122 replies to this topic

[rodthehornet]

Spud,

I was talking to Shogun the other day and threw up 6 foot to JC, looping hellgate gorge and then back to Katoomba.  My guess would be 105km and would be a great little adventure.

If this one appeals to a few, let us know and I can sort out.  I could park on Black Range with drop bags.  That would turn it into 30/45/30 legs.  I could run the middle loop or tag team the run with some else so they could run first 75km and I could do the back end from Black Range.

BTW, now out of the closet as support crew for Team Shogun on C2K.  Still waiting for one other to do the same.


Cheers
The Hornet

[Spud]

I recall we talked about this before too Rod. Certainly great training, a tough 105kms.
Any suggestions as to a time? Would have to be in October I guess for those doing GNW in November.
May be booked out in October with another adventure though.

[tim]

rodthehornet, on Aug 16 2007, 11:17 AM, said:

Spud,

I was talking to Shogun the other day and threw up 6 foot to JC, looping hellgate gorge and then back to Katoomba.  My guess would be 105km and would be a great little adventure.

Cheers
The Hornet

this would be a great run but it would be handy to have someone drive around to a few places with water and food.

I am thinking an ideal date would be 3 weeks before the GNW.

[milov]

rodthehornet, on Aug 15 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

Spud,

I was talking to Shogun the other day and threw up 6 foot to JC, looping hellgate gorge and then back to Katoomba.  
The Hornet

please refer to my (12foot)race report regarding throwing up on this trail  

milov

Edited by milov, 16 August 2007 - 02:47 PM.

[Innes]

I reckon this run sounds great.

I would be available to drive up the day before and drop bags off.

I would be definately up for this run.

If any help is needed sorting it out, let me know.

[tim]

ok there seems to be some talk about running the 6 Foot track to the caves and then around the hellgate loop and back along the 6 foot track to the tree.  I think it is about 105km.

Some time in October seems to be a date thrown in the ring.

I have started this thread for us to expand on the idea without hijacking the C2K thread.

[Innes]

Nice one Tim.

As stated, I would be up for this and happy to help with bag drops before the event.

has anyone got a map of this route?

I don't know where the hellgate gorge takes us....

[Fats]

I'm likely to be doing a few long runs in the mountains around then in training for Kepler. Probably won't do the full monty but I might run a pikers option of 4-5 hours and help out with some water/food drops if needed.

By Hellgate loop do you mean along Kanagra Walls Rd. and then up the Morara Boss firetrail?

[Spud]

Fats, on Aug 16 2007, 06:12 PM, said:

By Hellgate loop do you mean along Kanagra Walls Rd. and then up the Morara Boss firetrail?

Yep Fats, check out the fatass link for the Hellgate course route. Gotta love that gnarly descent to Hellgate and back out along the Moorara Boss firetrail. It's all 2P's fault.  

[tim]

I still remember running along from the Caves and seeing 2P, we had a chat and then he pointed at the bush and said that way.  I thought he was joking since there was no track and it just went off up a mountain.  Cool run.

[Twopennys]

Depending on the date and how quickly I can get some fitness back I definitely want some of this action

[Brick]

As long as the date fits in with the boss and I am not overseas I am in for the full monty.

Brick

[Martin Dugdale]

you are all sick, sick sick, but maybe I am too. aaah

[Twopennys]

This would be a helluva run (and it wouldn't take much tinkering with the route to turn it into a 100 miler) but I'm not so sure it would be that great an idea for folks wanting to back up for GNW and C2K. It would be a bit of a strain on the old bods.

Tim and Spud (Edit: and Terry) are the only folks to have done Hellgate and 12 Foot seperately - so I'm just talking through my fat ass - but though it is shorter I reckon the run proposed would be harder than an 18 Foot.

From the point you would commence descending to JC there are only 2 x 2k flat(ish) sections and the 3k steeper bit of Blacks Range that would give you any respite from relentless up and down till you hit Megalong Rd - oh yeah and the climb up the Moorara Boss makes Pluvi seem like a speed hump

But hey if you guys want to really smash yourselves up then fill your boots!

Edited by Twopennys, 17 August 2007 - 08:28 AM.

