33 replies to this topic

[Sunset]

I bought a wind-trainer. I tried it this morning for the first time (raining outside) and I managed to do 28 minutes (240 cals) on it which I was pretty happy with considering how incredibly boring it is.

What I am wondering is how a windtrainer work-out compares to road cycling? My normal road course is about 26.5km (takes a bit over an hour) and burns about 450 cals.

I assume a wind-trainer session would be more intense (constant and no coasting down hills for example) and so maybe I can spend less time on the wind-trainer? Or should I just go by how many calories I burn?

[undercover brother]

guess in the end it depends more on how hard you push yourself.
can be easier to unknowingly push yourself out and about with other cyclists.
all this aside, i always assumed road was harder simply because it wasnt constant.
ie. the running equivalent of doing a hilly run instead a flat run except i guess its a bit easier to 'coast' on a bike
youll burn more on the ups than is counteracted by the loss on the downs.
also u ont get the 'core' workout on the windtrainer.
but at least u dont fall off or get hit by a car.

Edited by undercover brother, 30 May 2008 - 09:58 AM.

[Shuffla]

Sunset, on May 30 2008, 09:39 AM, said:

I assume a wind-trainer session would be more intense (constant and no coasting down hills for example) and so maybe I can spend less time on the wind-trainer?

Correct. WT is a far more intense session if you do it correctly. There is no coasting - you pedal 100% of the time. I've been lucky enough to pick up a Computrainer recently and the two rides that I have done were intense - and they weren't even structured. The 30km I did last night had my average HR at 145 (max 163). I need to ride a road race to get my average above that as it just doesn't happen in regular road rides. I can get nailed in a road training session (with a bunch of A/B grade cyclists and handy triathletes) and only average 130-140 HR.

For me, a WT session is at least 150% harder than a road ride. Therefore, an hour on the trainer is equal to 1:30 on the road. Obviously that is a rule of thumb and depends on the type of session you have planned.

All that being said, I'd prefer to be out in the sun riding my bike. However the Computrainer certainly relieves the normal bordem associated with trainers.

[Rell]

I did a lot of training in the winter last year (training for the Around the Bay in a Day – Melb) on the mag trainer instead of out on the road (although still got 1-2 road cycle’s a week) and I found it really good as I knew that no matter what the weather I would always have the option to hope on the bike. I did notice though that for me I found it was a better core workout on the road as I get in and out of the seat sometimes and also the different wind and conditions makes a big difference. However, indoors I needed my fan on in front of me, my heartrate did stay at a more consistent higher rate, and didn’t need as many layers on that’s for sure! So there are advantages in both I think, and it is always handy to have it there on those cold and dark wintery mornings with lots of rain!

[SpartaJen]

I don't find the windtrainer boring at all - when its set up in front of the telly

One thing I find with the windtrainer is that its easy to let my cadence slip if I'm watching the tv a bit too intently & not paying attention to what I'm doing.

Why not do an interval session? You'll burn way more calories than with just a steady state ride. And it breaks up the time & makes the session go faster.

[Danny]

Hi Sunset - I have read papers that argue both sides of the argument pretty persuasively so I now just try to keep my wind trainer exercises interesting - get some Spinervals DVDs: your riding will be much more interesting and they are a really great way to maximise your windtraining time.

Some good ones to look out for are:

* Spinervals 2.0 Time Trial (60min of drills and tempo efforts)
* Spinervals Mental Toughness (90mins of tempo efforts)
* Spinervals Time Saver - 3 x 30min workouts (a Time Trial, a power builder and a technique) this one is great value
* Spinervals Tough Love - a 3hr killer

I have a few others but these are my favourites!!

Cheers,

Danny

Edited by Danny, 30 May 2008 - 09:22 PM.

