50 replies to this topic

[Keely]

Hello everyone! Looking for a bit of advice with buying some runners in Perth.

First a little history... I have been a loyal Saucony shoe wearer for about 4 to 5 years. My current pair are the Progrid Triumph 5. I bought them in Canada at the Running Room. However, they are now wearing thin, my ITBS has also been very bad the last four months, and in the last month or so I've been getting some pain on the inside of my ankle. It should be noted that I also have a tendency to role my ankle while running. I have always been under the impression that this was because I'm a supinator which is reinforced by the outside soles of my shoes being worn.

My new physio now tells me I'm actually pronator who's foot just wobbles around and has given me a referral to Sports Fever, where they fit me to a Mizuno Renegrade - supposedly for extreme pronation.... and cost a wopping $250!!!

So Questions...

... will wearing a shoe for extreme pronation cause me to role my ankle outwards more often and more severely? And is it possible over time for a person to go from a supinater to pronater?

I have been to Runner's World in Northbridge when my partner bought shoes and wasn't overly impressed with the fitting process... mostly because they didn't really fit at all! Do you know of any other places which specialise in running shoes?

... I'm not convinced that I'm actually a pronator especially since all my shoes indicator otherwise!

Thanks, for any help!

Edited by Keely, 18 September 2008 - 11:43 PM.

[orlando]

Keely, I'm not sure about where to buy shoes - I've got no problems with Runner's World myself - but I wonder if it might be worth seeing a podiatrist to try and work out exactly what's going on with your feet. I think that biomechanics when running can be quite different from standing or walking.

I've just had an assessment at Peak Podiatry in Subi and they do a video gait analysis of you on the treadmill. I found it really useful, not to mention fascinating, and I'm now armed with a list of recommended shoes. All the guys there are runners so they definitely know what they're talking about. I think there's other places around town that offer a similar service.

[Keely]

It might be worth it as I am completely confused now... if you don't mind me asking how pricey was it?

I think I'd rather spend a wad of cash on that then $250 dollar shoes which might be crap. I can run with ITBS (though painfully) but not with a sprained ankle!

[orlando]

$75 for the initial consultation - $56 for any subsequent visits. And since he ended up taping my foot, I'm popping in free of charge on Saturday to get it redone before the Freo half. You may be able to claim some of it back if you've got private health insurance.

I thought it was definitely worth the expense - and as you said, I may well end up saving myself a lot of money on crap shoes!

[robbo22]

(I have achilles tendonitis in my left [with a shin splint as a direct result] and ITB in my right. both which stem from the same problem)

Treadmill running is different from shoe-wearing running for most people. Try and heel strike on a treadmill... won't happen (unless you have an incredible pain tolerance)
(Not saying that the treadmill videoing is not worth it, because i think it is.. but moreso as a preventitive thing than to diagnose a treatment)


I've seen Peak Podiatry and I've seen the physio at UWA (on the go physio), for more or less, the same problem. PP filmed me running, said what's wrong, recommended shoes, and some stretching/icing/massaging for my calves.
The physio, whilst not filming me on a dreadmill, has done a whole lot more. Found more biomechanical problems, treats them and gives preventitive exercises. Generally, a lot more thorough.
What really impressed me, is not that he knows what part of my calves feel tight when he's massaging them, is that when palpating my foot, he can tell how my foot strikes, rolls, and lifts off.

to save me ranting anymore, see John Verity - best thing I ever did. Costs me $50 per session (but I'm not sure if this includes or excludes my 20% UWA discount). And yes, he can do orthotics if you need them.

Im not trying to slander peak podiatry in any way, because they were great, and i still recommend them, but i'd see a good physio in your case.

[serena]

Hi Keely,
I have only heard good things about runners world but haven't every been there myself. I have had a good experience with fitters at Fever in Cottesloe and always get my runners there (very nice crew too, one of the young lads is doing the Half this sunday).
I have also seen the fellows at Peak with my teen daughter, they were both great IMO.
I got a lot of that fee back with HBF.
Good luck!
sj

[serena]

Just seen Robbo22s reply and I would agree with that - a good physio is Gold. If you can't get in to see John Verity I can recommend Pru at Cottesloe Sports Physio.

[Keely]

Thanks Everyone!

I used to see a John (who's last name I never got) at Physiotherapy Solutions and the cards from there have a John Verity listed... but now he's lefts the practice and I've got someone else... which is the guy who's diagnosed me as a pronator.

I've been flat out recently and haven't made it anywhere to look at shoes. Planning on going to Runner's World and another Sports Fever shop... this time without a referral and see if they are fitting me based on what the new physio says or what they actually think I need.

I'm just skeptical of my pronator diagnosis is all.

[Hoops]

Hi Keely,

I'll second Orlando's suggestion of paying Peak Podiatry a visit before buying shoes. I did exactly that myself a couple of months ago and it was worth every penny, to analyze/confirm what sort of a runner you are and to get their recommendations for the best shoes/orthotics/whatever. After Peak I headed to Runner's World armed with a list of shoe candidates, ended up going for a pair of Adizero CS which have been great so far, definitely better than what I was running in before.

I just don't think the shoe stores themselves have the knowledge/experience needed to recommend shoes like a good pod can..

