53 replies to this topic

[Lost Boy]

After much frustration regarding finding myself a suitable trail shoe I have more or less given up. There is not a single trail shoe sold domestically which is suitable for me. Strangely, I find myself not really caring. Most of my longer runs are done on trails ranging from groomed trails to fire road type trail to fairly technical terrain and so far I have found that my road shoes have been fine in all of these conditions. Also, to get to my local trails I have to run for several Ks on sealed surfaces. There have been times at which I have stubbed a toe or been stabbed underfoot by a sharp rock by mostly I have been OK. Most of this running has been in fairly dry conditions though so this might change when things start to get sodden and slippery. I am still hunting for a shoe that will be more suitable for some runs that I have planned in the Tasmanian highlands.

So, this had made me wonder; how many trail runners actually use trail running shoes and how many feel that trail shoes are a trail running necessity? Are there any others among us who run trails but do not use trail shoes?

[undercover brother]

a wise but slightly old and cranky man was once heard to say...
this is a trail race.
i am wearing trail shoes.
enough said.

[Koala1]

I love my trail shoes - in fact, I enjoy running in my trails shoes more than my road shoes. They fit me better, are much lighter and I travel through all kinds of terrain quite happily in them.

Having said that though, I wear a brand of Keen trail shoes which have been discontinued a while ago and now I'm trying to find something else that might take their place, but so far haven't had any luck. The new version of the keen shoes I'd like to try, I can't get in Australia <sigh> so I'm wondering whether to take a risk and order from the US without trying them on. A bit risk with my feet really.

But each to their own. Many people run very happily on trails in road shoes and it works for them. Personally, I'd rather do it the other way around and run on the road in my trail shoes, but it would wear them out much faster.

[soyboy]

Lost boy - in my opinion they are absolutely not a necessity.
I was running trails in the old days when the phrase "trail running" hadn't even been invented.
Always always wore regular "road" shoes.
I have tried trail shoes but didn't really notice much improvement if any at all, except they might have been more slipperier on road *

So these days am quite happy pounding along in road shoes.

* admittedly the shoes available today could be better but I personally am happier "old skool".

[Bellthorpe]

undercover brother, on Apr 18 2009, 06:27 PM, said:

a wise but slightly old and cranky man was once heard to say...
this is a trail race.
i am wearing trail shoes.
enough said.

Well that's not exactly what I said ...

[Hoops]

I'm a complete trail shoe convert. I started running trails in normal road running shoes, had issues (e.g bruised feet from stones, close calls on slippery gravel) so bit the bullet and got some trail shoes. The grip and protection makes a big difference on more technical stuff.

What shoes do you usually run in? Many of the big brands have trail versions of their popular road shoes, e.g Asics GT-2130 Trail, Adidas Supernova Riot, etc.. Though they're surprisingly hard to find in Australian stores. Might have to buy from the US (on the assumption that they'll fit the same as your road equivalents.. usually a safe bet.)

They're generally not as "serious" as dedicated trail shoes e.g from Salomon/Inov8/Montrail, but still a big improvement over road shoes when the going gets tough IMHO.

[ChookLegsMonkeyBoy]

Hoops, on Apr 19 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

I'm a complete trail shoe convert. I started running trails in normal road running shoes, had issues (e.g bruised feet from stones, close calls on slippery gravel) so bit the bullet and got some trail shoes. The grip and protection makes a big difference on more technical stuff.

My experience was similar. I currently use Brooks Adrenalines on the road and Brooks Adrenaline ASRs (trail version) on off-road runs. The slightly better grip and protection for the soles of my feet really help the longer the run.
Cheers.
ChookLegsMonkeyBoy

[Lost Boy]

Hoops, on Apr 19 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

What shoes do you usually run in? Many of the big brands have trail versions of their popular road shoes, e.g Asics GT-2130 Trail, Adidas Supernova Riot, etc.. Though they're surprisingly hard to find in Australian stores. Might have to buy from the US (on the assumption that they'll fit the same as your road equivalents.. usually a safe bet.)

