29 replies to this topic

[phYx]

Now that I am suffering a cold for the third time this year, I really need some help to try and avoid getting sick so often. This happens every time I push my long run into new territory. I've read some reports on the immune system suffering when you do the longer stuff, but can't find anything about avoiding this... so I am calling upon the CR collective wisdom.

Currently I run around 6 days a week and my long runs are around 3 hours at a very relaxed pace, certainly not pushing it unless I get close to home and feel too good so might pick up the pace over the last km. I figure there must be some nutrients I am missing or need more of to avoid getting sick every couple of months. Or maybe I need to take recovery more seriously.

I don't eat on the run as I've never hit The Wall. Would nutrition during the run help? Are there particular foods I should be eating or avoiding after the run? Should I be taking more rest days? In terms of general muscle recovery I usually feel fine afterwards - a quick stretch plus a drink and I don't feel any different than if I had just walked around the block (which makes me think I don't push myself hard enough, but clearly my immune system thinks otherwise).

So what's going on with my body and how do I stop getting sick all the time?

[Teeds]

Hi phYx,

Well you can rest at ease knowing you are not alone on that one, for me I tend to get head colds during winter after pushing hard during a race or long training run.

No idea how to help though. I follow the old rule, if it is above the head keep training if below the head knock it back.

IT

phYx, on May 25 2008, 10:00 PM, said:

Now that I am suffering a cold for the third time this year, I really need some help to try and avoid getting sick so often. This happens every time I push my long run into new territory. I've read some reports on the immune system suffering when you do the longer stuff, but can't find anything about avoiding this... so I am calling upon the CR collective wisdom.

Currently I run around 6 days a week and my long runs are around 3 hours at a very relaxed pace, certainly not pushing it unless I get close to home and feel too good so might pick up the pace over the last km. I figure there must be some nutrients I am missing or need more of to avoid getting sick every couple of months. Or maybe I need to take recovery more seriously.

I don't eat on the run as I've never hit The Wall. Would nutrition during the run help? Are there particular foods I should be eating or avoiding after the run? Should I be taking more rest days? In terms of general muscle recovery I usually feel fine afterwards - a quick stretch plus a drink and I don't feel any different than if I had just walked around the block (which makes me think I don't push myself hard enough, but clearly my immune system thinks otherwise).

So what's going on with my body and how do I stop getting sick all the time?

[phYx]

Thanks Teeds, I know it's ok to run with a headcold, but I'd like to not get sick at all! I used to only get a cold once a year but this is the 3rd cold so far in 5 months! There must be a way to avoid this

[orlando]

This Australian study showed a reduction in the number of respiratory infections over winter when elite runners were given a probiotic supplement. It's only a very small study(20 subjects) but otherwise seems scientifically rigorous in terms of study design(placebo-controlled, double-blinded, cross-over). There might be something in it.

[sunny1]

What is your body fat % like? I seem to remember reading information about very low body fat % having an affect on the immune system (and knowing some swimmers/runners in that situation who readily surcumed to infections through winther).

Don't have links/evidence available now, but will post if/when I find some.

If I am wrong, please correct me someone.

[sunny1]

"In fact, athletes are often at a higher risk of developing colds and upper respiratory tract infections. It has been found that the combination of large volumes of training and extremely low body fat levels can increase the tendency to pick up a cold. Moderate exercise is actually good for our immune system but athletes in full time training can experience extra stress on all body systems, including the immune system. " http://www.lisasutherland.com/Lisa%20Sutherland's%20Latest%20News/latestnews.htm


"It is probably not sensible for men to let their body fat levels go below about 5% and for women below about 10-15%. There’s good evidence that the immune system is impaired when body fat stores are too low (1)." http://www.pponline....ing-performance

"ROME -- Trained runners who severely limit the amount of fat in their diets may be suppressing their immune system and increasing their susceptibility to infections and inflammation, a University at Buffalo study has shown.

In findings presented here today (May 22, 1999) at the fourth International Society for Exercise and Immunology Symposium, lead author Jaya T. Venkatraman, Ph.D., reported that running 40 miles per week on a diet composed of approximately 17 percent fat compromised the runners' immune response.

