28 replies to this topic

[Greg]

OK,

I'm going to ruffle some feathers, but....

Surely the pain in the domain interval groups can find a better place to send groups of 30-40 (estimate only) people hurtling along a path, instead of the main sightseeing/tourist path along the harbour in the botanic gardens.

Apart from the front runners, no one can see whats coming up ahead, and with families, toddlers, school children and other joggers wandering around I am surprised no-one has been taken out.

A 70kg man, traveling at 17-20km/h is going to do some damage to a 2 year old that just saw a duckie to chase after.

I do intervals along there, but I generally train on my own, I get out of the way for walkers/kids, and I can clearly see what's coming up. I just about went for a swim yesterday when one of the groups came charging towards me, taking up the entire width of the path, luckily my running style means that there is always an elbow sticking out to protect myself :-)

My point is, there is a time and a place, and lucnhtime, in a public tourist place, is neither the time nor the place for large groups of runners.

Anyway, that's my little rant over. (nearly)
Do people pay to join in 'pain in the domain'?
if so, who or what is the organisation behind it?
how up to date is they're public liability insurance?
Do they have coucil permission to generate revenue in a public space?

zip, zip, zip (sound of greg putting on flame retardant suit)

Edited by Greg, 24 January 2007 - 01:13 PM.

[langswm]

Lots of views, Greg, but no replies (where's Action when you need him?). So I thought I'd give it a go...

As the Run Guide page for PITD says, this is not an "organised" run per se. No-one pays to do it, no-one is profiting from it, and accordingly, no-one needs to seek public liability insurance or Parks permission. You, as a runner, will be subject to the same common law duty of care rules as the rest of the community, and hence if you knock someone and injure them over while running, and are proved to be negligent, may be held liable. This is no different to anyone else who may or may not happen to be running with a PITD group, or indeed on their own.

Your point about one of the intervals (ie. the 730m around the foreshore), does have some validity. However the rest of the (6k) run is pretty much pedestrian-free. In addition, this really is not so different to any group of runners, or bike-riders for that matter, who happen to get together on a regular basis for runs or rides around various parts of Sydney. If you happen to be in Centennial Park between 6-7am any morning-you will know what I mean-it can be total pandemonium in there with walkers, runners, riders (on bike and horse), and the odd car, all mixing it up in a glorious mish-mash of confusion.

In any event, even the 730m sprint is really only a problem at this time of year for about a month (summer, school holidays etc). For the rest of the year it is really a pretty clear path.

PITD has been around for at least 12 years (probably much more) and has been of great benefit (at zero cost) for many many CDB workers and non-workers, and, to my limited knowledge, has never caused any major inconvenience to the general public.

So, come one mate, lighten up a bit-come and join the fun!. Much more interesting than your individual rep sessions

[Greg]

Tks Mark, I'm mostly just venting after nearly being taken out twice by two groups yesterday. Second time around I ended up in the middle of the path with half the pack going either side of me in the opposite direction (and a couple of middle of the pack runners not quite seeing me in time).

I much prefer doing my speedwork on my own or maybe with one or two other people, that way I do the session that I'm meant to, at the pace I'm meant to.

Yes, it is a bit busier at the moment than it is in June

I'll just have to wear elbow pads for the next few weeks.....

Hope the training for Gold Coast is on track, and yes, seems the fish aren't biting today (not that I was trying to start an argument - there are many more qualified people around here than me for that....)

[gettingslower]

Its a year or so on, but I thought I'd re-open this thread as there have an increasing number of problems with PITD over the 07/08 summer as the number of runners has increased.

I've run this workout on and off since the early 90's and regularly lead groups when I am in town. As an occasional de facto session leader (hell, I dont really want to do it but few seem interested in getting the workout away on time), its getting a little tiresome having people come up (including Parks people again) and complain almost each week about the potential or actual (someone knocked down last week) danger posed by the larger groups particularly on the gate to gate section. Over the years I have done the session, I think the problem of dangerous running is now as bad as its been.

Although its hard to keep an informal group in order, CR's can assist by getting the message out to all PITD runners to be more considerate, to actually follow group leaders suggestions to run narrow rather than in wide groups on the paths etc, and to keep the group sizes down. Its a great Sydney institution, and it would be a shame to see it fold because of safety issues which, at the end of the day, should be manageable.

