22 replies to this topic

[stewy]

Hi All! I'm new here, this is my first post. I started running on Jan1 2007 (new years resolution) to shed a bit of weight (10kg) and have basically been running 4x5km/week since. Eventually hope to enter a few fun runs and perhaps the 1/2M in October. Decided to spoil myself a couple of weeks ago and lashed out and bought a shiny new Polar RS800SD HRM/Watch - overkill for a mere running gumby perhaps, but I just love my Polar800!
Thought I'd share my limited experience about choosing/buying/using my new Polar HRM/Watch here, even though I know there's a couple of other threads on it in CR somewhere...

Cost
After a bit of research on various forums and websites I ended up choosing the Polar RS800SD (over the Garmin and Timex - both GPS watches) and eventually bought it from the RunnersWarehouse in California (an 'authorised' Polar dealer) for USD$465 (~AUD$560) compared to ~AUD$900 if I'd bought it here in Oz! Arrived at my doorstep in 4days with FedEx with no further duties/GST demanded. I did look at eBay where it appeared even cheaper again (about USD$50-100 cheaper) however none of the eBay sellers were authorised agents and so any warranty would be void. A lot of the deals on eBay sounded too good to be true and on contacting a few of the sellers with questions, it confirmed my suspicions - two sounded very dodgy and would only accept creditcard payment - no PayPal! I ain't giving my creditcard details to anybody! (One eBay Seller kept contacting me by email with broken english, trying to lower his price further and further until I'd finally 'give in' and give my CC details! - No Way!)

Choosing between Polar vs. Garmin vs. Timex
Initially I looked at 3 watches, the PolarRS800SD the Garmin305 and the TimexBodyLink. All 3 HRMs had some great individual features. As a bit of a techno junky, I really liked the idea of a GPS on my arm but the chunky, industrial looking Garmin305 just couldn't be worn day to day as a watch, whereas the Timex and Polar could. Apparently one downside with the GPS watches was the time it took to initially 'lock on' to a satellite (~5mins?) - just want to go out and run! Apparently the GPS watches can also lose the satellites in tunnels (ie. R4Ks), thick tree canopies, during certain atmospheric anomalies and in the gym. BTW re. GPS - I already know where I'm running, more importantly I want to know about accurate ascent/descent profiles/variations vs. my HR. - some peeps do like the GPS to map out their runs though - respect. (As for me, I do like the idea of mapping my runs using GPS and Google Earth, however I could also see the novelty quickly wearing off) Neither the Garmin or the BodyLink could display running cadence whereas the Polar with the included 's3' footpod could. The Polar ProTrainer5 software bundled with the 800 made it the clear choice in the end.

Choosing between Polar models
I chose the RS800SD over the other Polar watches because I really wanted the altitude feature, I liked the idea of downloading my runs and analyzing my HR (and other details) against the ascent/descent/altitude - that's cool! I must admit I really didn't like the look of the RS800 from the 2D pictures on the web, but once I got the 'real thang' in my hands it really is a sexy looking watch! Another advantage of the 800 is that it will be compatible with the new Polar 'g3' GPS module which is being released in 8weeks. I contacted Polar in Adelaide and they said they will arrive in Oz in ~Sept. and be about RRP AUD$360 - I guess that will mean about ~$220 if bought from OS. Not sure if I'll go down that path - but I am a techno junky! Polar said you can only use the g3 GPS OR the footpod but not both at the same time.

Accuracy
As far as speed/distance accuracy goes with the Polar s3 footpod, it seemed quite accurate straight out of the box, but I took it down to the athletics track at Willunda today to callibrate it over 2.4kms anyway. To my surprise after 400m it read 400m EXACTLY, after 800m it read 800m EXACTLY, after 2400m it read 2402m. So out of the box without calibration and my 'normal' stride it was basically 100% accurate - for me. I changed/increased my running cadence by 15% on the next test run and it read 2408 after running 2400m. Off the flat running track and onto running my 'normal' route around the streets of my quite hilly suburb (ElthamN.) I always get 5200m +/- ~30m accuracy - at the worst, that's 99.4% accurate! I didn't bother calibrating it.

