Social Websites Damaging? Options

[Swaggers]

This is a bit dramatic but still worth considering and maybe discussing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...t.html?ITO=1490


Swagger.

This post has been edited by Swaggers: Mar 27 2009, 01:16 PM

[PsychoChicken]

i like this paragraph.....

'I often wonder whether real conversation in real time may eventually give way to these sanitised and easier screen dialogues, in much the same way as killing, skinning and butchering an animal to eat has been replaced by the convenience of packages of meat on the supermarket shelf,' she said.

and not having to catch our own food has made us fat. so stands to reason that social networking has an affect on our social skills.

i think social websites magnify everything. maybe we will all beocme drama queens.

[tim]

and not having to catch our own food has made us fat.

my food is just plants and they just sit there.

i think social websites magnify everything. maybe we will all beocme drama queens.

your talking about me aren't you! That is it I am deleting my facebook account. AGAIN!!



Actually I have thought about this for quite a while now which you guys would already know. I think it is easy to get caught up in a world where we are constantly stimulated. Where we are always somewhere else. We sit at coffee with our friends and take emails and sms's and calls. Always with someone other than the person next to you. We sit with a laptop on and the TV on whilst our children play xbox in another room. Many people now eat in front of the TV.

Never fully anywhere but everywhere. A bit like God. Maybe that is the goal - to become God like and omnipresent.

There is a term called "constant partial attention" which describes the above.

I am not sure if I like social networking but I am too scared of being left out to disconnect completely.

I was thinking about this in relation to birthdays. There are 4 levels of friends. Those that actually have a drink with you, those that call you up to say happy birthday, those that email you direct, and those that see your birthday on CR or facebook and drop you a wall post.


You just got to know when to turn it all off and talk to your family and friends.


i will tweet a link to this which also updates my facebook status and my friendfeed Living life on the edge baby!

[jasegroom]

An interesting topic, for sure, but anything printed in the Daily Mail should be taken with a good pinch of salt. It's not exactly the UK's most respectable journalistic publication.

[Swaggers]

An interesting topic, for sure, but anything printed in the Daily Mail should be taken with a good pinch of salt. It's not exactly the UK's most respectable journalistic publication.

This awkward ( I support the ABC).

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2009/s2521139.htm

Tim. Hmmmm.

Never fully anywhere but everywhere. A bit like God. Maybe that is the goal - to become God like and omnipresent.

There is a term called "constant partial attention" which describes the above

Does that explain this desire I have to wear my underpants on the outside?

Yeah, "constant partial attention". When the words of the people your are with become background noise and your thoughts are back on some website: that is dysfunctional and quiet sad really.


Cheers,
Swagger.

[plu]

:-)

[Colin]

Just what we need at school...less face to face interaction and dumbing down so that future work force can't deal with people at all.

The reality is that all commercial business rely on sales of product. Not all of this will be done online and even there you require customer service, back up, technical service etc.

A young girl came to the door this afternoon doing a marketing thing...one of those freebies that isn't really. Anyway, she couldn't even spell 'Colin' , several attempts and I ended up not correcting her anymore. When it came to street name, I didn't bother after one attempt...told her to get it off the sign.

Nice girl though...I'm sure her text, twitter and facebook skills are excellent.

When she left I told my daughter...you see a good example of why eduaction is important? I wonder what other sort of job that poor girl can do?

cheers

[plu]

Many agree with you Colin.

[Andolate]

my food is just plants and they just sit there.




your talking about me aren't you! That is it I am deleting my facebook account. AGAIN!!



Actually I have thought about this for quite a while now which you guys would already know. I think it is easy to get caught up in a world where we are constantly stimulated. Where we are always somewhere else. We sit at coffee with our friends and take emails and sms's and calls. Always with someone other than the person next to you. We sit with a laptop on and the TV on whilst our children play xbox in another room. Many people now eat in front of the TV.

Never fully anywhere but everywhere. A bit like God. Maybe that is the goal - to become God like and omnipresent.

