30 replies to this topic

[Woodenlegs]

I am trying to improve my swimming endurance and speed and I am wondering what is the best way to breath out under water, through the mouth or nose? or does it not really make any difference?

[tim]

through both at the same time

[B+]

breathe out through the mouth (nose is optional extra) - blow bubbles - while your face is in the water, then as you roll and turn your head you will be ready to just breathe in your next lung full of air before rolling over and putting your face back in the water to again blow bubbles. Try breathing every third stroke and this will give you a nice relaxed rhythm to your breathing and stroke cycle.

[kathmandu]

The best tip i was ever given was to start breathing out as soon as you put your face under, then just continue a nice steady brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (you know, kinda like a horse does, with you lips flapping), breathing out loudly through the entire 3 strokes before breathing in again. I used to hold my breath for a bit and then quickly exhale, tis heaps more efficient using the horse method. Its also kinda theraputic listening to the noise!

[Plazbot]

I think they key to swim breathing is the blowing not the intake. For me, It seems that I get 'puffed' when I don't blow out enough.

[Ninja]

it does take a bit of practice to get it going smoothly - something I will need to do if I reach my aim of doing a Half IM later this year (most likely Capricorn Half)

[KevinCassidy]

PsychoChicken, on Feb 27 2008, 09:40 AM, said:

The best tip i was ever given was to start breathing out as soon as you put your face under, then just continue a nice steady brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (you know, kinda like a horse does, with you lips flapping), breathing out loudly through the entire 3 strokes before breathing in again. I used to hold my breath for a bit and then quickly exhale, tis heaps more efficient using the horse method. Its also kinda theraputic listening to the noise!

Yes, thoroughly endorse PC's comments. The most efficient method by far

[Teeds]

For me getting enough breath/oxygen has always been a challenge, I think I must have small lungs.

I have been working on my style and it has help with the oxygen in take.

These links may help, or may just add to the confussion.
http://www.svl.ch/crawl/freestyle.html
http://www.swim.ee/v...ample_free.html

[Woodenlegs]

PsychoChicken, on Feb 27 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

The best tip i was ever given was to start breathing out as soon as you put your face under, then just continue a nice steady brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (you know, kinda like a horse does, with you lips flapping), breathing out loudly through the entire 3 strokes before breathing in again. I used to hold my breath for a bit and then quickly exhale, tis heaps more efficient using the horse method. Its also kinda theraputic listening to the noise!

Thanks for the replies. I do breath every third stroke but I almost exclusively breath out through my nose! So I am probably not really emptying my lungs enough. I'll give the flapping lips technique a go. It's just so hard breaking old habits.

[biggers]

B+, on Feb 27 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

Try breathing every third stroke and this will give you a nice relaxed rhythm to your breathing and stroke cycle.

If only I could! For some reason, I just can't breathe on the right, so I tend to alternate between breathing every second stroke and every fourth stroke (always on my left side).

Does anyone else have this issue of only being able to breathe on one side? I'm not really sure why I can't!

[Woodenlegs]

biggers, on Feb 28 2008, 10:27 AM, said:

If only I could! For some reason, I just can't breathe on the right, so I tend to alternate between breathing every second stroke and every fourth stroke (always on my left side).

Does anyone else have this issue of only being able to breathe on one side? I'm not really sure why I can't!

I used to be only able to breath to my right, but after persisting can now bilaterally breath. I did by counting 1,2,3 breath 1,2 ,3 breath I felt a little like Rain Man at first. Having said this when ocean swimming if I get bumped or scared I go back to right side breathing, as it feels more natural.

[wannabe]

biggers, on Feb 28 2008, 09:27 AM, said:

If only I could! For some reason, I just can't breathe on the right, so I tend to alternate between breathing every second stroke and every fourth stroke (always on my left side).

Does anyone else have this issue of only being able to breathe on one side? I'm not really sure why I can't!

I breathe the same as you! I breathe every fourth, then second, then fourth I think. I know it's some kind of pattern and rhythmn, I'm usually thinking about something else when I swim though.

Since I had my kids, something has happened to my balance system. I used to be able to go on a swing in a park for hours, now, after five I'm off and my stomachs turning. I can't watch those scenes in movies where the camera moves around the subjects. Now, also, I can't breathe bilaterally, it makes me dizzy! I can still do my tumble turns, but when I'm swimming a straight K I can get kinda queasy coming into the wall and after I've done the somersault.

