19 replies to this topic

[CrazyPom]

On a camping trip in central QLD last week I was bitten on the neck by a tick. I managed to remove it and felt unwell very briefly - sweaty and pale - possibly due the neurotoxin in the tick (symptoms ive previously had due to a drop in blood pressure) or just squeamishness!

I havent had any problems so far but it seems possible side effects can occur late - symptoms of course range from a rash to paralysis and death!!

I will probably see my GP and get a course of antbiotics to be safe, but in the meantime in the absence of any symptoms should I continue training for Melbourne Marathon in 4 weeks?

Anyone with any advice/experience on this?

[littleblackpug]

I had plenty of ticks as a kid and teenager, on the land behind my home ticks were rife, of both the paralysis tick and non-poisonous variety, the worst I ever got was a lump at the site and a headache.

I don't think there's any call for antibiotics, those things are worse for you than ticks (unless you have a proven infection that your body is not beating, however).

I would keep training. But obviously I'm not a doctor, so if you're worried, ask them.

[littleblackpug]

CrazyPom, on Sep 14 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

I havent had any problems so far but it seems possible side effects can occur late - symptoms of course range from a rash to paralysis and death!!

Is there any evidence of grown human males dying after a tick has been removed? I thought only very young kids and animals were at risk of this.

Perhaps if you were allergic.

Our pets use to get them often, we would have to check them over every night, and they would build up quite a tolerance to them, and by the end of tick season we would sometimes pull some quite fat, blood filled paralysis ticks from them without them showing any effects.

Edited by littleblackpug, 14 September 2008 - 11:51 AM.

[andrew t]

If you by central Queensland you mean well away from the coast - then you are probably out of the range of the nastiest Australian tick, the Paralysis Tick, and also probably out of the range of Tick Typhus which is apparently pretty scarce anyway. As you haven't suffered much immediate effects to the toxin or an allergic reaction there can't be a lot to more worry about. Sydney Uni Medical Entomology has info online. Tick bites are frequent events in SE Australia - I must have had 30+ and people who are serious bushwalkers or who work a lot in the bush would get plenty more. I've had symptoms a few times when the tick has stayed on for a few days but the only nasty incident was in the NE US where I picked up Lyme Disease - very debilitating but fortunately doesn't seem to occur in Australia.

Andrew

[CrazyPom]

andrew t, on Sep 14 2008, 11:51 AM, said:

If you by central Queensland you mean well away from the coast - then you are probably out of the range of the nastiest Australian tick, the Paralysis Tick, and also probably out of the range of Tick Typhus which is apparently pretty scarce anyway. As you haven't suffered much immediate effects to the toxin or an allergic reaction there can't be a lot to more worry about. Sydney Uni Medical Entomology has info online. Tick bites are frequent events in SE Australia - I must have had 30+ and people who are serious bushwalkers or who work a lot in the bush would get plenty more. I've had symptoms a few times when the tick has stayed on for a few days but the only nasty incident was in the NE US where I picked up Lyme Disease - very debilitating but fortunately doesn't seem to occur in Australia.

Andrew

No I was in central QLD coast mainly, probably picked this one up on a campsite near Hervey Bay though.

I thought Lyme disease was here as well? So probably the wosrt case scenario is a paralysis tick, which it sounds like is only bad news while still attached? I think I got to mine pretty quickly. Thanks for the link.

[Bellthorpe]

If you were briefly sweaty and pale I would suggest that you had a minor shock reaction. It's passed, there's nothing to worry about now. An anti-histamine at the time would have been useful.

My wife and I often get tick bites. They are annoying more for the long term discomfort than anything else. They can leave a weeping sore that is a nuisance on the scalp or in the crutch, for example. But they have no other impact.

I've had tick typhus. The symptoms were like a very bad flu. I was in Melbourne when the symptoms developed, but fortunately did not see a doctor there. I was so sick I came home and saw my own doctor, who confirmed it with a blood test. At least I will never get that again. Fortunately as a result I'm now immune to Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Siberian tick typhus and others. I said 'fortunately' as a Melbourne doctor is not likely to have seen many tick bite symptoms.

I've also recently had anaphylactic shock as a result. This is what you might have had a mild case of. Very rapid pulse (over 80!), very low blood pressure (around 80/40!), blotchy red marks all over, and high anxiety. Seriously thought about going to hospital, but it passed. Once passed, nothing residual to worry about. Ran as usual.

I don't think you need see your doctor, and if you did, I can't see that he'd give you antibiotics.

[runninguphill]

I have learnt a lot about ticks on this thread. On the morning of my last half marathon I found two small ticks (we call them bush ticks) on my arm. I felt very lacking in energy, knew that I wanted to run faster but couldn't. Not sure if it was the ticks as I have since found out that I am anemic. We get a lot of ticks around here as we have a creek running through our property, they mostly just make you itchy and are quite annoying when they get into places you'd rather they didn't.