[Spud]

2P, I agree, this is one helluva run. I remember contemplating a double loop of Hellgate till you sent us down that crappy mica ridden trail to the gorge and back out. I was toasted by the time I reached Black Range and decided one lap was enough.
A different mind set would see you through this and a different pacing strategy would help too.  

Not sure I will make it to this run but for those looking for a tough hilly trail run, this is a beauty.
I do have concerns re-hydration/aid out there.It can get quite warm in October and I'd suggest carrying 3ltrs as a minimum. This of course depends on any aid been put out. The locations you used for the Hellgate run were perfect 2P, plus the additional Black Range drop.

[Trifecta]

If you guys get a firm date i may be in..sounds amazing..
Will get me moving after running across the Gobi Desert last month..
I will be a definate..
Hopefully i can drag some help along for all of us!!

[pipi]

I would be very curious about giving it a try if it were on the first or last weekends of October.  Probably a good one to start a couple of hours before sun rise...

Pipi

[Innes]

It would be good to get a definate day in the calendar for this one...

How about Saturday 6th October??

I would start this one with a pikers option at about 80 kilometres in mind and see how the body goes, I also reckon it would be good to start at 06:00 at latest...

I ran 14:53 on sat at 12 foot and badly want revenge as could of gone a lot faster... Be good to really go for this one.

[rodthehornet]

Tim,

Yeah, three weeks prior to GNW would probably be ideal.  That would make it Saturday, 20th October.

I would cover Black Range with a drop and would leave my car there so in effect we would have two drops there.  If someone covers Kanangra Road where 2P set up the card table, plus a refill going thru JC that should give us enough drops.  Other option would be another pair that want to share the run could tag team at Kanangra Walls Road.

Legs would work out:

Katoomba to Black Range 30km
Black Range to JC 15km
JC to Kanangra Road 15km
Kanangra Road to Black Range 15km
Black Range to Katoomba 30km

These are approximates but would be easily covered with 2-3 litre pack.  I have attached 2P's HG maps for ease of reference.

As a guide for anyone thinking about it, last time I did the HG loop in 6 hours, against a 5 hour six foot time.  2P estimated the loop as 20% harder than 6 foot and that is very realistic.

Cheers
Rod

Attached Files

•  HGMap1.pdf   1.5MB   14 downloads
•  HGMap2.pdf   1.4MB   11 downloads
•  HGMap3.pdf   1.83MB   15 downloads
•  HGMap4.pdf   1.38MB   10 downloads

Edited by rodthehornet, 17 August 2007 - 01:59 PM.

[Spud]

Just a note that additional to the suggested drops there is water available (usually) at 16km (Cox), 34km (Black Range Campground) and again on the return at 71km and 90kms.
Do not underestimate the diificulty of this run.

Edited by Spud, 17 August 2007 - 02:17 PM.

[rodthehornet]

Spud,

Thanks for that.  Forgot about the tanks at the river.  With water in the tanks that would break the long legs down a bit further.

No way I will be underestimating this run.  Only planning on doing 75km. I will leave the full monty to the experts.


Cheers
Rod

[Innes]

Are people thinking of doing the full monty or various legs?

I am up for having a go at the whole thing with get out options...

I can get a mate to crew in my 4wd as well with drinks and bags ferried around the course for people...

I would need to give him plenty notice though so 20th October ??

Cheers

[rodthehornet]

Innes,

Lock in 20/10/07.  If you can organise your mate for that date it will help heaps.  I will work it out behind the scenes with Tim/2P and we will post more details here and on Fatass site.

Rod

[Innes]

Ok,
My mate is a definate, just spoke to him...
So we will have 4wd that he will drive around on the day where he's required..
looking forward to it....

[Trifecta]

Boys,shoot me some more details..
I might be able to get us some help and i have a 4wd
as well..
I am in!
Gawd help me!

    

[tim]

just thinking about this one I would be thinking this could take me about 15 - 17 hrs.  Although Spud may be able to run it all in daylight.

[Martin Dugdale]

One option ( piker 1) would be to start and finish at Megalong the thought of Nellies glen after  HG is a bit scary.

[Twopennys]

Spud took 5.40 to do Hellgate in April - he then did leg 1 of 12' in 4.55 - so I reckon even someone like Spud would be looking at 13 to 14 hours or so if he were to do the full monty.

