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Australian Ultra Grand Slam Plebiscite


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Poll: Australian Ultra Grand Slam Plebiscite (144 member(s) have cast votes)

Please read the post below before voting

  1. I have read the post (138 votes [95.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 95.17%

  2. I have not read the post (7 votes [4.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.83%

Type of runs to include in Grand Slam

  1. Trail Only (53 votes [36.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.55%

  2. Trail and Road (92 votes [63.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.45%

Number of runs to include in Grand Slam

  1. Four (117 votes [80.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.69%

  2. Five (10 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  3. Six (8 votes [5.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.52%

  4. All (10 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

Timeframe of Grand Slam

  1. 9-12 months (81 votes [55.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.86%

  2. 6-9 months (8 votes [5.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.52%

  3. 3-6 months (45 votes [31.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.03%

  4. 12 weeks (11 votes [7.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.59%

Runs to include in Grand Slam

  1. Alpine Skyrun (VIC 100 Mile Trail Run With Overnight Stop) (48 votes [7.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.73%

  2. Scenic Rim (QLD 100 Mile Trail Run) (47 votes [7.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.57%

  3. Glasshouse (QLD 100 Mile Trail Run) (133 votes [21.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.42%

  4. Great Ocean Walk* (VIC 100 Mile Trail Run) (98 votes [15.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.78%

  5. Dwellingup* (WA 100 Mile Trail Run) (59 votes [9.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.50%

  6. Great North Walk (NSW 100 Mile Trail Run) (128 votes [20.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.61%

  7. Coast to Kosciusko (NSW 150 Mile Road Run) (99 votes [15.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.94%

  8. Other (please post details) (9 votes [1.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.45%

Sanctioning/Administration of Grand Slam

  1. No formal sanctioning/administration (21 votes [14.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.48%

  2. AURA (89 votes [61.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.38%

  3. Cool Running (32 votes [22.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.07%

  4. Other (please post details) (3 votes [2.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.07%

Award/Trophy for Grand Slam

  1. Running Trophy (35 votes [18.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.52%

  2. Australiana Trophy (Emu, Roo, etc) (43 votes [22.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.75%

  3. Shirt (28 votes [14.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.81%

  4. Belt Buckle (57 votes [30.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.16%

  5. Mug (7 votes [3.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  6. Large Tin of Milo (14 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

  7. Clock/Barometer (2 votes [1.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.06%

  8. Other (please post details) (3 votes [1.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.59%

Fee for Grand Slam (in addition to race entry)

  1. Free (31 votes [21.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.38%

  2. Cover costs (admin, trophy) (113 votes [77.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.93%

  3. Other (please post details) (1 votes [0.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.69%

Stakeholder Type - I am an...

  1. Active ultra runner that plans/hopes to complete a Grand Slam one day (90 votes [62.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.07%

  2. Active ultra runner that does not plan/hope to complete a Grand Slam (18 votes [12.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.41%

  3. Ex ultra runner (1 votes [0.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.69%

  4. Interested party/onlooker (30 votes [20.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  5. Other (6 votes [4.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.14%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 spoonman

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 11:21 AM

Australian Ultra Grand Slam Plebiscite
http://www.google.co...ine: plebiscite

This poll is a non binding survey of opinions toward a an ultra 'Grand Slam' in Australia. It is not endorsed by Cool Running, AURA or any other organisation, though it may be used to influence any future decisions.

Remember that in CR polls you only get to vote once - think for yourself, make your vote count. When voting, start with a blank canvas - do not fixate on details such as when particular events are currently run.  It is possible that some newer runs could shift their date if the demand was there.

As a background, the USA Ultra Grand Slam model involves four 100 mile trail runs in separate states that occur over a 12 week period.  A seperate entry fee is required to attain the Grand Slam and a sculpted eagle head trophy is awarded.  The USA also has several other 'slams' that vary from this format but they are less formal.

There are some initial assumptions made in this poll - that track runs will not be included and that the minimum distance is 100 miles. The following provides a bit more detail about some of the questions in this poll...

Runs to include in Grand Slam
What specific runs should be included in the Grand Slam? You can vote for more than one. They are listed in the order they run. As mentioned previously, do not get hung up on when events currently occur, this may change. Note that Great Ocean Walk and Dwellingup are not yet official runs but have been included due to their potential to become official events.

