50 replies to this topic

[clairabelle]

Hi guys. Just wondering if anyone else is finding it excrutiatingly difficult running in the recent heat? I did a 5.5km run home from work yesterday, leaving at about 6:30pm when it was around 26C and was reduced to a puddle of bright red, panting sweat within the first 2km and dragged my feet at snail's pace for the rest of the way.

I wondered why people walking across the bridge looked mildly alarmed as I approached them and found the answer when I looked in the mirror of the lift at my apartment. My face was not just red but an odd fluorescent shade of beetroot and I looked like I had been swimming rather than running I was that soaked with sweat .

Anyone else finding this to be an issue? Any tips on combatting the heat? Or is it just a matter of sticking with it and hoping my body will eventually become accustomed?

[AngelicOne]

My only suggestions would be to do as you did, and run later in the day ... or if you can manage it, do it first thing of a morning. And to make sure you drink plenty of water, before (during - if possible) and especially after the run.

An evening run is still going to be hot, as if there's been a hot day, the temp takes a long time to reduce.

Oh, and once finished, try to take as cold a shower as you can ... which will help to bring your body temperature back down.

Edited by AngelicOne, 07 January 2009 - 11:23 AM.

[sook54]

I also get very redfaced when I run - the only consolation I can offer you is that it does ease off (or take longer to kick in) as you get fitter.

Also when it is hot in addition to making sure you are well hydrated throughout I recommend taking it slower than usual. I did a lot of running in the tropics last year and found it took me a few weeks to acclimatise - I noticed that my heartrate was approx 10 beats per minute higher than for equivalent pace in cooler weather.

I always run in the mornings as much as possible - even though it is usually more humid then.

[Didge]

AngelicOne, on Jan 7 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

My only suggestions would be to do as you did, and run later in the day ... or if you can manage it, do it first thing of a morning. And to make sure you drink plenty of water, before (during - if possible) and especially after the run.

An evening run is still going to be hot, as if there's been a hot day, the temp takes a long time to reduce.

Oh, and once finished, try to take as cold a shower as you can ... which will help to bring your body temperature back down.

Everything that AO said.

When it first started getting really warm here in Brissie, I struggled with running in the heat, even at 5am. However, with persistence, doing all the things AO said, and slowing down a little - my body is becoming accustomed to the heat and I'm finding it easier.

As with anything to do with running, it just comes down to being sensible.

[Fossil]

Ditto all that - I used to have problems a 20C but now I am so much fitter I have few problems with the heat, although I do run am and pm generally anyway. Watch that you have enough liquid and salts.

[Paul Every]

The body does acclimatise, though some people adapt faster than others and some adapt more effectively.

I would suggest to try ditching the cap in summer, (I find that they hold in a lot of heat, even in relatively low temps) and opt for a visor.

If you are overheating on a run, I'd recommend putting your head under a tap as the fastest and most effective method of quickly reducing body temp.

[Didge]

Paul Every, on Jan 7 2009, 11:41 AM, said:

I would suggest to try ditching the cap in summer, (I find that they hold in a lot of heat, even in relatively low temps) and opt for a visor.

Yes, that is also another thing I have changed and it makes a hell of a difference!

[Bellthorpe]

Quote

Or is it just a matter of sticking with it and hoping my body will eventually become accustomed?

Yep.

[blair]

I love the warm weather but I have to admit that it can make running difficult after about 9am. I usually head out the door before 5am and get it done before it gets too hot. Seems to work for me.

[slowmo]

Paul Every, on Jan 7 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

I would suggest to try ditching the cap in summer, (I find that they hold in a lot of heat, even in relatively low temps) and opt for a visor.

You're right about the heat retention Paul - I certainly feel it even with my nice, light, white hat. But for those of us who are less well endowed (hair-wise) than yourself running without a hat in the day time is a sure recipe for a scorched scone.

By strange coincidence I was reading this page last night...
http://www.bhsi.org/baldhead.htm

slowmo

[mrscruff]

i hear you guys! i went for a run this morning at 6 and couldn't sweat enough. it was pretty warm already, and very humid. i was thinking i may have to try the upsidedown V of vaseline on the forehead again. i read about it on CR somewhere onceuponatime and it was really useful during blackmore's.

as a fellow baldy, i always wear my hat if running between 8-6 (ish) these days, but it IS extra insulation which you dont really need.
when i stop at a bubbler i always splash some water over the insides of my elbows and arms, as well as my neck to try to blow off the extra heat. only works if there is a breeze tho.

