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Poor Mans Comrades 2007


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#1 Colin

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 10:47 AM

Just had a look at the calendar and saw that this year's event was on the 16th June.

I know that its held "as close to race day as possible", but I thought there was an unwritten 'rule' that it doesn't occur before the actual Comrades?? :)

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#2 Twopennys

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:03 AM

Colin - it seems your compadres have change the date of Comrades from the traditional weekend - this excerpt from a press release:

NEW DATE FOR THE COMRADES MARATHON

Athletics South Africa (ASA) and the Comrades Marathon Association (CMA) today issued a joint statement in response to recent uncertainty surrounding the future staging of the Comrades Marathon on Youth Day.  A press conference was held at Athletics House in Johannesburg.

Leonard Chuene, President of ASA said that he had been involved in high level discussions with all stakeholders in the Province around the issue, and applauded the CMA for embracing the change of the date.

During the past few months, the CMA has engaged in a widespread consultative process, which being an issue of national consequence, has been guided by the leadership of ASA President Leonard Chuene.  

Bringing the uncertainty to an end, Dixon announced that in future the Comrades Marathon will not be staged on Youth Day and was able to confirm that the dates for the next three Comrades Marathons will be as follows:

Sunday, 17 June 2007
Sunday, 15 June 2008
Sunday, 14  June 2009

The decision arose as a consequence of recently escalating debate concerning the appropriateness and sensitivity of staging a national sporting event of the magnitude of Comrades Marathon on a public holiday, which is one of the most significant and sanctified in South Africa’s history and heritage.


They go on to say they consulted widely - but I don't recall them asking us  :)

Not being familiar with the history of the aussiefied version does it really matter Colin?

Cheers, 2P

#3 Colin

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:12 AM

View PostTwopennys, on Feb 6 2007, 12:03 PM, said:

Not being familiar with the history of the aussiefied version does it really matter Colin?
To me? No, as I have no intention of doing PMC, but thought I had heard that it doesn't happen before the actual race.
But the ' history of the aussiefied version' obviously does  have something to do with the real event.

Just thought I'd mention it as people might have missed the fact that it won't be on the 16th in future.

#4 Jogger

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:24 AM

I don't think there was any logic in whether its just before or just after. I suspect its a random thing every year. Anyway - are you up for it this year Colin ?
I am.

#5 Colin

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:36 AM

No, not this year, not before I have done the 'real thing' anyway, which may be 2008 or 2009.

The reasons for looking up the date anyway was:

SMC have their presentation night on the 23rd. PMC had an impact on previous attendance.

Our 'possible' VIP guest may have been interested in a sticky beak of PMC.

cheers

#6 Spud

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 12:26 PM

There'll be a few regular PMC'ers already in the US getting ready for Western States this year.
I've ran PMC the last 3 years, alas not this year.  :wacko:

#7 Eagle

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 12:27 PM

I have not run this before. Last year it was run Sydney/Gosford. Is it correct this year it will be Gosford Sydney.

As SMC have changed their Annual Dinner to the 23rd this makes it possible to run it on the 16th if that is the date. However I have only pencilled it it as it depends on how I pull up from the McLeay River marathon and what my prospects are for the Gold Coast. Assuming I am fit enough to run each that is. :wacko:

#8 Twopennys

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 12:35 PM

Though it is still a ways off I am planning on being there - and yes Eagle I believe it is a "down" year (LOL much easier  :wacko: ).

Rumour has it that with those crudgy Western Staters missing in action at least a couple of members of the fairer sex may be gracing the start line  :wacko:

#9 Rudolf

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 01:12 PM

View PostTwopennys, on Feb 6 2007, 01:35 PM, said:

Rumour has it that with those crudgy Western Staters missing in action at least a couple of members of the fairer sex may be gracing the start line  :wacko:
despite the spelling errors, I got the point :

some sexy fairies, running PMC  :yahoo:  :wacko:

#10 Spud

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 01:34 PM

If John Mergler doesn't run, I'm tipping the Eagle to take it out.  :wacko:

#11 SpartaJen

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 02:30 PM

View PostTwopennys, on Feb 6 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

at least a couple of members of the fairer sex may be gracing the start line  :wacko:
And crewing  :wacko:

#12 Eagle

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 03:00 PM

SPUD:

If John Mergler doesn't run, I'm tipping the Eagle to take it out.