[lactatehead]

andrew t, on Sep 13 2008, 06:51 PM, said:

I've had symptoms a few times when the tick has stayed on for a few days but the only nasty incident was in the NE US where I picked up Lyme Disease - very debilitating but fortunately doesn't seem to occur in Australia.

Andrew

When I lived on the northern beaches of Sydney the kids were given lots of pamphlets at school on Ticks and they often talked about Lyme`s disease in Australia. Ticks were a real problem where we lived but fortunately, no-one became ill. A friend of mine in England picked up Lyme`s disease and it nearly killed him. I am sure that there are organisations who offer expert advice on ticks so maybe you should start googling.

[andrew t]

There was talk in the 90s that Lyme or a related disease might occur in Australia - I took an interest because I'd recently caught it in the US - but people searching for it in ticks, humans and other hosts have have apparently found no hard evidence it occurs in Australia. Lots of details here. So it doesn't seem worth worrying about here.

[SlowManiac]

I got bitten a few days ago. It was on me the whole night. A tiny little tick the size of a pin head. Felt a bit rubbish for a day or 2, but no other consequences except for a bit of tenderness at the site of the bite.

[CrazyPom]

I managed to get prophylactic antibiotics from my GP, who advised me to run if I feel ok.

Lyme is very rare, if here at all. The worry is paralysis tick or tick fever, but if removed within a few days symptoms are usually not too bad, and reactions depend on your immunity and allergy status - hence kids and elderly most at risk. The problem with Lyme is it is easy to not know youve been bitten and present with an illness much later, which a Doctor may not put down to tick bite. In the Uk it is believed that Lyme goes unrecognised a fair bit and is treated as general malaise/flu-like symptoms.

If fit and healthy therefore it should not be a problem - I got checked out and some ABs because I am not an athlete - just a bloke who runs long distances and therefore dont need anything else putting potential strain on my heart and kidneys ( I have a family history of heart disease and high blood pressure myself). For the same reason I wouldnt run with a cold or flu.

It is interesting to find out what other tiny things can potentially hurt you in this country!

[CrazyPom]

SlowManiac, on Sep 15 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

I got bitten a few days ago. It was on me the whole night. A tiny little tick the size of a pin head. Felt a bit rubbish for a day or 2, but no other consequences except for a bit of tenderness at the site of the bite.

mine was pretty small also and I dont know how long it'd been eating me! Its likely both were lavae or nymphs and its the adult female that dos most damage, though she isnt that big herself even when full of your blood!

[Peterhorse]

without trying to hijack this importanty Q..... the UK reference reminded me of a friend who was over there for a few years. she's a real character and often goofing off but a very good A&E nurse. she was married to a Dr at the time, doing A&E work over there as well....so, they had been discussing ticks and comparing notes on related diseases etc, when coincidentally the neighbour visited with their dog. The pooch had not been its usual self the last few days, so my friend immediately suspects it could be a tick. she get's the neighbour to lie the dog down and they start looking all over, and sure enough there on the abdomen is a tick... she grabs the tweezers out and starts trying to pull it out...it wouldn't budge...pull harder, still wont budge... the pooch is starting to moan a bit as she tries to remove it. then the neighbour happens to ask... is that another one there near it? and another one just below?
yes...it was a case of mistaken identity - they were little nipples, not ticks. needless to say, the dog always looked a bit circumspect whenever she went near it for a pat after that.

had heaps, and will some next week when we go camping as usual. getting them early is the key.

[funrunner63]

Peterhorse, on Sep 15 2008, 02:58 AM, said:

without trying to hijack this importanty Q..... the UK reference reminded me of a friend who was over there for a few years. she's a real character and often goofing off but a very good A&E nurse. she was married to a Dr at the time, doing A&E work over there as well....so, they had been discussing ticks and comparing notes on related diseases etc, when coincidentally the neighbour visited with their dog. The pooch had not been its usual self the last few days, so my friend immediately suspects it could be a tick. she get's the neighbour to lie the dog down and they start looking all over, and sure enough there on the abdomen is a tick... she grabs the tweezers out and starts trying to pull it out...it wouldn't budge...pull harder, still wont budge... the pooch is starting to moan a bit as she tries to remove it. then the neighbour happens to ask... is that another one there near it? and another one just below?
yes...it was a case of mistaken identity - they were little nipples, not ticks. needless to say, the dog always looked a bit circumspect whenever she went near it for a pat after that.

had heaps, and will some next week when we go camping as usual. getting them early is the key.

Ah yes Peter,

I'm sure Run with Dogs and I have many stories like that to tell. Nipples and warts are the too most common "lumps" that people confuse with ticks.

But back to the topic; don't want to put the wind up you Crazy Pom but atrio-ventricular blocks have been reported as a sequellae to Lyme Disease overseas, and more locally extended QT intervals on ECGs have been reported in dogs suffering/recovering from tick paralysis in Brisbane- work published by Campbell and Atwell in the Australian Veterinary Journal 2002.

