11 replies to this topic

[Sorrento]

Hi, I've been looking around for a couple of weeks, but this is my first post.

I am pretty new to triathlons (I have done the BRW in April last year and I have signed up for Mooloolaba at the end of March) and I just wanted to ask a question about the triathlon training approach.

Basically it seems that most training program consist of training each of the disciplines separately with a bike run session thrown in.

I have done a Marathon before (only 1, Gold Coast in 2006) and the approach to training was to do short(er) distances 3 or 4 times a week followed by a long run on Sunday. Increasing the Sunday run by 10% per week (or fortnight) until 2-3 weeks out from the event.

I know that it would be impossible to do little training triathlons several times a week and swimming really needs a different kind of training approach. But what about the Bike/Run part? At least for the Sunday long distance.

I just can't get a long run and a long ride and a brick session in each week. I can really only train for 40 minutes each day (run or swim) during my 1 hour lunch break) and I can slip in 30minutes on the wind trainer at night time if I am lucky.

So I have been doing a 10k run on Saturday morning leaving Sunday for my long distance ride and/or brick session. I have decided that I will simply use my Sunday to do a Ride/Run until I hit 80-90% of the ride/run distance. So in mid-march, 2 weeks out from the event I need to do about a 35km ride and 8 or 9k run together. I just need to be increasing 10% per week to get there.

I guess my question is, is there anything wrong with that approach that is going to bring me undone. It just seems that everywhere I look, the training approach seems different, but I can't see why (from an endurance point of view) training for a triathlon or a marathon should be much different. (I guess that the swim will leave me down on energy that I need to be aware of on the day, at least nutrition wise).

I hope that makes sense, and my question is clear, I rewrote the post several times.

[TynoMite]

I really noticed it the first time I did a swim/bike/run session.
I was amazed how much the swim affected my bike and consequently my run.
If you're pressed for time, try fitting in a ride to&from the pool.
Doesn't have to be far, just gets you used to riding after swimming.
Most Tri training plans build your base in all 3 disciplines first, then work on your endurance for each leg, then taper towards the end.
The Bike/Run sessions are important to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are still in cycling mode.
I'd say if you can do a brick that's 80% of race distances, you should be fine, as long as you don't try to kill yourself in the swim.
M'ba also has a fair distance run from the swim exit to transition, so the swim/jog aspect is there as well. Or you could walk like me

[Peterhorse]

Hi Sorrento, welcome to CR!

I think your approach is fine and actually will be a fair bit more than i do for Mooloolaba - which is simply due to time and the work, family, life, training balance. The bike/run bricks are the more important. T1 is more about getting changed quickly and onto your bike. The first 1-2k of the run feels weird so practicing that as much as you have suggested will be very beneficial. I don't know what the experts think but i don't think the run you do in a brick session doesn't need to be long if you are doing other running. When i get into bricks a bit more over the next 6 weeks, i'll do anything from 1k to 6k off the bike, especially off the wind trainer at home.

A different but important issue i've learned is about how much the bike leg influences my run leg. if i do the bike at full capacity, my run leg is poor, but a 90-05% effort on the bike leg and the run is much better. At Noosa, i 'wasted' all my run training and had a shocker becasue i went for it on the bike and hadn't done enough brick sessions.

Swimming? Well..I just have trouble dragging myself to the pool and so i don't do much at all, maybe 6-10 sessions in March to get the arms used to it. It's a problem (in my head)

Will be there in the pack somewehere. Have a good race. It's a great weekend.

cheers

PH

[walker1st]

the tri pros do lots of racing , so for them teh race situation - the triple brick is nothing new comes the most important race - here the saying that the race is best training session is probably very true.

for teh funtriathlete - doing just 1 or so races per year, the situation is very different and teh race must feel very strange on the body for many reasons.

so any race simulation You can get is good, whatever way You can organize it.

I would say than even saturday 10k run - do first at least 30 minutes of increasingly hard ride so start running with stuffed quads.

and if nothing else take a shower or bath at home dressed in full racing gear and run of the house
jump on teh bike and ride around the block, than jump of the bike and run around teh blcok with teh compulsory change of shoes and putting on the helmet sunglases and the lot, it can be done in 10 minutes, never mind the neighbours, this can be Your regular evening shower routine .