There is a term called "constant partial attention" which describes the above.

I am not sure if I like social networking but I am too scared of being left out to disconnect completely.

I was thinking about this in relation to birthdays. There are 4 levels of friends. Those that actually have a drink with you, those that call you up to say happy birthday, those that email you direct, and those that see your birthday on CR or facebook and drop you a wall post.


You just got to know when to turn it all off and talk to your family and friends.


i will tweet a link to this which also updates my facebook status and my friendfeed Living life on the edge baby!

A further addition if I might is enjoying your own company. A very important aspect that I believe alot of people avoid by doing all of things listed in this post so far.

[Davo]

A further addition if I might is enjoying your own company. A very important aspect that I believe alot of people avoid by doing all of things listed in this post so far.

Yes, that's a very good point, Andolate. And that links in with another thread on coolrunning about getting bored on long runs. If you're happy with your own company you don't get bored on runs and you don't need to be texting or facebooking or whatever all the time.

[DoggieDoctor]

Some fantstic points here. I have been thinking about this for a while. I can't stand Facebook but I find I am spending far too much time on the CR website! I suppose not atrue social website as it actually supplies loads of useful info, but addictive non the less.

DE

[rachinaus]

Some fantstic points here. I have been thinking about this for a while. I can't stand Facebook but I find I am spending far too much time on the CR website! I suppose not atrue social website as it actually supplies loads of useful info, but addictive non the less.

DE

Me too - I was wondering recently whether that made me a hypocrite as I have never signed up to facebook and realistically have no intention of but check in here very regularly. CR however is (mostly) all about running. Does that mean I am just passionate about running but not passionate about poeple?

Maybe I am just anti social as I am happy to be left out if that is the consequence of not signing up.

I wonder though whether the quality of relationships will be affected by an increasing dependency on social networking sites as surely a wider network of acquaintances cannot translate into more meaningful friendships/relationships - just to difficult to maintain.

Since one of the often cited foundations for happiness is meaningful relationships (with friends and family) then is there a risk that a fundamental change in the way we interact with people that takes away the 'meaningful' will lead to a more unhappy society (if such a thing could exist these days).

At the end of the day though, I don't want eveyone to know everything about me - and I am certainly not interested in the minutiae of everyone else's life - especially people I haven't met (thanks but no thanks Ashton Kutcher's tweets).

Interesting topic

Cheers

[jaydee1]

At the end of the day though, I don't want eveyone to know everything about me - and I am certainly not interested in the minutiae of everyone else's life - especially people I haven't met (thanks but no thanks Ashton Kutcher's tweets).

Interesting topic

Cheers
[/quote]


have any of you read the book Blind Faith by Ben Elton all about a world where everyone has to constantly post all about themselves or be seen as odd/dangerous. amusing book but with some serious ideas, at one point the leaders decree that everyone is famous!!

but saw interview with the scientist on abc 7.30 report and what she said seemed to make a lot of sense.

[Colin]

fantastic animated cartoon Plu...so true in a nutshell.

Hey, you are still supposed to pay me a real visit, remember...got your 6ft goodies here...can't send it via internet.

cheers

[maryclaire]

A further addition if I might is enjoying your own company. A very important aspect that I believe alot of people avoid by doing all of things listed in this post so far.

I absolutely agree - and would like to add that I think it concerning that a lot of younger people these days are uncomfortable with silence and constantly have to have music pumping directly into their ears.

[Solace]

I absolutely agree - and would like to add that I think it concerning that a lot of younger people these days are uncomfortable with silence and constantly have to have music pumping directly into their ears.

And it's not just younger people. Recently I was in a dentist's waiting room and an 'older' man (maybe 50) came in and sat down with a young girl of maybe 12 at most. He has an earphone in one ear (the ear closest to the child), just like my son usually has. The child (could have been daughter or granddaughter) had to pull the earphone out of his ear so that he could hear her speak. As soon as she was done, he popped the earphone back in and went back to tuning her out. I was amazed as I thought it was only teenagers who were doing this.

