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Are Chiropractors Witchdoctors?


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#401 AndyP

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

http://www.bracechiropractic.com/

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#402 cameron

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

My take on all of this is that there are two distinct branches of Chiropractors. Those who still believe in the BS about subluxation and those who don't. Here is the wiki page describing subluxation. An extract:

In 1909 B.J. Palmer wrote that:

"Chiropractors have found in every disease that is supposed to be contagious, a cause in the spine. In the spinal column we will find a subluxation that corresponds to every type of disease. If we had one hundred cases of small-pox, I can prove to you where, in one, you will find a subluxation and you will find the same conditions in the other ninety-nine. I adjust one and return his functions to normal... . There is no contagious disease... . There is no infection... . There is a cause internal to man that makes of his body in a certain spot, more or less a breeding ground [for microbes]. It is a place where they can multiply, propagate, and then because they become so many they are classed as a cause." -- B.J. Palmer, The Philosophy of Chiropractic, V. Davenport, IA: Palmer School of Chiropractic; 1909

Clearly this guy is a witchdoctor by almost any definition.

I do believe that there is a time and a place for Chiropractor, but you just need to be choosy about who you see.

In regards to the claim that a Chiropractor has a degree, remember that you can get a degree in bible studies, which is about as meaningful as having a degree in Harry Potter. Having a degree hanging on the wall, if you are from the B.J Palmer school of Chiropractor is completely meaningless, it can and should be ignored.... more than that you should get the hell outta there.

Edited by cameron, 04 November 2012 - 10:34 AM.


#403 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

Well. Just back from my Chiropractic  "Adjustment" this morning and I feel great.

Once again, this weekend I will reach my 2012 goal, running my 17th Marathon for the year at Glenbrook.

Its a pretty simple formula really. If you run about 3000km a year no matter who you are, your body will be taking a lot of strain.

There are ways to help your body recover and rejuvinate and I find a regular monthly visits to the Chiropractor reinvigorates the body for its next tilt.

I know I am reaping the benefits of this very safe practice as my times have improved over the years due to those niggles being attended to on a regular basis, meaning my training remains strong.

From April 2004 until October 2008, I could not get back under 3hrs 20mins for a Marathon but this year I have run between 3-12  and  3-19  on eight occasions in my 16 Marathons.

This weekends Marathon will be my 88th in the past 79 Months and the ONE CONSTANT FACTOR in this whole period has been my CHIROPRACTOR.

So lets make it Official--------

I can here and now emphatically declare that  CHIROPRACTORS ARE NOT WITCH DOCTORS. (Full Stop.)

All I'm trying to do with my little ramblings today is to get the message out to others who may be just starting out on Marathons, (and like me have a desire to enjoy as many of them as possible) that Chiropractic Care has enabled me to reach and maintain goals that I never thought possible.


Joe the Gadget Man - YOU TUBE  

Modern comfortable facilities  - Just relax & reap the benefits.

#404 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

View Postcameron, on 04 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

My take on all of this is that there are two distinct branches of Chiropractors. Those who still believe in the BS about subluxation and those who don't. Here is the wiki page describing subluxation. An extract:

In 1909 B.J. Palmer wrote that:

"Chiropractors have found in every disease that is supposed to be contagious, a cause in the spine.  B.J. Palmer, The Philosophy of Chiropractic, V. Davenport, IA: Palmer School of Chiropractic; 1909

Clearly this guy is a witchdoctor by almost any definition.

I do believe that there is a time and a place for Chiropractor, but you just need to be choosy about who you see.



Hi Cameron. While initiallly dubious of your Skeptical Avatar   (clearly I find Sceptical to be the more respectible of the Skepticals.)

You do make some valid points in particular that there is a time & place for a Chiropractor.
(I also dont really recall my chiropractor ever using the word "subluxation".)

But quoting this 1909 Dude is perhaps due for an upgrade by a decade or 7.

#405 cameron

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:43 AM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 20 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Hi Cameron. While initiallly dubious of your Skeptical Avatar   (clearly I find Sceptical to be the more respectible of the Skepticals.)

You do make some valid points in particular that there is a time & place for a Chiropractor.
(I also dont really recall my chiropractor ever using the word "subluxation".)

But quoting this 1909 Dude is perhaps due for an upgrade by a decade or 7.

It is totally outdated. it was probably laughed at back in 1909 ... BUT... that's the whole point. There are still a branch of chiropractors out there whole still believe this crap. This is what people need to be warned about. These are the chiropractors that give the trade a bad name. We are not protected in Australia from this, I have found chiropractor web sites in Australia describing sublaxations. So the point is be careful about who you see.