Edited by mrscruff, 07 January 2009 - 02:50 PM.

[enduro]

Definatly go early if possible. This morning I left it till 8am and it was already 23 degree's. I find at this time of the year it pays to be more flexible on what day to do a long run. It may be 37 degrees one day but a Southerly Change will always be on the horizon to cool things down.

[Didge]

enduro, on Jan 7 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

Definatly go early if possible. This morning I left it till 8am and it was already 23 degree's. I find at this time of the year it pays to be more flexible on what day to do a long run. It may be 37 degrees one day but a Southerly Change will always be on the horizon to cool things down.

Unfortunately here in QLD we don't get much of a reprieve. Especially when it's still 24 at 5am

[SouthAustralian]

clairabelle, on Jan 7 2009, 11:41 AM, said:

Hi guys. Just wondering if anyone else is finding it excrutiatingly difficult running in the recent heat? I did a 5.5km run home from work yesterday, leaving at about 6:30pm when it was around 26C and was reduced to a puddle of bright red, panting sweat within the first 2km and dragged my feet at snail's pace for the rest of the way.

I wondered why people walking across the bridge looked mildly alarmed as I approached them and found the answer when I looked in the mirror of the lift at my apartment. My face was not just red but an odd fluorescent shade of beetroot and I looked like I had been swimming rather than running I was that soaked with sweat .

Anyone else finding this to be an issue? Any tips on combatting the heat? Or is it just a matter of sticking with it and hoping my body will eventually become accustomed?

Im an afternoon/early evening runner, and while it can be still warm, i find the main bite has gone from the sun. I do a couple of things to help with the heat
1. I choose shady routes
2. I fill my cap with water regulary (where there are water fountains)
3. My wife made me a great 'neck-scarf' that she filled with water crystals. It stays cool for up to an hour and helps keep the heat down.
4. I take a cool flannel stuffed in the side of my shorts to wipe my face every now and then....

it all helps!
Cheers
Frank in SA

Edited by SouthAustralian, 07 January 2009 - 03:43 PM.

[enduro]

Didge, on Jan 6 2009, 02:41 PM, said:

Unfortunately here in QLD we don't get much of a reprieve. Especially when it's still 24 at 5am

Sorry I was forgetting that those Southerly buster's don't quite reach Queensland.

[sunny1]

Some of us just vasodilate better than others!

[Andolate]

A good post this!
I think i must be the softest of the lot. I really notice any temp above 15 or so. I love 0 -12.
I am even going to get up before sunrise (5.00) tomorrow to get my 10k's in as it is hopefully going to be 13 overnight.
Our summer here in Echuca has only just begun so I hope I adapt.
I really feel for you QLDers and crew from WA.
I wish i lived in Tassie!
Andolate

[shark]

Distance and intensity are the issues for me. I can run 8-10k in 30c midday and just be a bit hot but if it's a race then maybe 25c is my max. Once you get to marathon distance, anything over 20c is tough and fills the ambulances.

S

[paigebaby]

Living in Tamworth it has taken me 4 years to aclimatise to the heat. As im really only now getting into proper training im finding the heat a bit of a challenge. After around 10.30am its just too hot. I survive till around 25-27 degree's. I 3/4 fill a bottle of water the night before, then fill the rest before i head out. Its a great way to keep cool by either drinking it or pouring it over your head.

[fitzy]

While my job involves working in the morning usally 530am- 9ish then again from about 330pm-730ish, I run at least 2-3 times a week between 12-2.
Can say I love it always but I usally think of it as a challenge and think of it as getting stronger.

Stop at every available drink stop.
I also try and head towards the bush and the trails provide abit of shade, if thats an option...
Its not always about finding the easiest way

[Bellthorpe]

sunny1, on Jan 7 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Some of us just vasodilate better than others!

Certainly something on which we can all speculate ...

[mrscruff]

maybe we should hibernate, or whatever the wintery equivalent is. that would be way better. nothing beats being out before sunrise in winter, with the silence only broken by the birds. and no bloody spider webs!

