104 replies to this topic

[TRAVY]

The first thing I do when I get up in the morning is go to the loo. Then I head outside for my morning run. 5-8 km into the run I have to go to the loo again. It is giving me the shits ! Every time I run for the past few months a few km into the run and I get the runs. I have played around with fibre in my diet but nothing seems to change the problem.

Can someone help me with this shit of a problem.

[Steve 'The Footman']

I have to go twice too. I give it a few minutes walking around then try again. Stomach massage/ pumping can help too. Much bigger problem when you have to race and there is an early start.

You really just need to get into a routine with bowel movements.

[rocky]

i used to have problems with cramps and the like towards the end of a race or session. ive started taking imodium when i know im going to have a problem, and that solves it. now my program goes something like: toilet normally before session/race, depending when during the day at least once. take imodium and hour or so before, then go after warm up before the start. then its usually fine during the race/session.
but id check with a doctor before starting to take imodium semi-regularly.

hope that helps, its a pretty shit problem to have ;-)

Edited by rocky, 19 July 2007 - 02:17 PM.

[PeeCee]

Travy, common problem with a lot runners I reckon. I find that what you eat the night before has an effect on your toilet needs the next morning. The key being not to eat to much or to late. Have your evening meal as early as you can and lay off anything heavy if you are going to snack after dinner. Whilst running, the more you think about it the worse it gets!

[Bristol City FC]

I totally empathise, theres nothing worse than suffering no2's on a long run, its happenned a couple of times to me, so now I always make sure I'm 'clear' before I go out!

[Cato]

I went to my Doctor and told him I had a problem with my bowels.
He asked me what the problem was.
I told him that every day of the week, 365 days a year at exactly 7:00am I had a bowel movement.
He said that most people would love to be that regular so what was the problem??
So I told him that the problem was, that I don't get out of bed till 7:30.


CATO

[Lilly Legs]

Travy,

Your problem may be psychological. Not that I'm qualified or anything, but I've noticed that if you're anxious about going, you'll want to go whether you need to or not. Ie - tell a room full of people that they are about to be locked in a room for two hours and can't leave to go to the toilet, and I bet you'll have a lot that want to go immediatedly. Oppose that to telling a theater full of people that they can watch the most popular current movie for two hours and get a free ticket at the end to see another if they sit through it, and probably no one will need to go.

Ask yourself if you are suffering a bit of toilet separation anxiety at the 5-8km mark. Distracting your attention with a different route or routine may help deal with that. Planning a pit stop point may also help as well.

[TRAVY]

Lilly Legs, on Jul 19 2007, 01:12 PM, said:

Travy,

Your problem may be psychological. toilet separation anxiety

That's great ! At least it has a name.

Cato hahaha
PeeCee Their may be something in that, and it may not be crap!

I googled toilet separation anxiety and only found information on separation anxiety . And that was for children . This is a big boys problem.
Maybe the answer can be found here

Edited by TRAVY, 19 July 2007 - 06:45 PM.

[Slow Sue]

Travy, Very interesting stuff indeed. Are you able to vary your runs past a loo so that when you head out you can be confident of having a pit stop if need be.
I find that if I run in the mornings I make sure I hang round that little bit longer on the loo and keep on keeping on until I'm sure I'm done. Honestly that worked for me.
This is all in confidence Right..........

[MPHinLondon]

Pick a route that has an outhouse around 6K, or you could do a Borat and knock on the door of a stranger, put on a Kazakhstan accent and say you need to do shits urgently!

[TRAVY]

Slow Sue, on Jul 19 2007, 02:54 PM, said:

Travy, Very interesting stuff indeed. Are you able to vary your runs past a loo so that when you head out you can be confident of having a pit stop if need be.
I find that if I run in the mornings I make sure I hang round that little bit longer on the loo and keep on keeping on until I'm sure I'm done. Honestly that worked for me.
This is all in confidence Right..........

Anything you and I say is just between us. My morning run always goes past a loo. My problem is I am going twice. Once at the start and once about 5kn into the run. Most of my morning runs are up to 15km-18km.

Slow Sue , you in box is full . How am I meant to stalk you.

Edited by TRAVY, 19 July 2007 - 08:29 PM.