[djc42]

 Hoops, on Sep 24 2008, 09:53 PM, said:

Hi Keely,

I'll second Orlando's suggestion of paying Peak Podiatry a visit before buying shoes. I did exactly that myself a couple of months ago and it was worth every penny, to analyze/confirm what sort of a runner you are and to get their recommendations for the best shoes/orthotics/whatever. After Peak I headed to Runner's World armed with a list of shoe candidates, ended up going for a pair of Adizero CS which have been great so far, definitely better than what I was running in before.

I just don't think the shoe stores themselves have the knowledge/experience needed to recommend shoes like a good pod can..

I'll third that recommendation, although after 45 minutes with Steve at Sports Fever Applecross a couple of years ago saw me in the same shoes I still wear today - this was backed up by Darren at Peak Podiatry (Note: I'm not affiliated with any of these organisations, just personal experience).

D

Edited by djc42, 25 September 2008 - 05:29 PM.

[CliffyB]

I went to Sports Fever in Subiaco a while back and found Craig very helpful. I believe he is a podiatrist. He also recommended the Mizuno Wave Mercury for me which was around $229. There was no pressure to buy it from them but as I was happy with the service I didn't mind paying the extra $$$ for it. I'm sure I could have shopped around and got it cheaper elsewhere.
If you are after Mizuno's, Jim Kidd at Harbour Town have a decent range and if you are not after the latest toys, you will find they also carry previous models which are even cheaper and will do the same things for your foot.
I happened to be out at Rebel Sport in Carousel and they had a few Mizuno shoes in the Clearance section. Mind you I only looked in the mens section.
Happy hunting.

[Wheats]

Sports Fever at Subi.

They're all great there, and I have always been happy to pay a bit extra to ensure that I get the right shoe. No matter how busy they are, they will take the time to find the right shoe without pressuring you.

Very good indeed.

Wheats

[Keely]

I think part of the problem is in comparison to overseas, shoes in Perth are completely and utterly overpriced. Even if you include the exchange you're looking at around $50 more. I would never have even considered buying a pair over $190 in Canada.... whereas it seems the average shoe here is around the $200 mark.

I felt Sports Fever in Subi just went with what the reference said... fair enough I guess since it was a reference from a physio. Unfortunately I didn't agree 100% with what the physio and had some concerns. I went back to the physio yesterday and after mentioning my concern he looked again with the shoes off and gave me a slightly different diagnosis... !??

Anyways, I made a booking with Peak Podiatry so we will see what they say. In the end it sounds like there are really only two places in Perth for running shoes, Sports Fever and Runner's World.

About one of my original questions... is it possible for a foot to change from supination to pronation over time? Can strengthening/weakening of the muscles in the legs change this or is it mostly based on the arch in your foot?

[StellaBella]

I can't answer your question about the whole supinator to overpronator thing... no idea! Sounds a bit strange to me!

I just really wanted a thread where I could reiterate the fact that after having just been to Sports Fever (Inglewood) for the first time I was really impressed with the service and time taken to find me the right shoe!

I went in wanting to try on the Muzuno Wave Elixer due to a website suggesting they were similar to the Asics DS Trainer (my current shoe). They confirmed why I was wearing the DS Trainers (pod reco), checked me walking then got out a totally different pair of mizunos, laced them up on me, made me walk in them, made me run outside in them.... they weren't right so went through the whole process with yet another pair. The ones I originally requested weren't available in my size (though it was at the Subi Store) but as it turns out this second pair - Wave Inspire - were right as they have more support which I appear to need.

Yep $200 does appear to be the standard (inflated) shoe price, though the 10% discount certainly didnt go too far astray - better than no discount! I don't really think it's just Perth though... it's Australia as a whole that's getting a raw deal with shoe prices, hence the amount of ppl turning to the internet to buy o/s... though of course even that has certain road blocks in place!

[robbo22]

 Keely, on Sep 24 2008, 01:45 PM, said:

Thanks Everyone!

I used to see a John (who's last name I never got) at Physiotherapy Solutions and the cards from there have a John Verity listed... but now he's lefts the practice and I've got someone else... which is the guy who's diagnosed me as a pronator.

I've been flat out recently and haven't made it anywhere to look at shoes. Planning on going to Runner's World and another Sports Fever shop... this time without a referral and see if they are fitting me based on what the new physio says or what they actually think I need.

I'm just skeptical of my pronator diagnosis is all.

He used to work somewhere else, but quit, so now is full time at on-the-go physio, based at UWA.
He spotted what the podiatrist (peak podiatry) missed (just try doing treadmill running barefoot, then run with shoes on.. it's almost guaranteed you have a different gait. I heel strike, and no way in hell is that possible on a treadmill). Plus theres not a 2 week line to get in to see him.