I have a swimming background, like 7x6km sessions when I was younger and I only worked out how to breathe when I was 30! I used to breathe in my butterfly, then hold it and breathe out and in when I raised my head for a breathe! No wonder that hurt! I finally realised those drills I did when I was a kid, resting on the step in the pool and you'd breathe to the side then turn your head into the water and "bubble" then turn to the other side and breathe again. I just thought it was some quirky thing. Ah, how dumb do I feel admitting that. That particular drill would be good for practising your breathing though. If you don't have a big enough step in your pool, hold the edge and do it, then you can focus on the breathing.

Wannabe

[cakeboy]

Don't hold your breath; always be breathing in or out. All of the bubbling and brrrrrrrrrrrrr ing tips are good ones. It helps blow away the water from around (and running down) your face, keeping it away from your mouth as you roll into the air and inhale. You rarely suck in any water if you do this, even in rough ocean swims.

[SpartaJen]

biggers, on Feb 28 2008, 10:27 AM, said:

If only I could! For some reason, I just can't breathe on the right, so I tend to alternate between breathing every second stroke and every fourth stroke (always on my left side).

Does anyone else have this issue of only being able to breathe on one side? I'm not really sure why I can't!

Until recently I only ever breathed on my right side. In the last 6 months I have taught myself to breathe to my left so that now I breathe ever third stroke. However I'm not particularly comfortable breathing left & need to work on my technique some more because I feel like I sink a bit when I breath to my left. Perhaps I lift my head a bit. Dunno really.

[Joey74]

Woodenlegs, on Feb 28 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

I used to be only able to breath to my right, but after persisting can now bilaterally breath. I did by counting 1,2,3 breath 1,2 ,3 breath I felt a little like Rain Man at first. Having said this when ocean swimming if I get bumped or scared I go back to right side breathing, as it feels more natural.

I have only ever been able to breath on my right side as well. Much to the disgust of my swimming coach and years and years of squad training. I can breath bilateral but after a while I get dizzy. So I continue to breath only on my right side and when doing lots of swim sessions I have to go and get a massage as I often put my neck and back out with all the twisiting.

So as much as I am at home in the water and can swim 3kms in the pool with no problems I now face a huge problem in Triathlons and swimming in dams. I get panicky. I can't get a stroke going as soon as I put my face in the water my heart starts pounding and I have to pull my face out. So my strongest part of a triathlon is now my weakest and for what reason I don't know. Does/has anyone else experienced this sort of problem? I have to admit that I haven't done any training in the dam so the open water thing is different I know but it didn't seem to worry me as much as it does now.(maybe I'm thinking of it too much now).

[Shankate]

Cakeboy and Psychochicken I was soo interested to read your posts - in all my years of (not tooo bad) swimming, I have NEVER know about the horsey breathing out method. I have always employed a burst of exhalation prior to inhaling, which I do every three strokes.

I have tried the gradual 'brrr' exhalation method of my own accord before, but must've been doing it a little too enthusiastically because I felt like I was running out of breath.

Will definitely try again though, sounds as though it is in fact more efficient? Why is that, though?

[Woodenlegs]

Joey74, on Feb 28 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

So as much as I am at home in the water and can swim 3kms in the pool with no problems I now face a huge problem in Triathlons and swimming in dams. I get panicky. I can't get a stroke going as soon as I put my face in the water my heart starts pounding and I have to pull my face out. So my strongest part of a triathlon is now my weakest and for what reason I don't know. Does/has anyone else experienced this sort of problem? I have to admit that I haven't done any training in the dam so the open water thing is different I know but it didn't seem to worry me as much as it does now.(maybe I'm thinking of it too much now).

I think that you already know the answer just don't think about that dark murky water, better off thinking about breathing and relaxing. On the positive side, if you have your head out of the water at least you will know where you are going., unlike me who could wind up anywhere.

[kathmandu]

Shankate, on Feb 28 2008, 01:37 PM, said:

Cakeboy and Psychochicken I was soo interested to read your posts - in all my years of (not tooo bad) swimming, I have NEVER know about the horsey breathing out method. I have always employed a burst of exhalation prior to inhaling, which I do every three strokes.

I have tried the gradual 'brrr' exhalation method of my own accord before, but must've been doing it a little too enthusiastically because I felt like I was running out of breath.

Will definitely try again though, sounds as though it is in fact more efficient? Why is that, though?