Award/Trophy for Grand Slam
What should the award be? You can vote for more than one. Yes, the Milo tin is a homage to Milov - first to complete an unofficial Australian Grand Slam.

Stakeholder Type
What is your interest in the Grand Slam? This is only included to get a feel for the type of respondents.

Feel free to post how to vote cards. At least there are no trees involved. :rolleyes:

Support our Australian advertisers:

#2 Blue Dog

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 11:33 AM

Great stuff Spoonman. :rolleyes:

Edited by Blue Dog, 05 February 2008 - 03:51 PM.


#3 Spud

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:27 PM

It's a tough call, I would definitely prefer trail runs only to be included but it is hard to go past C2K. (It is half and half though) :rolleyes:
Interesting results so far.

Great poll Paul.

#4 spoonman

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:29 PM

I forgot to add... please don't corrupt the voting by using tactics such as this.  We don't want another Florida Cheese incident.  And if you hadn't thought of that, well this request wasn't aimed at you, and i'm sorry for putting it in your mischievous little mind.  :rolleyes:

#5 Mister G

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:41 PM

Given half of C2K is on unsealed surfaces, I voted for "trail only" but included C2K as a trail race.

#6 milov

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:58 PM

Hey Spoonman!

I do like this poll  :rolleyes:

And just to clarify:

I clicked 'road/trail' so that it might include C2K

My vote for the inclusion of either Dwellingup or the Great Ocean Walk would be equally distributed, but I clicked the Victorian one.

I would like to see AURA administer the title, but the organisation does seem to be more exclusive than inclusive, so I fear that this might not work. A non-partizan individual might have to take control, and I would happily put up my hand for that.

Costs would be minimal, a trophy (buckle?) and a presentation booze up.

Why is there no mention of preferred cheese?

Finally in the 'stakeholder' section there was no option for people who have already completed a grand slam and hope to run another... so I voted 'other'  :D


but I would be happy to follow a consensus
milo

#7 Spud

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:00 PM

View PostMister G, on Feb 5 2008, 01:41 PM, said:

Given half of C2K is on unsealed surfaces, I voted for "trail only" but included C2K as a trail race.

Ditto.

#8 Nate

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:07 PM

Great Idea! I think something like this is needed if Ultra running is going to continue to grow and attract new runners. I'd definitely be keen on completing it.

#9 Boonarga

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:34 PM

I put in 'other' as a trophy and 'free' for cost as I don't see the need for one. There can be no greater trophy than the respect of your peers for completing it.

#10 Paul Every

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:54 PM

View PostBoonarga, on Feb 5 2008, 02:34 PM, said:

I put in 'other' as a trophy and 'free' for cost as I don't see the need for one. There can be no greater trophy than the respect of your peers for completing it.

I agree. However retrospective tins of Milo could be good.

#11 spoonman

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:56 PM

View Postmilo, on Feb 5 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

Finally in the 'stakeholder' section there was no option for people who have already completed a grand slam and hope to run another... so I voted 'other'  :rolleyes:
Sorry, I realised that after I posted  :D

#12 tim

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:02 PM

is this large tin the milo from the shop or are we now bottling Michael?

#13 milov

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:24 PM

its good for what ails you!

#14 tim

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:31 PM

I think I used that line the other night in the pub  :rolleyes:

#15 Brick

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:14 PM

View Postmilo, on Feb 5 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

its good for what ails you!
It might not be so good for you Milov being bottled. :rolleyes:

#16 thomo

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:20 PM

Timeframe 3-6 mths for commonsense and health reasons. I understand this does not always go hand in hand with ultra running/walking.

Runs to include in Grand Slam

It would be great to include East/West Coast events. Otherwise you have a East Coast slam.

Sanctioning/Administration of Grand Slam
  
Other (please post details) Could have an Audax (cycle) type honour system. Audax is a long distance cyclist organisation. http://www.audax.org.au/

Stakeholder Type - I am an...  Interested party/onlooker /  Other former ultra walker

#17 Nate

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:42 PM

View Postthomo, on Feb 5 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

It would be great to include East/West Coast events. Otherwise you have a East Coast slam.