Only way that could even be remotely possible is if I was the only starter but then there is always a possibility of a DNF :wacko:

Edited by Eagle, 06 February 2007 - 03:01 PM.


#13 Tesso

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 04:29 PM

View PostTwopennys, on Feb 6 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

Rumour has it that with those crudgy Western Staters missing in action at least a couple of members of the fairer sex may be gracing the start line  :wacko:

Hmmm, wonder who that could be  :wacko:

#14 plu

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 09:21 PM

Hi all,

I will be starting it and hoping to finish.  At the very least a PB distance is the first goal.

This will happen somewhere along the road from Berowra to the Bobbin Head turn off.

Plu

#15 Just Did It

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:46 PM

Quote

I know that its held "as close to race day as possible", but I thought there was an unwritten 'rule' that it doesn't occur before the actual Comrades??

Hello Colin, I thought the whole idea of Fatass was there were no rules!!  Have you done the PMC event in the past?

Regards
Just did it

#16 Graham Wye

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:07 AM

I'm keen to do this race again this year. With so many away at Western States is it worth moving it further forward this year?

#17 Jogger

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:24 AM

We had a bad expereince when we moved it by a week a year or so back. Presumably for the WS100 runners to enter they might want it moved by a month or 2. Anyway they might prefer to run bush - I think Spud has already posted something to that effect on the Ws100 thread. nah stuff 'em

#18 Colin

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:44 AM

The gradients are a bit difficult to work out from the elevation profile on website.

Can anyone- from an experience point of view- tell me whether the pull either way from Hawkebury or even down at Bobbin Head is close to 4-5km over 200m and whether it is a steady climb, rather than bits really steep.

Want to incorporate into a long run to simulate (another) race conditions.

cheers

Colin

#19 Rudolf

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 10:01 AM

View PostColin, on Feb 9 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

Want to incorporate into a long run to simulate (another) race conditions.

cheers

Colin

gues, there is no special award for guesing right, which is the race You wanna simulate ?

#20 Horrie

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 11:56 AM

View PostColin, on Feb 9 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

The gradients are a bit difficult to work out from the elevation profile on website.

Can anyone- from an experience point of view- tell me whether the pull either way from Hawkebury or even down at Bobbin Head is close to 4-5km over 200m and whether it is a steady climb, rather than bits really steep.

Want to incorporate into a long run to simulate (another) race conditions.

cheers

Colin

I am not very good on guessing elevation gains and losses but the hills aren't really that steep, just good steady climbs.

#21 Twopennys

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 12:15 PM

Colin my recollection is that all the climbs seem to be about 4 to 5kms long and are all fairly steady gradients. Lots of bends and the occasional switch back - boats trailers and bicycles can be a bit of a hazard on the Bobbin Head bit - the cars and cars with boats you can hear coming for ages - the bicycles can scare the bejeezus out of ya. There is no shoulder on the drop down into the Haweksbury but there isn't much traffic and again you can hear it coming for ages.

There is also a trail optiondown to Bobbin Head but I've never run it.

It would be good training for a certain race - but if you are going there why not join the masses at Quarry Road?

Edit: Unless it is a different "certain race" :wacko:

Cheers, 2P

Edited by Twopennys, 09 February 2007 - 12:22 PM.


#22 plu

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 03:36 PM

Quote

Can anyone- from an experience point of view- tell me whether the pull either way from Hawkebury or even down at Bobbin Head is close to 4-5km over 200m and whether it is a steady climb, rather than bits really steep.

When ever I get a chance, which is often with fires and traffic,  I drive it and have ridden it a lot.  It is 4km from Brooklyn turn off to Pie in the Sky and a 500m pinch to the top.  It then goes left and down hill and undulates to the hill to Cowan - all up 5km.

For 2008 going up from Mooney Mooney it is about 1km undulating and a couple of km climb  then a more undulating climb to Mt White. Not sure of the distance here.  Might be 8km from Mt White to Mooney Mooney - I will check next time

The climb up from Mooney Mooney Creek to the Calga turnoff is about 3km. Once again hairpins for a bit then an undulating rise.

Both sides from memory a symmetrical   in elevation what ever it is.