[BEN-HUR]

I hear what your saying - some open & sincere posting (except for cato's ) on this extremely frustrating & sensitive issue (original post well worded Travy).
I believe there is a name for it -'runner's runs' - there is a more technical name for it but have forgotten it. The reason I know is because I use to suffer from it - still do at times to a lessor extent if I am not careful. The interesting thing about this problem is that it was more likely to occur if I was going to do a hard (even semi-hard) session or a race. It can be incredibly frustrating as it has messed up plenty of sessions & races in the past. I think it is normal & healthy to have a bowel movement not long after rising in the morning but to go again as soon as say 30min later during a run/race isn't normal. If I was going to do an easy run it wouldn't happen - even if there was an inkling that I needed to 'go' before hand as the stool had more substance (firmer) to it & thus wasn't in a state where it could just 'come through' at the drop of a hat. Fortunately I do most of my training in a National Park thus I was able to 'go' when needed. When this problem does occur I think most of you would agree that it is of a 'runny nature' (for want of a better term). I believed I have sussed it out & it has to do with the amount of fluid in your system. If I drank a good amount of water before training or racing the chances of it happening was remote. I am not too sure why this is so but I have some theories. I certainly believe that an element of it is psychological with the associated hormonal affects of nervousness taking blood away from the G.U.T system. Nervousness also tends to increase the frequency of urination thus removing more fluid from the system which should be replaced. Maybe this fluid not only gets taken up by the kidneys but also an excess amount could be transfered through the intestine thus leading to runnier stools. Another precipitating factor is that when you are pushing hard (towards end of a rep. or running hard up a hill) the blood (oxygen) would naturally be where it is needed most - working muscles - & not in the G.U.T system, thus probably the system goes into spasm & we lose control of its actions. This & the combination of runnier stools & the vertical displacement of the G.U.T during running is a recipe for sphincter overload. So I feel there is more than one reason why this occurs. We can't really eliminate the psychological/nervous effects from our lives nor can we avoid running hard in training & racing in order to achieve our best but by drinking more fluids is something we can control. It is certainly worth a try as it has worked for me.
Hope this helps.

[Rudolf]

Ok well what a surprize, again I have a different view on this shit.
We just had a discussion about shiting on raw vegan forum few days ago, and we all agreed, that person on strict 100% raw fruit based nutrition, has minimum 3 BM per day, but easily upto 6 BM per day.
Comparing to number of meals, the simple rule could be made :

The number of BM equals the number of meals per day.
On and efficient shit production line nothing gets stuck, noting gets accumyulated.
So 1 meal in, 1 shitload out. It take a while after transitioning to real food to get to this regime, but everybody gets there eventualy.

Further, if You colourmark some of Your food, say occasionaly eat blueberries, while other meals are predomintly yellow etc, You can keep checking, how many hours it takes to go out. Before I was raw vegan, it was certainly more than 24H,
typicaly about 36, but sometimes about 48H.
Now it is 24H or less.

So if You are not raw vegan it is very likely, that teh time for a meal to be transformed into a shit is more than 1 day, and so counting the number of meals Yopu take in, I can guess, that at any time You can have easily about 6 shitloads in You.

You get up, You get rid of 1, so still at least 5 left. When You start running early morning, that is the activity which strongly support elimination and detox, and so body strat working in a bitt healthier regime and will eventualy get to push out another shitload.

You should be happy, that via running You at least temporarily decreased the number of shitloads carrying around.

Me personaly I have 2-3 shitloads morning, but I do not go for run straight after getting up.

It is also the question of hydration. If the shitloads are not moving towards the correct end of production line, it more likely means severe dehydration , shitloads are like little boat floating downstream, but if the water is used up and not available for the stream, than the boat are getting stuck.
The facts that You can pee often only means, that body is not able to hold water and or, that kidney have so much toxins to get rid off, that are using more water, than their allocation should be.

So this is what You can do, as You get up, drink slowly 2 litres of warm (needs to be warm) water, or green tea, with some lemon, and if You wish some honey. It can take You up to an hour to get through 2 liters, but that should flush the stuck production line and get all the stuch little boats moving.

