16 replies to this topic

[sook54]

OK I've been doing my sums and my PB times show a big slowdown factor.

23:54 5k (CR5k Sydney Mar 09), 52:03 10k (Lane Cove Feb 09), 1:52:30 21.1 (Dec 08, CC half)

Is there anything I can do about it at this stage given that my current goal race is SMH half? Is it too late to build my endurance? I am running about 60-70km a week, including long run ca. 25km, not injured.

Help!

[JustinS007]

sook54, on Apr 4 2009, 06:59 PM, said:

OK I've been doing my sums and my PB times show a big slowdown factor.
52:03 10k (Lane Cove Feb 09), 1:52:30 21.1 (Dec 08, CC half)

I'm not seeing it. 5:12pace 10K, 5:20pace HM is fine. General speed looks the issue to me, not endurance.

[Horrie]

Your 10km time gives a good conversion to your HM time so I don't think your endurance is a problem. I think you are a bit down on yourself because your 5km PB last week indicated a faster 10km time than what you did today. Flat Bay Run versus a hilly Lane Cove course, Then you can throw in your mild asthma attack today and I think you have your answer. Just stick to your current training and you will be right as rain for the SMH Half. You are doing plenty for a HM.

[walshy2]

I agree with Horrie that you are doing plenty for a half

1 day per week of speedwork won't hurt

[Peterhorse]

Hi Sook54

i don't know your training pattern as Horrie et all do, but seems to me that Ednurance is not the question here. You've already got what you've got in that sense and as said above it's on target. With 43 days to go, it's perefect time for adding more speed into the equation. everybody trains differently but from 5-6 weeks out is when i add 1 or 2 extra speed sessions a week. everything i read suggests this is the icing on the cake that will pull those times down and when you get the most benefit from speed. (i know otheres advocate year round speed - me too, but i only do 1 a week until last 5-6 weeks).

so perhaps include the following for 4-5 weeks
- 1 fartlek session per week (8-15k, with surges thrown in and average pace close to goal HM pace)
- 1 tempo session (5-8k, at anaerobic threshold = hard puffing)
- 1 interval type speed session e,g. 3x2k, 5x1k, 6x500m, 10x400m etc as you get closer (as fast as you can manage but same pace for each rep), shorter recoveries like 45s-1min tops.
- keep your long run, sounds perfect
- fill in ht erest with easy stuff

in summary, add speed for 4-5 weeks and you'll be nicely surprised

good luck

PH

[sook54]

JustinS007, on Apr 4 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

General speed looks the issue to me, not endurance.

Well let's not talk about speed - I yam what I yam - neither young nor experienced nor athletically gifted. But pretty disciplined and focused so keen to do what I can to work with the factors I do have control over. Like base-building.

I was intending to start doing some speedwork in the next weeks.

Thanks for the feedback - if you experienced guys don't think it's a problem I won't worry about it any further Yr right Horrie, I was a bit disappointed with myself today.

[JustinS007]

sook54, on Apr 4 2009, 09:51 PM, said:

Well let's not talk about speed - I yam what I yam - neither young nor experienced nor athletically gifted. But pretty disciplined and focused so keen to do what I can to work with the factors I do have control over. Like base-building.

I was intending to start doing some speedwork in the next weeks.

Thanks for the feedback - if you experienced guys don't think it's a problem I won't worry about it any further Yr right Horrie, I was a bit disappointed with myself today.

Sorry sook, that does read badly. Wasn't meant to be an insult. Just trying to highlight that your endurance seems fine relative to 10k performance. And I agree totally with PH that if you want to improve your pace then speedwork is the key. I'd even argue that your endurance is so good that you could start to drop the volume quite a bit even now and do 2 solid interval sessions per week and a tempo/fartlek for 3 or 4 weeks before easing down ahead of the race. You're experienced enough to listen to the signs of your body and make sure you push hard in speed sesions but not injure yourself. Looking forward to your 5:00pace HM (1:45).