[Sorrento]

Thanks guys, it's always good to get some extra opinions.

I certainly had a rush of blood in the 400m swim in the BRW last year, so won't be making that mistake again (hopefully!).

The bike is a bit of an unknown for me. I have only done 600km on my road bike, that's in the last 2 years and it's also the grand total of all km I've ever done on a bike with gears. Previous bike experience was my free spirit dragster 20 years ago - fun times! I actually feel like I am having trouble really pushing on the bike, I am kinda holding a gear fairly comfortably but the next one up is impossible. So, so far, I haven't really had very dead legs, and the runs have been a lot better than I had expected given the amount of talk about brick sessions and how important they are.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated. I am starting to look forward to the event now, a few weeks ago when I pushed the "sign me up" button, I wasn't so sure.

[TynoMite]

Sorrento, on Feb 9 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

I actually feel like I am having trouble really pushing on the bike, I am kinda holding a gear fairly comfortably but the next one up is impossible. So, so far, I haven't really had very dead legs, and the runs have been a lot better than I had expected given the amount of talk about brick sessions and how important they are.

I know that feeling well, seemingly cruising in 1 gear, try to go 1 harder and it feels like you can hardly pedal. Only time on the bike will help you there I think.
I was also surprised how "easy" my first brick sessions were. I'm finding them alot harder now that my run fitness is down though.

[Peterhorse]

Hi Sorrento
like yourself i hadn't ridden a bike for over 20 years and had never used gears before getting my road bike for tri training. i'm still doing more km's running per month than riding so that's how little i do compared to the serious folks. however, one of the best things i got as a tip was to get a cadence counter put on the bike and make sure i was spinning not grinding, and just keep changing gears accordingly. for me spinning comfortbaly is 90-105 rpm, grinding is less than 90, give or take a bit for the terrain and road surface. my legs die in about 5mins if i grind, but you can use the spinning to get a lot more out of them, also make you spin at higer cadence for the last 500m coming into T2. seems to get eh stind out of the legs ready to run.
cheers
PH

[walker1st]

PH, that is great point and teh most important, I would even suggest higher numbers.

teh skills learned are transferable to runnig and teh idea should be also transfered to running.

[Sorrento]

Thanks guys. Yep, I had already been doing the 90rpm thing. Except that I thought once I got up to 95 maybe that was too fast so would attempt to change gears. Maybe I will just let my legs go faster on the next ride and see what happens. On my ride on Sunday I did just as PH suggested, dropped down a gear and spun faster to loosen up the legs in the last few undred meters.

I had previously read that running at 90 steps/min was meant to be good for efficiency too. I have short legs and I have occasionally counted my steps (more to give my mind something else to do than for any other good reason) and I am typically right on 90 steps per minute, it goes up a little if I am running faster.

I guess that when you look at the numbers you can see why it might help going from the bike to the run since you're running at the same speed as you were riding. If you end up pedalling at even higher numbers then I guess you get to feel like you're slowing down and taking it easy when you start the run. I will give the higher cadence a shot on Sunday and see what happens.

Edited by Sorrento, 10 February 2009 - 08:46 AM.

[Paul Every]

Sorrento, for someone with limited time to train, it appears to me that you have found an intelligent balance that will prepare you very well for an ODTri.

I wouldn't look at going for higher cadences than PH suggested. 95 to 105 is fine.

Perhaps the only suggestion I would make is to enter a shorter tri in the weeks before Mooloolaba. There is nothing like racing for a quality hit out and it will give you chance to go through race prep, transitions, open water swimming and all the other tri nuances in a real situation. That can only help to minimise the odds any glitches on the day of Mooloolaba and will also assist in making you feel relaxed and confident going into the race.

With a marathon experience and your well thought out preparation I'm sure you will get off the bike and work your way through the field. It is always a good feeling to be hunting down competitors in the final leg of the race.

We will be keen to hear how you do.