[Danny]

I got mine from here: http://www.everestsports.com.au/prodmainb....;imageField.y=9

[Jason M]

Danny, on May 30 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

Hi Sunset - I have read papers that argue both sides of the argument pretty persuasively so I now just try to keep my wind trainer exercises interesting - get some Spinervals DVDs: your riding will be much more interesting and they are a really great way to maximise your windtraining time.

Some good ones to look out for are:

* Spinervals 2.0 Time Trial (60min of drills and tempo efforts)
* Spinervals Mental Toughness (90mins of tempo efforts)
* Spinervals Time Saver - 3 x 30min workouts (a Time Trial, a power builder and a technique) this one is great value
* Spinervals Tough Love - a 3hr killer

I have a few others but these are my favourites!!

Cheers,

Danny

For an absolute killer, try out the Spinervals HAVE MERCY. It is 2 hours of the hard intervals compiled from the other workouts. It has seen be revisit my lunch on a number of occasions.

As far as how does the windtrainer compare to road cycling I apply the following rules:
Steady state or endurance work is 75% of time on the trainer. That is 3 hr on the trainer is equivalent to 4 hours on the road. Taking into account the lack of coasting, downhills etc.
Interval work it is about the same, except usually people have a slightly lower heart rate on the trainer (5-10bpm) for equivalent power outputs and feelings of perceived exertion.

[Peterhorse]

Hi Sunset
i'm fan of the wind trainer for it's convenience and time saving benefits - can do it when the kids are here, inside if it's cold, in front of the telly, in a warm room if you want to heat acclimitise etc. it may be flat but you have all the variable to simulate things - the gears as per normal, change the resistiance setting if oyu have one, get a cadence meter on it to measure and vary the leg turnover etc. i only have 2 spinervals DVDs and used them only a few times but they are really good. you'll find coach Troy quite tolerable, but the session not so - they are hard. even without them i find the ipod great - use the up beat songs for little intervals or surges etc - there's songs i hate normally that are great to ride to.
no need for boredom with all that!
have fun with it
PH

p.s. the longest sesion i've done so far is 1hr so can't comment on 2 or 3 hrs on it.... that would be really interesting!

[fatfawnpug]

If your going to do lots of wind trainer sessions you need to have at least a heart rate monitor and have a pre planned session e.g. intervals. Otherwise you just get bored and uncomfortable. Well I do anyway.

I can strongly suggest the spinervals DVDs also. Coach Troy is cool

I don't think its good to get into the habit of replacing to many road sessions with wind trainer sessions. I think allot of people underestimate how much technique plays a part in cycling performance. I agree with UCB in that you don't get a 'core' work out on the wind trainer.

FFP

[Rudolf]

thjere is a big difference between running and cycling on a hilly course.

Runner is spending energy on a downhill and can spend quite a lot of energy on a downhil if running fast or with high cadence, and also if the decline is too steep, the muscles work hard in breaking (quads) and also stabilizing muscles with each step.

On bike You get down for freee.

There was a cyclist, who would turn off his bike comp with any downhill or with any backwind and accumulate only active kms on uphils and in headwinds.

While his teammates would proundly write 250 kms training sessions in their diaries, he would write 70-100kms in his diary. He was the one from the whole team who made it to TdF as pro (his son is currently riding Giro).


Home training on windtrainer - some cyclist prefere to watch old videos from stages of TdF and they chase Lance or Ulrich on the slopes of Alps, I use to watch Pantani when doing home sessions.

[Danny]

staypuff, on May 31 2008, 09:52 AM, said:

when i was trianing for porrtsea and had an achilles injury we supplemented my running with windtrainer to keep my endurnace up i did 4 hour sessions on the bike riding hills and dale once i got into it i found i didnt really take notice of the time but then i have been known to run for that length of time so i guess im used to it

Now that's endurance!

[B+]

Jason M, on May 30 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

For an absolute killer, try out the Spinervals HAVE MERCY. It is 2 hours of the hard intervals compiled from the other workouts. It has seen be revisit my lunch on a number of occasions.