Depending on what hurts you most either the descent down from Pluvi or the ascent up from the Coxs (maybe both) are going to be pure pain.

[Spud]

Not much hope of finishing this one in daylight even with the extra hour or so in October.
2P's on the money, I reckon at least 13hrs to finish this, likely longer.
I'm just recalling the climb out of Moorara Boss and then contemplating the return to the tree from there....giddyup!
Now stop talking about it or I'll be tempted.
Damn you 2P.  

[noindifference]

I am very tempted myself (Innes, you are so motivated that some of your motivation already leaked on me). But I would start as early as possible - 5AM the latest because it is nice to run in the fresh early morning hours (the only fresh times of the day for sure at his time of the year).

[Brick]

OK, it looks like it is going to be run on the 20th October.

I would love to do the full Monty but my mother is over from the UK so I can not have the car the wife, mother and kids need it.

So yet again I am in need of a lift up and back.
I think it will take me about 15-16 hours for this run.

So if possible anybody going past or near to Pennant Hills doing the whole 105KMs it would be great if I could get a lift.

Brick

[inganbangan]

Sounds fantastic. I think I'm in. I'm stuggling to regain my fitness after a long time of not-much-running, however if the Sydney Marathon goes well I'm keen on GNW 100k. I tell myself this would be good training.

Really I'm just a sucker for running in the mountains. Any excuse will do. Based on a 6:40 HG and 13:50 12FT I guess I may be able to manage 18 hours, taking a bit of fitness loss into account.  

First light at Katoomba that day is at 0446 and last light is at 1840. Spud could possibly squeeze his run into daylight. I reckon starting at 4.30 would be the way to go to make the most of that light. However, for some that means a really early wake up due to the travelling time.

I mostly blame 2P for this by even contemplating Hellgate. Good work!

Edited by inganbangan, 20 August 2007 - 12:12 PM.

[Innes]

Its interesting to see the various options for starting times....
I reckon it would have to be 06:00.
Thats gets us away early without people having to leave home at 2 in the morning or something crazy...
It also gives about 13 hrs of daylight so should at least see everyone back on the homeward path before nighfall.
I am not sure on the route of hellgate and will definately be heading up there in a couple weeks to do the 45 k hellgate option on its own if anyone fancy's it?.
I also have a driver and 4wd and Trifecta may have the same.
With Rod also leaving his car on the course, the dropbags should be welll organised.
This looks like a great adventure to me, may change my opinion after running hellgate....
October 20th --- bring it on!!!

[Twopennys]

inganbangan, on Aug 20 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

I mostly blame 2P for this by even contemplating Hellgate. Good work!

Hey don't blame me - I just looked at a map one day....  it was the likes of Tim and Rod who came up with gluing it to 12' (Twelvegate?).

I'd dearly love to come up and play but I will likely be in NZ on Oct 20 - bummer.

Innes apart from the maps that Rod posted the GPS waypoints (if you have a garmin) and detailed course description are here Even in Winter for a solo attempt you will need to do at least one water drop at the junction of Blood Filly Fire Trail and Kanangra Rd and preferrably another at Black Range/Moorara Boss intersection. NB There is bugger-all mobile reception and parts of the Hellgate course are very remote in terms of the liklihood of seeing other people.

Have fun.

Cheers, 2P

[Spud]

2P, I recall Rod and I talking to you about a 12FT/Hellgate hybrid not long after we finished Hellgate back in April?
You're not getting out of it that easily  

[tim]

fatass is about people dreaming up crazy runs and then finding people silly enough to run it.

this is fatass at its best.

[Innes]

Quote

Innes apart from the maps that Rod posted the GPS waypoints (if you have a garmin) and detailed course description are here

Thanks for that, I have a garmin so will load it up...

have to do my own water drops beforehand I guess....

I am running Hellgate on sat 1/9 if anyone fancies a day out....

[Jogger]

tim - the correct flimpyhead quote is here

[inganbangan]

Twopennys, on Aug 20 2007, 02:45 PM, said:

Hey don't blame me - I just looked at a map one day....  it was the likes of Tim and Rod who came up with gluing it to 12' (Twelvegate?).

Hellfoot?