#406 Wedgetail

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 20 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Well. Just back from my Chiropractic  "Adjustment" this morning and I feel great.

Once again, this weekend I will reach my 2012 goal, running my 17th Marathon for the year at Glenbrook.

Its a pretty simple formula really. If you run about 3000km a year no matter who you are, your body will be taking a lot of strain.

There are ways to help your body recover and rejuvinate and I find a regular monthly visits to the Chiropractor reinvigorates the body for its next tilt.

I know I am reaping the benefits of this very safe practice as my times have improved over the years due to those niggles being attended to on a regular basis, meaning my training remains strong.

From April 2004 until October 2008, I could not get back under 3hrs 20mins for a Marathon but this year I have run between 3-12  and  3-19  on eight occasions in my 16 Marathons.

This weekends Marathon will be my 88th in the past 79 Months and the ONE CONSTANT FACTOR in this whole period has been my CHIROPRACTOR.

So lets make it Official--------

I can here and now emphatically declare that  CHIROPRACTORS ARE NOT WITCH DOCTORS. (Full Stop.)

All I'm trying to do with my little ramblings today is to get the message out to others who may be just starting out on Marathons, (and like me have a desire to enjoy as many of them as possible) that Chiropractic Care has enabled me to reach and maintain goals that I never thought possible.


Joe the Gadget Man - YOU TUBE  

Modern comfortable facilities  - Just relax & reap the benefits.

DESTINATION_43 all you have proved with your comments is that you run a lot and you see a Chiropractor a lot.  

You obviously believe that the treatment has worked for you, great.  This alone will improve your running and how you feel generally.

The primitive tribes also thought that their Witchdoctors worked but there is little or no evidence that the treatments they provided really did work.

My question is:  You stated that you struggled to achieve your running goals from 2004 to 2008 yet this year you have regularly achieved your goals thanks to regular chiropractic maintenance.  If so why didn't the the chiropractic care from 2004 to 2008 provide the same results?  You did say the chiropractic care was the constant factor.  If there is a significant change, logic says it was caused by a variable factor not a constant.  ie more distance in runs,  better quality in the running, or just time allowing the body to adapt and improve.

I don't want to knock the chiropractic ideas but they need to be tested against a scientific method to prove that they produce a positive result that is greater than the placebo effect.  Your experiment of one doesn't do that and may even suggest the opposite.  Until the Chiropractors get the evidence they have to fit in the same category as the Witchdoctors.  Some of there treatment may work, some may not, some may be 100% safe and some may not but we don't really know.  If you believe it will probably work anyway.  If you don't believe it won't work regardless.

Edited by Wedgetail, 21 November 2012 - 09:48 AM.


#407 Bellthorpe

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 30 October 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

He practises  "the gonstead system of chiropractic" and there are only a select few who are trained for this type of Chiropractic technique in this country.


Quote


Again I have no reason to promote Chiropractic Care but as I have experienced this wonderful strengthening of my running frame over the past decade I feel its only fare that I give my opinion with a big TICK. So here it is.............

www.chiropracticexcellence.com.au/the-gonstead-chiropractor/



View PostDESTINATION_43, on 20 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

You do make some valid points in particular that there is a time & place for a Chiropractor.
(I also dont really recall my chiropractor ever using the word "subluxation".)


OK, that was a bit of context. Now, from the very first page of the link above that you provided on the 'Gonstead System of Chiropractic', we read (my emphasis)





What is Gonstead?

The Gonstead System of Chiropractic is unique because it’s thorough, complete and specific in the diagnosis and correction of these subluxations. It is a safe and gentle technique suited to everyone from infants to the elderly.



#408 mutk

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:07 AM

sublaxate all the things. Seriously..

#409 cameron

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:59 AM

View PostBellthorpe, on 21 November 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:


What is Gonstead?

The Gonstead System of Chiropractic is unique because it’s thorough, complete and specific in the diagnosis and correction of these subluxations. It is a safe and gentle technique suited to everyone from infants to the elderly.


Thus my quote from 1909 is unfortunatly still relevant.

#410 Colin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:50 PM

Moving on from subluxations which the chiro I have seen doesn't believe in....a Chiro btw with a masters in anatomy and referred patients from sports docs at NSWIS, Uni Syd Sports Med etc, so I guess he must know a bit about the human body and respected by mainstream medics.
It is a bit like tarring a whole country with racism based on what many in community do etc...i.e. simple generalisation from people who claim to be level headed cynics.

