informed decision....

[samplesize]

Whippet Man,

depends on where u are in Melbourne - I know that some of The Athlete's Foot stores stock them and other running specialists, but your best bet is to contact Brooks themselves and find out who might stock them in your area - the distributor is Texas Peak - (03) 9338 5099.

hope it helps!

samplesize

[MikeyBoy]

Thanks for the info Tank Girl and SampleSize! What I did notice doing the Black Stump run in my kayanos was that the soles of my feet were incredibly sore in the latter stages. I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that I never run for 4 hours before, the rocky terrain (at times), or both. There is certainly plenty of food for thought. The experimentation continues....

[Whippet Man]

samplesize, on Jan 3 2007, 09:47 PM, said:

Whippet Man,

depends on where u are in Melbourne - I know that some of The Athlete's Foot stores stock them and other running specialists, but your best bet is to contact Brooks themselves and find out who might stock them in your area - the distributor is Texas Peak - (03) 9338 5099.

hope it helps!

samplesize

Thanks samplesize. I'll give them a ring. Might save me some driving around.

[Scottie77]

Just bought some Cascadia's on Thursday, were on special at Rebel. Will let you know how they go. Giving them a 30k bash out on Six Foot Track in the morning.

Been wearing them around work to break them in. Great grip on office carpet

[MikeyBoy]

Scottie77, on Jan 5 2007, 11:55 AM, said:

Just bought some Cascadia's on Thursday, were on special at Rebel. Will let you know how they go. Giving them a 30k bash out on Six Foot Track in the morning.

Which Rebel Sport store did you go to Scottie? Might have to do the same thing if you come back with a favourable report, although I could use them on Sunday for exactly what you're doing.

[Scottie77]

MikeyBoy, on Jan 4 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

Which Rebel Sport store did you go to Scottie? Might have to do the same thing if you come back with a favourable report, although I could use them on Sunday for exactly what you're doing.

Heya. I went to the one in the City. They had a couple of pairs on special. Depends what size you are. I know they had 11.5 & 12. I grabbed the 12.

Best bet give em a call and see what they have left, save a trip in. They might even have them at Chatswood. Ill try and post a report on Sat afternoon when i get back to civilisation

[Whippet Man]

After speaking to Brooks yesterday I did a ring around Melbourne and only found one store way over on the other side of town that had any Cascadia in stock. Many say they can order them in so I might have to go down that road but I had been hoping to try them out at the 2 Bays Trail Fatass this weekend.....Gees, how hard can it be to buy a pair of runners?

[Virtual]

After being rather disappointed with my Montrail Continental Divides. I have been using Loco Mojos on the trail. I replaced the inner sole because it has a fair bit of heel lift. But the sole is grippy and there seems to be adequate stone protection. The sole seems to detach where it overlaps the toe but a bit of contact cement fixes that. They are sold as a motion control shoe but the narrowness allows a fair bit of lateral/medial "trail feel". I have been eyeing off inov-8 for Western States. But I may stay with the loco.. Have no idea what I'll wear to Cradle Mtn in a few weeks. If I ask my trusted advisor I'll probably end up in KT26's.. We'll see how the locos pull up from this weekend's 2 Bays Trail Fat Ass..

[Scottie77]

Well i certainly gave the new Brooks a good thrashing on Sat. I found them really good, they bit into the dirt really well and gave me plenty of control going up Mini Mini without slippage and running back down i didnt get any slips either although i certainly felt like i was going to on the steeper sections.

Plunged through Cox's river and they dried out ok. They are not looking as bright though but thats understandable . Looking forward to more runs in them. No blisters either which was good.

How did your training go MikeyBoy?

Great Track. I can see why its so popular

[MikeyBoy]

That's good to hear Scottie! I did a ring around a number of places looking for Cascadias. Rebel Sport in the City said that there is a 2007 model just about to be released and that they weren't getting anymore of the older stock. I then found that ASICS have the Trabuco (which I'm not really fussed on) as well as the Trail Sensor WR (whatever the WR means?). The Trail Sensor is meant to have a rock protection plate as well as being quite a light shoe (for what it is). No one carries this shoe either. No one wants to get in a couple of sizes so I can make sure I get the best fitting shoe. Everyone wants a guarantee that I'll buy even if the shoe doesn't fit well. (Why do shoe manufacturers have such a large catalogue when everyone only stocks a few of the range?) ASICS fit me far better than Brooks, so I'm hoping to be able to try on the Trail Sensor somewhere and that it'll be just right.

