10 replies to this topic

[56kkv]

Hi all
1st time on the forum so just learning

I did the Noosa tri on Sunday (Ist in 15 years) and although a sniper shot me in the calf, dead on the 7 Km mark I only missed my target (sub 3 hours) by 9 minutes.

With the lack of training I did 3 pool swims, 7 bike ride since May and about 10 runs over 2 month before the race all between 5 and 10 km.
I was more then happy with my result: times were app :28 swim, 1:18 bike and 1:16 plus about 7min in total for the Trans

I know I can make up at least 10 or 15 min or so on the Trans,swim and bike pretty easily ( I'm find swimming easy and I need to do more riding into the wind and hills) But I need assistance in run training, hence joining this site.

At Noosa I have apparently torn some tendons near the calf muscle (probably lack of training) and was reduced to walking from the 7km drink station till well after the bridge where I was able hobble in a lame jog the last 1.5km to the line. I figured I lost about a good 10min during that period of the race by walking, stretching and fighting of the first aid people who were circling me like sharks. So I would think my run time would have been about 65min.

I have read about brick training and I'll be following up with a short run after most of my bike session what other training would improve my 60+ 10km times before Moolooaba? I'm looking to get my run times down to 52 - 57min. Is there much in heart rate training never done it before or should I establish a higher level of fitness first?. I'm 43 and about 95 kg


Noosa was 3:09 I would like to do Moolooaba at around 2:45

Thanks for any assistance

John

Must say I was impressed by the crowds and all the littlens giving support and high fives. Even the competitors were great as they went by giving encouragement How bout the water fight near the turnround! That was a great event.

[deadcat]

hi John.. welcome!

I would think that with your relative short running history I would think prolly the best thing you could do would be to get some regular running going.. if you trained with 10 runs over 8 weeks for Noosa, i'd try to get your average up over two runs a weeks towards 3..

I'm not that hot on tri running training but 3 sessions wouldn't seem too bad.. one tempo, one long and one easy??

But take it easy and make sure you're well recovered from that snipers shot that got you in the calf !!

[Tux]

Hi 56kkv and welcome to CoolRunning.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the Noosa Tri it is a good event, and Noosa is a great place to relax for a few days after the race.

The first thing to do is get over your injury and don't start running again until it is right. You will be able to swim will you recover and possibly ride so you can build on your fitness.

I think you have answered your question yourself, in that your running has suffered due to your lack of training leading up to Noosa. To improve your run you will need to work on the bike leg as well as the run leg, so that you are reasonably fresh when you start the run. From the training you have listed you have done on average around 1 ride a month and 1 run a week leading up to the race. Over the next 4 and half months leading up to the race in Mooloolaba you will need to increase both the number and duration of your rides and runs. If you were to build up to 2 then 3 runs a week with one run a long run of 15K+ and with a least one run off the bike, I think you would notice a big difference come March.

[Goughy]

I'm just into my tri training. My main focus's are the BRW on the gold coast next year and then noosa, with a smattering of local things thrown in.

What I'm doing at the moment is having rest days on Monday and Friday. Tuesday and Thursday are a morning run, about 30 to 40mins (with 5mins warmup/down on exercise bike) which vary with strides, race pace, fartlek, hills etc etc. Those nights I'm trying to squeeze in a resistance band and core workout in the form of a circuit with higher rep low weight. I follow that with 30mins on the exercise bike - either keeping the hr up or say doing 1min fast/1min slow or something. Just to break up the monotony. Wednesday mornings are swimming. Saturday mornings are a light jog to the pool for another swim then after the kids lessons I do my long easy run (60mins to 90mins). Sundays are on the bike for between 60 and 120mins where I do my brick session by running 2mile off the bike. My wife thinks I'm over doing things. But with 3 different disciplines to do I feel I have to do at least 2 seesions per week on each. And I feel my running will be the key. It's the thing I'm probably most afraid of.

As far as heart rate training goes I'm no expert. But I got a hrm and use it a lot. Much of my running is based more on what my hr is doing rather than distance/pace. I've also been able to work out what hr I can handle for longer periods of time. And hopefully that will help me not run out of breath during the tri's. The body is another thing. But my easy runs I keep to a certain hr range and my faster runs I keep to a higher hr range. The theory is that my pace should slowly increase for that hr as I get stronger/fitter.

I too am very new to this having only started running in May. This training has only been going for 2 weeks now. What I do like about it is at least it's different things all the time. And if I do miss something I won't feel so bad since there's plenty else going on.

I'll be doing the swim in a team at Mooloolaba and may catch up with you then.

[Puaka]

Tux, on Nov 4 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

If you were to build up to 2 then 3 runs a week with one run a long run of 15K+ and with a least one run off the bike, I think you would notice a big difference come March.

I agree with Tux. From my rather limited experience (5 OD tris), I have found I need to do 3-4 runs of around 15km in the last 6 weeks out to feel strong on the run leg. Also some runs off the bike. It would also be useful to do some of the shorter tris - eg Bribie Island or Gatorade series - to hone your transitions and to run off the bike in race conditions.

Good luck at Mooloolaba!