Anyway...in my experience a lot of running injuries are radicular without the patient being aware of it. What is a recurring calf strain is many times a referred sympton from nerve irritation somewhere upstream towards L4/L5/S1 etc. Doc John Orchard et al have written about the work with guys like Shane Watson and other sports people where initial back trauma- long repaired- has led to tight hammies, strained hammy, calf etc...a current topic in Watson's very very long recovery from a 'calf strain'...remembering that he was sent home from England for this in June this year. Some 'calf strain'. No one now remembers Watson's initial problems with stress fractures in the back...cue Pat Cummins to the future...another who has rehab-ed more than played.

So in my experience over 20+ yrs of these issues:
If you go to a GP with your referred pain symptom, he will tell you to stop running to 'rest and repair' that particular part of body.
A Physio will treat the symptom, i.e. the calf, hammy etc and some weeks later you will have comfort-- only for it to return again because it was the 'resting' above that relived it.
Most Sports Docs will treat the symptom unless you have evidence/experience that the pain is originating from back, tight hammies, in which case he will advise scans which show nothing, perhaps a cortisone shot as trial and error to see where it comes from. Some nerve pain killer like Lyrica may be prescribed and may work (haven't accepted and tried that). Most will eventually give up.

A bloke I know that runs at SMC (quite fast) had about 6 months off in last year because sports doc insisted knee pain needed op to 'clean up'...found pain returning and in other leg as well. Doc wanted to operate on other leg too...said it was wrong one initially - true story which anothe CR can chime in here and corroborate. Bloke literrally 'ran' away...found out it was radicular pain..seriously.
The number of runners I have come across that thought they had local rather than radicular pain is quite large.

However, a Chiro like the one I saw will say "if it is nerve irritation, then we could try 'freeing' that nerve". How is that a bad thing and all of the above is not???
It sounds pretty logical to me.

You could also go to a real witchdoctor, he may roll some bones and give you muti, and with rest your symptoms will also subside....he might be cheaper and worth the experience.

disclaimer...I don't have blind faith in western medicine or any other sort of medicine. My brush with life threatening problems (I won't say 'death'), and subsequent related issues- all misdiagnosed by several docs have altered my views.

#411 cameron

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

you could also try this guy :

http://www.spirit-repair.com/

From the site:

"During his unconventional life, John has received knowledge and teaching of the healing arts and energetic realities both physically and telepathically from his spiritual companions, and from living teachers. After completing high school, John was led to a living source of hitherto unreleased knowledge, and continued to learn with these Masters for several years. At the age of 24, after many years of dedication, practice and learning of the spiritual arts, John received the initiation of Spiritual Master, and received the accompaniment of the The Master Angels. The techniques employed by John, via his spiritual companions are a powerful synthesis of known and unknown methods that are producing amazing changes and healing on all levels."

:Cry:

#412 Colin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Is he a Chiro or a GP that doesn't know infections...or simply a western witchdoctor?

#413 cameron

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

No this guy is clearly mentally ill.... shown here for humor value only

#414 chrisso

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:50 PM

View Postwalker1st, on 02 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

there is much more  bullshitery in western medicine

soon to be revealed, brace yourself

View PostBellthorpe, on 02 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

I have assumed the brace position.

still in the brace position? lucky you didn't have to hold your breath too

#415 chrisso

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:35 PM



#416 Colin

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

Looks like foreplay.

Anyway, sitting here with my back hurting and referred pain, despite the little running...something no sports doc or specialist has ever figured out, reminds me to get in touch with my trusty chiro...and no, have never seen him do shit like that.

#417 tonedbutt

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:06 PM

Just so y'all know, it's chiropractic awareness week.

Colin, sorry to hear your pain is acting up.  That sucks. :friends:

#418 Ponytail

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:53 PM

I know some people swear by them but my recent experience with one didn't help my recent problems. After shelling out $50 bucks a week for six weeks with still no improvement, I decided there must be better ways to spend my money...like pokies or prostitutes.

I believe they have their uses but are not for everyone...much like prostitutes, I guess. ;)

#419 undercover brother

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

how dare you compare chiropractors to prostitutes.
prostitutes provide a MUCH more valuable community service :)

#420 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:41 PM

View Postundercover brother, on 16 May 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

how dare you compare chiropractors to prostitutes.
prostitutes provide a MUCH more valuable community service :)
As Phil Gould would say  "no no no no No No NO" !