The medium and high-fat diets, composed of approximately 32 and 41 percent fat respectively, left the immune system intact, and enhanced certain components, the findings showed. " http://www.buffalo.edu/news/2753

This is the result of a very quick google search. Of course, I may be way off track, because body fat maynot be the issue!!

Sunny1
(trying to be helpful)
Edit: should have made those web addresses links, sorry!

Edited by sunny1, 26 May 2008 - 10:41 AM.

[luckyguy]

Thanks for that research Sunny - very informative. So it appears that we 'athletes' are more susceptible to colds and more so when we're stressing our bodies out to the max. I wonder whether being fitter and stronger, we fight colds off quicker and suffer less severely than those who don't exercise?

I noticed that once I stopped travelling by public transport (trains), that I reduced my number of colds down from about four a year to one.

[phYx]

Sunny, I was reading similar things about body fat too. I got my body fat checked just a few weeks ago and although I can't actually remember the results, it was somewhere between 20 and 25% so there's no shortage of that! But perhaps diet is a clue... most of my fat intake comes from chocolate rather than the healthy fats hehe

Orlando thanks for that. I will find some probiotic pills and do my own experiment with them.

I'm really interested to see if others have similar experiences of getting sick whenever they increase training.

[tim]

I was thinking you could start with your post run food. Go to an old school health food shop (fruit and veg) and at the moment they have post run supplements on special (mandarins). Get a few kg and then after a run sit in front of a big bowl peel and eat peel and eat until you are feeling good. they will hydrate you and fill you full of vitaminy goodness.

and get plenty of sleep.

[sunny1]

luckyguy, on May 26 2008, 10:35 AM, said:

Thanks for that research Sunny - very informative. So it appears that we 'athletes' are more susceptible to colds and more so when we're stressing our bodies out to the max. I wonder whether being fitter and stronger, we fight colds off quicker and suffer less severely than those who don't exercise?

I noticed that once I stopped travelling by public transport (trains), that I reduced my number of colds down from about four a year to one.

I agree - the articles that I listed above mention body fat % for example for males of 5% or lower.

Personally, I haven't had cold or flus for about 3 years - the occasional sore throat that seems to disappear after a day.

[sunny1]

phYx, on May 26 2008, 10:35 AM, said:

I got my body fat checked just a few weeks ago and although I can't actually remember the results, it was somewhere between 20 and 25% so there's no shortage of that! But perhaps diet is a clue... most of my fat intake comes from chocolate rather than the healthy fats hehe

He, he ... yup ... body fat % is not the problem!!

Hmmm - some healthy fats might help, although I have heard that chocolate (especially dark) is a good antioxidant!

Regarding other's experiences - I'm not up to the kms or hours that you are doing, but the only thing that changes when I increase kms is a little renewed chaffing or bruised toenails, which subside when I get used to the distance again!

[Bellthorpe]

tim, on May 26 2008, 11:25 AM, said:

I was thinking you could start with your post run food. Go to an old school health food shop (fruit and veg) and at the moment they have post run supplements on special (mandarins). Get a few kg and then after a run sit in front of a big bowl peel and eat peel and eat until you are feeling good. they will hydrate you and fill you full of vitaminy goodness.

Sage advice. Could not agree more.

[southy]

I seemed to become a lot healthier when I started eating more healthy fats - especially nuts.
And I always have some carbohs immediately after each training session , as soon as I finish, some juice or gatorade, chocolate milk, hot chocolate (winter). That seems to help a lot to get my blood sugar levels back up and keep me healthy.
And finally - yes, wrap up good after each session -stay warm. Put on a track suit or jumper. Don't let yourself get chilled.
These are the things I do to stay healthy and also I harp on these issues (especially winter time) to the youngsters I coach.

[emjay]

Bellthorpe, on May 26 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

Sage advice. Could not agree more.

sage essential oil can be very useful to athletes, as it is good for treating arthritic conditions and muscular aches and pains. try adding a couple of drops to massage oil or a nice relaxing bath.

