12 replies to this topic

[poppit]

Hi Everyone

I have been slowly building up my running (yet again) using a program similar to C2 5K along with xtraining. I was frustrated with my lack of improvement in my fitness – it seemed I was getting stronger but my breathing just doesn’t improve much at all. I have experienced this previously when trying to build up fitness.

I had a couple of weeks where my legs felt like lead and I couldn’t run up any kind of incline without puffing out. A few nights ago I couldn’t sleep due to a really tight chest and breathing that didn’t seem to get the air in. Then I remembered being told I had exercise induced asthma (EIA) about 12years ago when I used to run long distances regularly with similar problems. I couldn’t believe I had forgotten this but part of me was sceptical about EIA.

I borrowed a Ventolin inhaler and tried before a few runs and noticed a difference. So on Monday I went to the doctor. I blew into the peak flow thingy and I only got 270 when I should be up around 400. I don’t know what this really means. I have been prescribed Ventolin and Flixotide and will be going for a spirometry test on Friday. I assume this will tell me if Ventolin is really making a difference.

Even though I had some improvement when taking Ventolin prior to a run I didn’t feel my breathing was still quite right.

I have found any cardio based exercise/running extremely frustrating as I don’t seem to improve like others around me.

That feels better now I got that off my chest pardon the pun

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Poppit

[sook54]

Hey Poppit
I used to have exercise induced asthma too, but seem to have largely grown out of it. I still find it creeping up on me when I push too hard. I've kept detailed heartrate records and have figured out that it starts to kick in for me when I'm running over 85% of my max HR (which for me is over 170)(which I only do now in races). Now I know what the signs are so I just back off a tiny bit when I feel it coming on. Might be worth you keeping an eye on it - I've found my pace has improved a lot using low heart-rate training (keeping my HR below 75%), so it might be worth you trying to do more long slow runs for a while till you build up your aerobic fitness more. What does your doctor advise?

[Steve 'The Footman']

Lack of fitness and Asthma have similar symptoms. The symptoms for both are caused by lack of oxygen delivery to the working muscle tissue.

One of the things that differentiates asthma is the difficulty in expiration or breathing out. When the bronchioles are constricted there is a reduction in the exchange of oxygen from air to your lungs. When unfit the reduction is in the exchange of oxygen from the air in your lungs to your bloodstream.

It could be worth doing a blood test as well because anaemia can mimic or trigger asthma symptoms.

[Also Ran]

I had a lot of asthma up to about 17 yo. When I took up running in 2004 (unfit) I'd get a bit of EIA. I was making the classic mistake of going too hard which probably contributed. Now that I'm relatively fit, asthma/wheezing is a non-issue, even when I occasionally run quite hard.

I noticed that you tried taking ventalin before a run (?as a prevention). I may be wrong, but I don't think ventolin has any preventative affect. One side effect that ventalin had on me as a child was a pounding heart beat at rest. Maybe check out the wisdom of vigorous exercise on ventalin.

Good luck. I hope time and increased fitness does the trick.

[Sturgis]

Hi Poppit,

I had breathing difficulties, building up over a period of 2 - 3 months, and thought it might be EIA. My doc checked my iron levels and it turned out that my iron stores were way low (I also had to go and have a chest-xray and and echo, both were normal). I felt puffed just walking up the stairs at work.
Have been on iron supplements for two months and feel heaps better, can run up the stairs now without puffing.

Maybe another avenue to explore? I don't know how low iron affects the results of the "peak flow thingy", but might be good to exclude any issues in that area.

[brizza]

hi poppet,i'm a physio not a doctor but i do have a lot of experience with respiratory conditions,it does sound as if you have exercise induced asthma,flixotide is a preventer and is fine in combination with serevent which is a long lasting bronchodilator and the ventilin will help just proir to a run or other exercise,your exercise tolerance will take a great leap forward on the puffers and you will learn the other triggers such as what is called suspended particulate matter(dust and smoke),with the flxotide your tolerance goes up and you are less sensitive,in context it is better for a while to do all this then you can cut back later as you improve,i get the impression that half of sydney is on puffers,i do the ocean swims and just looking around before the start i see people using them-briz

[poppit]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I believe my iron is good. I eat plenty of red meat and take a multi every day to top up anything i may be lacking. When i was about 17 I was anemic due to a terrible diet and lifestyle . I remember that I couldn't stand up for more than 10min without feeling faint and I passed out at work one day and that led me to the doctors.

I have tried to get my heart rate down to 75% when running but this means walking for me. Last year I took it slow and spent alot of time walking with my running but it didn't seem to make a difference to my fitness.

I'm just having a whinge because I'm frustrated (and I'm a Pom ) at the moment because I love running but it isn't enjoyable at the moment . As long as I stick to it, time will tell if it is EIA or just unfitness.