[Eagle]

Sook:
With 6 weeks or so to go you could continue to build you base by some good firm medium runs. But you could also have shorter day but with more speed. I think when you are trying to builda bit of speed but reallt faster endurance you could think about a session that instead of just 10k straight it is say 3 x3k or 2 x 5k run at a pace faster than you woul ddo the straight 10k but with a 5 minute break or so in between. That way you will ensure that each repeat is at he desired intensity.

If the 10k is run straight and say starts off too fast and end too slow you have reallt not been in the effective inteslity zone long enough to have the desired effect.

[sook54]

Eagle, on Apr 5 2009, 12:42 PM, said:

If the 10k is run straight and say starts off too fast and end too slow you have reallt not been in the effective inteslity zone long enough to have the desired effect.

Yep I think this is what I mean by my endurance flagging - I know I have a tendency to go out too fast, but I really do reign it in, honest! Thanks for the suggestions I will give that strategy a try, it seems to have done wonders for Rachinaus!

[Brick]

I would do longer intervals.
Maybe 2KM interval sessions between 10km and HM speed do 3-4 sets during a 12km run and nice and easy 5 minutes between each.
Try to have the same speed for all of the intervals but not to slow make it closer to your 10km speed if possible.
This will get you more speed and also help with you not slowing down.

[Tom31]

IMO, if you want to improve quickly for a Half, then concentrate on hills. This is particularly so for something like SMH. It doesn't even need to be formal hill reps - just try attacking each hill you come across on your standard runs.

[sook54]

Thanks Tom, I've been doing as many hills as I can find lately - the 10 bridges run around Sydney Harbour on Sunday gave me plenty of hills to attack (or did they attack me?).

I've also been doing a bit of reading and I think the word for what I'm lacking is stamina rather than endurance. The long intervals seem like a good way to go here, as suggested by Brick and Eagle.

On all my PBs there is a noticeable falling off of pace in the back half of the race. On the other hand I did a really big negative split in a 25km hilly race recently though I wasn't really racing it. So going out more conservatively is clearly a good idea.

[Melruns]

Quote

Well let's not talk about speed - I yam what I yam

I think from your times the comments aren't directed at your speed, in fact almost the opposite for your 5k time. Your 10k and HM match but your 5k is a bit faster. You're too fast! Speed endurance maybe? (Did I just make up a phrase?)

Longer intervals will bring your times into line. I can feel a sub 1.50 coming on for you, and you have plenty of time. I used to struggle to put more than 7 or 8 ks together around 5.00min ks and thanks to speed work once a week building up to HMs, can manage about 5.06 min ks or so for a HM. 4.50 odd for a 10k. All thanks to intervals once a week and maybe an extra tempo. And I know deep down in my lazy, plodding soul that the only thing that will get me under 5min ks for a HM is more speedwork.

Good luck with it, keep us posted.

[OldeRunner]

Peterhorse, on Apr 4 2009, 08:47 PM, said:

so perhaps include the following for 4-5 weeks
- 1 fartlek session per week (8-15k, with surges thrown in and average pace close to goal HM pace)
- 1 tempo session (5-8k, at anaerobic threshold = hard puffing)
- 1 interval type speed session e,g. 3x2k, 5x1k, 6x500m, 10x400m etc as you get closer (as fast as you can manage but same pace for each rep), shorter recoveries like 45s-1min tops.


in summary, add speed for 4-5 weeks and you'll be nicely surprised

This makes more sense to me than Pat Carrolls Advnce program for SMH HM which seems far too little too late . I will take this up and see how I go.

[sook54]

Did my first 6x1km session today - a few glitches caused by trying to do it on a busy morning on the Bay Run. Average pace for the intervals of about 5min/km. See blog for details.

Just found out my time for the 10km last Saturday was actually 51'58" so 12 secs faster than my watch showed (and new PB). Every little bit helps!

[runningcat]

sook! You've done good times in your past half marathons! The last one even I reckon you finished strong. I think you will do well this time, you've been running so much so...

[sook54]

Thanks runningcat - if I can keep up with you I'll be more than happy!