But Colin - no experience running it---yet

cheers  PLu

Edit:  From Spud's thingy it looks like the climb to Cowan has the elevation,  42 km is Pie in the sky then the undulations to Cowan.

#23 Spud

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 04:33 PM

View PostColin, on Feb 9 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

The gradients are a bit difficult to work out from the elevation profile on website.

Can anyone- from an experience point of view- tell me whether the pull either way from Hawkebury or even down at Bobbin Head is close to 4-5km over 200m and whether it is a steady climb, rather than bits really steep.

Want to incorporate into a long run to simulate (another) race conditions.

cheers

Colin

Colin, here is the elevation profile from 2005 (down year).

Attached File  Running___PMC_Gosford_to_Sydney_96km_19_06_2005__Elevation___Distance.jpg   54.35K   29 downloads

#24 Jogger

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 05:31 PM

You can tell it's friday afternoon.
I have tried to superimpose pmc profile with 12foot:

Attached File  pmc_12ft.jpg   38.67K   45 downloads

#25 Colin

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 11:22 PM

Thanks guys, knew I could rely on you.

This looks nearly perfect for that 'certain' other race I am focussing on.

Going south it looks like Hawkesbury drops 180m over 7km, then climbs 215 over 7km again. Bobbin Head then drops 150 over 2.5 km and climbs 160 over 3km.

The 'certain' race has 170m climb between 26 and 33km plus a 30m dip in middle (200/6), then drops 170 m to 39 km (170/6) , then climbs 215m between 41 a 46 km (215/5) and drops to 70m at 53km with a 40 bump in middle, then oscillates between 70 amd 85m at finish.

Certain other race profile and route

Perhaps maybe lower blue mtns could be an option, but this PMC course looks the best.

Edited by Colin, 10 February 2007 - 08:52 AM.


#26 Rudolf

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 08:50 AM

Colin, You obviously have all the hills worked out to the last metre of elevation or drops. I am however reminded of this experience and am not sure how it is relevant.

friend of mine, the best Czech female marathoner was preparing for olympic marathon. The course had an serious uphill the last 7 kms or so ( I do not remeber detail numbers ).

She and her coach become obssesed with this last hill profile and preparation for it.

The last 4 months or so before olympics, she spend in the Czech mountains running uphills of similar incline etc.
In the mountains it was relatively cold weather all that time, She was sure she is well prepared to run that last uphill of the olympic course and also had added benefit of higher altitude training.

The whole olympics was bloody hot weather, on the day of womens marathon was hot and sunny, and when she got under that hill she was already droped into second group, was already spend force, was having a heatstroke, dehydrated etc, and there was nothing left to execut the special hill preparation.

Barcelona

Edited by Rudolf, 10 February 2007 - 08:52 AM.


#27 Colin

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 08:59 AM

I know, but I don't want to go there at least without one long run that has a similar gradient and length- close enough will do, but don't need sharp pinches etc.

A lot of Sydney is hilly, as opposed to CTN which ironically is mostly pancake flat. However the hills here are short and sharper (more undulating) , others like Quarry rd is way steeper , but the TOM hills are really two long drags. Have a look at profile I added to other post.

Don't want to hijack PMC further with this though, but it is hotter and more humid here than it will ever be in CTN.

Though if I enjoy this 40km (worst?) section of PMC, I may even do it this year- going against my credo of 'no PMC before RMC'

cheers

Edited by Colin, 10 February 2007 - 09:00 AM.


#28 Brick

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 08:01 AM

I am thinking of giving this a go this year.
I have never done anything like this before.
What kind a KMs do people generally do per week training for this race.

At the moment I am doing some thing like:

Monday AM run to work 16.5 PM run Home 16.5
Tuesday AM run to work 16.5 PM run Home 16.5
Wednesday AM ride to work 12.5 PM Ride Home 12.5
Thursday AM run to work 16.5 PM run Home 16.5
Friday rest
Saturday Run to work and home 33KS.

This would be a max wek for me so that is:
132KMs longest run 33KMs.
25KMs ride just to commute.

Is the long run long enough?
Am I doing enough KMs?

Also I think I asked this before, do people do PMC without any support.
This is my plan to just have a backpack and run with food and drink on board.
Also buying drinks on the way.
Is this a sensible idea?