Altitude
Many uninformed people on different forums complain about the accuracy of their Altitude function/Altimeter of their watches, be it Polar, Suunto, Casio or whatever, without understanding how a barometric altimeter actually works and derives its data and how it varies with naturally ever changing barometric pressures. Being a pilot I am well aware of this and taking this into account, I have found the altitude function of the RS800 very good - so far. I can do my 5km run in my hilly area and return to the house and it's always shows +/- 1m from where I started. Bearing in mind that over a 25min run the barometric pressure will probably change slightly, of course you will get a slightly different reading to when you started as the barometric reference point when you hit the 'Start' button would have changed slightly over time. This is where altitude derived from a GPS unit could be more consistent and more accurate(?) over time - not sure how the Garmin or Timex stack up here for accuracy. NB. If I put my RS800 on the floor and then hold it above my head it does indicate a 2metre change! Whenever using the altitude function of any barometric watch/altimeter there always seems a slight delay (~3secs) in changes in the altitude readout from what it actually is - not an issue.


Now the downsides of my Polar RS800SD so far, I am still learning about my watch so anyone correct me if I'm wrong here...

1/. The alarms are so LOUD it's almost embarrassing! (ie Zone/HR alarm) I don't want to switch the alarms off altogether, I just want a softer alarm! There should be a choice of alarms, Norm/Soft/Off. In fact the type and loudness of alarm should be programable throught the PC. (ie. different alarm choices for different indications)

2/. Now it's ESSENTIAL for the RS800 to be able to interact with the supplied Polar software on your PC, but for this to happen you require an IR 'interface' between the watch and the PC. Okaaaaaay... BUT this IR adapter is not included with the RS800SD package!!! I couldn't believe it! I initially bought a cheapy IR adapter off eBay for $12 bucks, but the hardware drivers just wouldn't work on my PC and the adapter was a piece of junk so I ended up coughing up another $80 bucks for the Polar IR adapter! Grrrrr! After yet another week of waiting (for an IR adapter to arrive) was finally able to get the thing going properly.

3/. In the setup you can only choose metric or imperial units. However I'd prefer everything in metric and altitudes in feet - it's a pilot thing. Can't be done. Just a small gripe - I can live with that.

4/. There should be a function where you can keep the display lit up continuously at night to see all the readings whilst night running. Yes would use more power, but I'll trade that off to have this function/mode available.

5/. I've nothing to base this gripe on, BUT I'm a bit dubious as to how long the big red button will stay attached to the watch - it seems to have a bit of movement in it.

6/. There should be an option/functionality for 2user use, so another person can also use the HRM/watch. (Yes, would have to purchase and extra s3 foot pod for 2nd user's shoes) My wife is only an occasional runner, I ain't going to spend another AUD$500+ (or RRP$900) on another RS800 - unless she gets serious about her running! I guess the 800 IS marketed to the elite athlete, so that's why this 2user function doesn't exist.

7/. ~6months ago, Polar in alliance with Adidas and with much fanfare, annouced the Adistar 'Fusion' range of shoes/shirts/sports-bras which would intergrate with the Polar RS800SD 'system'. (ie. the footpod fits into a special cavity inside the Adidas sole and the HR sensor clips onto the Adidas shirts/sports-bras with the HR sensors built into the fabric!) Well you can forget it! After only ~6months it appears you can't buy these anywhere in Oz anymore! I contacted Rebel and they said all stores returned the shoes/shirts/bras to adidas back in March, to be sold off at factory outlets. Rang the Adidas Concept store here in Melbourne - no 'Fusion' stock. I then contacted Adidas HO in Melbourne and they appear to no longer be interested in either promoting or supplying the Adistar Fusion range here anymore! Pffft!

NEW - Update!!!
8/. Is it just me/user technique (I'm a male, so as a rule we generally don't read instructions unless all else fails) but the 's3' footpod battery(CR2340) went dead today after a total of only ~8hrs(max) running! My PC indicated it was fully charged 48 hours ago! There's no physical on/off button on the s3 pod just an s3 mode selector on the watch - I don't think that's to turn the unit on/off every run though. Checked instructions - can't find anything, hmmm...
How does the s3 pod actually activate to 'ON', is it when it senses the watch has started timing in s3 mode or just anytime the s3pod senses movement - dunno??? I will update when I find out.

Anyway that's my experience to date, I'll add to this later if I find anything else.