Perhaps there are some alternative days where the same or a similar workout could be run to ease the congestion? Any other suggestions welcome...

[BasilBrush]

gettingslower, on Feb 13 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

Its a year or so on, but I thought I'd re-open this thread as there have an increasing number of problems with PITD over the 07/08 summer as the number of runners has increased.

I've run this workout on and off since the early 90's and regularly lead groups when I am in town. As an occasional de facto session leader (hell, I dont really want to do it but few seem interested in getting the workout away on time), its getting a little tiresome having people come up (including Parks people again) and complain almost each week about the potential or actual (someone knocked down last week) danger posed by the larger groups particularly on the gate to gate section. Over the years I have done the session, I think the problem of dangerous running is now as bad as its been.

Although its hard to keep an informal group in order, CR's can assist by getting the message out to all PITD runners to be more considerate, to actually follow group leaders suggestions to run narrow rather than in wide groups on the paths etc, and to keep the group sizes down. Its a great Sydney institution, and it would be a shame to see it fold because of safety issues which, at the end of the day, should be manageable.

Perhaps there are some alternative days where the same or a similar workout could be run to ease the congestion? Any other suggestions welcome...

If the cowboys don't pull their collective heads in, I can see the council considering disallowing runners along the bitumen pathways. That would mean all, not just boot camps/PITD. After all the council wouldn't want to get sued by injured American tourists, do they now?

BB.

[FakePlasticTrees]

Quote

Went out for a nice peaceful tuesday lunchtime run around farm cove today. It looks like many people had "Go back to Pain in the Domain" as their new year resolution. Nice to see that people are hoping to improve their running. It'd be better if they just weren't f**king dickheads about it.

The groups were massive and taking no heed of anyone else on the path. I encountered them as they were sprinting from the Opera House to the Moonlight Cinema. Like a herd of sweaty buffalo they trampled anybody in their way. Tourists scattered and cowered behind upraised hands so as not to be squashed. I, myself a rather large gent, felt for my safety at times.

For f**ks sake people the paths are not there solely for your benefit, and although you get caught up in the mob mentality you have to consider the other people out there. There were kids who had to scamper to get out of your way. It only takes a few complaints from the walkers and sight-seers before clampdowns will take place on the groups. I've never run PITD but I plan to at some point and want it to still exist when I get around to it.

This is what I posted to another thread earlier in January as I didn't know about this thread. gettingslower I hope you can find some solution for this.

[Colin]

langswm, on Jan 24 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

As the Run Guide page for PITD says, this is not an "organised" run per se. No-one pays to do it, no-one is profiting from it, and accordingly, no-one needs to seek public liability insurance or Parks permission. You, as a runner, will be subject to the same common law duty of care rules as the rest of the community, and hence if you knock someone and injure them over while running, and are proved to be negligent, may be held liable. This is no different to anyone else who may or may not happen to be running with a PITD group, or indeed on their own.

Wouldn't like to see this tested in court. If a group runs at a particular place once or twice, or at random times then the group is not responsible for others actions.
If its a long time regular 'event' with a de facto organiser, leaders and the group takes on a life of its own etc then there may be a different case. This is the reason why some 'clubs' do not advertise their training runs as a 'club' run.

The quote below would almost be enough, my emboldened bits in particular show organisation, contination, leadership and warnings of problems... which may be why moderators (esp those involved) are loathe to comment or give support.

gettingslower, on Feb 13 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

I've run this workout on and off since the early 90's and regularly lead groups when I am in town. As an occasional de facto session leader (hell, I dont really want to do it but few seem interested in getting the workout away on time), its getting a little tiresome having people come up (including Parks people again) and complain almost each week about the potential or actual (someone knocked down last week) danger posed by the larger groups particularly on the gate to gate section. Over the years I have done the session, I think the problem of dangerous running is now as bad as its been.

Although its hard to keep an informal group in order, ..... Its a great Sydney institution,

When someone is injured, his lawyer is unlikely to be suing the poorest bloke... why not the whole group, or the leader.

Take care guys.

Edited by Colin, 13 February 2008 - 02:17 PM.

[langswm]

I must admit I havent been to Pain for a while as my Tuesday sessions now comprise Sean's own special brand of Pain at the Centennial Park hills. Must get down there again and see what's going on.