Brick
:wacko:

#29 Jogger

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 08:23 AM

That is plenty of km I am doing A LOT less and plan to run.

Its quite to easy to run without support, some food and drink on board is good, lots of places to buy from. That is what this run was designed for.

#30 Twopennys

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 08:44 AM

Brick a bit like your Q in the Canberra thread a bit depends on what your goal is ie are you looking to post a time or do you just want to finish?

I'm just in it for the fun :wacko: - I typically run between 50 & 70k per week and do a bit of cross training. I will be shooting for around a 12 hour finish unsupported.

I'm no ultra expert but my only suggestion is if your 33k run is on the flat then you might want to either lengthen it a bit occasionally or do it over hilly trails to get the odd 4 to 5 hour time on feet session.

As Kevin said - plenty of shopping ops on the way particularly the back half.

Cheers, 2P

#31 Brick

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 08:54 AM

View PostKevinTiller, on Feb 15 2007, 09:23 AM, said:

That is plenty of km I am doing A LOT less and plan to run.

Its quite to easy to run without support, some food and drink on board is good, lots of places to buy from. That is what this run was designed for.
Thanks Kevin.

View PostTwopennys, on Feb 15 2007, 09:44 AM, said:

Brick a bit like your Q in the Canberra thread a bit depends on what your goal is ie are you looking to post a time or do you just want to finish?

I'm just in it for the fun :wacko: - I typically run between 50 & 70k per week and do a bit of cross training. I will be shooting for around a 12 hour finish unsupported.

I'm no ultra expert but my only suggestion is if your 33k run is on the flat then you might want to either lengthen it a bit occasionally or do it over hilly trails to get the odd 4 to 5 hour time on feet session.

As Kevin said - plenty of shopping ops on the way particularly the back half.

Cheers, 2P
For this race just to finish is a new PB the longest I have ever run to date is 60KMs and that was a flat course, it was a great run that is why I have decided to give this a go.
The Saturday 33KM run goes down and out of Bobbin Head so has some hills.

Brick
:wacko:

#32 Spud

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 09:44 AM

Brick,

With that mileage and a hilly long run you will have no worries completing PMC.
The last few years there has been ample support from CRs out there on the course to compliment  
the shops along the way. Plu had a huge aid station set up last year. Fatass my ass!  :wacko:

Edited by Spud, 15 February 2007 - 10:34 AM.


#33 tim

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 10:06 AM

on that kind of mileage you will have no problems.  just keep a steady pace and have small goals to focus on.  mark them on your map and then all you need to do is focus on the next goal.  never worry about the finish.  then before you know it you will see the Harbour Bridge and it will be the best feeling.

#34 plu

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 08:45 PM

Quote

Plu had a huge aid station set up last year. Fatass my ass! biggrin.gif

Calga about 80km

Posted Image

Ahh yes it is nice to look back on the photos

Bobbin Head about 35km
Update: I could not find these Bobbin Head ones  earlier

Posted Image


cheers  Plu

#35 Spud

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 06:58 AM

Plu the aid on Bobbin Head Rd was even better.  :wacko:

#36 Colin

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 03:36 PM

View PostColin, on Feb 10 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Though if I enjoy this 40km (worst?) section of PMC, I may even do it this year- going against my credo of 'no PMC before RMC'
Maybe , just maybe I'll do PMC this year.

Did the section from Cowan Station to Rainbow Warrior Cafe at Mt White today. Started fairly late because of the cooler conditions, but a bit humid to start off with. After downing a 750ml bottle of water in car and 600ml gatorade at start I took off carrying only money. Starting around 210m , the highest point of 226m was between start and Pie in the Sky cafe (4km/205m) from where it descended to Hawkesbury River  Bridge
Exactly 10km (ok 9.8km) to the Petrol Station after the  bridge at Mooney Mooney in 45min- another 600ml gatorade.

A couple of k's gentle slope up then quite stiff for 2km to 195m with the last 5km more down than up to RW cafe- exactly 20km in 1:34 (49min split). More gatorade.