UCB to the Clinic Pleeease !  :Nerd:   ----- (And I don't mean the Chiropractic Clinic on this occasion either.)

#421 Colin

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:33 PM

View PostPonytail, on 16 May 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

I know some people swear by them but my recent experience with one didn't help my recent problems. After shelling out $50 bucks a week for six weeks with still no improvement, I decided there must be better ways to spend my money...like pokies or prostitutes.

You wouldn't want to know the amount of money I spent on traditional medics, from sports meds, professors of spinal something or other, GP's, Physios, MRI's, CT's , ultrasounds, contrast CT's, X-Rays etc etc over the last 20 yrs...still don't know what the cause is, no detectable trauma etc.
Enough to buy a squad of prostitutes and be the actual pimp making money.

Only spent $100 on a good chiro recently (two visits).....he also doesn't have a clue but at least he admits it, though his treatment provided the most temporary relief than anyone else.

#422 Ponytail

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:43 PM

Yep, I get that and I'm happy it worked for you and wish it worked for me.  I don't even want to think about the money I've shelled out on every test imaginable, Physio, Sports Dr, Sports Physician all to no avail.

I was skeptical of the Chiro route but was prepared to give anything a go.  I tried and wound up back at square one.  I won't call them witch Doctors  (the one I saw didn't have a bone through his nose) but I was not prepared to keep dropping the coins waiting for the big win that may never happen.

Admittedly, my issues have not spanned 20 years yet, just 7 months and counting.

Edited by Ponytail, 16 May 2013 - 09:54 PM.


#423 Colin

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:05 PM

Same with me...the chiro was a last resort and hasn't resulted in permament fix, but at least I only went twice, he is cheap compared to other medics, admits that he doesn't know, works closely with one of top sports medics at NSWIS, thinks of different things to try or people to see etc rather than if he doesn't know he doesn't think I am crazy or blames me...seriously tries to help.

I also had a scary episode with septacaemia two years ago which several doctos misdiagnosed and haven't found one since who has actually heard of the condition that caused it...so to me allthis banging of chiros and praising of mainstream medicine is just silly.

The best is to do your own research and be aware of your own issues, the symptoms, history and try to figure out what causes what. If I listened to the GP who warned me off Google I wouldn't be here today because I ended up admitting myself to emergency suggesting to them what I thought it could be.

#424 stewy

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

My wife swears by her Chiro (US trained) whom she has been seeing monthly for many few years now. I had a bad problem last year and she recommend I go see him - I've never been to a Chiro let alone any medical 'specialist' - apart from your regular family doctor.  My first/only Chiro visit cost me $600+ (x-rays/orthotics) - that Chiro still couldn't identify or address my actual problem at all - he was looking at unrelated problems that I hadn't come for!  Unhappy and now with an empty wallet I then went to see a local Phsyio and he identified the problem immediately, resolved it completely after 2 short visits and the cost - $55.

Chucked the stupid $$$Orthotics away - they were useless...

In MY experience and opinion Chiros are just overqualified snakeoil salesmen - that is all.
Do they still go by the title Dr? What a joke.

BTW  My father was a respected Surgeon but still never used the term 'Dr' before his name.

Edited by stewy, 17 May 2013 - 12:14 AM.


#425 Stej

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

hmmmmm..... reading this makes me wonder - has anyone visited an actual witchdoctor (not chiro) for a running injury?  What did the consultation involve and did it help with the injury?

#426 Colin

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:48 PM

...seeing that most running injuries are overuse and just gets fixed with rest, a witchdoctor would probably have been much more fun, lots cheaper and same outcome....than traditional medics

#427 Stej

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostColin, on 17 May 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

...seeing that most running injuries are overuse and just gets fixed with rest, a witchdoctor would probably have been much more fun, lots cheaper and same outcome....than traditional medics

Yes, probably more fun - I'm thinking grass skirts, dancing, smoking ceremonies, chanting, drums, "interesting" brews or "medicines", and possibly even a wigwam.  Now, I'd like to see what the health fund thinks of claiming a benefit for that!

#428 undercover brother

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:09 PM

View Poststewy, on 16 May 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Do they still go by the title Dr? What a joke.
BTW  My father was a respected Surgeon but still never used the term 'Dr' before his name.
now that they have the same registration board (AHPRA) as medical doctors i dont think they can any more.

#429 Ponytail

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostStej, on 17 May 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

hmmmmm..... reading this makes me wonder - has anyone visited an actual witchdoctor (not chiro) for a running injury?  What did the consultation involve and did it help with the injury?

