Hello,
My first post so a bit of a background and a few questions.
I'm 36 and have now been running regularly for a bit over a year. I started running when a co-worker suggested I join him in the Adelaide City to Bay (12km) fun run which I completed in approx 56 min. My main fitness apart from running is Taekwondo which I have been doing for over 10 years ranging between 2 and 4 times per week.
I am now trying to balance the TKD and running, so I train TKD twice per week and run twice per week. Most days that I don't run I will walk my dog about 4km.
I want to get my running up to half marathon distance which is where I need some advice/thoughts from you.
I currently train TKD on Mon and Fri nights. Training is 1hr30 and can be pretty hard on the legs, lots of high kicking, jumping, stretching, etc. IE I don't think its something people would recommend as x-training for running, but TKD came first so I won't be changing that. My available nights for TKD are Mon Wed Fri.
Running I currently do an 8-12 km run on Wednesday night, ranging between easy and tempo pace depending on how I feel (I'm not trying to follow a 'training plan' at the moment). Sunday I run with a group and try to use this as my long run. Last week was my longest at 16km.
My first problem is my long run. I am fine to run on a Sunday after a rest day on Saturday, however TKD on Monday night can be tough. I am thinking about shifting the long run to Wednesday night when the weather cools down a bit. I don't usually run until after sunset which currently means 9pm. I don't really want to finish running any later than 10pm. Wednesday would be good because I have the opportunity to rest both the night before and after the long run. Any thoughts?
Second question relates to 'recovery runs'. Does the walking I do at approx 9min/km, heart rate 110-120 count as a substitute for a recovery run? Due to my other training I am struggling to run, even recovery run speed on the days between TKD and my main runs. My legs need real rest.
The first half I want to do is at the start of May. At this stage I don't plan to take time off TKD to focus on running, therefore my objective is just to participate, hopefully running a sub 5min/km half. I say that to emphasise that I don't want to try to follow any of the standard half marathon training plans. I just want to find the right balance for my existing two runs.
At this stage I think I can keep extending my long run all the way up to half marathon distance over the next 8 weeks. Would you suggest my other run should stay relative to my long run? IE as my long run gets longer my regular run also gets longer or just keep that at 1hr or less?
To summarise, I am looking for idea's on how you would balance the above training requirements given the circumstances.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Lachlan
0
Training BalanceTraining for a half with only 2 runs per week.
Started by lock73, Feb 14 2009 11:04 AM
8 replies to this topic
#1
-
- Forum Member
-
- 130 posts Joined: 27-January 09
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Golden Grove, Adelaide
Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:04 AM
Support our Australian advertisers:
#2
-
- Forum Member
-
- 1,083 posts Joined: 13-June 06
1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Kenmore, Qld
Posted 14 February 2009 - 12:55 PM
Hey Lachlan,
Welcome to Coolrunning.
First of all, you will be able to run a half marathon with the fitness and mental discipline from TKD, but as you already know- the training you propose isn't ideal.
If however you had to do it on 2 days a week, and you had a goal pace of 5 minute ks, I'd be trying to run the long runs at 5:15 minute ks, seeing if I could get them up to 23 ks. You could do that by adding 1k/week to your current long run of 16k.
Your other regular run needs to be faster than your goal pace by about 15 secs/k. You could still limit it to an hour, but get some quality pace in there. Different runs to play with include:-
A. the traditional tempo where you'd sandwich a 6-8k run at 4:45 pace with a 10-15min warmup/cooldown at each end.
B. a progression run whereby you steadily increase your pace throughout the run so that you might average 4:50ks over the whole run.
C. a fartlek session that involves alternating serious pace for 5 minute surges with 5 minute recoveries at steady pace.
Don't forget to allow a taper for 1-2 weeks before race day.
Others might have other ideas, but i reckon if you're only going to run twice a week, you need to maximise the time you spend running without breaks- thus choosing the above runs over intervals.
Goodluck, let's know how you do,
Funrunner aka craig
Welcome to Coolrunning.
First of all, you will be able to run a half marathon with the fitness and mental discipline from TKD, but as you already know- the training you propose isn't ideal.
If however you had to do it on 2 days a week, and you had a goal pace of 5 minute ks, I'd be trying to run the long runs at 5:15 minute ks, seeing if I could get them up to 23 ks. You could do that by adding 1k/week to your current long run of 16k.