Hi Hoops. I run in GT-21XO in 2E width. The trail version is not sold in Aus but it is readily available online from the US. From what I have seen of it I think it would be sufficient for the bulk of what I do. When winter comes around if things start getting really nasty in my road shoes I'll order a pair of these from the US. I think I definately need a pair for some the tougher runs I have planned later in the year.

[Spud]

Trail shoe convert here. When i first started running trails i was happy to just use road shoes. However until you've run hard down a steep technical trail in both you will never look back (imo). Of course if all you run is hard packed, groomed fire trails roadies are fine.

[kathmandu]

i like trail shoes, but i wouldnt bother if i couldnt find one i really liked.

[scurry711]

I agree with both Spud and PsychoChicken. If you are doing technical stuff I prefer trail shoes but for groomed stuff then no need to get them particularly if you can't find a pair you like. I've done a couple of trail races where I got stone bruises running in normal shoes so that's why I prefer trail shoes.

At 6 foot this year I got talking to a woman going up Mini who was wearing the flashiest pair of light weight racers I've ever seen (which is the reason I got talking to her) and she swore by them and said she didn't feel a rock, so it's each to their own - as is the case with nearly everything running related. She did say that she thought the racers wouldn't last much longer after 6 foot whereas trail shoes are generally more robust and heavier and can take the knocks.

[Mister G]

Ran 6Ft in a pair of DS Trainers one year. No problems. This year I was tossing up between Asics 1130s (road shoe) or Montrail Streak (trail shoe) up till the night beforehand; eventually I went with the road shoes given the amount of firetrail out there.

My two fastest times there (a minute apart) were set wearing NB 804 (trail shoe) and Asics 1110 (road shoe). So probably no real difference.

I'd wear trail shoes at a rugged offroad race (like, say, Bogong) but road shoes are good for almost everything else, firetrail running and most singletrack included.

[Spud]

Ran Hellgate yesterday, and as I was fanging it down to the Jenolan river on the longest descent I was glad I had trailies on.
Loose mica, quartzy gravel along with some muddy areas, no way I would have ran down as fast or confidently with a pair of roadies on.

[Whippet Man]

Quote

Who Uses Trail Shoes?, Are they really necessary?

Me. For me, yes.

[gogirl]

Most trail shoes will be more of a low profile type shoe. I love my North Face Rucky Chucky's and have ran in these for every trail event I have done in the last 12 months. These shoes have stopped the lateral rolling of the ankles which I used to get in just the roadies and have a rock protection pad under neath the forefoot. They are also great to run on the road with if you need to. There are several good brands out there that have simular features.

[DistanceRunner]

If you run trails and are not sure whether you need trail shoes then no, you probably don't. It's should be obvious from the grip you're getting.

Mostly I use trail shoes for courses that involve really steep downhill running, such as day 1 of the 4 peaks. Here they are invaluable.

Otherwise I wear a low profile shoe, often something like a "high performance" trainer. This gives good feel for the surface.

[tim]

no.

I love road shoes. Right now I really like my ds trainers.

I have a couple of pair of hardly used trail shoes size US 10.5 - 11 if anyone wants them.

[Spud]

tim, on Apr 20 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

no.

I love road shoes. Right now I really like my ds trainers.

I have a couple of pair of hardly used trail shoes size US 10.5 - 11 if anyone wants them.

I'll take the trailies off you tim, seen as you run only road these days.

[Solace]

I've just started running off road and considered the question of whether to get myself some trail shoes. I did a few trail runs in my road shoes but I found I felt unstable and insecure in them. I bought myself some Salomon XA Pro Ultra (or something like that) and I am in lurv. I feel really stable on the trails and during the adventure race on the weekend I had not a single problem with sticking to the trails or any problems with stones poking my feet through the soles.

[Dave]

I have and do still use both road and trail shoes for my off road running.