[20thCenturyBoy]

I can run 5-7k in up to 40C no worries, without water. Haven't actually tried anything longer but wouldn't like to speculate.
I cover my shoulders in factor 30+ sunscreen and wear a mesh cap, which lets some heat out while keeping the majority of UV rays off your noggin.

[Action]

It is all about taking the time to get used to heat and covering up appropriately. The most common mistake I see is dark clothing. Doesn't matter what the fabric is, but anything other than white is hotter than just plain white. Having done MdS last year (250k @ 50C) I swear by a white lightweight loose fitting coolmax (drifit) long sleeve top, light coloured shorts, and a cap with a foreign legion flap on the back. Cap vs visor depends on both the quantity of hair and colour of what hair you have, and to a lesser extent, exposure to direct sunlight (early runs in heat but no direct sun).

I suspect I could get away with a visor in direct sunlight (I have a decent covering of white hair). I doubt if dark hair and a visor in direct sun is cooler than a light (colour and weight) mesh cap. I did some cap testing prior to MdS by running with a thermometer under the cap. Interesting, the R4YL white cap with mesh panels was the coolest by a couple of degrees. It has the added benefit of the underside of the brim being matt black and therefore reducing reflected heat. Unfortunately, the CR cap, whilst the height of running fashion, isn't crash hot at heat dissipation.

So, slow down, dress appropriately, and give it time. Either you will adapt, or winter will arrive!

[julz83]

the humidity definately makes a difference. i have just got back to brisbane after being in perth for 3 weeks. it gets hot in perth but it's a dry heat, i think it was 35 deg there yesterday and im definately feeling the brissie humidity here today.

if i run in the morning im up at 4.45am. get back just before 6am dripping but i make sure i re-hydrate and im fine.

it's conditioning your body to get used to it.

[slowmo]

Action, on Jan 8 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

and a cap with a foreign legion flap on the back
<snip>
Interesting, the R4YL white cap with mesh panels was the coolest by a couple of degrees. It has the added benefit of the underside of the brim being matt black and therefore reducing reflected heat.

How did you add the flap Action ? Was it a home-made job or can you buy something that attaches to a cap ?

slowmo

[SoLucky]

Running during this warmer time of the year requires an acceptance of limitations on your training duration and intensity levels, plus caution in choosing the time of day when you plan to be active.

You can still train long.
You can still train fast.

But in the heat you should not regularly mix the two together.
OK, long and fast are relative terms, and most of us already compartmentalise our training so that we don’t usually mix the long and fast work together. However, the seasonal combination of high temp plus high humidity in the Tropics (and sometimes, the sub-Tropics) means that planning becomes even more important, there is definitely less room for spur of the moment decisions to hook into a hard 20k run.
Planning starts with picking the best time of day, select that time that you find gives the most tolerable local conditions. Personally I avoid running more than 2 hours after the sun rises or more than 2 hours before sunset, that way I avoid the worst of the sun’s radiant energy. If I have a long session scheduled, that can mean setting my alarm for 3am.
If you have a long event coming up and need to do extended runs in training, fluid replenishment is critical. I will drink 400 to 500ml before I start and I carry a small bottle of premixed electrolyte concentrate together with an empty 300ml container. The empty container enables me to easily access a measured quantity of water from any of the taps that I make use of on my training circuit, it’s also handy for splashing water on your head if you feel so inclined. I weigh myself before and after a long run to check my hydration status, if I have lost more than 4% body weight then I need to adjust my intake next time. But if out for a few hours, I do not expect or aim for zero weight loss, I’m happy around the 2 to 2.5% range.
Don’t neglect your faster work, but don’t make your sessions too long, if you feel that time is insufficient, do two workouts in the one day.
Better to concentrate on a bit of quality two days a week with good recovery than to wring yourself right out in the heat. Summer can also be a good excuse to indulge in some cross training, a long hill walk or bike ride can add to your capacity for endurance events.

Plan to run with the summer conditions, make the most of it.


BTW, Action, what was your average daily fluid loss during MdS?