Cant but help think that complaints about Pain are about as common and long standing as complaints about the pace of the 6.00 and 6.10 Sydney Striders running groups!

[FakePlasticTrees]

langswm, on Feb 13 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

Cant but help think that complaints about Pain are about as common and long standing as complaints about the pace of the 6.00 and 6.10 Sydney Striders running groups!

Sometimes it's even the same complainant

[mja]

BasilBrush, on Feb 12 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

If the cowboys don't pull their collective heads in, I can see the council considering disallowing runners along the bitumen pathways. That would mean all, not just boot camps/PITD. After all the council wouldn't want to get sued by injured American tourists, do they now?

BB.

I have been running in the domain / gardens for 25 years and would say this group is the worst its ever been.
Running 6+ abreast is a joke. Some people need to park their egos before some small child gets really hurt.

(and for the record I like running int's, I can run sub min4ks and am running 60ks a week - so I am not whining 'cause I cant join in and hang on)

PS ... once upon a time the Corp Cup was run through the gardens, it was stopped because of complaints and risk.

Edited by mja, 10 April 2008 - 10:14 PM.

[chrisbr]

Is there some reason why they can't split into more groups? To obvious a solution I guess.

[dickyboy]

chrisbr, on Apr 10 2008, 02:14 PM, said:

Is there some reason why they can't split into more groups? To obvious a solution I guess.

I reckon they should limit each group to 12-15 people, enforced by the "unofficial" group leaders.

If, in busy periods, that means that there are 10 groups leaving over a 10 minute period rather than 5 over 5 minutes, so be it. I'm sure people would soon get the hang of turning up a couple of minutes late to start in later groups.

There was a state MP who proposed banning CBD runners last year & the Corp Cup just got a complaint from the Botanics Trust for a couple of bad manners runners last week, so its not unrealistic to think that people could try & take action. How it would be policed, who knows, but are we not better to take pre-emptive steps before someone does something to stop it.

Another alternative would be to run a parallel group at 8am ? Maybe that could split the load ?
Or, what about alternating with a new PiD around Observatory Hill, as more people are working in other parts of the city (e.g. Darling Harbour/King St).

Edited by dickyboy, 10 April 2008 - 05:34 PM.

[RedRunner]

Yes I agree with PITD - great idea and I used to go but I think the groups are currently too big - I think reducing the size to 10 max would be better - the gardens and walking paths are for people to have a peaceful walk around not having to dodge out of the way of packs of runners - individuals/pairs are fine but it's a bit inconsiderate for walkers - i think that this is an issue not just in the gardens but other parks where big groups of fitness groups/boot camps etc are disturbing the peace - people just need to be more considerate without park authorities having to get involved...that's all it will take - PITD run leaders can lead the way by minimising the groups -

[theAuthor]

I've been a regular at Pain for around the last three years. I would agree that there are now problems as the groups becoming larger and larger. This was probably most aptly summed up when last year, with the QM2 berthed in Garden Island and thousands of Sydneysiders pouring into the Domain people kept running as hard and fast as they could.

Whilst I consider Pain a great training session, its really not worth causing anyone an injury by running full speed into any other Domain user. In the case of the QM2 day, I realised that it was stupid to keep sprinting and decided to slow jog home rather than do the fast part around Farm Cove.

Edmund Capon (Director of the Art Gallery of NSW) recently was quoted in the SMH as saying that Sydney needed "more art and less joggers". In some ways I sympathise with his opinions, particularly when you do see large groups such as Pain behaving in a less than respectful way to the other users in the Domain.

I think that we can all do our part to improve the perception of runners within the Domain. Trying to encourage people to run in the group most appropriate to their pace, to not run 6 abrest across the path, to not have to require the starters to shout five times for a few to show up in Group 1 leaving 50 people to go in Group 4.

Could I make one suggestion to runners who regularly use the domain whether for Pain or their own training. At around this time last year I wrote to the Botanic Gardens Trust and thanked them for all the work which they did to keep the Gardens in the excellent shapes that they are kept in. I explained to them that I was a runner and how I must it meant to me that I was able to train the in Gardens. I also made a donation to the Trust for their work. In return I got a beautifully written thank you letter from the Trust which made me feel that this was worthwhile.