I totally agree - not only because it would mean I wouldn't have to travel for every race but it would also give it a more National feel to it. The only problem that I can see is that the Dwellingup 100 mile race had 3 runners and only 2 of which were locals. There might not be enough local support for this race to continue unless we start to see runners come from over east. I imagine we would probably need at least 10 runners each year for the race to be viable as an official race.

#18 rohan

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 06:18 PM

i doubt this will go down well with many people who contribute to these threads, but i really think that a grand slam should include something from all the sub disciplines of ultra running.

1. a trail event
2. a road event
3. a track event
4. a trailwalker or teams event.

that way you have something that encompasses all the skills. otherwise you really just have the grand slam of long distance trail running.

----------
additionally, can i raise the concept of minimum performance standards?
eg. say doing a 24hr track event could mean doing bugger all, or doing a lot.

if a participant had to finish in the top X% in a slam it could also add to the meaning of the achievement.
----------
re the teams events.
i have seen trailwalker sneered at on these forums, yet they are far and away the biggest participant ultra events in the country. you want to tap into a source of new people for other ultras....?
but even though i have participated in two, crewed for one, and am training for a third i have never seen any promotional material regarding other ultras coming my way through my involvement in TW.

instead of regarding it as 'something else', how about embracing it, acknowledging its success, and even potentially piggybacking off it?

#19 tim

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 06:45 PM

I agree trailwalker seems to get huge number and we need to get these trailwalkers running other similar events through the year.  

But I think you will also find  most ultra runners compete in trailwalker.  i have done 8 so far and will run the Sydney one again this year.

#20 Blue Dog

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 07:01 PM

View Posttim, on Feb 5 2008, 02:45 AM, said:

I agree trailwalker seems to get huge number and we need to get these trailwalkers running other similar events through the year.  

But I think you will also find  most ultra runners compete in trailwalker.  i have done 8 so far and will run the Sydney one again this year.

Just an observation Tim you seem to do all your ultras trailwalker style.

There is always someone holding your hand or giving you a hug.

Perhaps you are a big fat wide-bodied scaredy cat?

Anyway eight trailwalkers is a fine effort. You should be awarded either

1/ a Double-Grand-Slam Trailwalker Award
or
2/ an Octo-Slammer Trailwalker Award.

Edited by Blue Dog, 05 February 2008 - 07:05 PM.


#21 Mister G

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 07:14 PM

View Postrohan, on Feb 5 2008, 07:18 PM, said:

i doubt this will go down well with many people who contribute to these threads, but i really think that a grand slam should include something from all the sub disciplines of ultra running.

1. a trail event
2. a road event
3. a track event
4. a trailwalker or teams event.

No.

View Postrohan, on Feb 5 2008, 07:18 PM, said:

otherwise you really just have the grand slam of long distance trail running.

That's the spirit!

#22 undercover brother

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:09 PM

youre silly spoonman but thats why we like you :rolleyes:
a couple of problems i have with this poll.
1. who the fck voted for trail & road - now thats just silly
2. why are we voting on events that dont even exist yet. the alpine has been run as a fatass and has a compulsory stop this year but maybe not a stop next year?.... scenic rim and great ocean are still in the planning phase as i understand. i couldnt even get a bloody map for the supposed great gold coast walk until this week. this is all very premature.
3. i dont care about the time frame
4. i dont like buckles
5. whatever we select they should be 100mile trail runs - care less about fatass or not and stops or not. the other events can be icons in their own right for their own differences.
6. tim has too many threads about him

#23 Virtual

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:41 PM

management by consensus? bah!

we are not in a democracy. Wait until Rudolf posts 5,000 votes for racewalking and drinking your own pi**.

Don't vote, run.

#24 Whippet Man

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:05 PM

I would think given the size of the ultra population in Australia we will be lucky to sustain all of the 100+ mile races listed. However, there is genuine growth and growing interest so I might be selling the potential short. But talk to any of the current RDs about costs and legal requirements and the need for volunteers and you will find major limiting factors. It is great to have a choice, or if you're Milov, a full calendar. And long live Fatass!

I have done a few ultras but never a Trailwalker. Despite what people say, I'm not big on holding hands.  :rolleyes:

I admit to voting road/trail only to include C2K. This despite the fact I hate running on roads. I know it could well stand alone but it really fits well as the crowning pinnacle to a big year of ultras.