After 2km back towards Mooney Mooney, I saw a familiar car pulling over coming towards me and out steps Plu with his camera- what a pleasant surprise. Quick chat and photos I took off with Plu then taking some video and commentary around the 23km mark.
Reached the petrol station (30.2km) in 2:18 with a 43min split between 20 and 30km, to find Plu reading a book. Another gatorade and off again.
Across the bridge at 32km the climb back up to Pie in Sky started. Did the 4km mostly between 5:20-30 and finally met up with Plu at the finish, 40km in 3:06 last 10km in 48min.

Rounded off Plu's company, which really lifted me, by having coffee at Starbucks.

Other than my sciatica which has been hassling me since my Port Mac trip, everything else is still in one one piece.

edit: here is the profile

Attached Files


Edited by Colin, 25 February 2007 - 03:53 PM.


#37 plu

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 04:06 PM

Posted Image
Here are the rest of the photos. I also have three video clips but I need to reduce them and I will put them in My YouTube Account later.

Cheers  Plu

#38 Spud

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 04:51 PM

Good to hear you might be running PMC this year Colin, I reckon a roadie like yourself will tear it up. Just one tip if I may, reverse the CR cap and you'll shave minutes off your time.  :wacko:

#39 Colin

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 06:11 PM

View PostSpud, on Feb 25 2007, 05:51 PM, said:

Good to hear you might be running PMC this year Colin, I reckon a roadie like yourself will tear it up. Just one tip if I may, reverse the CR cap and you'll shave minutes off your time.  :wacko:
Thanks for the rap but I don't know what you mean by 'tear it up', more like finish in one piece. There is another 40km to be added on to the race I'm doing in April, and its a whole new ball game in that territory which I haven't done before in a race- fuel strategy etc etc- all unknown territory to me.

If I do it, I will only be taking advantage while the rest of you are doing some fun run in the States :wacko: , although people like John Mergler will be way in front.

Forget about the cap, my wife (Yoli) asked "what's with the big shirt" and I said "gee it fitted me when I left, did I lose so much weight"? But seriously, it does normally fit but was hanging because it was that wet and I didn't want to take it off because I thought it would be warmer that way (having taken on the body heat).

#40 plu

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 01:49 AM

Hi all,

Well it is that time of the year again with only a couple of months to go for a little jog from Gosford to the Opera House  ... Poor Mans Comrades Fat Ass Run, 2007.  

I am having a little break at the moment from running but I plan to be at the starting line on June 16 to have a go at this one.

Who else is interested?

Here is last years thread.

cheers  Plu

#41 Jogger

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 02:24 AM

I am.
and some girl is flying over from perth just to run it, plus I have had a bunch of other emails too.

#42 Brick

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 07:22 AM

I am planning on giving it a go for the first time.
This will also be my longest run ever by far.

Brick
:)

#43 inganbangan

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 08:18 AM

View PostBrick, on Apr 13 2007, 07:22 AM, said:

I am planning on giving it a go for the first time.
This will also be my longest run ever by far.

ditto

#44 Hamburglar

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 08:52 AM

*Gulp* Yep

#45 Twopennys

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:40 AM

Yep

#46 Eagle

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 01:13 PM

I didn't run it last year because of a stressy. This year calender wise it is nicely sandwiched the week after the McLeay River Marathon then the following week being the SMC Annual Dinner and awards night. Baring injury I am looking forward to the 'down' run.

Edited by Eagle, 13 April 2007 - 01:16 PM.


#47 Dave

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 02:39 PM

Highly probable, especially with most of the usual pesky fast ultra types awol at Western States :)

I have ridden the first half of the course so many times I reckon I could run it blindfolded!

#48 Spud

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 02:57 PM

View PostDave, on Apr 13 2007, 02:39 PM, said:

Highly probable, especially with most of the usual pesky fast ultra types awol at Western States :)

I have ridden the first half of the course so many times I reckon I could run it blindfolded!


Not too miss out, a few of said "pesky ultra types" will be running it a few weeks earlier.  :)

#49 plu

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 06:49 PM

Hi all,

I have  just created the pace chart for the down course for 2007 and 2009. It is on the Fat Ass Page

Any errors let me know.

It is also attached  to this post.

cheers  Plu

Attached Files



#50 Koala1

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 08:48 PM

I'd love to do this - but I don't think I'm quite there with my training yet.  Maybe next year....unless of course there is a shorter option?