Paul

[Peterhorse]

I asked a chap who is a bit of a gun (2:03:xx at Noosa last Sunday) this same question and the reply was along the lines of "the key to a better run is a better bike leg". I had about 4hours of drinking by then so i'm not sure what else he said but for the training lead up you described, a lot more volume/time on the bike in addition to thinking about your running would be a great start. brik sessions included.
The issue of avoiding injuries and breakdowns during an event (and in training) is about not cramming for this test. You need ot build slowly and avoid the urge to smash yourself with high volume and high intensity sessions in a short space of time.
Mooloolaba is far enough away to do that, but the long steady build up should start now. e.g. when you have done 3-4 months of 3-4 sessions each and every week of bike and run at easy pace, you'll be almost certain of being fit enough and strong enough in your body.
good luck and see you there
PH

Edited by Peterhorse, 05 November 2008 - 07:27 AM.

[56kkv]

Thanks for the help

The build up to 3 runs a week is logical. I done a bit of reading from the site and have become a little more educated if not confused about how to go about building up to the run training and knocking my run time down. I was once able to swim and cycle around 20-22 min and 1:03-1:07 respectively but my runs were always 50 something. So getting strong on the bike and swim are relatively easy (doubt if I'll get to those times again). So I understand where your coming from in getting off the bike strongly my quads sure didn't appreciate the run leg at noosa but even when I was fit I was a pretty weak runner.

I bought one of those 12 week Tri programs from ebay it seems pretty comprehensive the run build is similar to what you guys have talked about long runs tempo and time trials and so on, but it it is more about times and effort then mileage . I won't be able to stick to it rigidly particularly the bike but it a plan which I have never used before.

The plan also incorporates core strength workout which was mention earlier and I think is pretty important and I'll be able to do at work. I intend to start riding with a group in a couple weeks time they pretty hard on the 80km Thursday ride if I can run with that crowd I expect my bike times will tumble. But for now I'll ride med/fast on 60km group ride,weekend long group ride upto 120km and a solo 50km tt.

I would like to find out more on HR racing and training some of these discussion seem to contradict each other so do you know of any good articles or books on the subject? I was going to do a search on Lydiard theory and MAF re low HR training

Again thanks for your assistance I'm off to nominate for Moolooba.

John

[New2Tri]

I am only new to tri but have found the club I train with so beneficial. I am only starting out with enticer distances and will then be building up to distances that you are doing in about 4-6 months. I have found the running training with the club so great - especially focusing on running form like making sure I am holding me head up, coordinating my breaths and strides, relaxing my arms, shoulders back etc. I have found that having this good technique in training has helped me with the longer distances and has cut my run times significantly.

Sorry I know this may not be that helpful but it has really helped me.

[littleblackpug]

The stronger you are on the bike the less it will effect your run also, as mentioned above by Peterhorse. That doesn't mean that if your are a good cyclist you will automatically run well, quite the opposite as balancing ride and run training can be quite tricky, but traithlon isn't 3 separate events, it's 1, it's about putting all 3 together.

You also have to race to get race fit, in anything, so stick with it.

[56kkv]

Well today I start back run training after the calf injury from Noosa. I've working on the bike and swim without to much of a problem. I intend to do some easy afternoon 2 and 5 k run sessions (Majority of them brick) till I feel the calf muscle is healed. With the bike I'm getting some miles in my legs first then I'll look at hill work to build strength, then a lot of group work for speed and fitness. At present I do one advanced group ride (hard 50-60km), a ride with a couple of people that are just starting to ride (easy,30-40km) and a long weekend ride (medium 90-120km)

I have got my 13 yo daughter into the mini distance (350/10/2) and built up an old cannodale with good running gear for a her first bike rather then the old mountain bike. This afternoon period of training should suit her level as well (10km on bike and 2-5 km run). Although I think she will improve her running very quickly and leave me behind. She did her first tri 2 weeks ago without any training did 54 min. Just with an improved bike and knowing what to do in the transitions I think she will pick up several minute. Mid 40min tri will get in her in the top to in her category in the local derby. As long as she enjoy it that's all that matters

Apparently the local tri club does have weekly training session so we may go along and see if the session suit my daughter and it may be beneficial to my running as well.

Still looking for a book or article that will explain more about basic heart rate monitor training for dummies like myself any suggestions?

Thanks for the reply

[James77]

This is an interesting topic so anybody that has some real knowledge and credibility on the topic would love to hear your thoughts and comments.

I started to use a basic HRM - by Polar and got on the site www.pursuit-performance.com.au - this lead to some basic but interesting articles around HRM, testing etc etc

from what I could gather in links from here it was all saying things are only a guide unless you get yourself really tested with VO2 MAX, Lactate analyzers and the like - very funky and expensive gear used by AIS etc

otherwise things are a guide etc - someone even suggested maxing yourself to get your max - sounded silly to me but then again sounded as credible as the one size fits all 220-age as when cycling the other day we started to compare our HR on a long hill climb and this very subject came up.

so like most things in life i believe there is no easy way (damn it!) and if you want to get accurate and funky then contacting AIS and the like for links or suggestions might be a good bet - but if you are trying to get accurate and train using HR zones over long rides/runs it might be worth the expense which I should imagine might be several hundred if not more

For myself it is a good tracking tool, good to see recovery times (time to get from your work rate back to rest rate) and the average.

when i go for long runs it is good to know if you "could" be working harder but sometimes other factors may creep in so simply using the notion that cause your 5bpm under your ideal work rate you could go faster maybe that hill 5km on might lend you to think about keeping your pace - i think this is where coaches and sports performance people start to really earn their money as they can guide you through this

all the best on your hunting and let us know any more information you manage to dig up