[Andolate]

mrscruff, on Jan 7 2009, 10:21 PM, said:

maybe we should hibernate, or whatever the wintery equivalent is. that would be way better. nothing beats being out before sunrise in winter, with the silence only broken by the birds. and no bloody spider webs!

I am with you mrscuff!!! Love the frost in the morning and my eyes running with water from the cold!!


Just a fact that is relevant to this thread. The coolest part of the morning is the first half an hour after sunrise. This applies in winter and summer, no matter where you are. Knowing this might help someone facter this in so their long run finishes on a pleasant note!!! (for summer anyway)

Edited by Andolate, 08 January 2009 - 07:31 PM.

[yeti]

mrscruff, on Jan 6 2009, 09:21 PM, said:

maybe we should hibernate, or whatever the wintery equivalent is.

Or just move between hemispheres depending on the season - its been between -10 and -16°C over here in the last couple of nights.

Yeti

[Action]

slowmo, on Jan 8 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

How did you add the flap Action ? Was it a home-made job or can you buy something that attaches to a cap ?

slowmo

I bought the cap/flap off the MdS website, and conveniently the flap was only attached with 4 pieces of velcro. It switched over to the R4YL cap without a hitch.

SoLucky, on Jan 8 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

BTW, Action, what was your average daily fluid loss during MdS?

We were provided with 3l in the morning, 1.5l every 15k(ish), and 4.5l at the finish. This was all your total water allocation, so cooking and any washing came from that allowance. An extra 1.5l was available for the cost of 1hr on your time! I didn't dehydrate (pee'ed a good colour for the duration) and drank most of the 1.5l between checkpoints. So, I estimate about a litre per 10k, and as the average was 40 odd k a day, 4-6 litres per day. The smart runners were quite proud of a strong light coloured stream of pee on a regular basis (the things that amuse in the desert ).

[Mick]

Was anyone else stupid enough to run in the afternoon heat (pushing 40, no breeze) ?

It was only 6km home for me at 3pm, but I felt dreadful at the end.

My excuse was I'd ran to work in the morning (which was quite nice) and hadn't looked at weather forecast.

Had two glasses of water before I left, but felt dehydrated by 4km, tar, not much shade, but did I walk, no, that would be too sensible ...

PS Hope Dan was out with his 8kg pack doing MdS training.

[volc]

Great thread.

I've noticed how much trouble I have getting rid of heat when I run. I'm a bit of a bear when it comes to heat - I hate the heat and love cool weather - people always complain I crank up the air conditioning too much etc.

Over the Christmas break I conducted an experiment - I ran a 10K course twice in the same week at the same time if the day; once (the first time) when it was about 35 degrees and the second time when it was overcast and cool. On the day it was ~ 35 degrees I had to stop 4 times (!) for water and was obliged to walk up some steeper hills to keep the heartrate down. The second time I ran it, I was 7 minutes faster for the same average HR as the first run.

I obviously really need to work on my heat tolerance. I sweat so much that the sweat doesn't cool me at all - the cover of sweat is too thick to evaporate.

[SouthAustralian]

Running with a flannel tucked into my shorts helps to clear the sweat from the eyes.
I went out for a 10k run the other night and had to stop at 5k. My throat kept getting so dry and the energy levels were minimal...but it was good to notice the local footy team also struggling around the GRT too!
Cheers
Frank

[Bellthorpe]

Quote

Running with a flannel tucked into my shorts helps to clear the sweat from the eyes.

You have eyes in your bum?

[Mick]

Bellthorpe, on Jan 16 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

You have eyes in your bum?

<chuckles>

but then perhaps he does, a brown one ;-)

[Martin Dugdale]

Mick, on Jan 14 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

Was anyone else stupid enough to run in the afternoon heat (pushing 40, no breeze) ?

It was only 6km home for me at 3pm, but I felt dreadful at the end.

My excuse was I'd ran to work in the morning (which was quite nice) and hadn't looked at weather forecast.

Had two glasses of water before I left, but felt dehydrated by 4km, tar, not much shade, but did I walk, no, that would be too sensible ...

PS Hope Dan was out with his 8kg pack doing MdS training.

We had a speed session down at the track and fortunately the breeze came in just as we were starting

[Spud]

Most of my weekday mileage is run around luchtime (except for Wednesday mornings) and it has been hot.
I don't do speedwork but run hard when I feel like it. I quite enjoy the challenge of a 40C run and look forward to the benefits of this training effect come Autumn.
Lots of fluids and suncream, a good cap and away you go...