Cheers
stewy

NOTE: To answer a number of CR forum members AND moderaters suspicions after I initially posted this lengthy review, I am NOT a Polar Rep. nor do I (or anyone I know) have any relationship with Polar products/company - apart from me buying and loving my Polar RS800SD!

Edited by stewy, 07 May 2007 - 03:29 AM.

[Sparkie]

Well, this gets my vote as best first post ever. I was starting to get anxious thinking you were a Polar rep in disguise, but instead found a detailed and well thought out post. I currently use a Garmin, but was a Polar man before GPS watches arrived on the scene, so I will seriously think about this one...

[Twopennys]

Thanks Stewy nice first post - welcome to CR.

Wouldn't it be nice to have one of everything? Maybe you could buy your wife a Garmin for her Birthday

In my experience barometric pressure watches (correctly calibrated of course) are always more accurate for altitude than GPS - well except if there is a weather front moving in that is - there will also be a slight change as the watch warms up on your arm if you just put it on. Unlike in the lofty heights of a cockpit where you can always get a good profile of satellites it just aint possible on terra firma BUT you can record your route with a GPS and download it on to Google Earth, 3rd party training software, or topographical mapping software and get very accurate height datum (in feet if you want). NB GPS use WGS 84 for height datum which is 25m higher than Australian Height Datum.

All your points on the cons of the Garmin are fair other than the lock on time - generally with a 305 it is less than 1 minute and usually less if it has been left on the charger - I suspect the GPS is "on" when on the charger and even in the house it gets some reception. Though even 1 minute in very cold conditions or rain can seem a very long time.

A very thoughtful and persuasive post but I'm not about to turn yet :-)

Oh yeah and the Garmin 305 is RED

Cheers, 2P

[milov]

~6months ago, Polar in alliance with Adidas and with much fanfare, annouced the Adistar 'Fusion' range of shoes/shirts/sports bras which would intergrate with the Polar RS800 HR monitor and the shoes with the s3 footpod. (ie. the footpod fits into a special cavity inside the sole and the HR monitor clips onto the shirts/bras with the HR sensors built into the fabric!) Well you can forget it! After only ~6months you can't buy these anywhere in Oz any more! I contacted Rebel and they said all stores returned the shoes/shirts/bras to adidas back in March, to be sold off at factory outlets. I contacted Adidas HO in Melbourne and they appear to no longer be interested in promoting or supplying the Adistar Fusion range here anymore!
Pffft!


Hey Stewy!

Just letting you know that the Adidas concept store in Sydney still carries an almost complete range of Fusion gear, but can't promise how long it will be there.

milov

[plu]

Quote

I was starting to get anxious thinking you were a Polar rep in disguise

So did I - still thinking. 3:50am post ?

I have a SD210 and it is really good with the foot pod.

cheers PLu

[stewy]

Than ks milov,
I'll give them a call. I have called the Adidas concept store in Melbourne, they don't have the Fusion range anymore. Really need to try the shirts on in person for sizing, as it's important that the chest area (with the sensors built into the fabric) fits snugly so that it will work with the HR unit.

[stewy]

I assure you Plu, I'm no Polar Rep! Re. 3:50am post, it may surprise you that some people actually work shift and don't follow normal sleep paterns.

[plu]

Hi Stewy,

Sorry - sometimes a bit of detective work is involved when it comes to first posts. Yeh I took a risk in making that statement. Thanks for clarifying for me. I did toy with the idea of shift work, irregular sleep patterns or the one I was thinking of - your were posting from overseas.

cheers Plu

[stewy]

Sparkie, on May 5 2007, 05:26 AM, said:

Well, this gets my vote as best first post ever. I was starting to get anxious thinking you were a Polar rep in disguise, but instead found a detailed and well thought out post. I currently use a Garmin, but was a Polar man before GPS watches arrived on the scene, so I will seriously think about this one...

Thanks Sparkie

Well it IS/was my first post in CR but definitely not a first post in any forum as I'm a well seasoned poster/forum member in an Oz snow skiing forum (ski.com.au - 2500+ posts)

To others... gee,
I was only trying to type a balanced review after only 2weeks of owning a Polar RS800SD as it might assist others in helping to decide whether to cough up RRP$900 hard earned bucks on a product I couldn't find such a detailed review of the product here in CR or in any OZ forum for that matter. The Garmin305 IS a great HRM too and I'd encourage any Garmin owners in CR to post a similar detailed thread to help others (ie. myself) in choosing a Garmin HRM.