[plu]

Hi all,

Last year the Govt/ACER sponsored a series of workshops on the Digital Education Revolution rollout.

Mark Pesce was the main presenter and I attended the session in Sydney. His presentation was called "Those Whacky kids" - there is a bit more depth to it than the animation earlier, will take a while to read and does provide several useful insights and links for those who want to be abreast of the issues discussed here.

cheers Plu

[DiJ]

Hey Plu,

Thanks for posting the article, I have to say it's one of the best articles I have read in a while and I have sent it to loads of people so that they have their eyes and minds open like I just did.

Di.

[langswm]

Plu

Your are a way-too-infrequent-poster (and runner?) these days, but what you do come up with from time to time is pure gold.

Great read, especially for those of us with teenage kids. Very tempted to forward it onto my girl's school principal!

[serena]

Hi all,

Last year the Govt/ACER sponsored a series of workshops on the Digital Education Revolution rollout.

Mark Pesce was the main presenter and I attended the session in Sydney. His presentation was called "Those Whacky kids" - there is a bit more depth to it than the animation earlier, will take a while to read and does provide several useful insights and links for those who want to be abreast of the issues discussed here.

cheers Plu

Interesting article. I'm in the same position at my kids school as Stephen Collins and I really like the wiki page idea, thanks Plu.
serena

[tim]

cool link.

thanks Plu.

[Tiz]

That was a great article to read, and it's made me think a lot more about our 'virtual' world these days.

I'm 24. My family got its first IBM when I was 3 (with the floppy disks for each program) and then when I was 11 we got out first Windows based computer complete with internet access (1996)

I think that making the internet much more integrated into schools is a positive step. Like the article said, school should get you ready for the real world and should progress with the times. Wiki is brilliant, the UQ med school actually trialled using one for their PBL (problem based learning) groups. I think it had a few glitches but once it's up and running it'll be great.

Same as things like google, when I'm at work I'm constantly jumping on the internet to pull up information that I need.

Social networking is different though. It certainly has its place (when I was in high school I'd spend a couple hours each night on the phone, now they jump on the net) but I don't think it really belongs in school. It is socializing after all. Maybe it shouldn't be completely banned, but I don't think it really has its place in lessons.

The interesting thing is that people my age take forever to catch on to new social websites. by the time I got facebook it was already massive, and currently everyone I know is saying that Twitter sucks (but I'm sure most people will join sooner or later). It's probably an age thing, we've got full time jobs and cars etc so it's not quite as much a part of our lives.

Teenagers are so different now compared to when I was one! There is a huge shift in how people act and what is acceptable. My stepsister (for example) is 17, and if I want to know anything about her sex life it's in her myspace bulletins for the world (or her friends) to see. I think it has also made people a whole lot more vain - do we all really need to see 40 photos that are exactly the same of someone? Apparently yes. The reminder of how many friends you have is also unnecessary. I think that the internet makes certain problems more acute (like in some instances bullying) - but it would occur in the real world anyway. While that doesn't make it ok, I don't think all the blame should be placed on the websites. It should be placed on society as a whole.

I think in some ways the best solution is to integrate the internet into our lives as much as possible so that what's acceptable and what's not acceptable starts to have a bit more of a moral compass. I think the more adults that become involved, the better. It is also something that will improve as the current teenagers get older in my opinion.

Hmm so that was a lot of rambling...

For the record I do have a myspace (that I don't check), a facebook, and as of yesterday a Twitter. I also spend waaay more time than I should checking them (and coolrunning). I don't think it's necessarily fun as such, it seems like more of a compulsion. I think that's because of my personality more than because of the websites...

[run2work]

Tiz,

I hope you have time to run!

rtw

[tim]

I was thinking about this today. Once there was coolrunning and everyone posted here. then came blogs and I noticed some people moved their posting time to blogging and less CR. Now there is facebook and so time is put there as well. Now Twitter. So in a way it has spread people out more.

Which is quite representative of society. More things and so our time is divided more. I always worry about the effect this has on quality.