[Goughy]

Also look around for clubs that might hold club races. They hold them up my way (toowoomba) and only cost $10 for members for a 400mtr/21k/5.2k tri with electronic timing.

The one thing I've learned from my training group and from my first tri (at that club) is that the swim is nothing. I had people swim 2 to 3 minutes slower than me but flog me in the end. So take it nice and easy on the swim and don't kill yourself. 40k bike and 10k run is heaps to make up lost swim time - and if you go too hard on the swim you'll leave yourself short on the others.

Our tri training does a lot of swim/run bricks too. But I usually try and get a 1 to 2hr ride in on sundays and often run 2 to 3miles afterwards just to get the legs used to it. It took half my run for my legs to feel normal when I did my tri.

Oh, and you'll be fine! It's all fun remember...

[Sorrento]

When I did the BRW i had swim plans. Breath alternate sides every 3 strokes, smooth comfortable paces etc. But the water was only a foot deep for about 100 metres and when the gun went off I became a white 5'6 Osafa Powell. By the time I was swimming I needed to breath alternate sides alright, ever single stroke! This was the rush of blood I eluded to above. Everything I had learned about endurance and pacing myself had gone out the window. When I got out of the water I could hardly stand up, let alone run up the boat ramp, put on bike shoes and run in sand. I can only hope that I am not that stupid next time!

I guess that at the moment I am in it to COMPLETE it, not to COMPETE in it. This was our (I had a group of mates) goal when we did the Marathon. We had a secondary goal of a particular time that we felt we would comfortably achieve but, especially since it was our first, the primary goal was simply to finish without walking.

For that reason the training simply aimed at building up the distance. A lot of training plans seem to be TIME based but we opted for distance based. We couldn't see how a longest run of 2.5 hours was going to get us through a 4 hour event. We trained up to 37km a few weeks out so that on the actual day all we had to do was go for 30 minutes longer than we ever had before. At this point energy became more of a problem than fitness (ie the wall, or in my case on the day a man hole cover that I managed to trip and roll over - you know how high those things stick up out of the ground - obviously I wasn't lifting my feet around 35km).

I am by myself now (no one else will do the swim!) but I am using a similar approach. So I guess that my theory is if I can train my ride run together up to the full distance (or thereabouts) I should have the fitness covered. Then I only have the 30minute swim as extra energy expenditure on the day. I guess that the reason for my post was to get some other opinions on that theory (which I have receive thanks to all of you), especially since most of the training programs I have looked at (for beginners at least) seem to mostly focus on the 3 disciplines individually with shorter brick sessions.

I guess that what it's not really doing is making me a better cycler, not training past the distance as you likely would for a run. But as I mentioned before I don't have time for the longer sessions. I guess that I don't need to do the Bike/Run every week, or I can vary the distance proportions to keep the time approximately the same.

I might as well show my training plan since I've all but stated exactly what I am doing anyway.

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Lunch time - Running Efforts/Fartlek/Interval whatever you want to call it 6k total
Wednesday - Lunch time - 2k of swimming - whatever I can fit in 40 minutes. Night time 30 minutes Wind Trainer (Intervals, One leg etc)
Thursday - Lunch time - 6k easy run - Night Time 30 minutes Wind Trainer (solid pace, trying to simulate a ride)
Friday - Lunch Time - 2k of swimming - Night Time (carbo loading via Pizza and Bourbon, lucky I am my own coach!)
Saturday - 5am 10/12k run hopefully home before kids get up (and wife misses sleep in!)
Sunday - Ride/Run starting 8AM. As I mentioned above gradually increasing distances up to 40k/10k (or thereabouts) mid March. I also think that the time of day should be comparable to the actual event (at least ball park), if anything it will be earlier and cooler.

I'll admit that I am enjoying the variety. I usually just run at lunch time and never do anything on the weekend. Breaks up the work day nicely, but I haven't really had anything to train for. Using the program above I am only taking 2 x 30 mins of family time during the week (but can still talk to the kids, albeit a bit laboured) and 2-2.5 or so on Sunday morning. Just needed to know if I was on the right track, even if my approach is different (at least appears to be) to the "norm".

Thanks again for the comments.