Hey Shankate,
Its more a gently steady brrrrrrrrrrrr, not a BRRR

I was told its efficient for 2 reasons, enables you to inhale more oxygen for the 'in' breathe and therefore provides better oxygen delivery to your muscles. But also it relaxes you so you breathe deeper. Cakeboy or Kevin Cassidy might know more.

I felt as though i wasnt going to get enough air (was originally a 2 stroke breather) but once i got used to the method i can now easily breath every 5th without feeling out of puff, so whatever the theory, it works.

Keep with it.

[Beki]

I must have REALLY sensitive ears as I often get ear ache from the water bubbling past my ears when I go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

Having said that, it's the only way to do it. I can't breathe to one side, only bilaterally. I find that if I only breath on every second stroke I get out of breath because it feels like I'm hyperventilating! I also find (mostly in open water) that I'll swim off in the direction that I am breathing and find it very hard to stay in a straight line....OMG I am so hopeless

[cakeboy]

take a look at the master breathing out from an underwater cam. It will give you a good idea of how the best in the biz does it.



grant hackett

Notice how he breathes out as soon as his face goes back in the water.

Edited by cakeboy, 28 February 2008 - 03:59 PM.

[Hamburglar]

Thanks cakeboy, that's a great clip. How good is he? Notice how he has always got a hand in the water in front of his head. So hard to do. And he spends so much time on his side.

I also note that he only breathes on one side. Good enough for Hackett, good enough for me!

[Beki]

I see too that he manages to hold his arm out in front for a short time before the pull through whereas I have a dreadful problem with "windmill" arms

Trying hard to break that habit but it's dang hard for me to do! Any tips other than doing loads of "catch up" drills???

[miners]

Hamburglar, on Feb 28 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

I also note that he only breathes on one side. Good enough for Hackett, good enough for me!

ah yes, but he CAN breathe both sides

The objective of bi-lateral breathing isn't really about ensuring you're always breathing on odd strokes (3-5-7 etc...), although it's traditionally taught to kids so that they achieve better body balance in the pool and don't get in the habit of twisting their torso in a lazy, repetitious way. It's more about having the ability to adapt to the conditions. For open water, it's invaluable for adapting to cross-winds and choppy conditions, for sighting a buoy, or for dealing with the crowds in a Tri swim - or in Grant's (and other pool-swimmers) case, being able to keep an eye on his competition in the next lane, no matter which side he's on. Much like a basketballer who can shoot with both hands, the top swimmers can breathe on every 2nd stroke on either side without any noticeable loss in power or technique.

That's what you should be aiming for. Getting comfortable so that you can swim without losing power no matter what breathing pattern you use (3,3,3, or even 4,2,5,3,8,4, etc..) That technique can prove invaluable in mass starts in open water conditions.

[Gasher]

miners, on Feb 28 2008, 11:00 PM, said:

ah yes, but he CAN breathe both sides

The objective of bi-lateral breathing isn't really about ensuring you're always breathing on odd strokes (3-5-7 etc...), although it's traditionally taught to kids so that they achieve better body balance in the pool and don't get in the habit of twisting their torso in a lazy, repetitious way. It's more about having the ability to adapt to the conditions. For open water, it's invaluable for adapting to cross-winds and choppy conditions, for sighting a buoy, or for dealing with the crowds in a Tri swim - or in Grant's (and other pool-swimmers) case, being able to keep an eye on his competition in the next lane, no matter which side he's on. Much like a basketballer who can shoot with both hands, the top swimmers can breathe on every 2nd stroke on either side without any noticeable loss in power or technique.

That's what you should be aiming for. Getting comfortable so that you can swim without losing power no matter what breathing pattern you use (3,3,3, or even 4,2,5,3,8,4, etc..) That technique can prove invaluable in mass starts in open water conditions.

G'day Miners

Great sum up on the advantages of being able to breathe on both sides at will.

Interesting to note though, as Hamburglar has mentioned, that in this video that he looks to be ahead of the field & given a choice breathes every 2nd stroke. My problem with the bilateral breathing is you are denying yourself air!!! If you are doing a k or 2 in the pool it might start off ok to breathe every 3rd or 4th stroke but unless you are taking it easy you'll want to breathe more often as time goes on. I find, to keep my hand in, so to speak is to throw in a lap every now & again where I breathe on the 'other' side but still every second stroke. Feels weird & uncomfortable at first but as Miners points out above has big advantages if you can learn to do it.