I have no affiliations with him, I just think he's bloody awesome. He's recommended a bike-fit specialist to me which turned out amazing (im faster at the same perceived exertion, and more comfortable), has recommended a tri-training club to me which was even better (2 swim squad sessions with them and i improved more than 3 months with my old squad).
So yeah, basically, anything he says/does, turns to gold, for me anyway. I know not of the full details but John+2 others were involved in the rescue in the 2000 fatal shark attack in Cottesloe. Can't go wrong with him
tel. 6488 2286, (or direct 6488 3772)

[smartybear]

 robbo22, on Oct 10 2008, 01:17 PM, said:

He used to work somewhere else, but quit, so now is full time at on-the-go physio, based at UWA.
He spotted what the podiatrist (peak podiatry) missed (just try doing treadmill running barefoot, then run with shoes on.. it's almost guaranteed you have a different gait. I heel strike, and no way in hell is that possible on a treadmill). Plus theres not a 2 week line to get in to see him.

I have no affiliations with him, I just think he's bloody awesome. He's recommended a bike-fit specialist to me which turned out amazing (im faster at the same perceived exertion, and more comfortable), has recommended a tri-training club to me which was even better (2 swim squad sessions with them and i improved more than 3 months with my old squad).
So yeah, basically, anything he says/does, turns to gold, for me anyway. I know not of the full details but John+2 others were involved in the rescue in the 2000 fatal shark attack in Cottesloe. Can't go wrong with him
tel. 6488 2286, (or direct 6488 3772)

Hi! I've just gotten started running - and already I'm having a bit of a problem with my left knee. It's been quite stiff and has creps when I extend it, and having had one of the physios at work see it (I work in a hospital), he says I may have the beginnings of patellar tendinitis (but of course this was just a spot consult). He also told me I have a flatter left foot than my right, which is probably what's causing all my problems.

I've been following the couch to 5k program and am up to week 6, been doing it on tread (because of schedule issues it's more convenient), on a pair of Brooks Inspire (last year's model), and have just been bitten with the "hey i can do this running thing" when this thing hit, so it's quite discouraging. After all, I only have one set of knees and am just getting started running.

Anyway, all the rambling has a point because I wanted to ask (and it's related to getting shoes in Perth, i promise):

1. If one wants to see a sports physio for a consult, can I do it as a walk in and a one-off, and will they let me pay cash and not bulk bill it? i come from overseas and have to see if I'm already eligible to claim physio out of my insurance policy, but i really just want advice on getting the right shoes and what else I can do to head off my beginning problem before it turns into a full blown one. short of stopping my running altogether and getting into something else. And where can I find this John you're all raving about?

2. I've been going through all the recommendations of shoe stores here, and as a noob to Perth with no car, I've been having a hard time figuring out where everything is. I live far South of the River (in Armadale) and I'm quite used to public transport but I was wondering if you could give me some recommendations on where to shop and the address so I can look that up on the Transperth site. Which stores do you swear by? Given my current problem, I may need more advice on shoe-picking than I thought I would.

Thanks so much in advance, everyone!

[kathmandu]

 smartybear, on Oct 17 2008, 09:02 AM, said:

Hi! I've just gotten started running - and already I'm having a bit of a problem with my left knee. It's been quite stiff and has creps when I extend it, and having had one of the physios at work see it (I work in a hospital), he says I may have the beginnings of patellar tendinitis (but of course this was just a spot consult). He also told me I have a flatter left foot than my right, which is probably what's causing all my problems.

I've been following the couch to 5k program and am up to week 6, been doing it on tread (because of schedule issues it's more convenient), on a pair of Brooks Inspire (last year's model), and have just been bitten with the "hey i can do this running thing" when this thing hit, so it's quite discouraging. After all, I only have one set of knees and am just getting started running.

Anyway, all the rambling has a point because I wanted to ask (and it's related to getting shoes in Perth, i promise):

1. If one wants to see a sports physio for a consult, can I do it as a walk in and a one-off, and will they let me pay cash and not bulk bill it? i come from overseas and have to see if I'm already eligible to claim physio out of my insurance policy, but i really just want advice on getting the right shoes and what else I can do to head off my beginning problem before it turns into a full blown one. short of stopping my running altogether and getting into something else. And where can I find this John you're all raving about?

2. I've been going through all the recommendations of shoe stores here, and as a noob to Perth with no car, I've been having a hard time figuring out where everything is. I live far South of the River (in Armadale) and I'm quite used to public transport but I was wondering if you could give me some recommendations on where to shop and the address so I can look that up on the Transperth site. Which stores do you swear by? Given my current problem, I may need more advice on shoe-picking than I thought I would.

Thanks so much in advance, everyone!

SB,
i strongly recommend you see Craig at SportsFever in Subi (Rockeby Rd, just south of the intersection with Hay St, on the western side of Rockeby Rd). He is just want you need in my opinion, while keeping the $$ down. He will watch your running gait and try you out in a few pairs, let you run around a bit. Tell him about your knee.

He really takes the time to make sure you are in the right shoes. And even better its a free service, well, course you pay for the shoes you chose.

you might find once you are in the right ones the knee pain disappears. if you dont feel immediate relief then id go in search of a physio/pod.

just my thoughts though, keen to hear how you go

[b3y0nd]

hey PsychoChicken,

im in a similar position as SB, and i have also started the C25K program. ill prob be buying shoes this weekend, and sportsfever in applecross. i was wondering if you would recommend a experienced staff member at sportsfever that i could seek the help of.

By the way, are shoe prices somewhat 'fixed' by the shoe producer, or do individual stores fix their prices?

cheers

Edited by b3y0nd, 17 October 2008 - 06:19 PM.