Didn't manage to run on Sunday after a blistering run on Saturday as well as the Black Stump on the Monday.

[justcurious]

Hey I'm new on here, just discovered this looking for some reviews on the new Mizuno Nirvana 3's but thought i might have sme trail shoe advice anyway. I work at Amart All Sports and my boyfriend wears ASICS eagle trails, he wears a kayano or simillar on the road for the pronation so whoever was asking about that there's something to think about. Also the eagle trails have a gortex upper and a lifetime gaurantee on being waterproof, they are good too we poured an entire bucket of water over the front of them- none got inside. Traction and everything like that on them is good too. ANyway just something else to throw in the mix as i didn't think anyone had mentioned them.

[kazz]

justcurious,
The only problem with your theory of "we poured an entire bucket of water over the front of them- none got inside" is if you run through watercrossings, (which many of us do), that are so deep they comes up over the top of the shoe and often almost up to your knees( which happens more often than not) you need your shoe to be able to drain it out...this won't happen to shoes you can pour water over the front of and they don't get wet, the water would stay inside it's waterproof coating. You'd end up with squelshy wet wrinkley feet and probably blisters from the poor ventilation and drainage.
With my shoes, after the water gets in, it doesn't take long at all till it's drained out and you feet just feel like a regular humid training run!! Traction is the main issue, for me anyway, than waterproofing.
BTW, almost all my running is in the trails and I've tried the waterproof asics type you've mentioned. What I have stated is my personal experience.
My most favourite trail shoe to date is the Mizuno Wave Ascend..does everything I need it to do and fits just great!!

kazz.

[rodthehornet]

Looking around to get some trail shoes. Have been wearing Asics Nimbus on the trails, but the kms are taking their toll and mainly finding grip on the downhills to be a problem.

After reading threads, Brooks Cascadia seem to be the shoe of choice, but I am also keen on trying on Asics Trabuco. Anyone know where in Sydney you can get them at the right price????

Went and checked out Pauls Warehouse locally and they had no Brooks and Trabuco only in womens. I was ready to do some cross dressing, but they only had up to 11W which did not allow me to get my foot in.

The Hornet

[Whippet Man]

I've given up trying to find a pair of Cascadias to even try on. I'm getting some Teva X1-Cs that I hope will do for trails up to about 50km. Beyond that I still need to find an eventual replacement for my fav Leona Divides but that won't be for a while yet. I'll post a review on the Tevas after Maroondah 50.

[Virtual]

Whippet Man, on Jan 21 2007, 10:39 PM, said:

I've given up trying to find a pair of Cascadias to even try on. I'm getting some Teva X1-Cs that I hope will do for trails up to about 50km. Beyond that I still need to find an eventual replacement for my fav Leona Divides but that won't be for a while yet. I'll post a review on the Tevas after Maroondah 50.

Looks like the Cascadia is listed as available at intraining in Qld. According to the site Tugger is the Marketing Manager

33 Park Road, Milton (just opposite the Eiffel Tower)
Phone: 07. 3367 3088
http://www.intrainin...m.au/shoes.html

[Whippet Man]

Virtual, on Jan 21 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

Looks like the Cascadia is listed as available at intraining in Qld. According to the site Tugger is the Marketing Manager

33 Park Road, Milton (just opposite the Eiffel Tower)
Phone: 07. 3367 3088
http://www.intrainin...m.au/shoes.html

Thanks Virtual. I need to try them on before I buy, though. The new model is due out soon but I couldn't wait and it seems very few are going to stock them anyhow. A bird in the hand........

[RMC]

Virtual, on Jan 5 2007, 07:40 PM, said:

After being rather disappointed with my Montrail Continental Divides..

Interesting Virtual. I too have been disappointed in my Continental Divides. Done about 300k in them since last Sept and they still are very stiff. Not too bad for a 10-15k rough trail run but anything over 2 hours and my feet are looking for some relief.

I believe Leo Russell's in Melb are looking to stock some Asic Trabuco's this year. Certainly the cheapest Asic's dealer in Melb so I make check them out again soon.

[tim]

anyone run in the nike free trails? I have been running a bit in my frees of late and then saw the trail version in a shop on the Gold Coast and was wondering how far you could go in them.