[TRAVY]

Rudolf are you saying " I am full of shit"

O.K THIS IS THE DIARY OF THE LAST 24 HOURS
8PM Thursday ,19 July 2007 footlong Veggie subway
9pm A large glass of water
10pm Sleep (no special cuddles)
4:45 am Friday awake then unload
5am hit the road
6km in pass 1st dunny
9km pass 2nd dunny
12km pass 3rd dunny
18km home "no crap !
Maybe if I do eat less after 6pm it will help

[SlimDJ]

Great analysis by almost all of the contributors. About 1 in every 4 longs runs I get the runs. It occurs after about 30 minutes of running and I only get about 2 minutes of warning (hence running near toilets only increases the chances of a safe haven, it doesn't solve the problem).

After about a year of this happening I did an analysis of what the causes were (including a chat with a dietician), and discovered that it is a perfectly normal, and manageable problem. My discovery came about when I realised that I never had the problem during races. This could be because of hydration, but I think it was more likely that I was awake for at least 1 hour before each event.

I have managed to solve the problem by spending 15 minutes before each early morning run just walking around the house, getting dressed and stretching. This usually solves the problem for me, but I'll also occasionally take a pit stop after 20 minutes (even if I don't need it yet), just to clear out the residual stuff.

[Peterhorse]

doubtless this topic will be a most lurked/least posted contender. even the girls i run with speak freely on this issue and share ideas - but only during a run! they have some very funny stories too - enough to write a book, with chapters such as "the construction site"; "off the bank and into the river"; "good morning to you too"; "not enough paper"; "i'm a regular customer...please can I"; "all 7-elevens are not the same"; "how long before you open"; "what do you mean you don't have the key"; "sorry i'm late, i sort of slept in" etc....

tested and useful options (some also listed by others above) include:-
- less or no beer/alcohol after dinner the night before to avoid being too relaxed in the wrong muscles
- go twice before you head out the door to avoid having loose change jingling around
- don't eat too much too late to avoid still processing it as you are heading off for an early run
- save the vindaloo curries for sunday nights
- two glasses of warm/hot water as soon as you rise, then 15mins later, success or caffeine works the same but take a little longer to hit you
- try to go even though you don't feel the urge
- don't eat or drink too much sugary food/drink before you run to avoid it going straight through you (includes honey in my case)
- planning the route just in case
- thinking poisitive...yeah right

don't stress about it for training runs i reckon - i've given up worrying about it and just apologise to the training partners and arrange to meet them at some landmark. it's only a big deal if it causes a problem in races, or if you are just too far from a public loo to keep running, even hunched over.

i wonder how long this thread will go?

Edited by Peterhorse, 20 July 2007 - 10:18 AM.

[BEN-HUR]

Rudolf, on Jul 20 2007, 07:21 AM, said:

Ok well what a surprize, again I have a different view

I'm not surprised. What you say is true to some extent but there are other precipitating factors which I think need to be looked into to resolve this problem - particularly when it interferes with racing & hard training sessions too often.

[MPHinLondon]

Colour coding your crap, the best thing I've ever heard you say Rudolf.

I think it was prof who said that before he goes to bed every night, he parks up on the toilet for a good 20 mins and then in the morning it's the one before your the run and you're away.

I've never had an issue during any race, which is because I'm up early enough and you make sure you get it sorted, you don't have the luxary every morning, so somethings gotta give.

Reckon Petes got it right.

[Sunset]

I occasionally get post-run 'problems' but I think that is more diet related.

[SlimDJ]

MPH, on Jul 19 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

parks up on the toilet for a good 20 mins

I have heard that this can cause hemorrhoids &/or hernias, and that the passing of stools should be done with out strain.

[FakePlasticTrees]

Don't run downhill.

[Spud]

Drink orange juice

[Mars]

Rudolf, great ideas with the colour coded shit audit.

Gotta go get me some brownberries...

[MPHinLondon]

Slim DJ, on Jul 20 2007, 12:23 PM, said:

I have heard that this can cause hemorrhoids &/or hernias, and that the passing of stools should be done with out strain.

My understanding of this therory was to just sit there, relax, read the paper, catch up on some paperwork etc, but just give the body a chance to do it's thing san strain.

[Boris]

What a topic to be posting your first ever post on!