You may notice that I was actually critical of the Polar RS800SD in the second half of my first post, why on earth would a Polar rep. be so critical of their own product OR even suggest buying it from eBay or OS in order to sideline their local retail outlets? (BTW, I'm all for buying stuff locally, BUT $900 vs ~$500 pfffft. that's a huge difference!)

Cheers
stewy

Edited by stewy, 07 May 2007 - 03:35 AM.

[Greg]

Stewy,

I have been as RS800 user since the week they came outin OZ (Sept 06). I thought I'd help a little.

1. Big red button - won't come off, but the internal spring will come loose, and rattle around inside. Doesn't affect it, but Polar wil fix.

2. Altitude - Polar changed the backplate, because the original holes would fill up with sweat, or seal against the skin and give WAY out readings. Polar changed my back plate under warranty and now it is much better. (There are two channels from the sensor to the outer edge in the new design)

3. During excersise the light button puts the watch in night mode, this will turn the light on at any button press (changing dispay modes etc), so it's not too bad.

4. The footpod battery. It lasts for at LEAST 50 hours BUT the contacts are dodgy. I had to 'adjust' the contact points in the pod but brigning them in better contact with the battery. I had a problem when mine wouldn't work, no matter what battery I put in , until I adjusted the contacts. The low battery warning does work, both on the watch and in the software. I am just finishing my second battery since sept and have been averaging about 60-70kms per week.

Anyway, hope that helps. Enjoy your new toy.

[FakePlasticTrees]

Stewy, the old crew here are a cynical bunch. There's often people posing as first time posters who come on and spruik a product and are never heard from again. I didn't get that sense from your post and thought it to be a good review of the technology, thanks for posting it.

For now I'll be sticking with my garmin. Incidentally garmin have released a foot pod for the 205/305, so once Polar get the GPS there won't be much difference between them. Biggest one being price and I think accessorising. With the Polar you will have the watch, seperate gps receiver, foot pod and HRM. The garmin whilst being a chunky watch elements the need for seperate gps receiver and is a fair bit cheaper overall. But price isn't always the best reason to buy something. Somebody started a thread recently about the Suunto X6 (or something) and I was hoping to hear from people about that. The Suunto is very $$$ in comparison to both Polar and Garmin.

[jarrah]

Greg, on May 6 2007, 08:17 AM, said:

2. Altitude - Polar changed the backplate, because the original holes would fill up with sweat, or seal against the skin and give WAY out readings. Polar changed my back plate under warranty and now it is much better. (There are two channels from the sensor to the outer edge in the new design)

That's really handy to know... I've had my unit for two months now and it has never given me a realistic reading for altitude - it even often gives negative numbers!

What did you have to do to get Polar to replace the backplate?

[stewy]

Anna Kauffmann, on May 8 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

That's really handy to know... I've had my unit for two months now and it has never given me a realistic reading for altitude - it even often gives negative numbers!

So far after (only) 3 weeks, mine gives me VERY accurate altitude readings above/below my 'zero' reference starting point - within +/-1m and often exact! Are you SURE you know how to use the altitude settings/calibration correctly?

So far I have not had any problems with sweat (and I sweat like a pig doing aerobics in the Amazon) but will keep this sweat problem with the baseplate in mind.

With all due respect, I think this is my point in 'Altitude' in my initial post.

No pressure altimeter will give you a realistic altitude above MSL unless you calibrate it for the MSL pressure altitude at that time.. This will change continuously, just as it does for an aircraft, including a high tech. airliner! Personally I don't see any point in calibrating a running watch/HRM to altitude above mean sea level, but rather set each running start point as zero ft/m.

As far as I know you can't set the RS800SD to the 'AQNH' (a barometric pressure indicating your relative height above sea level at that point in time) but you can manually calibrate it to an altitude above MSL if you know what your actual altitude is (I don't see the point for running though) - of course as the barometric pressures naturally and continulously fluctuate up or down, so will your indicated altitude at your location over time! You cannot set any altimeter only ONCE to your pressure altitude and expect it to indicate the same forever (even in 1hrs time it will differ!) that's the nature of pressure altitudes!