I know that many people may feel that they pay tax already and it is not their responsibility to further pay for the upkeep of the gardens. I don't want to debate that point. What I would say it if more runners were to try and be good citizens, run responsibly, say thank you for our beautiful city and its gardens and dare I say even make donations (over $2 is tax deductable), then this might make us be thought of in a more positive light.

[Greg]

Wow
Great to see an old thread revived. Of course there are many informal groups that run along that section of pathway, and I think that the biggest issue with PITD is the size of the groups, rather than the activity they are undertaking.

After all, there are plenty of faster runners that run around there than the pain groups (no - not me, although if you look 50-100m in front of me you might spot them )

[FakePlasticTrees]

Greg, on Apr 11 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Wow
Great to see an old thread revived. Of course there are many informal groups that run along that section of pathway, and I think that the biggest issue with PITD is the size of the groups, rather than the activity they are undertaking.

Yeah, I almost got annihilated by a couple of morons who were charging up the Woollomooloo side of Mrs Macs chair near Boy Charlton pool. Then I almost got taken out by a group of 4 abreast walkers. Then some idiot almost got wiped out by a bus turning a corner because he wasn't paying attention to the traffic whilst conversing and leaning out into it. Then I almost wiped out a stupid woman who'd decided to cross the street whilst inspecting the contents of her massive handbag. Do people actually realise that other people exist?

The whole thing seems to be about being considerate and understanding that other people might want to do their thing in the same region as you. PITDs farm cove gate to gate sprint is about pummelling as many spectators into submission as possible. I see smaller groups doing intervals around there and they manage to avoid every one else.

Dickyboy's suggestions sound good. Maybe move it to morning. Split it into a tuesday and a thursday group, that's most peoples speedwork days anyway.

Edited by FakePlasticTrees, 11 April 2008 - 02:11 PM.

[TehAxe]

first time PITD today. My n00b perspective:
I was in group3 which was somewhat "oversubscribed" with what felt like at least 30 people, maybe more.
(group 1 had about 5, group 2 apx 15)
I don't think any individual runner in group3 was being inconsiderate or arrogant, but the effect of that many people running in one group makes the group as a whole seem very inconsiderate and arrogant. There was several frightened looks from pedestrians and even a couple of gasps - and today was a quiet day for walkers as there was intermittent rain.
Agree with others on group size. Ideally I think each group should cap itself at 15

[dickyboy]

Acquell, on Apr 15 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

first time PITD today. My n00b perspective:
I was in group3 which was somewhat "oversubscribed" with what felt like at least 30 people, maybe more.
(group 1 had about 5, group 2 apx 15)
I don't think any individual runner in group3 was being inconsiderate or arrogant, but the effect of that many people running in one group makes the group as a whole seem very inconsiderate and arrogant. There was several frightened looks from pedestrians and even a couple of gasps - and today was a quiet day for walkers as there was intermittent rain.
Agree with others on group size. Ideally I think each group should cap itself at 15

I steered clear of PiD today but saw groups 1 - 3 go off. As Acquell says, group 3 was scary just by numbers, if not attitude, and a nicer day would have seen chaos. Not that there are any official leaders, but I seriously recommend the unofficial leaders and/or group pacers to encourage groups to split.

[MissZ]

dickyboy, on Apr 15 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

I steered clear of PiD today but saw groups 1 - 3 go off. As Acquell says, group 3 was scary just by numbers, if not attitude, and a nicer day would have seen chaos. Not that there are any official leaders, but I seriously recommend the unofficial leaders and/or group pacers to encourage groups to split.

It was really bad today. Group 5 would have been close to 40 people. I kept calling out to people to "keep left", watch for pedestrians, etc but some of our fellow runners seemed uninterested. I really love this run though, so I am resolved to do my best to encourage everyone to do the right thing and form smaller groups.

[Ewoksta]

Hi,

I am going to do PITD today for the first time. I usually run around 57-60 mins for the 10k. Will there be a group I can tag on to or are they all faster than this?

Want to try and change my speed training and thought this would be great, but it seems that it is mainly for the faster runners from the threads that I have read.

Any help would be great.

Cheers
Andrew

[TehAxe]

Ewoksta, on Jun 3 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

Hi,

I am going to do PITD today for the first time. I usually run around 57-60 mins for the 10k. Will there be a group I can tag on to or are they all faster than this?