It seems that in the Northern Hemisphere this may be the case...

http://witchdoctor.ca/?page_id=65

I like this bit...


Can Witch Doctors really raise the dead?

WDs are trained in these techniques, but unfortunately no Canadian WD has been successful to date in this practice. However, don’t let that put you off trying as many other alternative practitioners use techniques that have also never worked.

Edited by Ponytail, 17 May 2013 - 01:25 PM.


#430 Colin

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:09 PM

:D

I believe I have seen one, because I have been to so many different medics, it is a case of 'which' doctor should I see next.

Edited by Colin, 17 May 2013 - 02:09 PM.


#431 Quinkin

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:20 PM

I did see a chiropractor in my endless search to end knee pain. Nice bloke, but wasn't part of the answer. He was one of the chorus suggesting I needed surgery. The local orthopaedic surgeon was right in suggesting that was not what I needed.

#432 Wedgetail

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:12 PM

I love this topic.  Always fun to read.

It seems that there is only one area of medicine in which traditional, chiropractic and other alternative medicine agree.  It seems that the pressure applied to the body by excess money or credit cards in the wallet or handbag is the primary cause of all this pain and all these injuries.  They therefore are providing us with the best of care by attempting to remove all of this money.


#433 Tuttle

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:55 PM

http://www.theaustra...x-1226657282448


Chiropractors banking on $2m fighting fund

  • BY:JOHN ROSS
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CHIROPRACTORS have approved a $2 million fighting fund to beef up the profession's research base following Macquarie's decision to offload NSW's only university programs in chiropractic.

Macquarie University says low research intensity is behind its plans to transfer the courses, the first of their type in Australia and considered a world first when they began 22 years ago. Executive science dean Clive Baldock said chiropractic trailed the other nine science departments "by a long stretch" in terms of published papers and research grants.

Professor Baldock said this was not appropriate for Australia's ninth-ranked university.

"Macquarie doesn't necessarily aspire to compete with the Group of Eight, but we have to compete for students and research funds and we have to look where we put our investments," he said.

The university says current students will be able to continue their studies to masters level and emerge with Macquarie qualifications.

Professor Baldock said Macquarie would now begin talks with alternative providers after consultations with staff and students ended last month.

The Chiropractors' Association of Australia is already negotiating with possible providers, including at least two universities.

"We are not going to sit and wait to hear what Macquarie thinks," CAA chief executive Andrew McNamara said.

CAA is also sounding out researchers to run Australia's first long-term longitudinal study of chiropractic patients, backed by CAA funding. And it has committed more than $1m to "consolidate research leadership", preferably through a university chair.


Mr McNamara said the goal was to "stay in that research mainstream" as well as to ensure continued teaching in NSW. "Embedding a high-level research culture is essential for the profession," he said.

There has been speculation that Macquarie's decision to discard popular courses - unusual in the demand-driven era - reflects broader views about chiropractic's authenticity. Lobby group Friends of Science in Medicine has long campaigned for chiropractic to be scrapped by universities.

Founding president John Dwyer said he had no objection to chiropractic treatment of musculoskeletal neck and back problems. But he opposed any research into claims that chiropractic "subluxation" treatment could relieve conditions such as asthma, autism, colic, ear infections and bedwetting.

"We don't believe there's any reason to waste taxpayers' money on any study of things that are totally at odds with the laws of nature, and what we know about physics," Professor Dwyer said.

Meanwhile, students say their lives have been "turned upside down" by Macquarie's decision. The Chiropractic Students Association president, Martin Schutte, said that while students had been told they would be able to complete their degrees, there was no guarantee they could do so at Macquarie. The university said that while such concerns were understandable, it couldn't offer assurances because negotiations with providers still had not started.


#434 undercover brother

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

ive said it before and ill say it again.
the day chiro embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study physio.

#435 patto68

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

Is that because physio is so evidence based in what they provide?  Just a question that's all!

#436 mgi11a

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:20 PM

Oh dear I think I've just entered a time warp

#437 Ponytail

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:23 PM

I was going to agree with UCB but my Psychic told me that I should stick with the Chiro and then my tea leaf reader agreed... I'm not sure how many research papers they've worked on.

#438 run2work

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:45 PM

View Postpatto68, on 05 June 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Is that because physio is so evidence based in what they provide?  Just a question that's all!

As a physio, I would say that most of us would try to treat patients on the basis of individual assessment and what the 'evidence' says could be effective. Sites like Pedro and Cochrane are helpful for this purpose.