[AngelicOne]

Excellent advice Spud. Just get out there and do it.

Oh and Bellthorpe ... with that kind of cutting and pasting, you must have been a journo in your past life?

[Bellthorpe]

Cut? Paste?

I just typed some words ...

[AngelicOne]

You took Frank's comments out of context and then, added words, which didn't necessarily have to be added.
But if it got a laugh, then I guess that's what counts.

After all, we are all just blokes sitting together in a pub, aren't we?

[Quinkin]

Like Julz I'm struggling with the humidity more than the heat.

I was also recently over in Perth and really enjoyed running in the morning over there. Back on the north coast, I run early in the morning or early evening. Whatever time I run, I finish up in a lather of sweat. It runs into my eyes. Even walking around in my unit I start to sweat enough to have to change shirts. It is often hard to get to sleep.

On Thursday the heat (28 degress, 70 percent humidity) really affected my perfomance in a race. At the start I thought my legs were going to go out from underneath me. I eventually got a roll on, but my times per km were 20 to 30 seconds slower than usual! This has really diminished my confidence in racing.

There are other races coming up in January and February. After Thursday's performance I don't think I'll get a very good idea of how my times are improving if at all. To be honest I'm looking forward to autumn and winter, and hope to get a better indicator of how my times are going then.

[Swaggers]

Quote

Running with a flannel tucked into my shorts helps to clear the sweat from the eyes.

Bellthorpe, on Jan 16 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

You have eyes in your bum?

Bellthorpe. You might think that it is too absurd to be offensive but it has just been discovered that
having eyes in your bum is indeed an evolutionary response amongst bogans and that straight ultra runner. Handy attribute for all straight Six-Foot Track competitors.

You do have an eye for detail Bellthorpe and you often crack me up. Given your incredible resume and life experiences (I dug some of it up) I always try to read your posts . Keep it up

The thing I don't like about the heat and humidity (apart from the heat and humidity) is you have to run without a shirt on. Then you have to be careful not to get burnt. I have had a few cancers removed and those adds on TV scare the bejeezers out of people. What is one to do? Wait for a rainy day? Take care out there drink, drink and drink (water) and apply sunscreen and all the rest of it.

Edited by Swaggers, 21 January 2009 - 01:00 PM.

[Peterhorse]

as my father-in-law often says (he works in the sun in central qld) "nothing like a bit of seat running down the crack of your behind to let you know you're in the tropics" no flannel for him.

i'm of the understanding that heat training over a period of sufficient period of time (i.e. not just a few runs) creates the stimulus for increased blood plasma volume, presumably to improve the efficiency of cooling mechanism. which i presume is then a benefit coming into the cooler months? dunno. sounds ok. i know the fastest time we did on a same route mid week 17k run, by 4 minutes, also happened to be the coldest morning 2 winters ago, and a dry westerly breeze blowing. never got near that time before or since. hardly a valid experiement but we put it down to these factors at the time.

[Swaggers]

PH. When I go down south for a run, it is like runner heaven compared to Brissy. I was in Adelaide recently and at the end of my Tuesday session I could have handled a few more. Up here I am glad to head off home. I don't know maybe it was just the stimulus of new surroundings. Anyway I felt a lot better.

Long- term effects?
I reckon the stress of training in the heat would cancel any gains. I love Brissy.

[Paul Every]

julz83, on Jan 8 2009, 03:10 PM, said:

the humidity definately makes a difference. i have just got back to brisbane after being in perth for 3 weeks. it gets hot in perth but it's a dry heat, i think it was 35 deg there yesterday and im definately feeling the brissie humidity here today.

I totally agree about the effects of humidity.

18 months ago I stopped for a short run in Death Valley when we driving through to Utah. It was 49C in the shade, and Satan knows how hot out in the radiated heat from the black road in the direct sun. But, it was a dry heat and with plenty of water going into and onto the body it wasn't an unpleasant run.

It didn't inspire me to run Badwater though.