Interest topic, Spoonguy. :D

#25 Brick

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 07:05 AM

View PostWhippet Man, on Feb 5 2008, 11:05 PM, said:

I admit to voting road/trail only to include C2K. This despite the fact I hate running on roads. I know it could well stand alone but it really fits well as the crowning pinnacle to a big year of ultras.

Interest topic, Spoonguy. :rolleyes:
I also voted road & trail to include C2K.
It looks like lots of people did exactly the same 23 votes for Road/Trail at present.

Edited by Brick, 06 February 2008 - 07:06 AM.


#26 Rudolf

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:40 AM

In tennis, grandslam is awarded to a player who wins all 4 tournaments in that year,

it is not awarded to also participants who are eleiminated in qualifying or first rounds ?

So the gradslam should go to a runner who wins all 4 selected 100 milers in that year  :D

Despite sugested idea, I do not support grandslam award for the person who can racewalk all 4 100milers and use only own pi as hydration :rolleyes:

#27 Jogger

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:44 AM

I like the idea of people doing the slam and just receiving the recognition but if they want a buckle (or other designated agreed trophy) then they can pay for it. I am happy to have my name listed only but others like trinkets and baubles.

I am half-interested in the idea of CoolRunning sponsoring it.

#28 rohan

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:45 AM

View PostMister G, on Feb 5 2008, 09:14 AM, said:

No.
That's the spirit!
i was suspicious it might really be about solo LD trailrunning/walking despite having a more all-encompassing title.

but given the american inspiration of the ultra 'grand' slam, this is perhaps appropriate. the yanks are, of course, the folks who have world series baseball, but forget to invite the rest of the world.

#29 tim

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:47 AM

View PostRudolf, on Feb 6 2008, 09:40 AM, said:

I do not support grandslam award for the person who can racewalk all 4 100milers and use only own pi as hydration :rolleyes:

if you can get by just on mathematics for hydration then power to you.

#30 tim

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:49 AM

View Postrohan, on Feb 6 2008, 09:45 AM, said:

i was suspicious it might really be about solo LD trailrunning/walking despite having a more all-encompassing title.

but given the american inspiration of the ultra 'grand' slam, this is perhaps appropriate. the yanks are, of course, the folks who have world series baseball, but forget to invite the rest of the world.

I think you are secretly in love with ultra running.

#31 rohan

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:52 AM

View PostRudolf, on Feb 5 2008, 10:40 PM, said:

So the gradslam should go to a runner who wins all 4 selected 100 milers in that year  :rolleyes:
there could always be that ultimate accolade.

but there can be graded levels of achievement in color of belt buckle/medal/tropy/whatever as per comrades or western states.

ps. silly me. comrades isn't an ultra in the exclusionary sense .... roads.

#32 Brick

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 09:30 AM

Would the belt buckle/shirts/trophy go to the person with the fastest accumulated time from all 4 events?
That would be the best way the best/fastest accumulated time of who did the specified 4 events in one year.

Brick
:rolleyes:

#33 Rudolf

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 09:56 AM

View PostBrick, on Feb 6 2008, 10:30 AM, said:

Would the belt buckle/shirts/trophy go to the person with the fastest accumulated time from all 4 events?
That would be the best way the best/fastest accumulated time of who did the specified 4 events in one year.

Brick
:D

in that case it needs to be 1 hour penalty for each race, when the person holds hands :rolleyes:

#34 Rudolf

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 09:59 AM

View Posttim, on Feb 6 2008, 09:49 AM, said:

I think you are secretly in love with ultra running.

yes it is becoming obvious, that something happened to Rohan.

maybe it is just the realizations there are no sharks on trails, and You cant get flat in trailshoes

#35 spoonman

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 11:35 AM

Okay - 24 hours on, 40+ votes already, buried nicely on the second page, and it's super dooper tuesday somewhere - here is my opinion...
  • Glasshouse QLD - September
  • Great Ocean Walk VIC - October
  • Great North Walk NSW - November
  • Coast to Kosciusko NSW - December
starting officially in 2009

and here's why...

I really wanted to have four different states represented, but there really isn't the ground support in other states to facilitate this.  And by that I don't just mean the number of runners, but the number of shorter runs that future 100 mile participants can use to build to that level.

Coast to Kosci serves as a nice compromise in this regard - it is closer to Canberra (and hence ACT) than either Melbourne or Sydney.