I'd like to think we are scientific in our approach, but to be honest, we still have a long way to go.

r2w

#439 AndyP

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:45 PM

View Postpatto68, on 05 June 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Is that because physio is so evidence based in what they provide?  Just a question that's all!
It looks like Macquarie Uni still offer a physio course.
http://courses.mq.ed...f-physiotherapy

Edited by AndyP, 05 June 2013 - 09:45 PM.


#440 undercover brother

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:21 AM

View Postpatto68, on 05 June 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Is that because physio is so evidence based in what they provide?  Just a question that's all!
compared to chiro, yes.

#441 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:48 PM

View Postundercover brother, on 05 June 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

ive said it before and ill say it again.
the day chiro embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study physio.


#442 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

View Postundercover brother, on 05 June 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

ive said it before and ill say it again.
the day chiro embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study physio.
I've said it before and i'll say it again.
the day physio embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study chiro.

I ENDORSE THIS AFTER 10 YEARS OF PHYSIO (While playing Rugby League) for little progress.

THEN AFTER 10 YEARS OF CHIRO (While running Marathons) for immense benefits that i'd only wished i'd discovered back in the League days.

#443 BogFrog

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

"Follow the gourd"
"No, follow the sandle"
(Or something like that)
Life of Brian

#444 undercover brother

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:21 PM

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 06 June 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

View Postundercover brother, on 05 June 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

ive said it before and ill say it again.
the day chiro embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study physio.
I've said it before and i'll say it again.
the day physio embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study chiro.
I presume you're joking however...
how prominent do you feel EBM is in current chiro practice (compare it to physio if you like)
and how does this relate to the education of future chiros - as per tuttles post.
feel free to discuss limitations of EBM in your response...

#445 cameron

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

To quote Tim Minchin -

"By definition... Alternative Medicine ... Has either not been proved to work, Or been proved not to work.You know what they call "alternative medicine" That's been proved to work? Medicine."

Edited by cameron, 07 June 2013 - 12:30 PM.


#446 Stej

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:53 PM

View PostBogFrog, on 07 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

"Follow the gourd"
"No, follow the sandle"
(Or something like that)
Life of Brian

When the decision is merely a personal one I think you just use whatever treatment method that seems to work for you.  When the decision is one of how to spend public money or whether there is a need to protect the public from nefarious practices the issues become more tricky.  Nanny state etc

I would be suspicious of either practice - chiro or physio - if they claim 'messiah' status (another life of brian reference) and promise miracle guaranteed cures.

Some people suggest that a positive attitude helps - Always Look on the Bright Side of Life.  Lalalalallalalala.

#447 Davo

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

If it was left to the ultra-conservative medicos, anyone uttering the word "chiropractor" would be stoned to death.

"Look, I don't think it should be stoning just for saying chiropractor."
"Oooh he said it again!"
"All I said was that the chiropractor made my back feel better."
"You're only making it worse for yourself."
"Worse! How could it be worse? Chiropractor, chiropractor, chiropractor!"
UCB :- "Now stop that!"

#448 undercover brother

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

View PostDavo, on 07 June 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

If it was left to the ultra-conservative medicos, anyone uttering the word "chiropractor" would be stoned to death.
why do you suggest we embrace them?
if we have a certain amount of money to train and pay to musculoskeletal therapists why should we choose chiro over physio?
obviously Macquarie is on the same page.

#449 chrisso

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

Chriropractic is as valid as Phrenology. Why don't universities have degrees in Phrenology?

#450 DESTINATION_43

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:42 PM

View Postundercover brother, on 07 June 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

View PostDESTINATION_43, on 06 June 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

View Postundercover brother, on 05 June 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

ive said it before and ill say it again.
the day chiro embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study physio.
I've said it before and i'll say it again.
the day physio embraces evidence based medicine is the day they all decide to quit, disband the association and study chiro.
I presume you're joking however...

I've learnt to live side by side with some of the doomsayers on this thread so yes a bit of joking is warranted similar in the vein of our much revered phrenologist.

But on a serious matter it is obvious on this thread that people will stick with what has worked best for them over a period of time and rightfully so, thus my continued praise for what has assisted me best in a sport called "Running"

THE ENTRUSTED CHIROPRACTOR Delivers Time & Time Again - in my case as recently as three days ago.. (Champion Bloke)

PS (I know in this modern world we live in that many people with "degrees" on this planet can't get a job and in many cases are just plain unemployable. - (Always nice to end the post in a jovial frivolous manner.-*Smiley Not Working*)