38 replies to this topic

[walker1st]

do You have a view or an experience ?

and please do not refere to that famous thread, when this was raised.
As I was surprised by some reaction I was thinking about this,
remembering some old referencies and remebering my own old days.

I remeber from discussion on old good times of australian ultrarunning, that there was a female runner, possibly still holding australian female 24H record or at least very high ranking (I do not remeber the name or years), she was said to train 1 weekend every month (?) in a huge volume fashion, running some perhasp 16-20 hours saturday an backing up after few hours of sleep with high volume sunday, getting total maybe 30 hours in a weekend ?
I think, Phil would remeber the discussion and have teh data and link to material, or Kevin C. ?

Back to my day, I had very often weekend of doing huge volumes on a sat-sun.
It could have been hiking trail ultra, say 12H and followed up by all day cycling or another trail ultra
or both days on skis, XC,
in summer on my parents cottage on teh lake, it could like this on both days :
kayaking 4-6am (till dark), running 6-9am in pine forest, as not to wake up anybody
9am-5pm chopping down the old dry trees, hacksaw, axe, wheelborrow, cutting chopping transporting from forest and loading to storage area,
5-7pm easy run
7-10pm kayaking under the moonlight

living on a herbal tea with honey and veggie-mushroom soup served by my mum.

While I was on my feet all day long, it was more upper body stuff really,

similarly in other period building up teh garden or teh cottage it would have been extremely heavy work with no break, pick, showell, fork and go, easy 10-12 hours in longer daylight on each day.

and as a younger kid, it was soccer from sunrise to sunset, interupted by cycling and chasing games, sometimes by fistfights, this would go sometimes for day during summer school holidays.

I am kind of surprize that people see 18 H per weekend as something not doable.

I am talking real effort real activities, not 12H long cricket game

[FrankieP]

Hmm.. in ye olde swimming days our Saturday sessions would stretch into three or four hours, but even for that low-impact sport we'd not go crazy long. Mind you this could be anything from my 8th to 11th session in a week.

If you're talking simply general activity a'la any kiddie I've the average surf-lifesaving background of being out on boards and swimming all weekend when living on the beach, long days in which training sessions would be mixed in with tons of surfing and generalised sodding around.

In terms of a large volume of 'proper' training I guess do my long runs on the weekend as do many of us, but only on one day with the other being off. I do like the idea now and then of doing an epic one but would inevitably fall apart were I to do this on a regular basis. One for the ultra's perhaps?

[Melruns]

Quote

living on a herbal tea with honey and veggie-mushroom soup served by my mum.

What sort of mushrooms Rudi?!

Seriously, that's not a bad point you raise.  I had cross country ski weekends as a teenager/uni student that would come close to maybe 16 hours a weekend.  Followed by several solid hours drinking yeehar.

And stop bagging cricket!

[Kandingo]

Walker

was that a large cup of herbal tea or just a small one.
5 hrs paddling
5 hrs running
8 hrs chopping wood
on both days  

you're serious right ???

[walker1st]

Melruns, on May 6 2009, 05:30 PM, said:

And stop bagging cricket!

I am gentle with insect and all creatures small.

have You ever heard cricket playing ? I had a chance to hear crickets, music recording
and slowed down on some pro-equipment which can regulate the speed.
at specific speed it became like a symphonic orchestra, teh most amazing music i ever heard.

the slow down was effectively teh frequency transfer from crickets audio frequencies to human audio frequencies.

I could listened to it for 12H easy

[KevinCassidy]

walker1st, on May 6 2009, 04:43 AM, said:

do You have a view or an experience ?

and please do not refere to that famous thread, when this was raised.
As I was surprised by some reaction I was thinking about this,
remembering some old referencies and remebering my own old days.

I remeber from discussion on old good times of australian ultrarunning, that there was a female runner, possibly still holding australian female 24H record or at least very high ranking (I do not remeber the name or years), she was said to train 1 weekend every month (?) in a huge volume fashion, running some perhasp 16-20 hours saturday an backing up after few hours of sleep with high volume sunday, getting total maybe 30 hours in a weekend ?
I think, Phil would remeber the discussion and have teh data and link to material, or Kevin C. ?