With regard to the Victorian event, as much as I love the Australian Alpine Skyrun (and strongly encourage you all to enter so I can beat you), i've been swayed to the thinking that it is a stage race.

Sure the overnight stop could be dropped in the future, but coming from a solid hiking background (and having experienced sudden violent alpine storms in VIC, NSW and TAS, not to mention the average everyday near zero visibility whiteout conditions) the thought of being out in these remote locations for an entire night and only being able to see a couple of metres with a head torch truly scares me.  It's just far too easy to miss a track turn off because you couldn't see it.  Then of course you realise an hour later and get frustrated so you rush back... only to trip and badly hurt yourself... etc. So I am not in favour of dropping the overnight stop. :D

I also really wanted it to be trail races only.  But then on reflection I realised I wanted this simply to match the USA model.  And frankly I don't think this is a good enough reason.  I mean this is the Australian Ultra Grand Slam, not the USA Offshore Grand Slam.

Coast to Kosci is a truly iconic run - a very Australian run.  Running from the coast of our island country that our cities cling to and we holiday on, to the top of our highest mountain.  It could probably only be more Australian is if it was held on Australia Day, everyone ran holding an Australian flag, and the only food runners were allowed was roos that their support vehicle hit. :rolleyes:

I also like that fact that the runs become progressively harder:
  • Glasshouse is a great standard trail run with a large amount of long flat(ish) fire trails (although the new course with the 2 climbs makes it harder);
  • Great Ocean Walk looks like it will end up being slightly longer than the standard 160 kilometers (whats an extra 20km) and is on continuously undulating terrain that wears you down;
  • Great North Walk is really tough and has some awesome climbs and descents;
  • Coast to Kosci is very long (a full third longer than a 100 mile run), and almost all uphill.
This multiplies the test of endurance that this is - not only do you need to keep getting up for event after event, the levels get harder.

This timeframe also fits in with the reasonably commonly held view that around four months is best to try to undertake this, rather than cramp it in to three, or allow it to strech out to more.  This may require some slight adjustment of some race dates to achieve though.

With regard to it starting officially in 2009, obviously it takes time to agree on and organise these things - especially when registering, fees and awards come into it as it seems people are keen to have.  Also I imagine most people who choose to attempt this would like to plan for and prepar for such an undertaking - rather than simply go out and do it from one race to the next.  Well, I did say most people.


Of course these are just my personal opinions.


Now to get Glasshouse renamed to Great Glasshouse Walk and Coast to Kosci renamed to Great Coast to Kosci Walk so we can get some consistency.  I mean, if we don't, how will we get all the trailwalkers to have a go.   :D

#36 spoonman

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 11:38 AM

Hmm.. better actually put my vote in!  :rolleyes:

#37 spoonman

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 11:52 AM

Forgot to mention...

I also think there should be a 'Last Great Race' style 'award' for doing all the 100 mile+ runs in an entire calendar year, but I don't think think should carry as much ceremony.

#38 Kelvin

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 02:50 PM

The theory is good, but i would think a Grand Slam should be a certain number of established events (4 if you go by things like the Tennis and Golf Grand Slams), and i don't know that we in Australia have these events established enough, i mean we have 30 odd starters in the Glasshouse Miler (which surely has to be in it as it was the beginning of them all), slightly lesser number at Great North Walk 100 Miler (it's been on for 3 years so i suppose is established) and similar numbers at C2K (which has been on officially only the one year but will count as four) so these would logically be the "triple crown" or whatever of Aussie Ultra running, but personally see the title as bit of a w*nk (no not because i haven't done it  :rolleyes: ), simply because it's such a limited number of people we are talking about out of the general running population doing these races.
I'm all for getting more people involved in Ultras and would love it if one day i had to make sure i entered early just so i could get a start (i'm buggered if i want it to come down to having to go into damned lotterys though), but doubt that this will do anything to improve the number of competitors and, as i've said previously about the AURA Point score, personally i don't give a sh*t about trophies given for doing something i'd normally do as i'm way more concerned about earning a trophy by actually winning a race.
If people want a Grand Slam as a goal that's fine and i'm happy for them to do that, but for me i just can't see me changing my schedules for it, however if it does fit in (and certainly doesn't this year - i think most Ultra runners know my goals) one year i'd probably do the races needed as a matter of course and become a "Grand Slammer".
Also i do wonder about the fact these are mainly trail ultras (question whether C2K is more than %20 trail myself), reckon we need some road ultras (back in the early 90's there were races such as Bathhurst 100K and Sydney to Wollongong), which personally i reckon would be great (i'm a so/so trail runner helped by a very flexible right ankle and after a few consecutive trail races am busting to be back on roads usually), but fear the days of public liability insurance may have sounded their death knell, and also wonder why we shouldn't include 24 Hour Track races,
Kelvin
P.S. Have looked 3 times at that incredibly long first sentence and really have given up trying to fix it, pretty sure there are grammar specialists cringing !)