My first pair of trail shoes were the Brooks Trail Addiction, about 5 years ago. Only recently have I ventured back into the specialist trail shoes as I plan on a lot of off road running this year. Now have a pair of Brooks Cascadia 3's which seem to be an evolution of the Trail Addictions that I used to have and now also a pair of TNF Rucky Chucky's which were on a huge discount at Paddy Pallins recently.

In my mind I am using the specialist trail shoes for 3 different types of usage
- off road training
- highly technical off road events (eg orienteering)
- longer distance off road, eg Rogaines or ultras

Like Mr G for 6 ft I have mainly strayed back towards light weight trainers or racers, the last couple of years opting for my Nike Air Zoom Elites, one year even using a pair of Brooks Racer ST's with no significant issues. For most other off road races that I would do, such as W2G or W2B then I will still stay with a lighter weight road shoe. I see the trail shoes as being great for more stability/support when required but not at all mandatory for every time I am running off teh tarmac.

[JustinS007]

At the finish line of B2H this year I noticed Martin Fryer had Asics DS Trainers on. They're a very light road shoe. He finished 2nd in a cracking time so it does make you wonder. I've always used trail shoes for trail events but probably more out of assuming it's the right thing rather than testing the alternatives and making up my own mind.

[ricardo]

Lost Boy, on Apr 19 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

I run in GT-21XO in 2E width.

You sound like my mate, couldn't find the perfect running shoes as his feet are too wide/long and he runs in the GT21XX or kayanos. He's found Asics Trabuco are the trail equivalent in Asutralia and loves them to death. Before he found these he was running trails in his road shoes, no issue until the trail gets hairy (he's done 100km trail runs and knows his stuff).

[scurry711]

Dave, on Apr 19 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

I have and do still use both road and trail shoes for my off road running.

My first pair of trail shoes were the Brooks Trail Addiction, about 5 years ago. Only recently have I ventured back into the specialist trail shoes as I plan on a lot of off road running this year. Now have a pair of Brooks Cascadia 3's which seem to be an evolution of the Trail Addictions that I used to have and now also a pair of TNF Rucky Chucky's which were on a huge discount at Paddy Pallins recently.

In my mind I am using the specialist trail shoes for 3 different types of usage
- off road training
- highly technical off road events (eg orienteering)
- longer distance off road, eg Rogaines or ultras

Like Mr G for 6 ft I have mainly strayed back towards light weight trainers or racers, the last couple of years opting for my Nike Air Zoom Elites, one year even using a pair of Brooks Racer ST's with no significant issues. For most other off road races that I would do, such as W2G or W2B then I will still stay with a lighter weight road shoe. I see the trail shoes as being great for more stability/support when required but not at all mandatory for every time I am running off teh tarmac.

Ran the W2G yesterday, its a trail but its as smooth as a baby's bum after the work they've done on it. Even suicide corner was smoothed out. What a shame. I ran in trail shoes but no need, your light weight trainers would do the trick.

[milov]

Contrary to a popular myth I wouldn't trip over a paddle pop stick and I have had some decent trail runs under my belt. I have found my switch to light weight trail shoes has helped. The lightness helps in increasing agility when covering broken ground and the tread helps on gnarly descents.

milov

[ricardo]

Or of course these:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Fo...Roger%20Caffin/

[Spud]

ricardo, on Apr 20 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

Or of course these:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Fo...Roger%20Caffin/

Right on ricardo, i luv my kt26s.

[Luko]

I'm a convert to Trail shoes as I found the sort of terrain I was running required something with a bit more grip. Back then I got a pair of Nike Pegasus Trail and found my confidence increased when tackling steep or slippery terrain.

I have now moved onto a pair of Adidas Kanadia and love them as well.

[RunBare]

I love my trail 5fingers so much more cushioning than my regular road style runners.

[tim]

ricardo, on Apr 20 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

Or of course these:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Fo...Roger%20Caffin/

3 sixfoots

bogong to hotham

Great North Walk 100 miler

all in the KT's.

............................sigh. Those were the days.