[kathmandu]

 b3y0nd, on Oct 17 2008, 04:17 PM, said:

hey PsychoChicken,

im in a similar position as SB, and i have also started the C25K program. ill prob be buying shoes this weekend, and sportsfever in applecross. i was wondering if you would recommend a experienced staff member at sportsfever that i could seek the help of.

By the way, are shoe prices somewhat 'fixed' by the shoe producer, or do individual stores fix their prices?

cheers

hello,

no sorry i dont know anyone at the Applecross store. Im presuming they have the same process where they take you through and fit you out. If they dont or you dont feel like they are giving you the service you need, maybe take yourself off to Subi.

My understanding is there is a recommended price for the shoes, but various stores are offerring discounts all the time, especially on the older model shoes (ie each shoe style is usually upgraded every 6 months or so, generally its just a colour change or a slight change in the design, so getting older models for cheaper is a great way to cut costs).

The main thing though, is to get the right fit to start with, then once you know the model you need, then start looking around.

Good luck with your running, the C25K program is tops, look forward to seeing you are around at some races soon.

[smartybear]

 PsychoChicken, on Oct 17 2008, 09:30 AM, said:

SB,
i strongly recommend you see Craig at SportsFever in Subi (Rockeby Rd, just south of the intersection with Hay St, on the western side of Rockeby Rd). He is just want you need in my opinion, while keeping the $$ down. He will watch your running gait and try you out in a few pairs, let you run around a bit. Tell him about your knee.

He really takes the time to make sure you are in the right shoes. And even better its a free service, well, course you pay for the shoes you chose.

you might find once you are in the right ones the knee pain disappears. if you dont feel immediate relief then id go in search of a physio/pod.

just my thoughts though, keen to hear how you go

thanks for the advice, psychochicken! i'm half hoping that i was just overdoing it with the C25K - not taking enough recovery days and so on - and that taping my arches when i run will also help. it's bit of a bummer that i may have to buy new ones because my shoes are barely 2 weeks old and it will seriously strain my budget.

in the meantime, i'm icing my knee regularly and sticking to the elliptical machine - which i hate, but is non-impact. if it doesn't help and the knee pain comes back once i hit the treadmill once more, i'm going to have to get new shoes. *sigh*

[kathmandu]

 smartybear, on Oct 17 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

thanks for the advice, psychochicken! i'm half hoping that i was just overdoing it with the C25K - not taking enough recovery days and so on - and that taping my arches when i run will also help. it's bit of a bummer that i may have to buy new ones because my shoes are barely 2 weeks old and it will seriously strain my budget.

in the meantime, i'm icing my knee regularly and sticking to the elliptical machine - which i hate, but is non-impact. if it doesn't help and the knee pain comes back once i hit the treadmill once more, i'm going to have to get new shoes. *sigh*

Oh jeepers, i didnt realise your shoes were new.

What about just going in for a chat to Craig? Hes a really helpful dude and im sure he would understand your situation. You might find out your shoes are ok for you and that you are right, its just a matter of more recovery. Considering you are wearing Brooks and he is a Brooks stockist, i am sure he would be happy to just give advice, if you indicate you would be a potential customer down the track.

just a thought.

[smartybear]

 PsychoChicken, on Oct 17 2008, 08:47 PM, said:

Oh jeepers, i didnt realise your shoes were new.

What about just going in for a chat to Craig? Hes a really helpful dude and im sure he would understand your situation. You might find out your shoes are ok for you and that you are right, its just a matter of more recovery. Considering you are wearing Brooks and he is a Brooks stockist, i am sure he would be happy to just give advice, if you indicate you would be a potential customer down the track.

just a thought.

that sounds like reasonable advice! thanks for that. i just feel so bad because i had such high hopes about finally having found a sport I can actually DO - probably why I sort of overdid it and did 3 weeks worth of work in 2 weeks. (I have the athletic ability of a plant.) here i was hoping I could actually build up enough stamina and gumption to run my first 5K by December. *sigh*

[trailblazer777]

athletes foot might be worth a visit...
http://www.theathlet...llocations.html
westfield carousel cannington, garden city booragoon,bunbury forum, and I think morley galleria

as they claim to do a good test...I had one once and the shoes they recommended seemed to work good...

I think most people are mild pronaters or neutral, with a few being supinators, and a rare few being extreme pronaters...
injuries, changes in weight? can change your foot position though, so various things can change which way your feet are operating...

sounds like sports fever gave you a bum steer, and maybe the physio was a bit wrong too...

pronation; there are shoes for minor pronation (most of us), and shoes for extreme pronation (like Brooks beast), which is a lot more rare from what Ive heard but I am no expert on the subject...
so I am guessing a lot but try
http://running.zappo...gfitguide.zhtml
it shows you whether you are more neutral supinator or pronater...

Im a big fan of Jim Kidds stores...but ask to see the manager or the top fitter as they should have better knowledge...

Edited by trailblazer777, 18 October 2008 - 06:59 PM.

[robbo22]

It's one thing to know what injury you've got and how to recover from it, yet it's another to diagnose and rectify what caused the injury.

