20 replies to this topic

[Swaggers]

Hey CRs. In case you all weren't aware the Championships for the old fellas and grals is on in SA.

Results are at http://www.samasters...ionship2009.htm.

Glenda is putting in her usual strong performances. I am sure there are other CRs competing. Any news?

Check this out for a great run from 75 year old David Carr.


1 75005 Carr, David M76 (WA) MASTERS 2:38.53 (1:45.33 95.99%)

The time to the right is the time he may have run as a youngster. The percentage has something to do with his time compared to the world's best average?



Cheers,
Swagger.

Edited by Swaggers, 11 April 2009 - 04:28 PM.

[Bellthorpe]

Yeah, Glenda's putting in her usual kick ass performance.

I can't see any other CR names there, but you don't always know. And there are quite a few CR who don't post at all.

I thought you'd be there ... ?

[walker1st]

Swaggers, on Apr 11 2009, 04:19 PM, said:

Check this out for a great run from 75 year old David Carr.


1 75005 Carr, David M76 (WA) MASTERS 2:38.53 (1:45.33 95.99%)

The time to the right is the time he may have run as a youngster. The percentage has something to do with his time compared to the world's best average?

I assume that this is 800m

the time in bracket is calcualted from masters tables

( I can give You link to the site -calculator) using the age and the interpolation calculated WR at that age from WR record of other age groups.... getting teh % 95.99 % of the age WR.
To equal age WR YOu will get 100%, setting new age WR You need to get more than 100%, tables are upgraded maybe once in a decade.

From the % than it is calculated teh value of the performance into teh same value as You were open age category, so young at 20-35, 1:45 would be equivalent performance.

seems to me that taking age tables into account this guy is currently the best 800m runner in australia

[Eagle]

I am watching for the result for Geoff Moore in the 60 - 65 age group a previous winner of the Canberra Marathon. He is running in at least the 5,000 & 10,000 and should do quite well. I don't knowif he posts but he ha an intersting Blogg I follow "Speedy Geoff". CR's from Canberra know him very well as he is very active in the area. Good luck Geoff.

[DrJH]

I also noticed that 800 from David Carr. 2.38 at 76 is one hell of a run. The age grade of almost 96% is fantastic when you consider that most of the events over there are being won with percentages less than 90.

A quick bit of research shows he ran a 2.34 in 2007 which is the current world record and he led the world rankings in the M75 by 7 secs last year.

I think Walker 1st is right when he says he's Australia's top 800 runner.

Edited by DrJH, 11 April 2009 - 10:31 PM.

[walker1st]

the performances from masters nationals - the results from Adelaide

do NOT represent the level of australian masters athletics.

If I look specificaly at walking, most of eliote masters walkers did not participated at all, and sonme from those who did, just walked easy slowly to secure the medal, without going for a fast time.
Australia has few current age groups world records holders,
when they race their grading is usually in the 97-101 % range .

why teh masters national are not taken seriously is another matter,

the level at state masters is much higher and most elite masters athletes are prepairing, training for and perhaps saving money for the worlds in Finland this year.

[sook54]

Woodstock Runners' Dot Siepmann took out the W65 10000 m with 53:16.21 (37:31.74 79.99%). Well done Dot!

[DrJH]

walker1st, on Apr 14 2009, 10:44 AM, said:

the performances from masters nationals - the results from Adelaide

do NOT represent the level of australian masters athletics.

If I look specificaly at walking, most of eliote masters walkers did not participated at all, and sonme from those who did, just walked easy slowly to secure the medal, without going for a fast time.
Australia has few current age groups world records holders,
when they race their grading is usually in the 97-101 % range .

why teh masters national are not taken seriously is another matter,

the level at state masters is much higher and most elite masters athletes are prepairing, training for and perhaps saving money for the worlds in Finland this year.

I think the results varied quite a bit. Some events/age groups were a bit soft, others had the best in the world competing. Some of the athletes did times below their best because they were doing 4 or 5 events over the 4 days (going for wins rather than medals). It is easier to run a state championship where missing work, cost of travel, etc aren't factors.

[HillsAths1]

I would have thought that most of the Masters would be concentrating on the World masters games in Sydney this year and not Finland!

It would have to be cheaper by a long way.

[walker1st]

HillsAths1, on Apr 14 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

I would have thought that most of the Masters would be concentrating on the World masters games in Sydney this year and not Finland!

It would have to be cheaper by a long way.

cheaper yes a bit (ridiculous games entry package, teh same was in Geelong in FEB - and ignored by almost all VIC masters walkers).

from talking to others, it seems that Sydney medals do not mean much, but Finland medals do have a value.
somehow pure athletics masters championship is considered as a real athletics thing,
while the games are not.

[Swaggers]

Hills Aths.

Sydneys a lot closer. However, like Rudi says they are Games. So you have hockey, baseball, quilting and most of the other sports on the program as well. It's pretty well a social gathering.

The Sydney Masters is not a Championship so if you win a race you cannot really call yourself the World Champion. So usually a lot of the faster runners will head off to Finland or find an open race somewhere to run their races and try for a fast time if that is their way.

Even the world championships is kind of regional if you look at the results. Often the local guys and girls figure prominently in the results when in their back yard but often former world champs don't appear in later results. Some simply don't want to, bother to, are able to travel overseas to race.

An athlete wanting to compete in the WMA Champs doesn't have to qualify. It is the philosophy of Australian Masters Athletics (AMA)) and all state branches to include all runners regardless of abilty. This is so for the World Masters Athletics (WMA). The WMA Athletics Championship is host to all the traditional IAAF disciplines plus a Cross Country race and a marathon.