Your other regular run needs to be faster than your goal pace by about 15 secs/k. You could still limit it to an hour, but get some quality pace in there. Different runs to play with include:-
A. the traditional tempo where you'd sandwich a 6-8k run at 4:45 pace with a 10-15min warmup/cooldown at each end.
B. a progression run whereby you steadily increase your pace throughout the run so that you might average 4:50ks over the whole run.
C. a fartlek session that involves alternating serious pace for 5 minute surges with 5 minute recoveries at steady pace.
Don't forget to allow a taper for 1-2 weeks before race day.
Others might have other ideas, but i reckon if you're only going to run twice a week, you need to maximise the time you spend running without breaks- thus choosing the above runs over intervals.
Goodluck, let's know how you do,
Funrunner aka craig
#3
-
- Forum Member
-
- 985 posts Joined: 28-November 08
almost a 1000-club gold-rated CoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Brisbane
Posted 14 February 2009 - 01:00 PM
Welcome to CR Lachlan!
Sounds to me that you're listening to your body, and that's important. It doesn't matter what day you do your long run, most people do it on the weekend because that's when most people have the time. I do it on a Sunday because I need to find 3hrs, but if you're good to go on Wednesday, then great!
As for your recovery, I don't know the technical bits and pieces, but I'd suggest running REALLY slowly, like at the same pace - 9mins/km if you can. It took me ages to slow myself down, and now I can manage 8min/km pace running. It will feel like you should just walk, but give it a shot.
I ran a half-marathon without any particular plan, I just ran a few times a week with a long run once a week too. So you can do it this way. Running 12km in 56 minutes is good going (I couldn't even run that fast yet) so I think you'll have no problems running a HM with a bit of training with progressively longer long runs. The "golden" rule is to increase week to week by no more than 10%.
So... good luck!
Sounds to me that you're listening to your body, and that's important. It doesn't matter what day you do your long run, most people do it on the weekend because that's when most people have the time. I do it on a Sunday because I need to find 3hrs, but if you're good to go on Wednesday, then great!
As for your recovery, I don't know the technical bits and pieces, but I'd suggest running REALLY slowly, like at the same pace - 9mins/km if you can. It took me ages to slow myself down, and now I can manage 8min/km pace running. It will feel like you should just walk, but give it a shot.
I ran a half-marathon without any particular plan, I just ran a few times a week with a long run once a week too. So you can do it this way. Running 12km in 56 minutes is good going (I couldn't even run that fast yet) so I think you'll have no problems running a HM with a bit of training with progressively longer long runs. The "golden" rule is to increase week to week by no more than 10%.
So... good luck!
#4
-
- Forum Member
-
- 178 posts Joined: 14-April 08
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Sydney
Posted 14 February 2009 - 02:51 PM
Hey lock,
I'm the same age as you and a year ago I had a similar dilemma- trying to work out a training plan for a half on only 2 runs a week. Here is what I did:
1. 3-7 km tempo run with a few k's warm up and cool down or a steady state run a bit longer at least 10s/km slower than tempo pace.
2. Long run about a minute per k slower than 10k race pace.
The problem with this plan is that at no time are you just doing a run which you can just relax and enjoy. You are either going fast or long. After reading a book which suggested to make significant gains you need at least 3 runs a week I gave it a go (just threw an easy run in) and within 7 weeks my 10k PB went from 45:55 to 43:01.
Based on my limited experience I'd try and throw another run in, done at an easy pace perhaps a 20min jog after TKD and go from there?
As for the timing of your long run. How do you feel on Saturday? Do you think you can do your long run then and rest on Sunday? At the moment I am trialing doing a tempo run on Sat and the Longrun on Sunday which would be similar to TKD on Fri and a longrun on Sat. I've only just started so I can't provide feedback but I reckon it would be better than a Sunday LR and TKD on Monday. However if you can rehydrate and sleep easy after a LR on Wed then why not?
Recovery runs? I might get blasted for this but I think unless you're running over 80km a week and doing a lot of speed sessions you don't need them during general training, after a race yes.
CPI
I'm the same age as you and a year ago I had a similar dilemma- trying to work out a training plan for a half on only 2 runs a week. Here is what I did:
1. 3-7 km tempo run with a few k's warm up and cool down or a steady state run a bit longer at least 10s/km slower than tempo pace.