Tim Noakes (Lore of Running) says it best (highly paraphrased. Note to self: read book again): Unless it's really severe and you physically can't, the worst thing you can do for a running injury is to stop running. If it's a running injury, then ceasing running will make the injury subside, but how will you ever know if treatment is working? unless you rectify the problem, it'll come back. Better to watch it dissipate with reduced volume/intensity.

Where this post fits exactly into the above thread, I do not know, but is food for thought.

[loubee]

 robbo22, on Oct 20 2008, 06:54 PM, said:

It's one thing to know what injury you've got and how to recover from it, yet it's another to diagnose and rectify what caused the injury.

Tim Noakes (Lore of Running) says it best (highly paraphrased. Note to self: read book again): Unless it's really severe and you physically can't, the worst thing you can do for a running injury is to stop running. If it's a running injury, then ceasing running will make the injury subside, but how will you ever know if treatment is working? unless you rectify the problem, it'll come back. Better to watch it dissipate with reduced volume/intensity.

Where this post fits exactly into the above thread, I do not know, but is food for thought.

Not sure where it fits in either but I'm very glad you mentioned it, thanks robbo

[StellaBella]

 loubee, on Oct 20 2008, 10:10 PM, said:

Not sure where it fits in either but I'm very glad you mentioned it, thanks robbo

I'd have to agree with Lou there...
Definite food for thought, esp since I've basically stopped running for 2 weeks (except the Melb HM & the Bunbury 10km)

[smartybear]

 robbo22, on Oct 20 2008, 06:54 PM, said:

It's one thing to know what injury you've got and how to recover from it, yet it's another to diagnose and rectify what caused the injury.

Tim Noakes (Lore of Running) says it best (highly paraphrased. Note to self: read book again): Unless it's really severe and you physically can't, the worst thing you can do for a running injury is to stop running. If it's a running injury, then ceasing running will make the injury subside, but how will you ever know if treatment is working? unless you rectify the problem, it'll come back. Better to watch it dissipate with reduced volume/intensity.

Where this post fits exactly into the above thread, I do not know, but is food for thought.

it's quite discouraging as a newbie to get problems even before i've actually begun, but i am giving it a lot of thought, and i think i should give running a fair go once more once the inflammation has subsided a little. still trying to figure what to do about my flat feet and i may have to buy a knee strap before i push myself again though. does anyone know where to get a decent knee strap (patellar tendon support?) in perth?

[StellaBella]

 smartybear, on Oct 21 2008, 12:28 AM, said:

still trying to figure what to do about my flat feet and i may have to buy a knee strap before i push myself again though. does anyone know where to get a decent knee strap (patellar tendon support?) in perth?

Smarty - have you seen a physio or a podiatrist? I know they are not necessarily the be all and end all but if things are hurting before you even get started finding one and taking their advice is unlikely to make the situation worse and could in fact make it a whole lot better!
(sorry if you've already answered this somewhere else... I'm being lazy and not reading back!)

[smartybear]

 StellaBella, on Oct 21 2008, 03:54 PM, said:

Smarty - have you seen a physio or a podiatrist? I know they are not necessarily the be all and end all but if things are hurting before you even get started finding one and taking their advice is unlikely to make the situation worse and could in fact make it a whole lot better!
(sorry if you've already answered this somewhere else... I'm being lazy and not reading back!)

i hope people don't mind that this is getting off topic, but i like posting in this thread at the moment because it means i'm getting input from people in the area, and therefore people who may give me concrete advice on where i should take myself (literally).

i already had one of the physios at work take a sneak peak at me - but of course i couldn't get them to assess me full on on company time! he does some work at a sports physio practice. at the time, he just had a look at my feet and sort of diagnosed the problem with my knee, but we didn't do any gait assessment or anything like that. he and the other physios on the team gave me some suggestions on what i could do to remedy the current situation (i.e. taping my arches, getting a patellar strap, etc), but they also told me to back off because from my history, it really sounded like i was overdoing it by not taking recovery days in between escalating my progress through C25K. i realize now that what probably tipped the balance was a 40 minute jog i did on grass the sunday before the knee really played up.

anyway, i rested it for a few days, bought a pair of off-the-shelf arch supports - and those are working out pretty well, i think. the subpatellar pain finally went away, so i tried doing Week 5 day 1 over (3 and 5 minute runs) and taking a day to recover. the weird thing is, though i did have some stiffness in the middle of my left knee, what's tender now is the medial side of it, just over my tibia. i'm beginning to think i'm just not biomechanically suited to running!!!

okay, enough rambling. a couple of questions:

1. at this point, is it better to see a physio or a pod... or do i already have to see a physio or a pod?
2. do you know of either in the area who really helped you a lot with your foot/knee issues? i would love encouragement from someone who's actually able to run without killing their knees and is flat footed!
3. how much does it cost to have yourself assessed - and how is it billed? do you pay as you go? i'm not sure it's covered by my private insurance (i'm from abroad on a working visa), but i am willing to pay cash if it's reasonable and it's worth it.
4. totally unrelated to the foot issue - do the patellar straps work/help?

i'm sorry if this thread is getting so off topic! i am looking forward to all of your inputs. many thanks in advance!

[markc]

Sports Fever are ok.. but I find they really push the Mizuno's hard...