I have a similar problem. Sometimes, a single morning visit to the loo isn't enough and it turns out that the first movement was just 'running interference'. I was recently in the UK visiting my wife's family. I went for an early morning run - in retrospect I was glad it was 'early' - and ended up leaving a deposit under a 300 year old oak tree beside a Norman church. And then it happened again a few days later; running along a disused railway track popular with dog walkers and I have to go. Vertical banks and stinging nettles on either side of me, I had no choice but to stop and squat - I apologise to the middle-aged lady walking her whippet who rounded a corner and saw me straining.

Laughs aside, I'm running my first Melb. marathon in October and really need to 'get my shit together' regarding this issue. Planning on eating earlier and less the night before and getting up earlier as well.

I have to go ... bye

[TRAVY]

Please note : I get up at 4:45am and start my run at 5am. I am not getting up any earlier to have a glass of water , walk around the house, sing jingle bells and have a second crap. The answer has to be the day before. I run with a group of 5 other runners all quicker than me . If the need a run-crap they can catch up I can not . Maybe I should just run faster then I could run-crap-catchup-run.

Shit I am confused

[Also Ran]

Boris, on Jul 19 2007, 11:12 PM, said:

What a topic to be posting your first ever post on!

Welcom to CR posting!

Quote

.... I apologise to the middle-aged lady walking her whippet who rounded a corner and saw me straining.

I find that if I am forced to go during a run, there is zero straining involved – very, very easy and quick process. Running again in about 10 seconds.

Quote

I have to go ... bye

No worries, seems me & plenty of others know that feeling!
Good luck with the marathon training!

[laotze]

I think Rudolph has hit paydirt here, as he often does when you get to the bottom of his posts.

Lots of fluid, plenty of natural fibre - eg fruit and raw vegetables (salads), and the system will work well.

Timing is partly habit, partly stimulation that then reinforces habit.

Animals eat then crap. Humans tend to do this also, unless they train themselves not to.

One thing that will help flush out the bowels is a glass of warm water first thing in the morning. Then, a visit to the crapper when it feels right, then out the door for the run.

After a while, it should become habitual.

But not always guaranteed as changes in diet, sleep pattern, or activities can muck up the routine.

I like to get up at least an hour before I leave for a long run and have something light to eat with a cup of tea. Then by the time I am in my gear ready to go out the door, I am ready to go, and I do, then I go.

However, I too have suffered the agonies of a desperate search for a suitable relieving station.

Disconcerting was the very early morning stop at the toilets in Fitzroy Gardens, only to then find I was the object of attention of a couple of loiters at this notorious haunt for men so inclined.

Not quite as bad as detouring for two hundred metres to a public toilet only to find it locked.

Or the time when I had to use a McDonald's toilet, and as I was leaving a little boy came in with his father and said 'pooh it stinks in here.'

Edited by awiseman, 20 July 2007 - 04:10 PM.

[cakeboy]

awiseman, on Jul 20 2007, 04:03 PM, said:

Or the time when I had to use a McDonald's toilet, and as I was leaving a little boy came in with his father and said 'pooh it stinks in here.'

Just as an aside, Awiseman.....this behaviour, ie sneaking into the Maccas loo without purchasing anything but giving indications you might (in Europe at least) is known as a "McShit with lies".....

[The Owl]

Ahhhh...so good to know I'm not alone.

I second the awiseman approach...I get up 40min or so before I run, have a glass of warm water with a bit of lemon juice or apple cider vinegar in it and potter about getting dressed etc. usually I'm good to go just before I'm due to head out the door.

Having said that, I often find I need to go again after a couple of kms. I know exactly where all the public toilets are and what time they open. I have a great relationship with the staff at Leichhardt Pool who let me in to use the loo in the early hours before the other toilets are open. That's not to say I haven't been caught short before! if you ever see me slowly walking with an expression of intense concentration etched on my face you know I'm trying to make the last km home with pelvic floor muscles clenched tightly.

Tesso suggested coffee to me once but for me I don't need encouragement to go but need to time it perfectly.

[SlimDJ]

TRAVY, on Jul 19 2007, 11:52 PM, said:

I am not getting up any earlier...