2. Long run about a minute per k slower than 10k race pace.
The problem with this plan is that at no time are you just doing a run which you can just relax and enjoy. You are either going fast or long. After reading a book which suggested to make significant gains you need at least 3 runs a week I gave it a go (just threw an easy run in) and within 7 weeks my 10k PB went from 45:55 to 43:01.
Based on my limited experience I'd try and throw another run in, done at an easy pace perhaps a 20min jog after TKD and go from there?
As for the timing of your long run. How do you feel on Saturday? Do you think you can do your long run then and rest on Sunday? At the moment I am trialing doing a tempo run on Sat and the Longrun on Sunday which would be similar to TKD on Fri and a longrun on Sat. I've only just started so I can't provide feedback but I reckon it would be better than a Sunday LR and TKD on Monday. However if you can rehydrate and sleep easy after a LR on Wed then why not?
Recovery runs? I might get blasted for this but I think unless you're running over 80km a week and doing a lot of speed sessions you don't need them during general training, after a race yes.
CPI
Edited by CantPaceIt, 14 February 2009 - 02:55 PM.
#5
-
- Forum Member
-
- 130 posts Joined: 27-January 09
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Golden Grove, Adelaide
Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:36 PM
funrunner63, on Feb 14 2009, 12:25 PM, said:
Hey Lachlan,
Welcome to Coolrunning.
First of all, you will be able to run a half marathon with the fitness and mental discipline from TKD, but as you already know- the training you propose isn't ideal.
If however you had to do it on 2 days a week, and you had a goal pace of 5 minute ks, I'd be trying to run the long runs at 5:15 minute ks, seeing if I could get them up to 23 ks. You could do that by adding 1k/week to your current long run of 16k.
Your other regular run needs to be faster than your goal pace by about 15 secs/k. You could still limit it to an hour, but get some quality pace in there. Different runs to play with include:-
A. the traditional tempo where you'd sandwich a 6-8k run at 4:45 pace with a 10-15min warmup/cooldown at each end.
B. a progression run whereby you steadily increase your pace throughout the run so that you might average 4:50ks over the whole run.
C. a fartlek session that involves alternating serious pace for 5 minute surges with 5 minute recoveries at steady pace.
Don't forget to allow a taper for 1-2 weeks before race day.
Others might have other ideas, but i reckon if you're only going to run twice a week, you need to maximise the time you spend running without breaks- thus choosing the above runs over intervals.
Goodluck, let's know how you do,
Funrunner aka craig
Welcome to Coolrunning.
First of all, you will be able to run a half marathon with the fitness and mental discipline from TKD, but as you already know- the training you propose isn't ideal.
If however you had to do it on 2 days a week, and you had a goal pace of 5 minute ks, I'd be trying to run the long runs at 5:15 minute ks, seeing if I could get them up to 23 ks. You could do that by adding 1k/week to your current long run of 16k.
Your other regular run needs to be faster than your goal pace by about 15 secs/k. You could still limit it to an hour, but get some quality pace in there. Different runs to play with include:-
A. the traditional tempo where you'd sandwich a 6-8k run at 4:45 pace with a 10-15min warmup/cooldown at each end.
B. a progression run whereby you steadily increase your pace throughout the run so that you might average 4:50ks over the whole run.
C. a fartlek session that involves alternating serious pace for 5 minute surges with 5 minute recoveries at steady pace.
Don't forget to allow a taper for 1-2 weeks before race day.
Others might have other ideas, but i reckon if you're only going to run twice a week, you need to maximise the time you spend running without breaks- thus choosing the above runs over intervals.
Goodluck, let's know how you do,
Funrunner aka craig
Thanks Craig
I need to SLOW down on my long run. The 16 I ran at 4:42/km and really paid for it later in the week. Must try to run at approx 5:10 t 5:30/km
As for my other run, I will try your ideas. I have done a bit of fartlek withing 10km runs but on average just run a constant pace depending on how I feel. I'll try to set out a goal for the given run with your suggestions in mind.
Definitely will taper, I often go too hard and leave myself flat for one session or another.
Cheers
Lachlan
#6
-
- Forum Member
-
- 130 posts Joined: 27-January 09
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Golden Grove, Adelaide
Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:47 PM
flyingemu, on Feb 14 2009, 12:30 PM, said:
Welcome to CR Lachlan!