[miners]

G'day Gasher mate - always love it when you post cause it reminds me I should be out surfing more!

Yeah, it's good to train yourself to get used to breathing on either side comfortably. Often during a tri, you'll find yourself getting crowded on one side, so it's best breathing on the other to prevent you losing your goggles, or worse (being a contact lens wearer, I have one obvious fear in every tri swim! Bit embarrassing not being able to find transition let alone your bike).

If you're also finding it hard to get enough air while lapping in the pool, then it's worth training yourself to sustain each lungful for longer too. A good session is to work yourself up in a pyramid of breathing - such as 3, 5, 7, 9, 9, 7, 5, 3 etc... of 2, 4, 6, 8, 8, 6, 4, 2 if you're still only comfortable on one side. If you're getting crowded on BOTH sides in an open water swim, it's great to feel confident enough to put the head down, stroke hard for 10 and power out of the mess before needing to breath again

[SlowDave]

Joey74, on Feb 28 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

I have only ever been able to breath on my right side as well. Much to the disgust of my swimming coach and years and years of squad training. I can breath bilateral but after a while I get dizzy.

That's interesting. I can breath both sides in the pool (it did take about 4 years to get to that point), but I've also noticed breathing every 3 strokes in an ocean swim makes me dizzy too. I train on both sides but will almost always race breathing on one side, unless weather conditions or sun force me on to the other side.

[Shankate]

Thanks to all those who posted advice about breathing out graduuaaally... - I am very pleased to say that I attempted this technique during my 1800m swim last night and actually got the hang of it!

I felt like I was out of breath using the technique during the first ~400m but then I remembered that I always feel slightly out of breath during the first 400m!
By the end of my session I was doing it without thinking.

Thankyou!!

[Dolphin]

Gasher, on Feb 29 2008, 07:17 AM, said:

My problem with the bilateral breathing is you are denying yourself air!!! If you are doing a k or 2 in the pool it might start off ok to breathe every 3rd or 4th stroke but unless you are taking it easy you'll want to breathe more often as time goes on.

I dunno about that. Breathing is not just about good O2 in and bad CO2 out, it's about the balance of these in your body. Breathe too hard (ie. hyperventilate) and you throw out the balance, build up excessive levels of CO2 which tell you to breathe even harder, but feel out of breath because you're not getting enough O2 into your blood where it counts.

If you're working hard enough to need a deep breath every second stroke then fair enough, but I think that comes down to the individual swimmer a bit. The only time I feel a need to breath more frequently than every fourth stroke is in open water, a sure enough sign that it is nerves at work rather than physiology. If I go every third stroke in the pool, let alone every second, even when doing hard sessions, I don't go faster, I just get tired and dizzy.

I breath less heavily and frequently generally than other people when I'm running with them so I'm not saying that everyone should breathe less often in the water, but I do think it's important to try and match breathing to effort and avoid "panic breathing" which will just slow you down.

Still, it's one thing to know that aerobic capacity is not your limiting factor, getting that Hacket style to exploit it is something else! That underwater footage is pretty awesome.

[run to the hills]

I am a right hand/foot at everything except freestyle swimmimg and looking over my shoulder at traffic on a push bike which is ridiculous as I would see more if I turnd the other way.

Is there a correlation? Anyone else got my defect?

PS Can go bilateral breathing.

[C2SVirgin]

This has been a great thread. I joined a swimming club to improve my swim leg and had been a bilateral breather every 3 strokes. I was told that I wouldnt be getting enough oxygen and needed to breathe one side every 2 strokes which I tried and I did notice an improvement in my breathlessness and dizziness. I could see the advantage of being able to breathe either side though. Unfortuneately though like Joey47 I now get neck problems and am having regular physio and massage so I have to experiment a bit and see what suits me individually as dolphin suggests. I am going to try breathing on the left side but also as miners suggest mix it up so I can be flexible to conditions and hopefully save my neck in the process. Here's to next season for me anyway. . .

[Shankate]

He he as I was swimming tonight and continuously repeating the lap number I was up to (I think it was two by this stage...) I thought to myself: "wow, it's really quiet"...

ANd then I remembered!! I wasn't doing my gradual breathing out thing!! (brrrrrrr....) I was soon back in the swing of things though!

THanks for the breathing advice by the way, I (think) I even managed to keep it up during the swim leg of the tri on Sunday