[Linkspurr]

ricardo, on Apr 20 2009, 05:35 PM, said:

You sound like my mate, couldn't find the perfect running shoes as his feet are too wide/long and he runs in the GT21XX or kayanos. He's found Asics Trabuco are the trail equivalent in Asutralia and loves them to death. Before he found these he was running trails in his road shoes, no issue until the trail gets hairy (he's done 100km trail runs and knows his stuff).

I picked up a pair of Asics Trabucos while I was in Korea and I can't fault them... even if I had to buy the mens version because I apparently have freakishly large feet - well compared to most women over there I guess I do.

I love them, they've been comfortable since day one and provide a little bit more support. I think trail shoes are worth the investment!

[fsck]

I've recently purchased a pair of brooks cascadia 4's

I'll prefix the below comments with :
- I was a trail shoe virgin until recently
- i'm currently running around 50km a week on trails

Previously i did my runs in mizuno waveriders or brooks glycerin, road or trail. They work fine but it's a lot of wear and tear on the shoe and found myself replacing them after roughly 300ish km. I still put them on if i'm doing a faster pace trail.

The cascadia's do have better grip on everything except flat wet surfaces, drain reasonably well, you feel less rocks underfoot and are relatively light.

On the downside :

The toe box, which has re-inforcements at the front, upset me for a while on the downhill but the problem seems to have disappeared, probably due to breakin and some better lacing. I'm not in the habit of kicking things so i never liked it.

I suspect they are more susceptible to medial/lateral rolling on pointy rocks but i'm not sure. The road shoes seems to absorb the rock into the tread while the trail shoes, with more robust tread, seem to roll off the rock sending my knee sides ways which isn't fun.

I'm happy with them and the affinity is growing.

So to answer your question after having a bit of a rant I don't think trail shoes are required and prefer a low km road shoe but i end up spending a small fortune replacing them.

[Bernie G]

I do wear trail shoes for technical off-road running. I find they give me a little more confidence and protection when needed. I have tried a few different brands and have now found a winner with the Mizuno Wave Ascend 4.

[wizbang]

I am realy enjoying my Mizuno's
1 x ascend4 for dirty stuff
1 x ascend4 for road and trail rotate with pair below
1 x ascend5 for road and trail rotate with pair above
1 x Alchemy for road especially for longer runs

I do like my Asics Kayano but my wife stole them.

I do notice the difference on the trails with slip or stoney surfaces.

Hope it helps.

[Tim 2]

There are trails and then there are trails.
I've been a convert since a bad fall caused by inadequate grip from a road shoe

Most trail running can be done comfortably in road shoes and then theres those trails and off trail trips that would tear most road shoes to shreads in about 12 hours.

6FT in road racing flats
"Real" trails especially ultradistance events in TNF Rucky Chuckys

[Rico]

Most of my weekly kilometrage is off road, mostly on gravelly or rocky walking paths. I've never owned any trail shoes but am always wondering if I should. My road shoes seem to do alright in terms of my own experience of the run, but I'm a bit concerned that the rough ground and sliding around might be damaging the shoes or wearing them out prematurely.

[pipi]

Two weeks ago I stumbled across the La Sportiva fireblades. These shoes are just great for running along walking trails with rocks and tree routes. They give you confidence and allow you to go faster. The traction on rock in particular is better than any other shoe running I have tried. I have ran about 90 km's in them so far.

I think a big problem with trail shoes is that by definition they are a specialist shoe. General road shoes are designed for many surfaces and hence do well on most trails (I have run my last four 6 foot track marathons in DS Trainers). In comparison, most trail shoes are made for a specific type of trail and hence often perform worse than road shoes on well groomed or hard packed trails. In the last couple of years a new bread of "cross over" shoes have hit the market with huge success. These shoes are made for the combination of road and fast trails and hence cover most of what is encountered in races in Australia. Salamon and Mizuno's are two examples.

If we had more races on technical trails then their could be a demand for trial shoes.

[FrankieP]

Love my trail shoes! Benefits:

They don't let sand in through the front mesh

They're wider and so feel much more stable underfoot

The toe box and heel counter are both deeper; the former allows room to wiggle and prevents jammed toes, and the latter just feels more secure on the uneven ground. Added benefit is that I can put my orthotics in under the liner and be more comfy and my foot is still lovely and deep in the shoe.

