25 replies to this topic

[divinewrite]

Hi all,

I just watched Victoralias at 23 kph, and I'm intrigued. Is he fast? By my stop-watch, his time is around 1:02 (albeit that it's entitled "Interval Training", so I don't think it's race pace).

I have no idea what my own 400m times are, so all I have to compare to are the elite races I've watched (World Champs, Olympics, etc.).

Can you guys give me some perspective? If you're happy to do so, I'd love to see your 400m time. (Even better if you could also list your 10km time.)

Just curious...

BTW, I'll let you know mine, when I finally make it to the track. It won't be pretty though!!!!

Cheers.

[Rudolf]

decades ago my correlation was : 62 sec - 38 min

[Rudolf]

watched the video.

it is Knox athletic track.

I am somehow dissapointed by the biomechanics presented, in my view very poor running posture.

This can partialy explain the injuries.

It looks such a hard labour, not something I would expect from interval training of a distance runner.

The posture was actualy changing during that lap few times, not a good sign

[Easy Tiger]

So far i've got 49.73 and 34.28, i'm not a very good indicator though. That video doesn't look like a time trial effort, i'd guess it was part of an interval session. I agree with Rudolf, his speed and technique changes several times during the rep.

The sub 30.00, 14.30, 8.25 guys that i know, could comfortably do 15x400 off 1min recovery on grass avg at that pace. Hope that helps.

[john stevens]

Paul's are 56s / 28m30;

Di's are 65s / 39m20 - (mine correlates with Rudolf's).

The Filly's is 61s, and she can't make it to 10km. (Stay tuned for the start of the 08/09 track season, when Paul and The Filly will go head to head over 400m. Should be a close result).

[Tiger Boy]

I'm not a great example to use to correlate times with, but I do have recent 400m PB of 58.55, and 10km of 38.16.

[Rudolf]

decades back, I had a bunch of running friends, they could not beat me at 400m, but they easily gave me few minutes at 10 km and about an hour at marathon.

They correlation would be : 64-65 sec vs 33-35 min

Just compare this with Easy Tiger 49 sec vs 34 min

so to run 34 min You need the 400m speed to be 49-65 sec


well how is this helpfull ???

I believe that 400m and 10km are completely nonrelated and the runner aiming for improving 10km, should not get sidetracked into training for improving the 400m PB.

That is completely counterproductive

( I should know, have done it )

Different issue is talking about the ability to complete the training such as 15x400m at certain speed with short recoveries,
providing this not get into anaerobic tolerance session, but this very much like something which is well established :

the Yasso 800 session vs marathon predictor

Edited by Rudolf, 18 April 2008 - 07:33 PM.

[wombatface]

divinewrite, on Apr 18 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

Hi all,

I just watched Victoralias at 23 kph, and I'm intrigued. Is he fast? By my stop-watch, his time is around 1:02 (albeit that it's entitled "Interval Training", so I don't think it's race pace).

It's fast enough if it was part of an interval session; for example, 8 x 400m. Victoralias has run 10.6ish for 100m as a schoolboy, so should still be capable of low 50s for a 400m race at age 43.

I agree with Rudolf about his form. He seemed to be "sitting down" (hips not forward), rather than "running tall".

My best 400 (decades ago) was 62.1, although I rarely raced 400s - they hurt too much! 36:33 for 10k. These days I'd be lucky to run 72 and 44 minutes for 10k.

[divinewrite]

Rudolf, on Apr 18 2008, 07:31 PM, said:

well how is this helpfull ???

Not sure it is, to be honest! Mostly I'm just curious about the 400m speed of other CR members. However, incidentally, I'm also interested in the correlation between short distance and longer distance speed. This is partly (again) just out of interest, and partly because of Noakes' assertion that good sprinters make good longer distance runners.

In other words, all just curiosity and fun!

So keep 'em coming!

Cheers.

[Ron1]

.

Edited by littleaussie, 01 August 2008 - 04:26 PM.

[fitnessfreak]

my 400m pb is 61 atm

[ratdog]

Im a 90 second man, both in the bedroom and on the track. But then again im training for a Half and Marathon. One day ill be trying to spend less time on the track and more time in the bedroom. But these things take time.

10 km PB 47:10

Edited by ratdog, 18 April 2008 - 10:56 PM.

[MrD]

I'm no expert but have too much time on my hands (i'm a teacher and on school holidays!!)

Would like Rudolf to go into more detail about his poor running posture. Would like to see the subject's head up and looking forward towards the destination rather than looking down which he does for the majority of the lap.

It might be just a personal thing but his heel striking gait could not be good for his long term running future, I'd be running on my toes or midfoot.

Edited by MrD, 20 April 2008 - 10:45 PM.

[TehAxe]

400 - 51 (1992)
10K - 41:50 (2008)

[Rudolf]

MrD, on Apr 18 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

Would like Rudolf to go into more detail about his poor running posture.

wombatface already pointed to the main issue - sitting down.

It is about the whole spine position or posture.

The spine needs to be straight up or very very marginaly slightly arched back.
That would get the head up, shoulders back but relaxed down.