Want to try and change my speed training and thought this would be great, but it seems that it is mainly for the faster runners from the threads that I have read.

Any help would be great.

Cheers
Andrew

go in the last group. See how long you can keep up for. If you drop off the back, you can just continue your run by yourself.
I've been dropped once, no big deal, just made me more determined for next time.

[Mars]

mja, on Apr 9 2008, 07:28 PM, said:

PS ... once upon a time the Corp Cup was run through the gardens, it was stopped because of complaints and risk.

Yes the Pain in The Domain course is the old Corporate Cup Course.

I remember when we used to do the Pain religiously back in 1994/ 95 / 96. There were about 10-20 people who would do it and there was only one group.

It is great to see so many people doing it now and enjoying their fitness.

Love Mars.

[Ewoksta]

Went in the last group, got dropped a little but managed to catch up when they were doing there slow jog recovery. Managed to keep up with most of the pack all the way. Awesome experience and will definately be back for more.

Cheers
Andrew

[sheff]

I have been running in the PITD for many years now. I can certainly sympathise with the people who feet frightened or threatened when a group of 20-30 runners are bearing down on them at speed. I agree with limiting the group size to say 15. On occasions the 'marshalls' sending the groups off at the start do attempt to limit the group sizes, but this is by no means done on a consistent basis.

As noted by several people, the main section of concern is the 730m 'gate-to-gate' section. I have suggested on several ocassions that this section be run on the grass (just abutting the outside edge of the path), but this suggestion has not to date been favoured. While this would not be the perfect solution, I feel it would be a safer option than running on the pathway. However, perhaps the Botanic Gardens Trust may not be enthusiatic with 60+ runners trampling over the grass apron as it will not do the lawn the world of good.

There is another short section run on the pavement finishing at the stairs which also has the potential to cause problem with pedestrians. This too could be run on the grass.

I don't think there is much chance of willingly moving the time and/or the general location of the run as it has become an institution over the years.

Re liability in case of an accident, to my knowledge there have been attempts (I think by the Trust) to determine who the organisers are so they could 1) warn them of the consequences if someone was hurt by a PITD runner, and 2) influence a change in the route taken. This has not been succesful simply because it is not organised by any group or individual. It is simply a bunch of city workers who turn up if they feel like it each Tues to go for a run through the gardens. Yes it has the characteristics of being an organised run, however it lacks an organiser (official or otherwise). The Trust was successful with making route changes to the Corp Cup because there is a group of people who actually oganise/manage this event.

Sheff

[dropbear]

sheff, on Jun 4 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

Re liability in case of an accident, to my knowledge there have been attempts (I think by the Trust) to determine who the organisers are so they could 1) warn them of the consequences if someone was hurt by a PITD runner, and 2) influence a change in the route taken. This has not been succesful simply because it is not organised by any group or individual. It is simply a bunch of city workers who turn up if they feel like it each Tues to go for a run through the gardens. Yes it has the characteristics of being an organised run, however it lacks an organiser (official or otherwise). The Trust was successful with making route changes to the Corp Cup because there is a group of people who actually oganise/manage this event.

Sheff

Sheff,

I'm agin the PITD. The "disorganised" PITD seems to organise itself so well at the same time and place each lunchtime, and they somehow manage (disorganised though they may be) to run hell-for-leather around the Domain in a seemingly consistent speed and direction. Bugger me, the same individuals are seen at the front of every group despite the clear lack of cohesion!

I'm one who has been scared during the PITD gate-to-gate 'running of the bulls'. I suggest it will come to a halt when an elderly tourist is knocked over and slams their head on the bitumen. I wonder whether the group will stick around for the ambulance (as a group, unstructured though it may be?) or head for Art Gallery Road post-haste. No matter, I suspect the law/insurer/Trust would find the stupid/careless individual.

A bee in my bonnet? Not I!

db.

Edited by dropbear, 04 June 2008 - 03:24 PM.

[michelinman]

What a beautiful day for Pain in the Domain today.

After the customary perve at other runners, particularly female, my eye caught the attention of a man who looked remarkably like Jesus. Skinny body, no shirt, thongs on feet, short footy shorts. Could this man be running with us, was the first thing that crossed my mind?