I am not sure but I think it is a different mob that organise the Sydney Games. The huge entry fees seems to be needed to promote it and to stage the various non-sport entertainments.

In the end I don't think it matters. Most people in Master's running seem to focus on times and/or having fun anyway. I reckon the Sydney Masters Games are a great event.

That's just my opinion and observations.

Cheers,
Swagger.

Edited by Swaggers, 15 April 2009 - 09:09 AM.

[DrJH]

There's little doubt the WMA championships is the better event, but when the Games is in your backyard, without all that's involved in missing a couple of weeks work and traveling to Europe, etc, it makes it an easier option.

[walker1st]

yes, but use the masters worlds champs as an excuse to travel the world...
friend of mine already paid for few weeks in Finland and a tour of Russia...

it was similar 2 years ago with Italy

and few master athletes already have detailed travel plans for the next one in northern america

[Eagle]

walker1st, on Apr 15 2009, 11:56 AM, said:

yes, but use the masters worlds champs as an excuse to travel the world...
friend of mine already paid for few weeks in Finland and a tour of Russia...

it was similar 2 years ago with Italy

and few master athletes already have detailed travel plans for the next one in northern america

That fine if your work circumstances permit it. I would love to travel the work and run but I would only do that if I could share it with my wife. She owns a business that is totally personal service and so struggles to get a few days off for skiing. A few weeks woul dbe impossible. So I agree with the Doc this is a great opportunity in our backyard. I wasn't but I have now entered.

[DrJH]

walker1st, on Apr 15 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

yes, but use the masters worlds champs as an excuse to travel the world...
friend of mine already paid for few weeks in Finland and a tour of Russia...

it was similar 2 years ago with Italy

and few master athletes already have detailed travel plans for the next one in northern america

It has certainly crossed my mind, especially as I've just moved up an age group and recent form suggests I might be reasonably competitive. However, footy season, teenage kids, other work make it an incredibly disruptive exercise.

[Jimboy]

I doubt that Sydney will attract anything like the numbers of elite Veterans/Masters athletes that Lahti will.Just the cost would deter the Northern Hemisphere athletes from coming here.
The cream of Oz and NZ veterans will shine in Sydney if they choose to compete there instead or as well as in Lahti.
But the depth of talent in the USA/Europe scene will far oustrip the Sydney results and more accurately reflect what we call World Championship level.As an athlete I would much prefer to compete at Lahti since it is run by an organisation that is more truly Track and Field minded.They only appeared to link with the more multi-sport oriented Masters for economic/political reasons.
Who is handling the Track and Field organisation in Sydney on behalf of the World Masters Games group?That could define how worthwhile they will be to compete in.If they can duplicate the marvellous work put in by Melbourne Vets Club in the World VETERAN Games in November 1987 they will do well.It was a magnificent Games,definitely the best I attended organisationally,it has been all downhill in Oz since.
That said I will probably raid the pension fund to compete in Sydney.

[MrD]

sook54, on Apr 14 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Woodstock Runners' Dot Siepmann took out the W65 10000 m with 53:16.21 (37:31.74 79.99%). Well done Dot!

Dot Siepmann
10,000M: 53.16, 1st W65 (her best time on the track in over 3 yrs)
5,000M: 26.32, 1st W65
8 km Cross Country: 49.24, 1st W65

Outstanding Dot (and I know you are a CR lurker!)

You continue to inspire and set the benchmark for us all. Good to see the Woodstock interval sessions are paying off!

[emjay]

Congratulations Dot!!

[chookrunner]

I've just come back from Adelaide, where the games were well organised, the weather was beautiful and some great athletes were competing.
Unfortunately the numbers were disappointing, but this is often the case. As DrJH says, it is often hard for younger Masters athletes to attend due to family commitments. For older athletes, whose kids are off their hands, it's often just a question of finances. A lot of people are probably hesitant about spending at the moment.
For me, as I am going to Finland, I wanted the competition and the regimen of competing away from home.
I might add, in my events and age group, the competition at Adelaide is as good as I will strike in Finland, although there will be more of it there.

David Carr is a top Masters athlete who, I think, beat the legendary Earl Fee over 800m. at the WMA Champs in Riccione in 2007. I think he ran about 61 seconds to win the 400m in San Sebastian as a 70 year old. Try that one on for size

I won't bother with the Games in Sydney, as they're too expensive and many of the top athletes don't go. Had I competed in Geelong, I would have been the only one in my age group. Who wants a medal under those circumstances ?

[SoLucky]

chookrunner, on Apr 15 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

Had I competed in Geelong, I would have been the only one in my age group. Who wants a medal under those circumstances ?

You’re correct, in some circumstances medals have little meaning, but it doesn't matter.

I prefer to race for a time, which at my age is not going to be a PB, and whether I happen to take a medal is of minor consequence. My quest is to improve my age corrected figures on WMA calculation.

I don’t regard the lack of same age group competitors as being of major importance. There is usually a mixture of age groups in any one event, so the relatively younger ones can give me the necessary competition to make sure that I work hard enough to do my best.

[glenda]

Just returned from Adelaide after champs and family holiday. Including too much wine, after the races were over of course. Unfortunately I missed the Aus record in the 5000m by 5 secs. Now I have to try again. I had a bash in the 10km also but I was just not fresh enough I think. Missed that by about 40secs so was never close , I will have a go later in the year. Problem is finding a 10km track race. Next year it's Perth. Another good family Easter holiday.