Poppit

[CantPaceIt]

Hi all,

I'm Marty, this is my first post

I've had asthma since my youth. Everything triggers it, exercise, tobacco smoke, perfumes, plants, dust and the dustmite etc. On top of preventative medication I used to take ventolin 5-20 times a day, which means it wasn't managed well. A few years ago I was put on Seretide (which is both a preventative and a reliever). Within about a month I didn't have to use my ventolin at all. Now I never use it at all, I still keep it in my pocket though.
The idea is to find the right medication that will prevent you using ventolin, or at least minimising it's use. So if the Flixotide doesn't work after a while ask for something else.

poppit, on Apr 15 2008, 02:27 PM, said:

So on Monday I went to the doctor. I blew into the peak flow thingy and I only got 270 when I should be up around 400. I don’t know what this really means. I

As it has been mentioned a symptom of asthma is difficulty expelling oxygen the peak flow test is a measure of this.
Some good points have been made about fitness and running at a lower heart rate. Warming up properly is very important if you have exercise enduced asthma, I'll always walk/jog for at least a km before even an easy run, I won't start till I feel right. One thing i like to do to help control my breathing (unless I'm in a race) is to breath in and out using only my nose as much as possible for the first kilometre. That may mean running very slow, though it will force the diaphragm to work more, I don't know what a doctor would say about it though.

You could also try running at different times of the day and see what effect that has.

Goodluck

marty

[SouthAustralian]

CantPaceIt, on Apr 17 2008, 08:55 PM, said:

Hi all,

I'm Marty, this is my first post

I've had asthma since my youth. Everything triggers it, exercise, tobacco smoke, perfumes, plants, dust and the dustmite etc. On top of preventative medication I used to take ventolin 5-20 times a day, which means it wasn't managed well. A few years ago I was put on Seretide (which is both a preventative and a reliever). Within about a month I didn't have to use my ventolin at all. Now I never use it at all, I still keep it in my pocket though.
The idea is to find the right medication that will prevent you using ventolin, or at least minimising it's use. So if the Flixotide doesn't work after a while ask for something else.

As it has been mentioned a symptom of asthma is difficulty expelling oxygen the peak flow test is a measure of this.
Some good points have been made about fitness and running at a lower heart rate. Warming up properly is very important if you have exercise enduced asthma, I'll always walk/jog for at least a km before even an easy run, I won't start till I feel right. One thing i like to do to help control my breathing (unless I'm in a race) is to breath in and out using only my nose as much as possible for the first kilometre. That may mean running very slow, though it will force the diaphragm to work more, I don't know what a doctor would say about it though.

You could also try running at different times of the day and see what effect that has.

Goodluck

marty

Just wanted to welcome Marty to CR. Mate if this is your first post I look forward to the others.Great stuff!
Welcome, i know that you will enjoy meeting others on the site.
keep posting
Cheers
Frank in SA

Edited by SouthAustralian, 20 April 2008 - 08:59 PM.

[blkbox]

Poppit - my chest related issues have been well documented here (big C at 36 with a significant part of my right lung being removed and I now have residual EIA).

It sounds as if you need to take some ongoing medication rather than just relying on Ventolin pre run. I take 2 inhalers twice a day as well as Ventolin pre exercise - both running and riding - a detailed appointment with your GP should help sort you out - it might take a while to work out the best cocktail of meds that work best for you, as everyone is different.

Start of each run at a slower pace and try to concentrate on keeping your breathing relaxed and controlled. I also find that sudden increases in body temperature play havoc too - so I tend to run with the minimum of clothes on and try to avoid stopping and starting (traffic lights etc) until I have warmed up properly then I find that I can start to increase the pace and intensity.

[rivercat]

Hi poppit,

I just wanted to add my voice to Marty's - I've had asthma all my life, but it's generally pretty quiet unless I cycle or run, and then it's a menace.

I also take Seretide, which is a great asthma drug and generally keeps the monster quiet, but running has been a struggle - 3 mins consecutive used to be my max before the panting started. I've been back to the GP several times and have tried Bricanyl pre-run (with the morning Seretide) with mixed effects, and am currently using Tilade 30 mins before the run (no Seretide), which is a giant pain because I have to get up at 5:20, take it and then go back to bed and wait. Also it's a very strange-feeling drug. Apparently if you can taste it, you never take it again.

BUT by far the best thing I've found is to slow my warm-up and breathe through my nose. I do a good 10-15 mins warmup now, instead of my previous impatient 2 or 3 minutes: a 4 min walk which includes a slight hill, then a 2 min run that I walk down for 4 mins. This appears to do the trick. I also do another walk after my first four minutes before starting on my 'main' run, although I'm hoping to lose that walk.

I'm still taking the Tilade but I think the warm-up and nose-breathing is doing most of the work. I do breathe through my mouth after I'm a few minutes into my main run, particularly out, once my lungs have settled. Keeping your mouth closed feels like drowning when you start, but it slows you down for one thing, and having started a Buteyko course this week (I really want to ditch the Tilade) I'm getting an inkling of why it works. I can now run for more than 20 minutes straight without panting, taking a reliever or collapsing, so hang in there, you will manage it in the end!

[brizza]

hi rivercat,there is good info around on the buteyko method and i have done some research myself and it sounds like a good system but i am worried about the long term effects of reducing the preventer along with the bronchodilators as the studies show a reduction in the use of puffers but the drawback is that there is no reduction in the swelling of the lining of the airways and my feeling is that long term there may be fibrosis and damage,the bronchospasm is controlled but the irritants and triggers are still causing inflamation,good luck i hope it all goes well for you-briz

[Rudolf]

Ventoline is not just something harmless which will allow easier breathing.
It should be used only in extreme situation in my view as long term negative efects of Ventoline are not worht it.

Asthma suggest extreme toxicity of teh body and so it is time for some reconsideration of the nutritional choices and some serious detox protocols.

After effective detox and with change of nutrition the asthma dissapears, but the changes are radical, so not everybody is up to it.