Of COURSE it can give you negative numbers! For example, If you set your starting altitude/reference to zero (or 'Auto' mode) once you start to run and descend below any point after your starting reference point it WILL indicate a negative figure! When you ascend above any point above your starting reference point the figure will be positive. Even if you set your known altitude (above sea level) it is quite possible, over time, that it will indicate negative figures/altitudes belwo sea level.

Hope this helps...

stewy

Edited by stewy, 09 May 2007 - 03:07 AM.

[stewy]

Thanks Greg,
Put the old battery back in the s3 footpod and it seems to be working fine.
Will keep in mind the 2channel base plate, but so far no problems - VERY accurate readout, perhaps after it becomes a little old and 'crusty'?!.

[pgseye]

stewy, on May 4 2007, 01:24 AM, said:

NEW - Update!!!
8/. Is it just me/user technique (I'm a male, so as a rule we generally don't read instructions unless all else fails) but the 's3' footpod battery(CR2340) went dead today after a total of only ~8hrs(max) running! My PC indicated it was fully charged 48 hours ago! There's no physical on/off button on the s3 pod just an s3 mode selector on the watch - I don't think that's to turn the unit on/off every run though. Checked instructions - can't find anything, hmmm...
How does the s3 pod actually activate to 'ON', is it when it senses the watch has started timing in s3 mode or just anytime the s3pod senses movement - dunno??? I will update when I find out.

Stewy,

My footpod battery went ded after only 12 hours. My guess was maybe it'd been sitting in factory for a while. I'm hoping it's a one off - done about 20 hrs on the new battery.

[malleyDuck]

very interesting discussion...
i have an S625X.

• i set my altitude for each run at 10m because i live on the coast and start my run down by the river... is this the correct way to do it?
  • what if you're running somewhere else? do you have to know the altitude?, i haven't seen the watch estimate the altitude
• my foot pod has been playing up with distance measurement.[indent]over an 11.3k run last sunday (Nail Can Hill) my polar measured 10.6k and yet last year the measurement was spot on.[/indent]

[indent][indent]i have worked this out to be an error of 6m /km short
this seems to be affecting my pace measurement, eg. i ran the brisbane 10k with my friend who has an RS800sd and i thought we were on pace whereas according to her watch we were about 5-8 seconds /km slower.
At the end of the race i looked at our finish time and was surprised because as i thought we were on pace the time looked too slow.

i calibrated my polar over 1200m twice the previous weekend and i will have another go this weekend. Trouble is we don't have an athletics track here only an oval that i measure out using a measuring wheel.
[/indent]
Any tips/advice?


[/indent]

Edited by malleyDuck, 09 May 2007 - 08:40 PM.

[Greg]

Stewy, by innacurate I mean getting readings of 2.5km of ascent over a 10km run with only about 200m of ascent.

Jarrah, Contact pursuit performance in adelaide. I sent them my watch, they fixed it and returned it all in about 3days.

pgseye the battery life on the S1 footpod (the bick black one that takes aaa bat) is only about 20 ish hours.

The battery life on the 3s footpod (the size of about 3X50c pieces stacked) that only comes with the RS800 lasts for AT LEAST 50 hours. The watch and software will tell you when it's dying. If it just stops working then it's usually the contact alignment.

Stewy, don't worry about the on/off thing. It just works. When you press start, it goes looking for the pod (so obviously there is always SOME thing on the pod running to enable it to respond)when the little running man is flashing on your watch it is looking for it. When the running man stops flashing it has found it, and the pod is now on. What I can't tell you is if when you press stop (not pause) does that send the OFF signal to the pod, or does it just timeout. Either way, I have had the same pod battery in for over 4 months, and just changed it yesterday.

Greg

[pgseye]

Greg, on May 9 2007, 09:21 AM, said:

The battery life on the 3s footpod (the size of about 3X50c pieces stacked) that only comes with the RS800 lasts for AT LEAST 50 hours. The watch and software will tell you when it's dying. If it just stops working then it's usually the contact alignment.

So, does the battery meter in the Polar software actually work? I assumed it was buggy and always at full strength - I haven't noticed any change in battery charge status. Does it gradually decline, or just go to zero when the battery dies?