I like the idea of looking at the way kids communicate and using it to design a better learning environment for them.

[Colin]

I prefer the animation Plu...much more representative of what I see my friends using those tools do...i.e. "exhibitionsists about their mundane existences" in the hope that some old friend (and other peripheral 'friends') may be impressed by their lifestyle.

Its good that educationists take heed of new ways of communicating and using this to disemminate information and making the learning environment more related to the social environment.

However...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

imo, most educationists, well meaning as they are to provide good products, do not have any experience in the real commercial world.
The 'products' they make should still be able to function in the face to face and hands on environment.

The IT savvy workforce has worked well in the up to recently booming economy of IT, Finance and politicians less reliance (hatred of?) on manufacturing...because those industries are more reliant on online 'presence'.
Now that the realisation has dawned that you do actually have to make value added real products in order to grow the economy doesn't look so flash anymore.

The 'products' should be prepared to also deal with the tangible and face to face.

I work in an industry that is face to face in manufacturing, sales, support/training and service...very little done by IT, except marketing...but people don't buy and engage in a partnership without trying the products, speaking to others who have and developing trust between you and them..

...a twitter and a facebook just won't cut it.

And we rely on industries that manufacture, research, environmental manufacture, biotech etc.

What we have found as a company (and previous one) and industry is that our workforce is getting older. Despite technology, we cannot find people under 45 who 'know what we do' and the people we deal with require more and more training and support as their demographic gets younger.

Chemists with PhD's are no longer able to troubleshoot a basic such as pH, because instead of understanding the concepts behind it (which could be a whole semester worth) , they only know the 'soundbites' and feel they can 'get' the knowledge from a click of a mouse on Wiki etc

You cannot get experience from Wiki. More often than not a process worker (at say a soft drink plant) knows more about the practicalities of the chemistry's involvement in the process, and our intstrumentation role, than the chief chemist sitting in the soundproofed office.

We have noticed a dumbing down where people are specialists in theory but hopeless in practice.

The article is a good one for the affirmative in the debate...but there needs to be a balance.

cheers

[FakePlasticTrees]

I like the idea of looking at the way kids communicate and using it to design a better learning environment for them.

See, I'm kind of opposed to that but I'll get into that later. I'm youngish, work in technology area so am meant to be an enabler for this type of stuff but quite frankly it scares the shit out of me. The amount of information that people give away about themselves is ridiculous. I attended a speech recently by a guy how looks into the upcoming systems and what we'll be introducing over the next 5-10 years. Basically the future is about being completely transparent across the world.

You mentioned the many various sites, there are already companies out there that pull information from loads of different sites and at the push of a button can bring up information about anyone. I think they called it Social Data Mining or some such. Imagine going for a job and missing out because 7 years ago you updated your facebook status to say that the XYZ company were arseholes.

Which brings me to my point, sure teach kids how to use the internet in a smart way. Intelligently, but that should be as an adjunct to formal education. Written literature, mathematics etc... standards will fall (and already have). As Tiz said, Social networking is still socialising. It's disingenuous to suggest as Mark Pescoe does that school is "like a completely unrealistic pain in the ass, one which is out of step with the world beyond the classroom walls", he also suggests that "Parents work flextime, they telecommute, work all hours of the day or night, across nations, across time zones, across disciplines." and therefore learning things such as "underst[anding] schedules and timelines, essential elements in the industrial era" is not important. Try being a lawyer or accountant and having to account for each 6 minutes of your working time. You can't bill 12minutes of twittering to a client.

Tradies generally start at sparrows fart in the morning and work through the day. Customer satisfaction is driven by performing the jobs in accordance with the times agreed with the customer. Building sites are run to strict time frames, they may all have mobiles but if they aren't concentrating on what they are doing then people could get injured.