Edited by Kelvin, 06 February 2008 - 02:56 PM.


#39 Jogger

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 03:09 PM

kelvin - nah - I vote for the "100 mile purist perspective" for a change (as in the USA). c2k is out, roads are out, track is out (even though I have run road ultras and even a track ultra). I mean its the sort of rhino-hippo-raffe you get as designed by a committee.

Rohan had a good point, even though like Mr G I'd argue the opposite - is it a 100mile trail slam or is an ultra slam (road, trail track) or bitsa/mongrel or what ? Surely its a 100 mile trail slam hence a 150mile road run would'nt get a guernsey - iconic and good though it may be.

#40 spoonman

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 04:06 PM

View PostJoggerKev, on Feb 6 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

Rohan had a good point, even though like Mr G I'd argue the opposite - is it a 100mile trail slam or is an ultra slam (road, trail track) or bitsa/mongrel or what ? Surely its a 100 mile trail slam hence a 150mile road run would'nt get a guernsey - iconic and good though it may be.
do you mean wouldn't?

If you change the word 'trail' to 'plus' then C2K is back in :rolleyes:

#41 RMC

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 05:11 PM

Just to keep the track runners out there happy there's always an Ultra track slam..

24hr coburg
24hr gold coast
24hr adel
24hr colac (day 1)

All covering at least 100 miles TRACK and you are indeed an ultra track guru. Not sure if anyone's ever done it ?

Edited by RMC, 06 February 2008 - 05:12 PM.


#42 Blue Dog

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 06:51 PM

View PostWhippet Man, on Feb 5 2008, 06:05 AM, said:

I admit to voting road/trail only to include C2K. This despite the fact I hate running on roads. I know it could well stand alone but it really fits well as the crowning pinnacle to a big year of ultras.

Yes, C2K is the reason I too voted trail/ultra. It is an absolute stand-out as the final event of the four, iconic in every (no pun intended) sense of the word, and contains well over 100km of trail / dirt road.

Spoonman's point (in the quote below) about it being the Australian Slam, and not the 'Offshore U.S. Slam', is very valid. Here we have the chance to create something unique, certainly based upon a U.S. model ... but that's where most U.S. input for the Oz Slam should both start and finish. As an Aussie, I'd like to kind of think ours was certainly -

1/ Australian
2/'different' and
3/arguably even 'better' or 'tougher'.

View Postspoonman, on Feb 5 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

Okay - 24 hours on, 40+ votes already, buried nicely on the second page, and it's super dooper tuesday somewhere - here is my opinion...
  • Glasshouse QLD - September
  • Great Ocean Walk VIC - October
  • Great North Walk NSW - November
  • Coast to Kosciusko NSW - December
starting officially in 2009

I also really wanted it to be trail races only.  But then on reflection I realised I wanted this simply to match the USA model.  And frankly I don't think this is a good enough reason.  I mean this is the Australian Ultra Grand Slam, not the USA Offshore Grand Slam.

With regard to it starting officially in 2009, obviously it takes time to agree on and organise these things - especially when registering, fees and awards come into it as it seems people are keen to have.  Also I imagine most people who choose to attempt this would like to plan for and prepar for such an undertaking - rather than simply go out and do it from one race to the next.  Well, I did say most people.

Of course these are just my personal opinions.

Spoonman I'm not convinced it can't happen this year, 2008. Of course it will hinge on Scenic Rim (not one of your inclusions) and we are still waiting for the re-scheduled date to be announced. That's something I'm very interested in, because the original date was one week before this year's WS100, and I was so disappointed that it looked like I would have to miss it.

So that would be four official events for the first time ever.

It also doesn't exclude swapping to the four events you mentioned next year, 2009.