Sounds to me that you're listening to your body, and that's important. It doesn't matter what day you do your long run, most people do it on the weekend because that's when most people have the time. I do it on a Sunday because I need to find 3hrs, but if you're good to go on Wednesday, then great!
As for your recovery, I don't know the technical bits and pieces, but I'd suggest running REALLY slowly, like at the same pace - 9mins/km if you can. It took me ages to slow myself down, and now I can manage 8min/km pace running. It will feel like you should just walk, but give it a shot.
I ran a half-marathon without any particular plan, I just ran a few times a week with a long run once a week too. So you can do it this way. Running 12km in 56 minutes is good going (I couldn't even run that fast yet) so I think you'll have no problems running a HM with a bit of training with progressively longer long runs. The "golden" rule is to increase week to week by no more than 10%.
So... good luck!
Sounds to me that you're listening to your body, and that's important. It doesn't matter what day you do your long run, most people do it on the weekend because that's when most people have the time. I do it on a Sunday because I need to find 3hrs, but if you're good to go on Wednesday, then great!
As for your recovery, I don't know the technical bits and pieces, but I'd suggest running REALLY slowly, like at the same pace - 9mins/km if you can. It took me ages to slow myself down, and now I can manage 8min/km pace running. It will feel like you should just walk, but give it a shot.
I ran a half-marathon without any particular plan, I just ran a few times a week with a long run once a week too. So you can do it this way. Running 12km in 56 minutes is good going (I couldn't even run that fast yet) so I think you'll have no problems running a HM with a bit of training with progressively longer long runs. The "golden" rule is to increase week to week by no more than 10%.
So... good luck!
Thanks Emu,
Yes, running slow is hard, I struggle to slow my long runs down. I will try to 'Slow Run' my dog rather than just walking and see how I feel.
Definitely plan to keep the weekly increases to < 10%. I'm actually working on the 2km increase every 2 weeks theory with a lighter week in the middle.
Thanks for your contribution.
Regards
Lachlan
#7
-
- Forum Member
-
- 130 posts Joined: 27-January 09
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Golden Grove, Adelaide
Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:59 PM
CantPaceIt, on Feb 14 2009, 02:21 PM, said:
Hey lock,
I'm the same age as you and a year ago I had a similar dilemma- trying to work out a training plan for a half on only 2 runs a week. Here is what I did:
1. 3-7 km tempo run with a few k's warm up and cool down or a steady state run a bit longer at least 10s/km slower than tempo pace.
2. Long run about a minute per k slower than 10k race pace.
The problem with this plan is that at no time are you just doing a run which you can just relax and enjoy. You are either going fast or long. After reading a book which suggested to make significant gains you need at least 3 runs a week I gave it a go (just threw an easy run in) and within 7 weeks my 10k PB went from 45:55 to 43:01.
Based on my limited experience I'd try and throw another run in, done at an easy pace perhaps a 20min jog after TKD and go from there?
As for the timing of your long run. How do you feel on Saturday? Do you think you can do your long run then and rest on Sunday? At the moment I am trialing doing a tempo run on Sat and the Longrun on Sunday which would be similar to TKD on Fri and a longrun on Sat. I've only just started so I can't provide feedback but I reckon it would be better than a Sunday LR and TKD on Monday. However if you can rehydrate and sleep easy after a LR on Wed then why not?
Recovery runs? I might get blasted for this but I think unless you're running over 80km a week and doing a lot of speed sessions you don't need them during general training, after a race yes.
CPI
I'm the same age as you and a year ago I had a similar dilemma- trying to work out a training plan for a half on only 2 runs a week. Here is what I did:
1. 3-7 km tempo run with a few k's warm up and cool down or a steady state run a bit longer at least 10s/km slower than tempo pace.
2. Long run about a minute per k slower than 10k race pace.
The problem with this plan is that at no time are you just doing a run which you can just relax and enjoy. You are either going fast or long. After reading a book which suggested to make significant gains you need at least 3 runs a week I gave it a go (just threw an easy run in) and within 7 weeks my 10k PB went from 45:55 to 43:01.
Based on my limited experience I'd try and throw another run in, done at an easy pace perhaps a 20min jog after TKD and go from there?
As for the timing of your long run. How do you feel on Saturday? Do you think you can do your long run then and rest on Sunday? At the moment I am trialing doing a tempo run on Sat and the Longrun on Sunday which would be similar to TKD on Fri and a longrun on Sat. I've only just started so I can't provide feedback but I reckon it would be better than a Sunday LR and TKD on Monday. However if you can rehydrate and sleep easy after a LR on Wed then why not?