[shano82]

 Keely, on Sep 18 2008, 10:41 PM, said:

Hello everyone! Looking for a bit of advice with buying some runners in Perth.

First a little history... I have been a loyal Saucony shoe wearer for about 4 to 5 years. My current pair are the Progrid Triumph 5. I bought them in Canada at the Running Room. However, they are now wearing thin, my ITBS has also been very bad the last four months, and in the last month or so I've been getting some pain on the inside of my ankle. It should be noted that I also have a tendency to role my ankle while running. I have always been under the impression that this was because I'm a supinator which is reinforced by the outside soles of my shoes being worn.

My new physio now tells me I'm actually pronator who's foot just wobbles around and has given me a referral to Sports Fever, where they fit me to a Mizuno Renegrade - supposedly for extreme pronation.... and cost a wopping $250!!!



... I'm not convinced that I'm actually a pronator especially since all my shoes indicator otherwise!

Thanks, for any help!

I have a few points:

- it is my information that only a very small percentage of people (<10%) supinate when walking, let alone running. Are you sure you are a supinator? when you say the outside soles of your shoes are worn - are you meaning at the forefoot, or at the heel? Typical shoe wear for pronators will show crushing/wear on the outside of the heel/rearfoot, where the foot contacts the ground at heelstrike - and then wear on the inside of the forefoot (ie under the big toe) once the foot has pronated over at toe-off. A true supinator will show wear on the outside of the toe of the shoe (ie under the little toe), because he is rolling outwards, from big toe to little toe, as such.

- if you are a true supinator, then the Saucony Progrid Triumph (RRP $209, btw ), being a neutral cushioning shoe, may not necessarily have been the correct shoe for you - the fact that you were getting issues such as ITB soreness, ankle pain etc, would further suggest something was not right. Medial ankle pain particularly would suggest pronation. The New Balance MR800MF would be one shoe specifically suited to control supination - admittedly it is also a very soft shoe, and wouldnt be well suited to high kms.

- From everything you have described, it sounds as if you may have a very lateral footstrike (given the tendency to roll ankles), which would make it very easy for you to then be pronating back over. Mind you, the only way to really tell would be to have a look at your running action.

- The Mizuno Renegade, whilst being Mizuno's most controlling shoe, is still not as controlling as shoes like the Brooks Beast, or the NB 1224, in my judgement. The advantage it does offer over most shoes is in being able to control the forefoot through the whole footstrike, by way of the full-foot waveplate - it is not just rearfoot control. It is for this reason (the full-length waveplate in the Renegade & Nirvana that allows for some forefoot "steering", if you like), and their ability to allow some proprioception to the foot rather than overcushioning it, that Mizuno as a brand are beginning to find favour with some of our referring podiatrists, and some of our staff. They have also proven to be up there with Brooks as far as longevity is concerned.

Seeing as it has been about a month since you first posted, have you run in the Mizunos?? How have they gone? How have your symptoms fared since?

Edited by shano82, 07 November 2008 - 07:00 PM.

[shano82]

 smartybear, on Oct 22 2008, 11:26 PM, said:

okay, enough rambling. a couple of questions:

1. at this point, is it better to see a physio or a pod... or do i already have to see a physio or a pod?
2. do you know of either in the area who really helped you a lot with your foot/knee issues? i would love encouragement from someone who's actually able to run without killing their knees and is flat footed!
3. how much does it cost to have yourself assessed - and how is it billed? do you pay as you go? i'm not sure it's covered by my private insurance (i'm from abroad on a working visa), but i am willing to pay cash if it's reasonable and it's worth it.
4. totally unrelated to the foot issue - do the patellar straps work/help?

i'm sorry if this thread is getting so off topic! i am looking forward to all of your inputs. many thanks in advance!

This thread - http://www.coolrunning.com.au/forums/index...showtopic=19924 - listed several good podiatrists, and one poster gave a very good explanation of what you should expect from a visit

[RunnersHigh]

 shano82, on Nov 7 2008, 06:09 PM, said:

This thread - http://www.coolrunning.com.au/forums/index...showtopic=19924 - listed several good podiatrists, and one poster gave a very good explanation of what you should expect from a visit

I am a regional dweller!! so my trips to Perth see the visa getting a good flogging.

Went to Sports Fever in Subi last week and was again impressed by their service. I am a slight supinator and was fitted a few years ago (by a podiatrist) for Mizuno Wave Creation (which have worked well). On my visit to Sports Fever I was fitted by Gus who had me try on 3 different runners (Mizunos, NB and Brooks Glycerin). Gus and another employee watched me walk up and down the store then had me run up and down the foot path in each shoe.

In the end we went with the Brooks but I was given the assurance that should they not be right, just bring them back.

Have run about 4 times in the new runners (about 40km) and they have been fantastic.

So definitely a 100% recommendation for Sports Fever Subiaco

[CliffyB]

Cmon Shano82 what about our CoolRunners discount????????

[LaurenR]

Does anyone buy a pair of runners, wear them for a month or so until you know for sure that you're onto a winner, and then go out and buy another pair for next time?

I keep telling myself to do this but just never do. Seems like a simple solution to the shoe issue, at least while that make is still in the stores.