[phYx]

tim, on May 26 2008, 11:25 AM, said:

I was thinking you could start with your post run food. Go to an old school health food shop (fruit and veg) and at the moment they have post run supplements on special (mandarins). Get a few kg and then after a run sit in front of a big bowl peel and eat peel and eat until you are feeling good. they will hydrate you and fill you full of vitaminy goodness.

and get plenty of sleep.

Ah so simple I had not thought of it! I usually have to force myself to eat fruit. Especially citrus. It's messy. You have to wash your hands after. And the local fruit shop is not open Sunday night which is the only time of the week I think to buy food. And supermarket fruit tastes gross. Maybe I will spend my lunch time shopping at the fruit shop today.

I think I have vegetables and protein well covered in my diet. Not 100% convinced that mandarins are the solution (because I'm not their biggest fan) but it's a good place to start before I lash out on magic pills.

[tim]

phYx, on May 26 2008, 12:26 PM, said:

Not 100% convinced that mandarins are the solution (because I'm not their biggest fan) but it's a good place to start before I lash out on magic pills.

any sweet juicy fruit will do.

I like what is in season cause it is cheep.

enjoy the mess. and if you get into it you will really enjoy summer and mangos.

[nutritionpro]

Eating the right amounts of food and the right types of food make a huge difference to your body not becoming ill frequently.
After a long run you should always have a good meal of carbs and protein and when I say Carbs it shouldnt be just fruit but rice, pasta, breads etc. In the best form possible such as brown rice, wholemeal pasta or breads. Alternatively a recovery protein/carb drink will give you the adequate nutrition to replenish what your body has just used.
If your doing this already than you may find that your body requires a boost to its immune system and id recommend any kind of product that contains Astragalus as it is great for prevention of colds and recovery of colds.

[tim]

is there a whole food that does not contain carbs and protein?

[Bellthorpe]

Prevention of colds, eh? Should you not have said 'rumoured to', or 'allegedly'?

It's not proven.

As for carbs and stuff after a run, I'm with Tim. Fruit is perfect, with lots of water of course. And I can't see why anyone would take a manufactured beverage rather than just a piece of fruit or two.

[phYx]

RLG, on May 26 2008, 01:33 PM, said:

After a long run you should always have a good meal of carbs and protein and when I say Carbs it shouldnt be just fruit but rice, pasta, breads etc. In the best form possible such as brown rice, wholemeal pasta or breads. Alternatively a recovery protein/carb drink will give you the adequate nutrition to replenish what your body has just used.

I recently went through a phase of having a protein shake after a run, although I am really not into fake foods like that. I didn't notice any difference. I am not convinced the contents of a protein/carb drink is going to replace nutrition lost in a run. I like the fruit thing - I think that is more likely to improve immunity to colds. I have just worked out that I have been sick for nearly a third of the year so far and it's certainly not due to lack of protein or carbs. There must be nutrients missing.

As for the carbs + protein for recovery, sometimes I like a piece of toast with peanut butter and honey after a long run. I am thinking about doing that regularly to see if I notice any difference. But I think that may improve muscle recovery more than anything, and currently that isn't an issue. Perhaps I'll trial this fruit biz first.

btw just got back from the shop and bought a bunch of mandarins. I looked for other juicey fruit I might like and found some kiwi fruit. Had one after lunch. I had forgotten the goodness feeling of a nice kiwi fruit. Hopefully I will be organised enough to buy fruit more often.

[nutritionpro]

Bellthorpe, on May 26 2008, 01:52 PM, said:

Prevention of colds, eh? Should you not have said 'rumoured to', or 'allegedly'?

It's not proven.

As for carbs and stuff after a run, I'm with Tim. Fruit is perfect, with lots of water of course. And I can't see why anyone would take a manufactured beverage rather than just a piece of fruit or two.

I didnt say 'rumoured to' or 'allegedly' as it has been proven to aid in boosting the immune system and in the recovery from illness.

[JustinS007]

phYx, on May 25 2008, 10:00 PM, said:

So what's going on with my body and how do I stop getting sick all the time?