As far as how does the windtrainer compare to road cycling I apply the following rules:
Steady state or endurance work is 75% of time on the trainer. That is 3 hr on the trainer is equivalent to 4 hours on the road. Taking into account the lack of coasting, downhills etc.
Interval work it is about the same, except usually people have a slightly lower heart rate on the trainer (5-10bpm) for equivalent power outputs and feelings of perceived exertion.

I agree with Jason to a point on this, his estimates are pretty good as a rule.
The 75% rule only applies if you are working at monitored h/r and cadence as it is way to easy to let both slip and just cruise through the hometrainer session. SO pre planning it or else it is not even worth the effort.
I have rolled through these at 85bpm and sat at 140bpm when working properly.
Heat is a factor and so is bad pedalling technique so be awae of both.

As for boredom and length of sessions it all depends on your goal. When training for busselton Ironman in 05 I spent every session for 15 weeks on the ergo due to not wanting to train in the dark on my own and wanting to work at specific heart rates and cadence which was too hard to do in the dark while also watching for potholes etc. week days were 2hr sessions and Satruday mornings were 5hr sessions starting at 4.30am. Didn't give me a pb bike split but did help to get a pb run split and overall time.
The key was all sessions were planned and structured so no wastage of effort which can happen on both the road and hometrainer if you don't plan ahead.

Rudolf come ride downhills with me and we will see how little costing is done on a downhill if the desire is there.

Train safe

[NvrGiveUp]

staypuff, on May 31 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

would love to d an ironman one day but the bike hold me back i cant se anything once i go over 20km per hour and i have trouble finding people willing to ride with me confidnet enough to look after me and my bike as well as their own

are u grinding your way through this?

U might be in the wrong gear if you are struggling with 20kph. Try dropping a gear or two and focusing on maintainig a decent cadence. That should get ur speed up.


To sunset; Like others have said: WT are awesome if done correctly. They can seriously bring the pain as there is no coasting.

There is discussion/debate over which WT are more 'realistic' (ie simulate road riding better), but i dont think thats worth the worry.

[Sunset]

Woo-hoo - I managed 37 minutes this morning and a mammoth sweat. I think I'll need to set up a pedestal fan in front of me. I used my iPod and did interval type work during the chorus, etc.

Was good for a little work-out before heading off to work as outside it was pouring with rain.

[TynoMite]

staypuff, on May 31 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

thanks danny
i cant se anything once i go over 20km per hour

As in you can't process what's coming at you quick enough or you just can't see well enough?
I'm not sure what you mean there?

[TynoMite]

staypuff, on Jun 2 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

im vision impaired so i actually cant see lol. but i am good at processing things once i get used to it im ok

So, if you can gradually build up speed, you might be able to see "better" as you go faster?
I'm amazed you can get around at 20km/h

[youngrunner]

I've posted this before on here, but its good so i'll do it again. The spinervals website posts a free weekly structued WT session. It can be found here

Basically it tells you how long to ride, in what gear, how hard, etc. Generally the sessions are about 45min which is pretty good and you can just do it twice if you're a sucker for punishment. As you build up your collection you can also lift bits of one program and another and build your own.

Hope it helps

Jimmy

[miners]

Sunset, on Jun 2 2008, 01:56 PM, said:

Woo-hoo - I managed 37 minutes this morning and a mammoth sweat. I think I'll need to set up a pedestal fan in front of me. I used my iPod and did interval type work during the chorus, etc.

Sunset, definitely set up a fan or have other good ventilation when you're training. Even in the middle of winter (yes even Brissy ones) you can over-heat. I've learnt from experience never to over-dress, have back-up water and always have cross-ventilation. I greyed out once at the end of a set, which doesn't sound like much - people fall off bikes all the time. But imagine what damage you could do to your knees/ankles etc.. if you passed out while clipped in to a set of pedals that won't fall with you ...

can't make claims on ratios of benefit from one to the other. But when in training mode, I find most on-road sessions need to be at least 90-120 minutes in length to get anything out of them (unless interval training). Whereas 45 minutes is usually more than enough on the trainer. 90 minutes has been my max.