[weary]

Whippet Man, on Jan 21 2007, 09:39 PM, said:

I've given up trying to find a pair of Cascadias to even try on. I'm getting some Teva X1-Cs that I hope will do for trails up to about 50km. Beyond that I still need to find an eventual replacement for my fav Leona Divides but that won't be for a while yet. I'll post a review on the Tevas after Maroondah 50.

There were Cascadias at Rebel Sport Bourke Street last week.

I want some!

[Mister G]

I have a pair of Trail Frees and have done a few short ones in them. They are more stable and have a thicker, more protective sole than the normal Free, but no toe protection and a very soft upper. Probably good for dirt paths but not seriously gnarly stuff.

I've been disappointed in my Cascadias. I found them very stiff and as a result pretty uncomfortable for running on fire trails or anything more packed down than that. They were billed as a shoe that could be used on roads when required (ie running to a trailhead) if need be, but this is not the case. On the really rough stuff they are fine, but I'll be sticking to Asics I think.

[tank girl]

Virtual, on Jan 21 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

Looks like the Cascadia is listed as available at intraining in Qld. According to the site Tugger is the Marketing Manager

Yeah... they should probably amend that information.

[knight60]

Morts

I bought a pair of NB807s at Sportsco last year during a sale ($70). I wear them when trail running and reckon they do the job OK. It's mostly prety rugged, rocky, stony, loose and dusty trail running that I do - not much water around (especially last few months) so not sure how they'd go in the wet or muddy terrain.

[Kelvin]

tim, on Jan 22 2007, 09:56 AM, said:

anyone run in the nike free trails? I have been running a bit in my frees of late and then saw the trail version in a shop on the Gold Coast and was wondering how far you could go in them.

Tim, haven't tried the actual trail version but certainly have found the normal Nike Frees to be great on trails, used them in the last month for the Two Bays 56KM fatass, and before that Mount Nebo 50K's as well as my own 40 odd K's at Binna Burra on New Years eve, previously used them at Brindabella and the Feathertop 50 Skyrun and find them really good.
I'd be honest and say i'll have to have a look at the Nike clearence centre reasonably soon as i've got close to 600 K's out of them and they are starting to get a bit ragged (and the damned velcro - which this model has instead of laces is now getting a tendency to undo !).
These are the ones

[Koala1]

Hi - I've been running in a pair of Keen trail shoes since about November, which I have found really good. For road shoes I run in the Nimbus, but since running in the Keen Humboldts, I've grown to prefer them to the nimbus.

The Humboldts are light, give good grip on the trails (been running mainly on trails in the Blue Mountains, including several times on the Six Foot track as well as many trails in the Blackheath surrounds) and they seem to work on everything. Some of my trail runs involve starting on the road for a short distance and they work on the roads too.

Couldn't ask for anything more really - you don't feel the stones, they have good tread and if they get wet (they are not waterproof), they dry out quickly. Actually, there is one more thing I could ask for and thats a shop to buy my next pair, as the shop I originally bought them from doesn't sell them anymore!!! So if anyone knows a place that sells Keen Humboldts, please let me know!

[Kelvin]

Regarding the above post, this is the only details i could get on Keen Humboldts certainly they look pretty good on the net, but can't see buying online as an option i'd take.
Interesting to note on the Keen footwear site that if you press Australia on the store locator section it takes you to the New Zealand site (and NZ addresses) only.

Edited by Kelvin, 23 January 2007 - 05:57 AM.

[tank girl]

Anaconda stocks Keens, but not sure if they stock that model.

[Whippet Man]

Yippee. Just picked up possibly the last pair of 11.5 Montrail Leona Divides on the planet for less than $70! I now have enough pairs to see me through to WS and beyond. Despite a few hiccups, I also managed to order some Teva X1-Cs to try on the shorter stuff. I love shopping for shoes.

[Will]

For those looking for Brooks Cascadias in Sydney, just found some in Athlete's Foot Westfield Bondi Junction. In Mens, they now only have a size 9 and a size 9,5. In Womens, they have everything.