(The U.S. have done similar with Vermont, Old Dominion, and Dominion Memorial.) See bottom of this page.

Given that the majority of voters hope to complete an Aussie Slam, and are happy to cover the costs of same, I would think that the only other requirements would be a web page (Aura or CR), somebody willing to administer the funds (AURA or CR) and somebody who can make a decent buckle / trophy.

There are a few vocal people against such 'trinkets', but to draw a bad analogy, just like serial-killers like to keep ears, fingers & toes etc. in the freezer and newspaper clippings as wallpaper, I'd like to get my buckle/trophy down from the top of the cupboard, dust it off and hold it in my hand whilst I struggle to remember it all in another 30 years or so (god willing).

View PostKelvin, on Feb 5 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

.... I mean we have 30 odd starters in the Glasshouse Miler (which surely has to be in it as it was the beginning of them all), slightly lesser number at Great North Walk 100 Miler (it's been on for 3 years so i suppose is established) and similar numbers at C2K (which has been on officially only the one year but will count as four) so these would logically be the "triple crown" or whatever of Aussie Ultra running, but personally see the title as bit of a w*nk (no not because i haven't done it  :rolleyes: ), simply because it's such a limited number of people we are talking about out of the general running population doing these races.

I'm all for getting more people involved in Ultras and would love it if one day i had to make sure i entered early just so i could get a start (i'm buggered if i want it to come down to having to go into damned lotterys though), but doubt that this will do anything to improve the number of competitors .....

Kelvin we will never ever ever ever get the numbers of runners in ultras in Oz that we see in U.S. events, but as a percentage of the running populace, I imagine in Australia that ultra runners are slightly below the percentile band when compared to the U.S., with the gap closing fast.

Probably the only races in Oz that will ever be 'filled' are GNW100 (due to the RD's stated desire to limit the field to 100 starters ... which I think will occur in the next 3 to 4 years) and C2K, either through logistical reasons or having a limit imposed by the authorites.

Like everyone else, just my own opinions.

Cheers, Blue Dog.  :D

P.S. I think Tim should be awarded a Blue-Ringed Octopus, symbolic of his eight Trailwalkers.

Edited by Blue Dog, 14 January 2009 - 03:11 PM.


#43 Jogger

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 07:11 PM

We buy six foot buckles from here. They do custom buckles so am sure that a few photos of US-trail buckles will give them some ideas.

#44 Rudolf

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 07:31 PM

View PostRMC, on Feb 6 2008, 06:11 PM, said:

Just to keep the track runners out there happy there's always an Ultra track slam..

24hr coburg
24hr gold coast
24hr adel
24hr colac (day 1)

All covering at least 100 miles TRACK and you are indeed an ultra track guru. Not sure if anyone's ever done it ?

Richard I personaly see the track series differently :

6H Coburg
24H Coburg
48H GC/BRI
24H ADE/SYD
6H Moe

accumulated kms as 3 levels:

gold = 800 kms
silver = 700 kms
bronz = 600 kms

#45 spoonman

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 07:41 PM

View PostBlue Dog, on Feb 6 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

Probably the only races in Oz that will ever be 'filled' are GNW100 (due to the RD's stated desire to limit the field to 100 starters ... which I think will occur in the next 3 to 4 years) and C2K, either through logistical reasons or having a limit imposed by the authorites.
I know you meant 100 milers, but Cradle and Bogong to Hotham have been filling (due to permit limits) as do some track runs i think.  Trailwalkers also fill up.  Really the trends of increases in marathon participants, increases in trailwalker participants, and increases in trail ultra participants are likely to continue.  Further evidence is that there have also been many threads recently about people doing their first ultras and more companies are sponsoring events i.e. TNF100.  I'm not sure what my point is.  Actually it is that a Grand Slam may not mean much to many now or in the immediate future, but establishing something more formal sometime soon may give people something to strive for in five or so years time.  Really it can only help the sport grow and isn't that what we all want?

#46 undercover brother

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 08:11 PM

View PostJoggerKev, on Feb 6 2008, 03:09 PM, said:

kelvin - nah - I vote for the "100 mile purist perspective" for a change (as in the USA). c2k is out, roads are out, track is out (even though I have run road ultras and even a track ultra). I mean its the sort of rhino-hippo-raffe you get as designed by a committee.