4:45 is early. Perhaps a nappy will fix the problem.

awiseman, on Jul 20 2007, 12:03 AM, said:

Disconcerting was the very early morning stop at the toilets in Fitzroy Gardens, only to then find I was the object of attention of a couple of loiters at this notorious haunt for men so inclined.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[lostboy]

awiseman, on Jul 20 2007, 04:03 PM, said:

I think Rudolph has hit paydirt here, as he often does when you get to the bottom of his posts....
Not quite as bad as detouring for two hundred metres to a public toilet only to find it locked.

You may have cleaned up another medal there, to go with that little bronze Comrades...I mean it takes a brave man to wade through all that to get to the bottom of Rudi's intentions.

& while I'm on the subject, I did get caught once in the depths of Mumbai/India recently...luckily I was directed around the corner by a sympathetic sikh, to the "backside entry" of a building with a toilet.

[MissZ]

This is a good topic. I figure my profile will show I was perusing it so I might as well share my experience.

I get up, go to the loo, but there is nothing. I sit there for a few minutes, trying to relax, reading etc, still nothing. I start my run and after about 15-20 minutes I have to go BAD, I can't keep running and I have to find a toilet or bush or tree immediately. This has led me to some very precarious situations! It does not happen all the time, but often enough that it really sucks. I have emailled my local council to ask them to be sure my local toilets are always unlocked by 6AM as they are supposed to be, but sometimes this does not happen, and when I am running somewhere away from home, well, I have had to be creative.

I have read quite a bit about training yourself and diet issues, and will definitely try some of the suggestions in this thread now. Getting up 40 minutes before my run is not an option. My feeling is that its not diet related but just something kinda random and to do with the motion of running and there is not much I can do about it, but I would certainly love to solve this problem if I can.

[vat]

Get up earlier - that's what I do.

[chilliman]

Mars, on Jul 20 2007, 01:54 PM, said:

Rudolf, great ideas with the colour coded shit audit.

A chewed raw thai (or habanero for the immune) chilli can also be used as a marker.

[Lynda]

I think you can train yourself to go on demand.

When I have a morning run on, the schedule is something like: up at 5:20am, porridge in microwave, start getting into running gear. Sometime between 5:20 and 5:45 I will go without fail.

When I have to go to work early (instead of run), I often don't need to go until later.

If I'm running in the middle of the day I think whether I have to go depends on how long since I ate, what I ate the night before (and how much) and whether I have drunk any coffee!

[brizza]

it does take a while to get the bowel habit happenning,i used to eat constipating food and stay away from hard vegies etc,as i am easy pleased in the bowel/train/race dept,i found that by visualising a race the day before i could induce a BM with the little adrenaline surge.-brizza

[SlingRunner]

Run on a cross country course. If you have to go, go for it. People will think it's mud...

[Fred]

The Slow & The Furious, on Jul 21 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

Run on a cross country course. If you have to go, go for it. People will think it's mud...

I thought it was just me who had this problem.

So I apologise to the lady in Mitchells Pass who's garden I used to have a poo in one morning.

[PaddymelonPete]

At least I'm not the only one that suffers from it. Personally I find it more of a problems in the early mornings than afternoons or evenings. Now I never leave home in the early morning without a suply of toilet paper on me. At 4am in the morning it's pretty easy to find a quite dark spot without too many people around on the trails.

After getting myself locked in a toilet with one of those magnetic locks at 4:30am the other week, I'll just stick to the woods. (Took a minute or two of kicking the door hard to finally force it free).

[laotze]

MissZ, on Jul 20 2007, 09:18 PM, said:

This is a good topic. I figure my profile will show I was perusing it so I might as well share my experience.

I get up, go to the loo, but there is nothing. I sit there for a few minutes, trying to relax, reading etc, still nothing. I start my run and after about 15-20 minutes I have to go BAD, I can't keep running and I have to find a toilet or bush or tree immediately. This has led me to some very precarious situations! It does not happen all the time, but often enough that it really sucks. I have emailled my local council to ask them to be sure my local toilets are always unlocked by 6AM as they are supposed to be, but sometimes this does not happen, and when I am running somewhere away from home, well, I have had to be creative.

I have read quite a bit about training yourself and diet issues, and will definitely try some of the suggestions in this thread now. Getting up 40 minutes before my run is not an option. My feeling is that its not diet related but just something kinda random and to do with the motion of running and there is not much I can do about it, but I would certainly love to solve this problem if I can.