[Andolate]

All I can say again is damn the heat,

Although its nothing like you tough nuts who enjoy the sun melting your brain I ran this morning. 27 degrees at 5.30 am and did 12klm @avg 5.13. It was probably tougher than the 22 klm I did in Sunday but I have one question???

Was the fatigue I was feeling brought about beacuse of my higher heart rate ( avg 170) which in turn would have caused the build up of lactic acid quicker? The feeling I had at about 10 k today was similar to being at the 20klm mark on my 22 run sunday.

I hope someone can answer this for me! Thanks


Andolate

[run2work]

Andolate, on Jan 22 2009, 07:44 AM, said:

All I can say again is damn the heat,

Although its nothing like you tough nuts who enjoy the sun melting your brain I ran this morning. 27 degrees at 5.30 am and did 12klm @avg 5.13. It was probably tougher than the 22 klm I did in Sunday but I have one question???

Was the fatigue I was feeling brought about beacuse of my higher heart rate ( avg 170) which in turn would have caused the build up of lactic acid quicker? The feeling I had at about 10 k today was similar to being at the 20klm mark on my 22 run sunday.

I hope someone can answer this for me! Thanks


Andolate

I suspect you are right to say that your high heart rate is the cause of your fatigue. Did you have any post run muscle soreness?

As well as the heat/humidity causing a higher heart rate, dehydration further contributes to that process. Something happens to the blood plasma, thickens it if I can recall from previous reading, making it harder for the heart to pump the blood around the body, and therefore having to go at a faster rate.

I have heard for every litre of fluid one has lost, ones heart beats 8 beats faster per minute. I am sure that this figure varies a lot, but it is interesting, and something to be aware of when trying to run fast!


r2w

[Andolate]

run2work, on Jan 22 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

I suspect you are right to say that your high heart rate is the cause of your fatigue. Did you have any post run muscle soreness?

As well as the heat/humidity causing a higher heart rate, dehydration further contributes to that process. Something happens to the blood plasma, thickens it if I can recall from previous reading, making it harder for the heart to pump the blood around the body, and therefore having to go at a faster rate.

I have heard for every litre of fluid one has lost, ones heart beats 8 beats faster per minute. I am sure that this figure varies a lot, but it is interesting, and something to be aware of when trying to run fast!


r2w

Thanks R2W,

No muscle soreness. I also would not normally take water with me for 12klms but I did today. ( the 8oz bottle from my fuel belt). i also had a large glass of staminade before I left. I could not say if it was dehydration, mu urine was slightly yellow but not far off being the clear.

Any ideas on the Lactic Acid query as a result of working harder due to higher heart rate? I can also add my legs felt tired towards the end, similar again to my weekend long run. This could be a result of increase in my training klms though...


Cheers,

Andolate

Edited by Andolate, 22 January 2009 - 10:02 AM.

[SpartaJen]

Another tip I learnt when walking the Kokoda Track last year was to place a wet Buff around your neck. When it starts to dry off, just spin it around & often you will still find a wet/cool patch; it makes a huge difference.

[TechGirl]

Andolate, on Jan 22 2009, 06:44 AM, said:

Was the fatigue I was feeling brought about beacuse of my higher heart rate ( avg 170) which in turn would have caused the build up of lactic acid quicker? The feeling I had at about 10 k today was similar to being at the 20klm mark on my 22 run sunday.

The higher heart rate is brought about by the need to dissipate heat (increased blood supply to skin and sweat glands) while still needing to supply blood to your muscles. In other words one needs a higher cardiac output when running in the heat. The high heart rate wouldn't contribute to an accumulation of lactate, but could indicate that your body was stuggling to meet all of its needs. You may have had to recruit a few more type II muscle fibres in order to maintain your speed, which could then see increased production of lactate. The more you train in the heat, the more your body adjusts by increasing plasma volume (to help increase cardiac output); lowering the sweating threshold; and also making sweating more efficient (i.e. increase sweating rate and sweat distribution). In theory if you do moderate training in the heat (something like 50%VO2max or ~70% HR max over a 2 week period, in temps around 30C resulting in sweating volumes of 400-600 ml per hour, your body should acclimate. There is a lot of individual variation, some cope better than others. I am coping better now after some training in the heat, I can't say it ever feels comfortable and I can't wait until it gets cooler!

Happy trails

techgirl