On another note - my old shoes (Asics Duomax) have been the worst pair of shoes ever. They lasted about 2 weeks before being demoted to walking shoes. The blisters they gave me (and my sister who has the same pair) on our arches were amazing. You know when you get a few blisters all on top of each other? And they were huge, all the way down to the base of my foot. I took the shoes back to Athlete's foot in Subi and they just said this make has a very pronounced seam on the inside arch... nothing they could do (I was annoyed after spending $200).

Shoes are such an individual thing - makes it worthwhile spending the cash to buy two pairs!

[LaurenR]

Speaking of buying shoes in Perth... I just went to a factory outlet type of sale on Scarborough Bch Rd (starts today and goes for 2 weeks). I bought a brand new pair of Mizunos (the latest model of my current shoes) for half price ($100). If they go ok after a few runs this week I'm going back to get another pair...

If anyone wants the details, please send me an e-mail (lauren.robb@synovate.com) and I also have a voucher which sees PMH get $5 for every pair of shoes you buy, and you go in a draw to win a HR monitor.

Sweet!

Edited by LaurenR, 20 November 2008 - 03:00 PM.

[loubee]

 LaurenR, on Nov 20 2008, 01:55 PM, said:

Speaking of buying shoes in Perth... I just went to a factory outlet type of sale on Scarborough Bch Rd (starts today and goes for 2 weeks). I bought a brand new pair of Mizunos (the latest model of my current shoes) for half price ($100). If they go ok after a few runs this week I'm going back to get another pair...

If anyone wants the details, please send me an e-mail (lauren.robb@synovate.com) and I also have a voucher which sees PMH get $5 for every pair of shoes you buy, and you go in a draw to win a HR monitor.

Sweet!

Thanks Lauren! My husband has himself a new pair of Mizuno Alchemy 7s for $100.

Sadly nothing for me

[Pelagie]

 loubee, on Nov 20 2008, 05:37 PM, said:

Thanks Lauren! My husband has himself a new pair of Mizuno Alchemy 7s for $100.

Sadly nothing for me

I had passed by that place on my way home yesterday but only saw the sign 'Fashion Sale' and didn't pay much attention so thank you so much Lauren and Lou, I am now the proud owner of a Mizuno Alchemy 7 too and my husband bought 2 pairs of Rockport, one for $50, the other for $80.
A real bargain

[Fiona]

Aprroximately where on Scarborugh Beach Rd and did they have any other running brands apart from Mizunos.....thanking you in advance.

[serena]

where on scarb beach rd from me too?? are they still open tomorrow?
thanks guys
s.

[Pelagie]

 sjnathan, on Nov 21 2008, 05:06 PM, said:

where on scarb beach rd from me too?? are they still open tomorrow?
thanks guys
s.

It is at the corner of Scarborough Bch Rd and Selby St. I think they are open for another 2 weeks and Fiona, sorry but I don't think they have any other brands but Mizuno but I am not 100% sure as I was only interested in Mizuno.

[loubee]

 Fiona, on Nov 21 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

Aprroximately where on Scarborugh Beach Rd and did they have any other running brands apart from Mizunos.....thanking you in advance.

New Balance. Was really quiet when I popped in and the staff were super helpful. On all weekend, maybe even 2 weeks . 505 Scarb Beach rd as Pelagie mentioned.

Edited by loubee, 21 November 2008 - 11:35 PM.

[shano82]

Quote

Cmon Shano82 what about our CoolRunners discount????????

Haha - sorry, not been around the net much the last couple of days - anyone who comes by Applecross, drop the fact that you're a CoolRunner and I'll look after you - as well as making damn sure you are in the right shoe for your feet/needs!! I'm there every day except Wednesdays

As for the sale - it's not just Mizunos, there are New Balance, and some Adidas running shoes as well. There are a FEW pairs of Brooks also, and a decent set of Rockport and Betula casuals as well. It is running until the end of the first week of December. All the sorts of shoes you would find being sold at Sports Fever

Fashion clothing - you're looking at a lot of jeans, fashion tshirts, casual leather shoes and Onitsuka Tigers - all the sorts of stuff you would find being sold at Crush stores

And a tip for any CR's wanting a decent neutral racing flat - there are Mizuno Idatens (most sizes) on sale there for $100 - it's a great shoe! (my current pref)

Edited by shano82, 23 November 2008 - 08:57 PM.

[Fiona]

 shano82, on Nov 23 2008, 06:18 PM, said:

Haha - sorry, not been around the net much the last couple of days - anyone who comes by Applecross, drop the fact that you're a CoolRunner and I'll look after you - as well as making damn sure you are in the right shoe for your feet/needs!! I'm there every day except Wednesdays

As for the sale - it's not just Mizunos, there are New Balance, and some Adidas running shoes as well. There are a FEW pairs of Brooks also, and a decent set of Rockport and Betula casuals as well. It is running until the end of the first week of December. All the sorts of shoes you would find being sold at Sports Fever

Fashion clothing - you're looking at a lot of jeans, fashion tshirts, casual leather shoes and Onitsuka Tigers - all the sorts of stuff you would find being sold at Crush stores

And a tip for any CR's wanting a decent neutral racing flat - there are Mizuno Idatens (most sizes) on sale there for $100 - it's a great shoe! (my current pref)

What Mizuno model would be a good comparison to Asics Nimbus?