The solution for you, MissZ might be to have a short 15 minute loop course back to your house at the start of each run. You will gradually get the distance and timing right, then you can set off again on your real training run.

Edited by awiseman, 22 July 2007 - 04:32 PM.

[SumDamChick]

hahahaha

[rodthehornet]

Never mind one. I must hold the current crapper record for race day at four. Day in question unfolded with breakfast and number 2/No.1 at home. Drive to Katoomba for 6 foot and portaloo is utilised for number 2/No.2. Race start and after crossing Cox's River nature called - mid race diversion amongst the trees for number 2/No.3. Tackled Mini/Pluvio and started on Black Range. That familiar feeling started again and a further diversion into the forest for number 2/No.4.

I put it down to trying out the AIS carbo load for 3 days leading up to the race, though I am a repeat offender in this area.


The Hornet

[Bristol City FC]

This problem really isnt funny! happenned to me today, running around the outside of Centennial Park after 2k the bowel rumblings started and it got to the point where I had to walk most of the rest of the way back to the office, as the running motion were in danger of giving me unstoppable motions! made it back thank god, but thats what happens when you dont go before you leave home!

[Rudolf]

rodthehornet, on Jul 22 2007, 09:56 PM, said:

I put it down to trying out the AIS carbo load for 3 days leading up to the race, though I am a repeat offender in this area.

I think that AIS carbo is load of shit, and You got 4 loads of that.

[SlimDJ]

Rudolf, on Jul 23 2007, 05:47 PM, said:

I think that AIS carbo is load of shit, and You got 4 loads of that.

WOW..... I am amazed that you would say that. Perhaps you could start another thread on your thoughts???

[Tilly]

Oh boy...glad some other people are dealing with these issues. I truly believe that my bowel has a homing beacon that signals everytime a public loo is within a 2km radius of me during my runs.

During training I usually run the same course because I know there will be 4 loos along the way (allowing for 8 potential stops - out and back course). My record is 6 loo stops during a 12km run!!! Very very annoying!!!!!!

I put a lot of this down to my vego diet. I eat a lot of fruit and veges. I usually eat just before I run too, so that doesn't help matters.

In order to stop this from happening during a race I go on a low residue diet (no fibre) that basically consists of white bread/bagels, crumpets, white rice, and honey. I have to go off coffee and anything with milk. I often dread the 2-3 days leading up to an event because I have to change my eating habits so drastically.

This has made it difficult to participate in group runs (without lots of pre-warning).

Tilly

[Bristol City FC]

Tilly, on Jul 25 2007, 08:40 AM, said:

During training I usually run the same course because I know there will be 4 loos along the way (allowing for 8 potential stops - out and back course). My record is 6 loo stops during a 12km run!!! Very very annoying!!!!!!


Tilly

Have you thought of running with a nappy? or, if you do a diffeent route with no toilets, you could always carry one of those 'pooper scoopers'!

Edited by Bristol City FC, 25 July 2007 - 02:41 PM.

[Rudolf]

Slim DJ, on Jul 24 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

WOW..... I am amazed that you would say that. Perhaps you could start another thread on your thoughts???

tgis topic was talked about many times on various threads and I explained my vies from many angles, I really do not feel like repeating all this all over again, it will just annoy everybody. The first point is that carbloading is misunderstood and lots of it is missconcept and is doing more bad than any potential good, and is only aplicable to very serious extremely high millage elite runners and only 1-2 per year. And that it is the issue what is used as carbs - which again sport nutritionist would be the lasty person I will take advice from.

But please do not start it here, do search for old topics, thank for understanding

[rodthehornet]

Rudolf, on Jul 24 2007, 09:47 AM, said:

I think that AIS carbo is load of shit, and You got 4 loads of that.

I now feel a complete person, seeing as Rudolf has put sh#t on me. Never before in my posting career has such an honour been bestowed.

Rudolf my point wasnt the carbo load, because I was just trying out the diet to see what it was about. It was the volume of food that I had to put in my mouth over the 3 days I suspect caused my problems.

Now if you can just leave me alone.... I have to put my laptop down and tear off some toilet paper .

The Hornet