[Greg_Waite]

I recently bought a pair of Asics Mojaves, they seem to sell regularly at Rebel Sports for $140 & were marked down to $120 as sizes got short. They're a pretty good buy for everyday trail training. Best feature is a very comfy sock liner, so the tongue doesn't slip around & create pressure points. They have good durable grip and unlike most ASICS the mesh is a bit more durable (though still breathable). Another nice point I noticed on bush trails was they have a fairly solid turnup of rubber at the front, so if you kick the odd rock when tired (which lets face it, who doesn't) it won't hurt

[Scottie77]

Heya. Id like to give a bit of report on how the Cascadias are going, and get some imput on others who have them. Or similar shoes.

Ive been out 3 or 4 times now with them all on course at Six Foot, including the recent Megalong FatAss event. I noticed yesterday that the front part of the shoe tread seems to have taken a fair bit of battering. Shredded the little black tread down to the orange if you have ever looked at a pair.

I guess this could be from me braking a fair bit heading back down both Pluvi and Mini. As the trail is pretty rough and rocky. Whats the general wear and tear on a pair of trail shoes like? Or is it sucking the life out of them training on Six Foot

Poor things arnt as bright as they used to be. Any tips for washing? Or leave them be to build up character

[Bandanna]

Scottie77, on Feb 5 2007, 02:04 PM, said:

Poor things arnt as bright as they used to be. Any tips for washing? Or leave them be to build up character

Scottie,

You will find that your shoes will never be the same again after Six Foot. And neither will you

Forget about washing your shoes. The accumulated blood, grime and dirt is part of the mystique that sets trail runners apart from those that only pound the city pavements

[kazz]

Scottie77,

You just need to run through a few water crossings occasionally!!

Works for me!!

kazz.

Edited by kazz, 06 February 2007 - 01:36 PM.

[MikeyBoy]

Hey, following the discussion from some months ago now about trail shoes I thought I would provide an update of my experiences. I was initially quite keen to get a hold of a pair of the Brooks Cascadia but had trouble getting them in my size, then I was told that the 2007 model was due and that old stock was low. In the meantime I heard about the Asics Trail Sensors and did a bit of research on them. I ended up buying these and have sense taken them for a few runs on the road and some easy trails. They are extremely comfortable! Just like my Kayanos. However, I have yet to test them on something like the surface at Six Foot Track. I am doing a long run this weekend so that will be an interesting indicator of comfort.

Not a bad pair of shoes.

[Whippet Man]

My Teva X1-C's arrived today. Will take them for a spin on the trails tomorrow. They sure feel comfy. And light. I'll post a report tomorrow on how they hold up. Unfortunately I won't get to test their celebrated water drainage feature as my trails are crispy dry at the moment. I'll save that for the Cox's crossing.

[RMC]

Leo Russell's in Melbourne now stock TRAIL SHOES including Trail Sensors for $180 cash only. Best to ring to confirm they have your size before turning up.

Leo Russell's
24 Gilbert Rd
West Preston
Tel 03 9484 1343

[Virtual]

I can report that after two races my Coninental Divides are stuffed. they didn't handle Brindbella and the soles completely disintegrted last weekend at Cradle. I've ordered some inov-8 terroc's..

[Whippet Man]

I really like the look of the inov-8s but availability in Oz is a problem.

I took my new Tevas for a spin today. Put in 4 hours on some hilly trail with a good mix of surfaces including technical singletrack, open firetrail, hard packed dirt, hard packed gravel, loose gravel and dirt and stones, steep ups and downs, beach sand, rough and some smooth rock. Pretty much everything except slick granite and mud, but I reckon they would do well in mud with the wide open waffle tread. They handled it all without any trouble. I felt confident on the steeper descents and didn't have any slippage. Straight out of the box they felt good with only a bit of rub on a little toe after a couple of hours. This is because the toe-box is a bit narrow and would limit how far I could wear them: probably only up to 50km. I was surprised how supportive they were for such a light shoe. I would love to wear them through some water to test out their drainage which should be exceptional given the venting. Rating? I am always going to be tough given the comparison will be with my beloved Leonas, which I think are the best trail shoe ever made, and I'd like to put a few kms into them before I draw any conclusions. But they have good potential for shorter trail runs.

[rodthehornet]

Been scouring ebay in the US and scooped a pair of Trabuco and a pair of Cascadia for $90AUS each including shipping. Too many decisions on trying to work out what to go for, so took both. Waiting by the letterbox to take delivery and then work out what pair to take on 6 foot.

Mrs. Hornet is not happy.