Rohan had a good point, even though like Mr G I'd argue the opposite - is it a 100mile trail slam or is an ultra slam (road, trail track) or bitsa/mongrel or what ? Surely its a 100 mile trail slam hence a 150mile road run would'nt get a guernsey - iconic and good though it may be.

exactly!
we'll have our own slam kt :rolleyes:
c2k can be the best damn run in the country but if its not a 100 mile trail ultra its not in the slam.

#47 Whippet Man

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 11:40 PM

It is no coincidence that the major supporters of including C2K are those who have completed it (apart from Kelvin who lost me in his post). As a professed trail lover and ardently disliking road and track running I was surprised by how C2K affected me emotionally. Add to that the remoteness and the fair proportion of unsealed surface and it is well removed from feeling like a road race. Most posters have acknowledged the iconic status of C2K yet seem reluctant to include it. The whole idea here was to gauge a consensus so we could write our own rules.

1. GH is a given. The original Aussie 100.

2. GNW is overdistance and includes significant chunks of bitumen but I would never consider that it would not be a certainty.    

3. Either of the newbies, GOW or Scenic Rim. Only time will tell which is the most appropriate.

4. And C2K.

And I like the buckle. When they hand you that buckle you will be glad you ticked that box.

Just my opinion. :rolleyes:

Edited by Whippet Man, 07 February 2008 - 12:05 AM.


#48 undercover brother

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 05:52 AM

View PostWhippet Man, on Feb 6 2008, 11:40 PM, said:

It is no coincidence that the major supporters of including C2K are those who have completed it (apart from Kelvin who lost me in his post).
noone has run scenic rim and great ocean yet and noone has finished alpine yet and we are also voting and expressing opinions on these

As a professed trail lover and ardently disliking road and track running I was surprised by how C2K affected me emotionally.
very nice but so may kepler or gold coast mara or a track event but they shouldnt be in either

Add to that the remoteness and the fair proportion of unsealed surface and it is well removed from feeling like a road race.
just how much of the course is driveable - at how many points can your crew help you?

Most posters have acknowledged the iconic status of C2K yet seem reluctant to include it.
yes as i said it can and may well be the best damn run in the country but why include apples in an orange slam! in fact having it separate to the slam may even increase its iconic status. would we have put sydney-melbourne in a slam? or colac?? very very specials runs but also different. and before u comment no i havent done those either :D

The whole idea here was to gauge a consensus so we could write our own rules.
no its so i can push peoples buttons, stop them from working and divert attention away from the 'tim thread' :rolleyes:

Edited by undercover brother, 07 February 2008 - 05:54 AM.


#49 Rudolf

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 06:52 AM

well C2K is very nice 20km trail run, but appart from that, the support crew with all the mobile kitchen and MASH unit can be there just to reach with stretched arm for the whole first 220kms.
On the track You get a chance only each 400m.
There are also no pacing restriction along C2K and car head light could be used all night etc.
To me C2K does not fit trail criteria at all.

How about :

Scenic Rim Walk QLD - August
Glasshouse Walk QLD - September
Great Ocean Walk VIC - October
Great North Walk NSW - November

unless august will offer something in SA- plenty of hills there, or some desert condition around Alice-Uluru

I said this years ago but will repeat here :

it would be great if some local runners get to organize 100 milers with shorter options with the base in Daylesdorf and using trails towards Ballarat, Bendigo and Baccush Marsh, basicaly it is offering 3 directions each there and back, and with restocking oportunity at the base

Edited by Rudolf, 07 February 2008 - 06:56 AM.


#50 Spud

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 06:56 AM

For the purists it's gotta be trail 100s all the way.
I do believe C2K should be included however, as others have said it is the pinnacle of a hard years running and a fitting way to cap off a slam.

Like Whippet, here's my preferences-

GH100- a given.
GNW100- a given (you haven't run a 100 'till you've run GNW   :rolleyes: )
Scenic Rim or GOW
C2K- a given

Unfortunately I believe the logistics of getting to Dwellingup for most of us will exclude it.
Alpine- stage race, bummer, otherwise a goer.

Not too fussed as to recognition from official authorities etc, but if we are to go that way, well AURA would be the logical organisation to recognise it.

Oh and a buckle too, with an Australian theme forged on there or a combination of race logos...I love the GNW and C2K race logos.