They're not white!


I have Teva Wraptors somethingorother and normally wear Brooks Trance and Adrenaline shoes. My feet are flat as pancakes.

Edited by FrankieP, 05 May 2009 - 04:12 PM.

[Solace]

I love my Salomons.....I think I've said that already though.....

Edited by Solace, 05 May 2009 - 04:53 PM.

[Old chook]

Love my Trabucos so much i bought 3 pairs. Before them, loved the Mizuno Wave Ascend. Both are a very pretty colour. As well as handling both road and trail. Have also run slippery rocky rooty gravelly and muddy stuff in lightweight walking boots (took myself for a run in the middle of the Cradle Mountain-Lake St Clair walk: that thick Vibram sole is wonderful), Teva sandals (nope) and Asics 2090s (i'd still be using them if Asics didn't change its damn shoes with every change of Italian government)

[yeti]

Lost Boy, on Apr 17 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

So, this had made me wonder; how many trail runners actually use trail running shoes and how many feel that trail shoes are a trail running necessity?

As with most things, its a matter of degree IMHO. There is a wide range shoes which are claimed to be "trail running shoes" - from sub-250g racers l(New Balance 790, Adidas Adizero XT) to 450g+ bricks shoes (Salomon, Merrell...). And there is an equally wide range of things called "trail" - from smooth fire trails easily runnable in racing flats to rocks/mud/scree that isn't runnable no matter what shoes you're wearing.
Never having been an extreme trail runner myself I'd have to say that none of the trail runs I've actually seen in Australia (i.e. 6ft, most of pre ~2003 Glasshouse i.e. without the powerlines section) , NZ (Kepler) and Germany really "required" trail shoes. Things may well look different at the more extrem end of the trail running scale (Bogong, various US 100Mi races, TMB) - but that is (and will remain) outside my experience.

So in conclusion: For most moderate trail races - NO, for extreme stuff - don't know.

Lost Boy, on Apr 17 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

Are there any others among us who run trails but do not use trail shoes?

Yes:

6ft - Diadora 230 (road racing flat), DS Trainer
Kepler - New Balance 900 (lightweight road shoe)
various trail runs in Germany: DS Racer, Adidas Shimanto, Adidas Taper....
don't remeber what I did my Glasshouse runs (Flinders 50k, various 25-30k, a couple of relays) in.

Yeti

[blair]

I haven't got any trail shoes yet. But I am definitely planning to simply because running on trails rips the soles of my road shoes apart and I find that I roll my ankles very easily in them. Having said that I can sympathise with the OP because I have had all sorts of trouble trying to find a suitable pair.

[Rico]

Like I said before, most of my running is off road and my only concern about doing it in road shoes is fear that I will damage or wear them out prematurely.

This was especially the case today when I tried on a pair of NB904s (recommended by the Chirunning site as a transitional shoe if you want to start moving away from the world of artificial control and padding and heel strike and such) and they felt awesome (and fast). But I was afraid that something so light would be delicate and get trashed.

Likewise I tried on various trail shoes and liked some of them, but wondered how suitable they are for road running.

I guess my biggest problems is that if my runs are half road half gravel/rocks/dirt, it isn't that one run is road and the next is GRD, it's that most runs are literally half one and half the other.

Anyway I'd love any personal experiences or advice anyone can offer on the durability issues. I see some of you wear racing flat style shoes off road. Do they stand up to it all right or do you just have to be prepared to buy new ones a lot?

Edited by Rico, 12 May 2009 - 01:44 PM.

[Solace]

Rico, on May 12 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

Likewise I tried on various trail shoes and liked some of them, but wondered how suitable they are for road running.

I guess my biggest problems is that if my runs are half road half gravel/rocks/dirt, it isn't that one run is road and the next is GRD, it's that most runs are literally half one and half the other.