[Greg]

Battery life 100% 100% 100% 100% 0%. I thinks it's more of an on/off gauge rather than a gradual decline. However, I went for 2 runs after the warning came up, and the watch also told me about the low battery when I started my run. It still worked for 2 hours after it told me it needed replacing.

If it just stops working, then it's most likely a contact issue.
Greg

[Greg]

Malley Duck - My Rs800 measured the north head striders as 9.95km's. considering different racing lines and u-turns etc, I think it's pretty accurate.

The main problems with S1 (the 625x footpod) is ensuring it is securley mounted on the shoe (i.e that the entire bracket is under as many laces as practicle) and that you calibrate for each pair of shoes. I went for a run with a friend the other day and her readings were all over the place, at the end of the run we found that she had only put half the bracket under her laces and the pod was bouncing around.

The other way to do it s to run with your friend with the 800, and manually adjust your calibration factor (you have to stop and go into settings/calibrate to do it) For example, if its currently .950, then bump it up to .965 then test again, repeat, etc.

Also check that you have the sampling rate as low as possible to increase accuracy. If anything you want it underestimating your pace.

Also, it is noteworthy, that as I run faster, my watch underestimates my pace, however at 5:30's it is spot on.

[MFL3]

Greg, on May 11 2007, 09:20 AM, said:

Malley Duck - My Rs800 measured the north head striders as 9.95km's. considering different racing lines and u-turns etc, I think it's pretty accurate.

The main problems with S1 (the 625x footpod) is ensuring it is securley mounted on the shoe (i.e that the entire bracket is under as many laces as practicle) and that you calibrate for each pair of shoes. I went for a run with a friend the other day and her readings were all over the place, at the end of the run we found that she had only put half the bracket under her laces and the pod was bouncing around.

Also check that you have the sampling rate as low as possible to increase accuracy. If anything you want it underestimating your pace.

Also, it is noteworthy, that as I run faster, my watch underestimates my pace, however at 5:30's it is spot on.

Greg's right - the placement of the s1 footpod can affect the accuracy, even if you use the same calibration setting all the time. The footpod shouldn't move at all, and side to side movement is probably the worst culprit in afffecting accuracy.

I've got the s725x multisport with the s1 footpod which I rotate with 2 pairs of shoes. It's amazing how different the calibration setting are for different pace (I have 2 settings, one for LSDs and one for race pace), even for the same pair. My result for North Head last Saturday was 10.019km which I was ecstatic about. However, it did take a lot of calibration adjustments and time. I usually use a combination of MapMyRun, gmap and the s725x. I use either MapMyRun or gmap to work out roughly the distance I run and plug the distances from the HRM and websites into the Polar formula to get the calibration setting. I adjust the setting a little at a time if I'm not happy with the 'accuracy'. I read somewhere that you need to calibrate over a distance of at least 5400m to increase accuracy, and not the 1200m recommended by Polar.

At the end of the day, it's all relative and calibration will only be as good as the benchmark you use. I don't know how accurate MapMyRun or gmap is, but I'll use it as my benchmark. If I can get within 10-20m of either, I'm happy. If it blows out to 50m or more, I'll keep adjusting.

This is the Polar users' forum which I find useful. Unfortunately you have to join and can't browse as a guest.

Here's the article about s625x accuracy by one of the Polar forum's more revered contributors. It's a little technical but still an eye-opener.
Good luck.

Edited by MFL3, 11 May 2007 - 09:38 PM.

[plu]

Quote

Greg's right - the placement of the s1 footpod can affect the accuracy, even if you use the same calibration setting all the time. The footpod shouldn't move at all, and side to side movement is probably the worst culprit in afffecting accuracy.

The best place to put the foot pod is through the lace section which goes through the tongue of the shoe. It sits high but is locked in at that level.

cheers Plu

[MFL3]

plu, on May 11 2007, 09:51 PM, said:

The best place to put the foot pod is through the lace section which goes through the tongue of the shoe. It sits high but is locked in at that level.

cheers Plu

I agree 100% - that's where I put mine regardless of which pair I use. I tried putting them lower down, closer to the toe section...but found the accuracy to be variable. It's a bugger sometimes - it can get in the way when tying the laces, but you get used to it.