[shano82]

 Fiona, on Nov 26 2008, 07:09 AM, said:

What Mizuno model would be a good comparison to Asics Nimbus?

Nimbus is a neutral shoe, with a semi-curved last, and some forefoot cushioning. I have heard some reports of people not rating the last couple of models as well as some of the older ones.

The 2 comparative Mizunos would be the Creation or Rider (Rider might be a slightly straighter last though) - the difference in the two being that Creation has a full-foot waveplate, which will offer additional torsional stability and shock absorption throughout the front of the foot. The one thing to be aware of with the current few Creation models, with the "open" heel design, is that it can be quite "reactive" or "bouncy" - it's hard to describe, but as a fairly heavy heel-striker, I prefer running in the Rider. The upcoming model Creation that is about to be released is supposed to be going back to an EVA-enclosed heel plate - I'll be interested to give it another go then.

There is a female-only Mizuno shoe called the Fortis - sits just under the Rider in price, and also only has a half-foot waveplate. I tend to prefer Fortis for women who are not doing a lot of running kms though, as the waveplate is not the same quality as the one in the Rider. It also has less structure through the upper, and is a straight last.

The Idaten I mentioned before would be a lighter-weight "race flat" alternative - less cushioning, obviously, with the lighter weight, but you should easily get 200kms out of them.

Other comparative models would be the Brooks Glycerin, NB 1062 (useful if you need a narrow (2A) fit) or Saucony Progrid Triumph.

HTH

Edited by shano82, 26 November 2008 - 02:31 PM.

[CliffyB]

Hi Shanno82.
Not sure if you stock them but you seem to know your stuff.
Do you know of the differences between the Kayano 14 and 15?
Also I am tossing up between either of those Kayanos and also the Nike Equalon 2.
Currently in Mizuno Wave Mercury.
Any thoughts...

Edited by CliffyB, 26 November 2008 - 03:13 PM.

[shano82]

 CliffyB, on Nov 26 2008, 02:01 PM, said:

Hi Shanno82.
Not sure if you stock them but you seem to know your stuff.
Do you know of the differences between the Kayano 14 and 15?
Also I am tossing up between either of those Kayanos and also the Nike Equalon 2.
Currently in Mizuno Wave Mercury.
Any thoughts...

OK....my knowledge isnt huge on the Asics front, mainly from not stocking them, so i cant really comment on the difference between Kayano models.

Ditto, I'm not big on the full Nike range, apart from having done some research into the supporting data (or lack thereof!!) behind the Free's (having said that I AM wearing them as a day-to-day shoe). Equalon is one shoe I am reasonably familiar with though.

Mizuno Mercury is an old model that has been superseded - Mizuno would tell you the direct replacement is the Inspire, which has a very mild degree of rearfoot control. However, I do find a lot of Kayano runners (who are actually suited to Kayanos!!!) can be mid/late foot pronators, which would make the Miz Nirvana more suitable - a touch more controlling in the rearfoot than the Inspire, but again we're back to the advantage of the full-length waveplate in being able to "steer" the forefoot down, and prevent that mid/late pronation, over the half-foot waveplate.

Its a matter of figuring out where your pronation is happening, and where you are going to need the support - are you collapsing over early/already pronated at heelstrike, or do you tend to twist over/toe-slap later on??? The Kayano is for the latter type - note the posting doesnt start right back at the heel. The Equalon is very similarly posted. The Mizunos all tend to start controlling from the rearfoot (earlier) by comparison.

Two other shoes that could be worth a look if its mid-foot control that you need are the Brooks Infiniti (or Axiom is the lower-spec version), or possibly the Adidas Supernova Sequence (though that may be bordering on over-controlling). Brooks Trance becomes an option of you need the support earlier on.

Edited by shano82, 26 November 2008 - 04:58 PM.

[CliffyB]

Wow thanks for that.
I was recommended the Mizunos by Craig At Subi way back then.
I have broad flat feet and am a mild pronator.
My limited research has narrowed it down to the Kayano 14or15 and the Equalon. Trust it to be the brands you dont carry.
Looks like a coin toss as they both appear to be very similiar.

[loubee]

 CliffyB, on Nov 26 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

Looks like a coin toss as they both appear to be very similiar.

One of each Cliffy

I have been using Brooks Glycerin and Nike Pegasus, alternating them according to long or short runs. The alternating works really well, I like mixing my shoes so maybe keep this in mind getting one pair now and another pair later.

Have been experiencing ITBS and currently being treated for mild plantar fasciatis so I am off to purchase a new shoe. Looks like I will be into a mild pronating, no idea where to start so may be heading out your way soon Shano!

[Fiona]

Just out of interest why don't Sports Fever stock Asics?

I brought some Brooks Glycerins....the most expensive shoes I have ever bought, from Subiaco,witnessed by my husband and 2 of my children so I had to wear them for as long as possible, but just felt very flat footed in them and now have gone back to my Asics, but I tend to wear the inside along the heel out very quickly so always on the lookout for another recomendation of a neutral shoe.