When I was buying my Salomons the bloke at the asked me what percentage of trail/road I would be using the shoe for. There were three Salomon options all designed for varying degrees of road/trail. I bought the 100% trail version as I have road shoes for road and it'd be eother one or the other for me, so I choose my shoes accordingly. Had I been like you, they would have recommended a different shoe. So you'll probably find that you can find a shoe that suits you and your running.

[runningclear]

Trail shoes are essential for a serious runner going off road!!
I was in denial for a long time. However i went to Shoe Logic (a new shop near the city baths) and they made a good point about the structural differences of the shoe. The most important i thought was the fact that trail shoes offer greater torsional support around the midfoot. this takes the torsional stressors off the mid foot joints when running on un even surfaces.
They also discussed the percentage of trail to road running i did and i too went the XA Pro (full off road salomon. They are awesome!!! Great to run in and pretty light too.
Salomons seem to be by far and away the best too. Great range and mighty comfortable!!

[littleblackpug]

Rico, on May 12 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

Like I said before, most of my running is off road and my only concern about doing it in road shoes is fear that I will damage or wear them out prematurely.

This was especially the case today when I tried on a pair of NB904s (recommended by the Chirunning site as a transitional shoe if you want to start moving away from the world of artificial control and padding and heel strike and such) and they felt awesome (and fast). But I was afraid that something so light would be delicate and get trashed.

Likewise I tried on various trail shoes and liked some of them, but wondered how suitable they are for road running.

I guess my biggest problems is that if my runs are half road half gravel/rocks/dirt, it isn't that one run is road and the next is GRD, it's that most runs are literally half one and half the other.

Anyway I'd love any personal experiences or advice anyone can offer on the durability issues. I see some of you wear racing flat style shoes off road. Do they stand up to it all right or do you just have to be prepared to buy new ones a lot?

Rico if the Salomons suit your foot I would reccomend the Wings. They don't have great rock proection in the forefoot, but otherwise they are very stable through the heal, and nice an responsive. I have both Wing and XA Pro's and the Wings are a good hybrid, and as a trail shoe they are nearly as nice as the XA Pro's, but unless you are VERY light on your feet you will not like the XA Pro's on the road at all.

[Solace]

runningclear, on May 12 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

However i went to Shoe Logic (a new shop near the city baths) and they made a good point about the structural differences of the shoe. The most important i thought was the fact that trail shoes offer greater torsional support around the midfoot. this takes the torsional stressors off the mid foot joints when running on un even surfaces.
They also discussed the percentage of trail to road running i did and i too went the XA Pro (full off road salomon. They are awesome!!! Great to run in and pretty light too.

I'm not surprised they did because that was where I bought mine.

Edited by Solace, 13 May 2009 - 05:56 AM.

[Jogger]

Quote

Trail shoes are essential for a serious runner going off road!!

I have finished in top 10 at sixfoot a couple of times - maybe I am not serious enough ?

Quote

I was in denial for a long time. However i went to Shoe Logic (a new shop near the city baths) and they made a good point about ...

caution : brainwash in progress ...

[pipi]

runningclear, on May 12 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

most important i thought was the fact that trail shoes offer greater torsional support around the midfoot. this takes the torsional stressors off the mid foot joints when running on un even surfaces.

Better to stress the ankle or knee than the midfoot?? All of this stress must get transferred to somewhere and it might not be positive.

runningclear, on May 12 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

most important i thought was the fact that trail shoes offer greater torsional support around the midfoot. this takes the torsional stressors off the mid foot joints when running on un even surfaces.

Better to stress the ankle or knee than the midfoot?? All of this stress must get transferred to somewhere and it might not be positive.

[yeti]

runningclear, on May 11 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

They also discussed the percentage of trail to road running i did and i too went the XA Pro (full off road salomon. They are awesome!!! Great to run in and pretty light too.

According to what I could find the XA Pro ('07 model) weighs ~395g. Interesting definition of "light"

Yeti

[Whippet Man]

Perception, eh? The blurbs about my montrail hardrocks used to say lightweight. Ask Spoonie, they are like bricks. But I like 'em.