It's this constant state that somebody described the other day as "constant partial awareness" and others may describe as not being "fully present in the room". I think that the kids need to be taught how to focus on one thing at a time, even if that's not what they do outside in real life. It's a skill to be able to focus on one thing, shut your eyes and try to think about any one thing for 60 seconds, I bet 15 seconds into it you are thinking about penguins. Then you've got to text your friends or twitter that you just remembered the new zoolander movie is coming out.

Lastly to revisit his point about parents working flextime etc... I don't have figures but I bet it is a small percentage of the work force that has the ability to do those things. The majority of organisations still require physical presence at an office. Physical labour, you can't really phone that in.

[tim]

I prefer the animation Plu...much more representative of what I see my friends using those tools do...i.e. "exhibitionsists about their mundane existences" in the hope that some old friend (and other peripheral 'friends') may be impressed by their lifestyle.

Kind of like the way some use coolrunning.

[Colin]

Kind of like the way some use coolrunning.

You mean some people actually tell you about their daily trivia here?...

...I thought it was forum to argue about stuff

FPT,

Thanks...coming from someone like you, a lot younger and actually in IT, its good to know that the 'real world' knows what they want.
Pretty much our experiences

...if we can only get the educationsists to provide us that.

Teaching people 'socialising skills' at school is not really what I as a parent expect out of it....my daughters were perfectly capable of picking those stuff up themselves.

btw last night the two of them were doubled up over the computer screen laughing at people who have asked to be friends (of friends of friends).
They actually worked these things out themselves...the same way we did in different social environments.

One would expect school to use these tools for education, but also be the place where the text , twitter, FB environment should take a back seat to the real world environment.

[tim]

I do not think it is one or the other.

These online tools are just a way of exchanging information.

what that information is varies.

it is like we could talk about a hammer. one could build a house with it or as Joe Orton's lover found one can end a life with it. But the hammer is not good or bad it is just a hammer.

[littleblackpug]

More things and so our time is divided more. I always worry about the effect this has on quality.

Who says you have to have more things however? You don't. You don't need to divide your time. You can say no to Facebook, Twitter, Myspace , Live Journal, forums, blogs and whatever else there is that my very behind-the-times brain chooses not to keep up with.

[Swaggers]

i.e. "exhibitionsists about their mundane existences" in the hope that some old friend (and other peripheral 'friends') may be impressed by their lifestyle

You kind of messed that up Colin.
.......
Person Unknown says: " Hey. Look here Christina, it's old Mahone prattling on about his mundane existence."

"Move over let me see. Oh bugger, we'll have to work harder at being more mundane. His mundane existence leaves us for dead - f**k I feel an existential crisis looming."

PU: "What? What are you on about Chris? It's just the thunder and rain. No f**ken Shakespearian foreshadowing or iambic pentameter here. This is coolrunning."

Chris rolls her eyes and laments:: "Idiot. Do you have to over-analyse every little thing? You're getting the real-life weather mixed up with something in your head to impress people.

" Hey look Tim has just shaved his beard off and Colin has a firmly held opinion. And FTP just posted a classic clinical response."

PU, looking confused: "Huh. Who's FTP? Don't you mean FPT? I thought his response was cool.

" My lifestyle! What you want me to go on about how I play a bass guitar in the punkededest punk band in the world."

"Yeah. Me too,' says Christina, "Me too, I thought FPT got it fairly right, but what about the emotional development of kids. They're mostly clock watchers now, waiting for the oldies to get home. They know all about time poorness and time management.

" And you ya' tone-deaf gaff. Play bass, in your dreams maybe - get real."

"So they make new friends on the computer. What's up with that?"

"Nothing, it is just rather sad that kids have such a mundane existence that they have to go on social websites to find friendship or comunicate with others in the first place."

"Hmmm... Now you're stereotyping. You'll have that exhibitionist, Swagger, ranting on and on and on. Just have to watch for the kids that take the websites too seriously."

"Who the f**k is Swagger?"

This post has been edited by Swaggers: Apr 2 2009, 02:48 PM

[tim]

I really like that post.

but I thought PU was an uncarved block?

[Swaggers]

but I thought PU was an uncarved block?