Rooster was regularly punching out 4.5 - 5.5 hour weekly sessions on the trainer during his IM lead-up if his claims are to be believed. Which I do - cause he's a good bloke

[Sunset]

youngrunner, on Jun 2 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

I've posted this before on here, but its good so i'll do it again. The spinervals website posts a free weekly structued WT session. It can be found here

Basically it tells you how long to ride, in what gear, how hard, etc. Generally the sessions are about 45min which is pretty good and you can just do it twice if you're a sucker for punishment. As you build up your collection you can also lift bits of one program and another and build your own.

Hope it helps

Jimmy

Thanks for that... but as I'm still a cyclist newb, I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting what it means.

this weeks spinervals workout said:

* Warm up 5 minutes easy
* 3x30 sec 53x15 @ 30 sr (Seconds Rest = easy spin)
* 2 min easy spin
* 8 x 20 sec superspin 42x15 (rpm > 110+) @ 10 sr
* 2 min easy spin
* Repeat 6 times (6 killer minutes)
o 1 min 53x15, then 1 min easy
o 1 min 53x12, then 1 min easy
o 1 min 53x18, then 1 min easy
o 1 min 53x15, then 1 min easy
o 1 min 53x12, then 1 min easy
o 1 min 53x18
* 2 min easy spin
* Repeat this for 4 minutes
o 10 sec 53x15 tempo effort, then
o 10 sec easy, soft pedal
* 2 min easy spin
* Repeat 4 times
o 20 sec seated 53x12 build effort increasing, then
o 10 sec out of saddle sprint in same gear, then
o 30 sec easy, recovery spin
* cooldown 5-10 minutes

what do the bolded sections mean for example?

I assume that the 53 x # relates to gears? But what gears?

[miners]

53 and 42 are your big ring and small ring (the numbers represent the number of teeth on the chainring)

The cassette on the back of your bike will have anything from say 11-21 tooth rings, to 12-27. There are a large number of combinations between (i.e. 11-23, 12-25), also depending on whether you have 9spd or 10spd gearing.

A 53 x 15 set means you're in the big ring and perhaps about mid-way between your rear cluster. And therefore, 52 x 12 (or 11) means get in your toughest gear. 42 x 21 means you'll be spinning damn quick

[gav1866]

Hey Sunset

Have also bought a trainer for winter, its awsome! nice not to have to ride in total darkness.
As the other guys have suggested Coach Troy (spinervals) is a good way to not get distracted.

Also I found this site with a couple of suggestions on training programs - http://www.training4cyclists.com/effective...indoor-cycling/ easy to follow.

[hurting]

Hi...I am a big fan of the windtrainer...i enjoy the roads but 1) I try to minimise my time there for safety reasons 2) I reckon I can get a great workout on it.

I too find the set programs too hard to follow....but I have no problem with them....I pretty much restrict myself to two types of sessions.
1..is a recovery...any where from 30mins to 2 hours...so easy pace, I don't use HR monitor but go on perceived effort, but I would think 50% of max.
2..is just a workout...don't have any fancier name for it....between 1 to 2 hours...always 10min warm up & 10 min warm down (about same pace as recovery ride above) and in between might be a constant effort at 75% of max, or I might do 10-15mins at 80-85% of max then 5 min rest, then repeat say 3 - 4 times. BUT DECIDE WHAT I AM DOING BEFORE START.

I have the setup in my garage, open the door, turn on the radio and go....never get bored....I measure my perceived HR by talking to the dog or singing to work out on my "conversation" monitor where I am!

Not very scientific but works for me...sure the DVD & this Troy bloke is also good, but I like to keep my training simple. JUST ME.