[tim]

well 6 + 6 = 12 and then you add the hellgate loop maybe you should add another 6.

so we simply should call it - 666

[noindifference]

Innes, I am with you on the 1st of September. I want to experiment that trail. Where do we meet? What time do we start?

[noindifference]

Some people where trying to find a better name than the acronym 12FT - HellGate.

"Twelvegate" was suggested.

But what about "Twhellvegate"? What the hell? With that name the run still keeps its scary bit. For me that would be the right name to use.

[Twopennys]

noindifference, on Aug 20 2007, 04:26 PM, said:

Some people where trying to find a better name than the acronym 12FT - HellGate.

"Twelvegate" was suggested.

But what about "Twhellvegate"? What the hell? With that name the run still keeps its scary bit. For me that would be the right name to use.

I like it!

[Innes]

Quote

Innes, I am with you on the 1st of September. I want to experiment that trail. Where do we meet? What time do we start?

Good stuff, i sent you a mail.
leaving Sydney 5:30 am....

Leaving from Concord if you can make your way over...

Speak soon.

[terry]

Count me in for this one. Added some photos in the hellgate folder.
Check out Scurry heading down the rough track towards the Jenolen River.
Its a nice part of the world out there, looking forward to it.

[Twopennys]

Innes if you are planning to leave Concord (BTW we are neighbours) at 5.30 understand that the water drops take a fair amount of time.

To get to the first one you have to wind your way down to the caves and then back up the other side - I can't remember how long it took me but I'd guess 20 to 30 mins each way.

If you do a drop at Black Range/Moorara Boss as well that will add more time - it might only be 6k or so from the deviation but again it will take you about 20 mins each way.

Why not camp up there on the Friday night?

If you are thinking about giving the water drops a miss - don't! You will need at least one.

Sorry if I sound like a bit of a worry wart but Moorara Boss fire trail is very infrequently visited and bloody hard work.

Cheers, 2P

[scurry711]

terry, on Aug 20 2007, 01:57 AM, said:

Count me in for this one. Added some photos in the hellgate folder.
Check out Scurry heading down the rough track towards the Jenolen River.
Its a nice part of the world out there, looking forward to it.

Terry, what's the link?

Did you do 12 foot on Saturday?

[Brick]

Innes, on Aug 20 2007, 01:56 PM, said:

Its interesting to see the various options for starting times....
I reckon it would have to be 06:00.
Thats gets us away early without people having to leave home at 2 in the morning or something crazy...
It also gives about 13 hrs of daylight so should at least see everyone back on the homeward path before nighfall.
I am not sure on the route of hellgate and will definately be heading up there in a couple weeks to do the 45 k hellgate option on its own if anyone fancy's it?.
I also have a driver and 4wd and Trifecta may have the same.
With Rod also leaving his car on the course, the dropbags should be welll organised.
This looks like a great adventure to me, may change my opinion after running hellgate....
October 20th --- bring it on!!!

That's a shame I would of loved to give this a go but I will be flying to German then.
Have fun all.

Brick

[Spud]

Nice photos Terry, glad someone captured some of that gnarly descent to hell!
Scurry the link is on the Fatass section of the CR gallery.

Edited by Spud, 20 August 2007 - 06:59 PM.

[rodthehornet]

What:    Hellfoot 105
Where:  Explorers Tree, Katoomba
Time:    6am
Date:     20/10/2007

Route as mentioned.  6 foot track to Jenolan Caves, then to Mt. Whiteley, Kanangra Walls Road, Blood Filly Fire Trail, Moorara Bass Fire Trail to Black Range and return to Katoomba.  Maps are on the thread for the loop and will be needed as you end up in some remote areas.  

Two support vehicles are being organised that will ferry out the drop bags - remember to pack food and drink as it is difficult to cater for this one.  The drop bags will be at the 30-35km (Black Range/Deviation), 60km (Kanangra Walls/Blood Filly intersection) and 75km (Moorara Bass/Black Range intersection).   Esky/ice will be at each drop location to keep your drinks nice and cool.  As we get closer a further drop may be arranged for Megalong Road for the long trip home.  

Shorter options on the day would be available, including the 45km loop which could be done by parking at Deviation campground and heading off when runners come through.


Cheers
Rod