Exactly. Make sure you give him or her the meanest mohawk you can imagine.

Goose Long Travel just emailed me. He said:

"Hi! Swagger, I can read your mind. I know that in amongst all that gobbly gook you are saying that social websites are like books. You can sail away in a book. Sometimes you end up on a ship with fools. Sometimes you return from a great adventure: a different person, a stronger, better person with new perspective on life and insights to help you as you travel through life. Some social websites are cool and enabling and some are lame and disabling.

Travel Long,

Goose."

Make of that what you will,

Cheers,
Swagger.

This post has been edited by Swaggers: Apr 2 2009, 03:39 PM

[Spud]

As if the Gen Y'ers and next Gens didn't have enough networking/social media.
Check this out for what lies ahead in the not too distant future.

Amazing stuff!

[FunRunner007]

Wow! that really is amazing!

[Colin]

Wow! that really is amazing!

The clothes she is wearing?

Oh, the technology is amazing too

[tim]

wow.

but i am still trying to figure out how to program my TV.

Do you need to paint another digit to watch porn?

[tim]

It just dawned on me. Twittering is the noise a budgie makes when it talks to itself in that little mirror in its cage.

oh dear.

[FakePlasticTrees]

How can anyone seriously be comfortable putting a picture of themselves up on "twitpic". Another thing that speaks volumes.

[tim]

How can anyone seriously be comfortable putting a picture of themselves up on "twitpic". Another thing that speaks volumes.

twitpic

I sometimes wonder if it is this great joke thought up in the pub by a few IT guys.

[Martin Dugdale]

As if the Gen Y'ers and next Gens didn't have enough networking/social media.
Check this out for what lies ahead in the not too distant future.

Amazing stuff!

amazing indeed, isn't science wonderful

[plu]

Hi all,

Probably as good as his last article - more from Mark Pesce - The Human Network. Here is the context:

This arvo I popped into the Pennant Hills Bowling Club to have a beer. The main reason was to read Mark Pesce's Digital Citizenship

Once again I was completely captivated by the blog post and needed an environment in which I felt relaxed to read it.

I used to go to Clubs and Pubs to connect with people and now I go to connect with people online :-)

How times have changed.

cheers Plu

[JoggerK]

good article here

[slowmo]

How can anyone seriously be comfortable putting a picture of themselves up on "twitpic". Another thing that speaks volumes.

sigh... couldn't agree more... people spending lots of time on the internet, identifying themselves with bizarre pseudonyms...

what's the world coming to ?

slowmo

[Pacermal]

I don't have a short attention

[haggis basher]

Good article JoggerKev.
Being an "oldie" and never having been trained on the internet, i just manage to struggle my way through the basics.
I have a great social bunch of friends outside in the "real world", whom I treasure very much.
Sometimes, it is too easy to say things on the net, that people would never have the guts to say to ones face!
I do miss the "old days" where life seemed so much simpler and happier.
See ya all.

This post has been edited by haggis basher: May 13 2009, 04:53 PM

[plu]

There has been a follow up episode:



.. a good send up.

Plu

[swaggerer]

I used to think Dungeons and Dragons was for nerds. Maybe it is the revenge of the nerds: a conspiracy to ensure the nerdification of society. I just haven't thought of a motive yet. Rudi where are you?

Cool interview (text) with the guy who invented it.

http://www.punkmarketing.com/punk-blog/all-of-a-twitter

Bye the way "punkmarketing" is the biggest oxymoron I've seen for a while. I think John Lydon calls such a sham "plonk copycats".

"It's all very safe to run around in blue mohawks now but there were people then who had mohawks who knew what that f**king meant. "You had to earn your wings for that and not it's a fashion commodity."

Mind you we need to consider the limitations of language and the confines of genre.

This post has been edited by swaggerer: May 14 2009, 12:29 PM

[Spud]

Did you know?

[plu]

Spud I read the first fact abut China (found that really insightful about making a difference) in Friedman's The World is Flat - been doing some summaries of the book here.

Great clip.

cheers Plu