13 replies to this topic

[RHCP26]

Just wondering if there is alot of truth in the difference between surfaces (road, Track and grass) in regards to impact injuries.

Being that speed sessions can be the hardest on joints and stress injuries would it make much difference if you train say 1 of 2 of your weekly speed sessions on track instead of both on the road?

[clanrunner]

I don't know that much about the science of this (best to leave that to the physios etc here) but I never do speedwork on the road. I prefer to do it off-road as I find it easier on the joints. Doing speedwork on grass etc is tougher and you don't go so fast, but it can be good for strength building. I like to do speedwork on the track now and then too if I've the opportunity, so I can actually feel the speed! But never on the road.

[Ewen]

Yes. I know more than one runner who's developed stress fractures doing speedwork on an all-weather 400m track (admittedly running in spikes).

A good compromise is a grass 400m track - schools often have grass tracks. Failing that, my choice would be to find some smooth, short, even grass somewhere - maybe a golf course early in the morning or late in the evening.

My second choice would be a soft dirt trail, or a smooth flat dirt road (no camber).

[M12]

I do all my speed work on a grass track. Now and again I might go out on a trail or road for it.

[clanrunner]

Ironkid94, on Jan 24 2009, 06:54 AM, said:

if you don't have the right pair of shoes. Buy a pair of $200 Ascis ( With the high heel )

If it suits your feet and gait. If not, wear a shoe that does. Asics are good if they're good for you, but they're not for everyone.

[RHCP26]

Thanks everyone,

I have taken all of what you say onboard. It's a pity the running groups I have joined all do there speed session on the road, crazy stuff really, considering like Ewen says there are schools everywhere.. I have tried grass on my own but my willpower doesnt allow me to train very hard or for very long and I get nowhere. I definatley need to train with someone else like me on a softer surface and stay the hell off the road until race time. That may be harder than I think but I might post a message in a months time looking for someone like me in Brissy.

I have visited Intraining in Brissy and been prescribed a shoe by a podiatrist and have orthoses, so all those boxes are ticked.

I appreciate your great input

[YoyoPete]

Hi Ironkid94, thanks for advice. Although I have been running for a while but most of time I run on treadmil rather
a hard court or road I should say. I will now run on grass rather than hard one now...

thanks

[bruncle]

If you're going to be racing on the road, then you should train on the road at least some of the time. If you build up to it, then there's no big issue with running on asphalt. People get stress fractures running on grass too...

[DoggieDoctor]

I'm in Brissy and I can't find any grass that is less than 6 inches. i would need to bring a mower with me as the grass is growing faster than I have ever seen. Amazing what a bit of rain will do.

[RHCP26]

bruncle, on Mar 4 2009, 02:48 AM, said:

If you're going to be racing on the road, then you should train on the road at least some of the time. If you build up to it, then there's no big issue with running on asphalt. People get stress fractures running on grass too...

It's funny that I completely agree. It turns out that my problem is when the foot leaves the ground not when it hits. Basically it might not even matter what surface I run on.

[seagull]

I have a theory.

There is landing and push off...

Consider concrete, asphalt. grass and sand running.

On landing I would think worst to best in impact would be:
concrete, asphalt, sand, grass

On push off most use of the muscles would be:
sand, grass, concrete, asphalt.

(I am more prone to injury start of XC season on grass, I think its
the push off - of course grass also tends to be uneven so you
have to use your stability muscles more)

I'm guessing, but hey, my foot has hit the ground a few times, and I certainly notice that
on some surfaces it gives more energy back than on others and I dont think that it is
irrelevant.

I agree with bruncle though, I certainly notice that I adapt to different surfaces through training.
Building up gradually seems to be the trick.

My 2c. What do other people think?

[Freesoul]

I reckon 'impact' is all about the way you run, not the surface you're running on. Grass may feel softer than concrete, but as seagull said, you've got to push off out of it.

If you listen to your body (best way is barefooted and I'm unashamedly biased), you will learn to bend your knees more (this absorbs much more impact than any cushioned chunky-heeled shoe will ever do), land on your midfoot and lift your feet up quicker, thus running more efficiently.

Check out pose running, chi running and runningbarefoot.org

I reckon you should do speed sessions on a variety of surfaces. The trouble with speed sessions is that technique often goes out the window when you're tired and want to meet certain time goals (and beat certain other runners doing the same session). Maybe every second week you could train with others, and the alternate week you could concentrate on technique whilst doing speedwork on grass/dirt hills/synthetic track etc.

[HPcoach]

Freesoul, on Apr 13 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

I reckon 'impact' is all about the way you run, not the surface you're running on. Grass may feel softer than concrete, but as seagull said, you've got to push off out of it.

If you listen to your body (best way is barefooted and I'm unashamedly biased), you will learn to bend your knees more (this absorbs much more impact than any cushioned chunky-heeled shoe will ever do), land on your midfoot and lift your feet up quicker, thus running more efficiently.
Dr
Check out pose running, chi running and runningbarefoot.org

I reckon you should do speed sessions on a variety of surfaces. The trouble with speed sessions is that technique often goes out the window when you're tired and want to meet certain time goals (and beat certain other runners doing the same session). Maybe every second week you could train with others, and the alternate week you could concentrate on technique whilst doing speedwork on grass/dirt hills/synthetic track etc.

i tend to agree with you that impact is about how you run but the surface also makes a big diff also, grass running the best way to avoid injury but you need to get used to it and watch out for the holes!

Pose running is a great form of running, i agree on most of the concepts and have worked closed with Dr Romanov.

Re your speed sessions, mix it up..grass and road.

[HPcoach]

clanrunner, on Jan 24 2009, 10:23 PM, said:

If it suits your feet and gait. If not, wear a shoe that does. Asics are good if they're good for you, but they're not for everyone.

I gree with 'Clanrunner', don't buy a shoe for the brand, try diff brands and find one that fits. Asics are great, i was sponsored by Asics for years but now changed over to Saucony, why/ they fit me better!. go for the fit not the brand!..even though Saucony are great shoes!