Have you got young children?

At this time of year, and generally also at the end of Spring our 5yo comes home every second week with who-knows-what. When you are their primary source of care it's hard to avoid getting sick also.

However, we do take a daily multivitamin that has a lot of B group vitamins and Vitamin C in it (Natures Way). Shaz also uses this shockingly bad tasting stuff called "Gregory's Immune Booster Triplex" which she reckons helps ward off nasty bugs when she is feeling a bit run down.

I doubt there is anything really wrong with you. Hopefully it's just that we are in germ season and even the best defences can't fight them all off when they're worked into a frenzy and are flooding the barricade!

As for eating when running. I'm not sure it will stop you getting sick, but it might make you feel a bit better and run a bit faster when you do your long runs. I would recommend eating within 1 hour of finishing a long run trying to replace some of the carbs lost and including a bit of protein. Works for me anyway.

And Tim, I think "butter" would be classified as a whole food? If so, it's 100% fat. Not carbs or protein there! Maybe I should get myself some?

J.

[Bellthorpe]

nutritionpro, on May 26 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

I didnt say 'rumoured to' or 'allegedly' as it has been proven to aid in boosting the immune system and in the recovery from illness.

Would you care to cite some research, in an authoritative peer-reviewed publication, that 'proves' this?

Thanks.

[phYx]

JustinS007, on May 26 2008, 03:16 PM, said:

Have you got young children?

No... BUT I do teach kids in the evenings, although in the past their germs have never affected me. Hmm things are starting to click... Lack of sleep, teaching sick kids, rarely eating fruit, putting mental pressure on myself to run certain distances each week at stupid o'clock in the morning... It's probably all inter-related and it never occured to me til now.

[Olmy]

JustinS007, on May 26 2008, 03:16 PM, said:

Have you got young children?

At this time of year, and generally also at the end of Spring our 5yo comes home every second week with who-knows-what. When you are their primary source of care it's hard to avoid getting sick also.

I agree. I have a 4 and 2 YO. It seems that we are all sick all winter. Someone gets a cold/cough/flu, then the rest fall one by one. Once the last starts to clear up someone else catches something else and we go back through it all. Makes for long winters!!

[JustinS007]

phYx, on May 26 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

No... BUT I do teach kids in the evenings, although in the past their germs have never affected me. Hmm things are starting to click... Lack of sleep, teaching sick kids, rarely eating fruit, putting mental pressure on myself to run certain distances each week at stupid o'clock in the morning... It's probably all inter-related and it never occured to me til now.

It is 'rumoured to', or 'allegedly' likely that stress weakens the body's immune systems. And being hard on yourself probably only makes it worse.

I do NOT care to cite some research, in an authoritative peer-reviewed publication, that 'proves' this? Simply because I don't have any

J.

[tim]

JustinS007, on May 26 2008, 03:16 PM, said:

And Tim, I think "butter" would be classified as a whole food? If so, it's 100% fat. Not carbs or protein there! Maybe I should get myself some?

butter comes from milk.

[littleblackpug]

Do you touch your face or rub your eyes often, either consciously or subconsciously?

This transfers germs more easily apparently (no research to cite ) my Mum use to always tell my brother and I this....he gets sick with colds and flu every month in winter, and I never get anything other than hay fever, but my brother is ALWAYS rubbing his eyes and stuff, but then again he also doesn't have vegan super powers like I do

I work in a stuffy office and have had sick people coughing on me for 3 weeks now, I use "Aqium" hand gel to clean my hands after every person, so there might be something in that too. You can buy the gel at the chemist.....use it when you are teaching perhaps to get rid of kid-germs on your hands.

[Bellthorpe]

Nooooooooooooo! Don't do it!

Aqium is anti-bacterial. The increasing use of such agents in modern houses, especially those with children, is having a negative effect on the body's ability to fight bacteria with its own defences.

Have a read of this ...

[littleblackpug]

Yes I have heard the too clean theory, but used appropriately, not excessively.......and in my case particularly when handling body sectretions