Struggling through the first few sprints, I found myself behind Jesus running up the grass hill to the old Govt house. And then he spoke "Pain is only weakness leaving the body!!" His outburst did little to inspire other runners. Instead we now started to fear the thong warrior.

With my favourite sprint coming up, the 720m round the bay, I gradually positioned myself towards the front of the pack. At the binoculars I remembered his quote, that apparently "Pain is only weakness leaving the body!!" I led out the pack like a Kenyan pacemaker and was pipped at the line by a man running more like Forrest Gump than a Sydney lunchtime runner.

However the Thong Warrior was not far away, and overtook the group as we were catching our breath. He was soon only to be seen in the horizon as he powered up the stairs and headed for home. How could this man be in front of us all in thongs???

Yet near the Henry Lawson statue the pack caught up to our now infamous pacemaker, and swallowed him whole, as he had broken a little too early. I had expected a much better kick on this gentleman yet it wasn't to be. And that was the last I saw of the Thong Warrior, as he finished well back in the pack.

Who is this man? We may never find out, but one thing is for certain!! It makes for an entertaining run round the harbour.

[TehAxe]

michelinman, on Dec 16 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

What a beautiful day for Pain in the Domain today.

After the customary perve at other runners, particularly female, my eye caught the attention of a man who looked remarkably like Jesus. Skinny body, no shirt, thongs on feet, short footy shorts. Could this man be running with us, was the first thing that crossed my mind?

Struggling through the first few sprints, I found myself behind Jesus running up the grass hill to the old Govt house. And then he spoke "Pain is only weakness leaving the body!!" His outburst did little to inspire other runners. Instead we now started to fear the thong warrior.

With my favourite sprint coming up, the 720m round the bay, I gradually positioned myself towards the front of the pack. At the binoculars I remembered his quote, that apparently "Pain is only weakness leaving the body!!" I led out the pack like a Kenyan pacemaker and was pipped at the line by a man running more like Forrest Gump than a Sydney lunchtime runner.

However the Thong Warrior was not far away, and overtook the group as we were catching our breath. He was soon only to be seen in the horizon as he powered up the stairs and headed for home. How could this man be in front of us all in thongs???

Yet near the Henry Lawson statue the pack caught up to our now infamous pacemaker, and swallowed him whole, as he had broken a little too early. I had expected a much better kick on this gentleman yet it wasn't to be. And that was the last I saw of the Thong Warrior, as he finished well back in the pack.

Who is this man? We may never find out, but one thing is for certain!! It makes for an entertaining run round the harbour.

just wondering, did he run around farm cove or cut across the water?

[Anth]

michelinman, on Dec 16 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

And that was the last I saw of the Thong Warrior, as he finished well back in the pack.

It's just a pity that he didn't take the whole PITD concept with him. Bunch of obnoxious t*ssers.

[Didge]

michelinman, on Dec 16 2008, 02:05 PM, said:

What a beautiful day for Pain in the Domain today.

After the customary perve at other runners, particularly female, my eye caught the attention of a man who looked remarkably like Jesus. Skinny body, no shirt, thongs on feet, short footy shorts. Could this man be running with us, was the first thing that crossed my mind?

Struggling through the first few sprints, I found myself behind Jesus running up the grass hill to the old Govt house. And then he spoke "Pain is only weakness leaving the body!!" His outburst did little to inspire other runners. Instead we now started to fear the thong warrior.

With my favourite sprint coming up, the 720m round the bay, I gradually positioned myself towards the front of the pack. At the binoculars I remembered his quote, that apparently "Pain is only weakness leaving the body!!" I led out the pack like a Kenyan pacemaker and was pipped at the line by a man running more like Forrest Gump than a Sydney lunchtime runner.

However the Thong Warrior was not far away, and overtook the group as we were catching our breath. He was soon only to be seen in the horizon as he powered up the stairs and headed for home. How could this man be in front of us all in thongs???

Yet near the Henry Lawson statue the pack caught up to our now infamous pacemaker, and swallowed him whole, as he had broken a little too early. I had expected a much better kick on this gentleman yet it wasn't to be. And that was the last I saw of the Thong Warrior, as he finished well back in the pack.

Who is this man? We may never find out, but one thing is for certain!! It makes for an entertaining run round the harbour.

That is one of the most entertaining stories I have read in a long time....

Edited by Didge, 16 December 2008 - 03:53 PM.