Generally speaking though, I'm sure the doctor knows best- it's just that the local vet probably treats more "adverse effects of tick bites" than the local doctor.

My humble veterinary opinion is- you'll be fine; I hope you're running Melbourne as your first mara in 27 days time.

Funrunner aka Craig

[brizza]

lyme desease sure is in aus,i had a patient a few years ago who made a partial recovery after being in a coma for six years.i think that is the worst case scenario and it is very rare compared to the number of bites per year

[CrazyPom]

Peterhorse, on Sep 15 2008, 05:58 PM, said:

without trying to hijack this importanty Q..... the UK reference reminded me of a friend who was over there for a few years. she's a real character and often goofing off but a very good A&E nurse. she was married to a Dr at the time, doing A&E work over there as well....so, they had been discussing ticks and comparing notes on related diseases etc, when coincidentally the neighbour visited with their dog. The pooch had not been its usual self the last few days, so my friend immediately suspects it could be a tick. she get's the neighbour to lie the dog down and they start looking all over, and sure enough there on the abdomen is a tick... she grabs the tweezers out and starts trying to pull it out...it wouldn't budge...pull harder, still wont budge... the pooch is starting to moan a bit as she tries to remove it. then the neighbour happens to ask... is that another one there near it? and another one just below?
yes...it was a case of mistaken identity - they were little nipples, not ticks. needless to say, the dog always looked a bit circumspect whenever she went near it for a pat after that.

had heaps, and will some next week when we go camping as usual. getting them early is the key.

Mine was definitely a tick!

[CrazyPom]

funrunner63, on Sep 15 2008, 07:26 PM, said:

Ah yes Peter,

I'm sure Run with Dogs and I have many stories like that to tell. Nipples and warts are the too most common "lumps" that people confuse with ticks.

But back to the topic; don't want to put the wind up you Crazy Pom but atrio-ventricular blocks have been reported as a sequellae to Lyme Disease overseas, and more locally extended QT intervals on ECGs have been reported in dogs suffering/recovering from tick paralysis in Brisbane- work published by Campbell and Atwell in the Australian Veterinary Journal 2002.

Generally speaking though, I'm sure the doctor knows best- it's just that the local vet probably treats more "adverse effects of tick bites" than the local doctor.

My humble veterinary opinion is- you'll be fine; I hope you're running Melbourne as your first mara in 27 days time.

Funrunner aka Craig

No worries and youre probably right about vets. Ill put myself on telemetry at work or get a 12-lead if I feel any dysrythmia! I guess the long QT would be caused by the neurotoxin would it - ie the inhibition of acetylcholine?

[funrunner63]

CrazyPom, on Sep 16 2008, 01:48 AM, said:

No worries and youre probably right about vets. Ill put myself on telemetry at work or get a 12-lead if I feel any dysrythmia! I guess the long QT would be caused by the neurotoxin would it - ie the inhibition of acetylcholine?

Hey Mike,

The authors believe "The prolonged QTc interval and altered T wave morphology of dogs with tick toxicity reflects delayed cardiac repolarisation and is comparable with long QT syndrome (LQTS) in people who are predisposed to polymorphic ventricular tachycardia and sudden death."

As for further details, it gets too tricky for me. We just tell owners not to exert their dogs in the recovery phase of tick paralysis. You however have not suffered from tick paralysis, and I doubt very much whether you (even with the family history) would have subclinical effects from neuro/cardiotoxins.

With your medical background, I'm sure you'll follow things through if you still have concerns,

Craig aka Funrunner

[Bellthorpe]

CrazyPom, on Sep 15 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

I managed to get prophylactic antibiotics from my GP, who advised me to run if I feel ok.

I don't understand. Do you mean that:

• Your doctor gave you a course of antibiotics to take even though you presented with no signs or evidence of an infection?
  
• You should take the antibiotics a week before your next scheduled tick bite? That's the true meaning of 'prophylactic'.
  
• You should keep them to take when next you get a tick bite? Even though you won't have an infection?

I posted this now as I was reminded of the thread because I just had a tick bite. My second this week. My wife has had three in the last two weeks. I took immediate emergency action. That is to say, I removed the tick and swore at it.

Significance of being bitten by a tick? Apart from when something actually happens to indicate otherwise, as has happened to me in the past (see above), absolutely none. It's very commonplace. It doesn't warrant antibiotics without symptoms. And as you know, taking antibiotics without cause lessens the efficacy of said drug.

[CrazyPom]

on a population level youre absolutely right. Ive had one course of ABs in my life so far. Actually I havent taken these this time - I just have a massive lump where the bugger was. I had cold symptoms for a week but nothing more.

Morale is Doctors dont necessarily follow the advice they give others, shock!