All great fast runners have the hips pushed to the front and the back legs is straight doing the proper pushoff.

So it is thye action of trhe back legs which needs to be nearly straight with action coming from the toes, ankles, hams and gluts and the need to have the strong lower back to keep it all up straight above the hips and to transfer the pushoff momentum to the upper body.

There are some great photos form 70's etc with the best finns and americans fighting it to the line at 1500m and 5000m.


The stride lenght is achieved by active phase of the back leg not by striding to the fron too much.

Observe runners, if the back left is just lifted up without being actively straightened all the way, that the runner is sloww and has no chance of becoming elite, that is teh style sometimes advocating for funruners under various nonijury technique, but what is not said is that is always slow.

Even the runners as Busters do not have the ideal action of the back leg.

[Sawadee]

About 58 for 400m!
31.43 for 10km!(76 per 400)!

[akajan]

55 sec 400m, 29:42 for 10k (back in 1983).
I knew the guy who had 29:29 10k but could not break 60 seconds for 400m.

[knassy]

Is that what you are talking about Rudolf? I love that shot.

Edited by knassy, 19 April 2008 - 04:31 PM.

[Rudolf]

Yes exactly, thank You.

Now go to articles about XCOR from Jells Park and see still pic of Buster running uphil, that is nearly as good, but it is uphil, so it forces Buster to run nearly perfect.

Than go and watch the Youtube video from Jells park and watch Buster running on flat, he lifts his back leg significantly bend in knees, there is no pushoffs to speak off. It is quite amazing that with that form he still runs course rocord.

[chookrunner]

If a picture can be poetry Knassy, that is it.

[chookrunner]

I don't want to jump on the "let's kick Victoralias" bandwagon, because my attitude is definately for him to go for it and I would be delighted if he ran anything like a 30 minute 10K., but.....

Looking at the video of Victor running 62 seconds, I cannot believe there is anyway he would have run a 10.6 hundred metres on this earth or any other.

I see a lot of Masters sprinters who were guns in their day, and although they may be creaky and restricted, they still look and run like sprinters.

Tell me Rudolph, does this man look like a sprinter to you ?

[chookrunner]

I hope I'm not being unfair here, but I know it easy to be hand timed and be fooled by inaccuracies or good intentions.Here is a link to the nationals around 20 years ago. A 10.6 would have done pretty wellhttp://www.athletics.com.au/history/aust_tf/tf_m_1982-83.htmI'll try again..http://www.athletics...f_m_1982-83.htm

[Rudolf]

chookrunner, on Apr 20 2008, 09:06 PM, said:

I don't want to jump on the "let's kick Victoralias" bandwagon, because my attitude is definately for him to go for it and I would be delighted if he ran anything like a 30 minute 10K., but.....

Looking at the video of Victor running 62 seconds, I cannot believe there is anyway he would have run a 10.6 hundred metres on this earth or any other.

I see a lot of Masters sprinters who were guns in their day, and although they may be creaky and restricted, they still look and run like sprinters.

Tell me Rudolph, does this man look like a sprinter to you ?

This is not a correct question I guess.

I was a sprinter in my teenage years under 12 secs with extremelly bad start (loosing about 10-15 meters of teh blocks and still winning 100m at highschool races, so my top speed last 60 metres or so must have been equivalent to 10.5 runners or so.

And few years after no sport activitioes at all at Uni I lost it all, lost all muscle power in my legs and when I resumed running it was for marathons and ultras=longbushwalks.

Occasionaly I went to the track and when timing myself I had a problem tio run 18 secs and nearly break my legs and I could never get it back.

Now decades later getting back into running I occasionaly do sprints at masters nights and nearly break legs doing 16-18 secs and 36-40 secs for 200m.

I am not saying I am sprinter now.

Victior is not saying he is sprinter now.

He is giving the 10.6 as a old PB to explain, that he has some fast twitch fibres and has the neuromuscular ability - or potential somewhere there. And although this is not currently showing up or is not trained for in sprints, this fast twitched abilities can be used in endurance training.

This is quite a topic on its own and is difficult concept, I am not confident enough in my ability to explain it, lots of expert are oposing the concept anyway, but there are some athletes using it.

I reckon this fast twitch natural abilities are what makes Buster so good and what makes Kenyeans so good, and I reckon that is also part in Halls marathon performance as I watched his training videos...

While Buster, Keneyans etc would not be able to perform as sprinters because You need the explosive power etc, they have the same fast twich abilities to run very fast, just do not have the strenght to execute at 100m.

[runningunlimited]

haven't run an actual 400, but im 13 and ran 62 for my first 400 in a 800m race

[B+]

So now the videos been deleted?!?!?

Anyway back on topic
400m 63
10k 35.02

Train safe

[Still Building]

Rudolf, on Apr 20 2008, 05:28 AM, said:

This is not a correct question I guess.

I was a sprinter in my teenage years under 12 secs with extremelly bad start (loosing about 10-15 meters of teh blocks and still winning 100m at highschool races, so my top speed last 60 metres or so must have been equivalent to 10.5 runners or so.

Come on Rudolph, no one loses 10-15 metres off the blocks - 5 at the very most and that is stretching it.