Recovery runs? I might get blasted for this but I think unless you're running over 80km a week and doing a lot of speed sessions you don't need them during general training, after a race yes.
CPI
Hi CPI
Your suggested running paces seem similar to what I 'should' be doing. You suggest trying to run at least 3 times per week. Do you also fit this in to other sporting activities? If so, how do you balance your running with the x-training?
I have thought about switching my long run to Saturday, just haven't tried it yet. The group I run with runs Sunday which is why I stick to that day. Must let go and try a Saturday for a change, I'm sure Monday night will feel so much better.
So maybe just 'walking' the dog is fine for recovery, I hope so.
Kind regards
Lachlan
#8
-
- Forum Member
-
- 178 posts Joined: 14-April 08
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Sydney
Posted 16 February 2009 - 10:25 AM
lock73, on Feb 14 2009, 08:59 PM, said:
Hi CPI
Your suggested running paces seem similar to what I 'should' be doing. You suggest trying to run at least 3 times per week. Do you also fit this in to other sporting activities? If so, how do you balance your running with the x-training?
I have thought about switching my long run to Saturday, just haven't tried it yet. The group I run with runs Sunday which is why I stick to that day. Must let go and try a Saturday for a change, I'm sure Monday night will feel so much better.
So maybe just 'walking' the dog is fine for recovery, I hope so.
Kind regards
Lachlan
Your suggested running paces seem similar to what I 'should' be doing. You suggest trying to run at least 3 times per week. Do you also fit this in to other sporting activities? If so, how do you balance your running with the x-training?
I have thought about switching my long run to Saturday, just haven't tried it yet. The group I run with runs Sunday which is why I stick to that day. Must let go and try a Saturday for a change, I'm sure Monday night will feel so much better.
So maybe just 'walking' the dog is fine for recovery, I hope so.
Kind regards
Lachlan
When I ran less, 1-2 times a week I did a lot of bodyweight strength work. These days I run 4 times a week. My job is very physical so now I don't really do any structured crosstraining, just mostly incidental stuff like riding my bike to the shops, taking two steps at a time on stairwells etc. Once a week I like to do some core work as well as pushups and chinups.
If you can't fit another run in don't worry about it, I didn't want to place doubt in your mind. My original intention in replying to your post was to reassure you that if you are fit to start with you can still run respectable times (just not at the pointy end) on a few runs a week.
I tried the LR the day after the tempo, it felt good. I get more Delayed onset muscle soreness from longruns than the faster runs so I think I'll continue with it.
CPI
#9
-
- Forum Member
-
- 431 posts Joined: 21-January 06
veryCoolRunner
- Gender:Male
- Location:Melbourne Australia
Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:19 AM
Lock, based on your 12k PB and the 16k long run, I don't think you'd have any trouble going out tomorrow and running a HM at 5:00/k. You've got the speed, endurance and power to do it easily. The only thing you can get from further training is confidence building and injury prevention. If you increase your long run up to 23k as was suggested by funrunner, you'll know that you can comfortably complete the distance and your muscles will also be used to running over 21.1k. I also like funrunner's other suggestion to make the second run a lactate threshold type workout. These are the most important thing you can do to lower your HM time. I think that if you get your long run up to 23k and consistently do a tempo run (15 mins warmup, 40 mins tempo pace as judged by McMillan's calculator 10 mins warmdown), then you'll be quite capable of finishing in a time beginning with 1:3x.
Of course you'd do better with more runs, but given your priorities, two hard workouts with plenty of recovery in between isn't that bad a solution. Definitely stick with the group run on Sunday. Running with other people always pulls you along to a higher performance than you'd achieve on your own.
The walking you do does help in my opinion. It strengthens your legs somewhat and hastens recovery. Replacing them with very slow runs could work but it might compromise your main workouts. Give it a try and see.
Of course you'd do better with more runs, but given your priorities, two hard workouts with plenty of recovery in between isn't that bad a solution. Definitely stick with the group run on Sunday. Running with other people always pulls you along to a higher performance than you'd achieve on your own.
The walking you do does help in my opinion. It strengthens your legs somewhat and hastens recovery. Replacing them with very slow runs could work but it might compromise your main workouts. Give it a try and see.