Cheers

[Paul Every]

Shuffla, on May 30 2008, 10:28 AM, said:

I've been lucky enough to pick up a Computrainer recently and the two rides that I have done were intense - and they weren't even structured.

Yes, the Computrainer. Sort of like a hybrid between an arcade video game and a painful excursion to Madame Maude's Dungeon of Bondage.

Many years ago I had a training partner who was a sales rep for Computrainer, (not affiliated with Madame Maude's). A group of us used to go around to her place, set up the Computrainer with a tough course of about 4 or 5km, pump up the music of choice and take turns to race the course. Let's just say there was an emergency bucket on the floor next to the bike.

Regarding wind trainers, there are a few skills they don't necessarily fully replicate, such as hill climbing (especially out-of-the saddle), descending, cornering, etc, but they can provide a quality workout. That said, I've never owned one. I have, however, always been fortunate to live in areas of Sydney with good access to relatively safe, scenic and exciting training routes.

Edited by Paul Every, 03 July 2008 - 04:58 PM.

[robbo22]

Oh god, the dreadmill equivelent.. you'll NEVER catch me on one of them, and funnily enough, you'll never catch me when we're both out cycling

They have their place I guess, but I'd rather get out on the road and get some real pedalling in - some real hills, and experience the cold, the wet, the hail, and the monster winds, because after all, training in it means you're ready to race in it if need be.

[Plazbot]

I think wind trainers are an enormous benefit to your cycling used properly at appropriate times. Still, if you have the mental fortitude to sit and knock out 3, 4 or 5 hours on one at target heart rates, you are one amazing person in my eyes as that is just awesome. Endurance biking is about getting fit first and foremost and long sustained easy/mod effort is your gold session. If you can do that on the trainer good on you. If like me you get bore after 90 minutes on one, I still believe that some 30-40 minute hard sessions are a must. You cannot safely push yourself hard enough on the road for VO2 max sets and doing them at 90% of intended is just a waste of time so a trainer is essential. Same goes for ultra high cadence intervals. If you live in flatsville, you will also be able to get strength workouts on them.

An example of a strength workout is one my coach gave us this week.....

Hardest gear (or one you can JUST turn at 80 rpm)
4 times through:
1min on 1 off
2 on 1 off
3 on last 30 secs standing concentrate on form and body position, same cadence, 1 off
5 min spin down easy (I ran off it instead)

I have just come off a hill block and this was HARD. You just have to be honest with yourself and really wind up the resistance or don't bother.

Edited by Plazbot, 05 July 2008 - 05:20 PM.

[rohan]

i don't have a windtrainer for two reasons.

1. i spend a lot less on this hobby than most people.

2. cycling is a skill, and getting your muscles etc. tuned for it is only part of the equation. being a low mileage cyclist. (140-180 per week typically) i think my bike handling/confidence suffers when i do less eg. miss a ride once a week for a few weeks during injury/off season, or whatever.
so i figure if i'm not cycling a whole lot then it really needs to be actually on the bike.
i do have the advantage of being 3km from a velodrome though, so finding a traffic free place to do speedwork is not really a problem

[Mango]

Plazbot, on Jul 5 2008, 05:18 PM, said:

An example of a strength workout is one my coach gave us this week.....

Hardest gear (or one you can JUST turn at 80 rpm)
4 times through:
1min on 1 off
2 on 1 off
3 on last 30 secs standing concentrate on form and body position, same cadence, 1 off
5 min spin down easy (I ran off it instead)

I have just come off a hill block and this was HARD. You just have to be honest with yourself and really wind up the resistance or don't bother.

That looks like a solid session Plaz. I might give it a go this week. So assuming a 10min wu, the session would be roughly 51min?

[Plazbot]

That adds up I think. My w/u was a swim squad then straight onto the bike. I would suggest some pretty easy warm up for about the 10 minutes you suggested.