Rudi, you are thinking of Cynthia Herbert.  Go to  http://www.aura.asn....hiaHerbert.html

[walker1st]

KevinCassidy, on May 6 2009, 05:48 PM, said:

Rudi, you are thinking of Cynthia Herbert.  Go to  http://www.aura.asn....hiaHerbert.html

thanks Kevin, my memory was not that accurate, but still within the concept:

As with all champions, such performances were not achieved without numerous hours of training. Once each month, a weekend would consist of a 10 hour Saturday run followed by 15 hours on the Sunday. 350 kilometres per week was not uncommon.

this was of course only racing exception :

1987 also consisted of a 4:45 performance at the Frankston to Portsea 55km event followed soon after by two 50 mile races on successive days. Those who were around back then would remember the Australian 50 Mile Track Championship being a Saturday event with a road option at Princes Park the following day. Cynthia ran both under eight hours!

however that gives her only under 16H of racing  

[walker1st]

Kandingo, on May 6 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

Walker

was that a large cup of herbal tea or just a small one.
5 hrs paddling
5 hrs running
8 hrs chopping wood
on both days  

you're serious right ???

yes,

of course I had few 5 mins pee breaks.

however I did  not considered this anything special, there were people managing similar stuff and much faster tham myself, I am just illustrating, that the concept is not (or better say WAS NOT) seen as anything unusual.

Remember there are people who would run 6days, 10 days or 50+days, for at least 18 hours each day, so my weekends were 2 days only and changing the activities, I did not see it than as something even worth mentioning.

[JustinS007]

walker1st, on May 6 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

I am kind of surprize that people see 18 H per weekend as something not doable.

Depends on intensity for me.  Running (training) for 18h over a single weekend is probably not smart though I have known it to happen.

But doing up to, say, 10 hours of running, plus a couple hundred KM on the bike at a lower HR and then some stretching / strength work is probably OK.  The body has to be strong to manage it though and and it should probably be outcome-focussed unless you are just a mad keen fitness fanatic.

[Peterhorse]

in my uni days, i did a milkrun on Friday and Sunday nights from midnight to 6am each week, then have breakfast and go play circket all day sat and sunday. then there was this one time, on band camp...

sounds like it would be a very stressful weekend if it was all running. to do it once a month, i would think the recovery after would be critical. in the last month, i've been doing 3-5 hrs trail walks up and down hills on sat and/or sund to train for kokoda and did a long run as well one weekend and it felt pretty good actually. no wood chopping though. one thing i noticed with wlkaing is you can eat and drink a lot more as you go, i think that helped vs running.

[DontStop]

If I'm trekking, I'll sometimes do 10 hours a day of hard walking, with 15-20kg on my back, over 2 to 3 days. But because it's a lower intensity to running, it's not a problem.

Bloody shoulders end up hurting though.

[bruncle]

On a bike, 18+h is pretty doable. Likewise cross country skiing or rollerblading (low impact stuff) can be done too. I did quite a few 40-50 hr training weeks over summer. Looking back on it, I don't think it was that valuable. To be honest, it was more about going out and skiing all day just because I love skiing than because I was hoping to improve my 5k time. I was too tired to put any intensity into any of the workouts, so the same result could've been achieved with 10 hrs of hard exercise. If you had a couple of years though, and could maintain that kind of workload while ramping up the pace as you got used to it, you'd get bloody fit!

Doing it as a one off 'crash training' weekend is a recipe for injury/overtraining though in my opinion (and experience).

[Bellthorpe]

Well yeah, but when I've been out skiing all day it's involved many hours of queuing for lifts, sitting on lifts, eating noodles for lunch and snacks, drinking beer for lunch and snacks, chatting about who's got the biggest piste,  ... oh, and a few hours skiing.

[dmnz]

DontStop, on May 7 2009, 10:40 AM, said:

If I'm trekking, I'll sometimes do 10 hours a day of hard walking, with 15-20kg on my back, over 2 to 3 days. But because it's a lower intensity to running, it's not a problem.

Bloody shoulders end up hurting though.

for 2-3 days?  try carrying less! And is that 10hours straight or are you resting as you go (if you stop at all except to answer the call of nature that's a rest in my books)

JustinS007, on May 7 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

it should probably be outcome-focussed unless you are just a mad keen fitness fanatic.

people are so goal oriented these days
you should just do it because you like it, not necessarily to 'lose weight', 'say i did it', blah blah woof woof

[Melruns]

Quote

Well yeah, but when I've been out skiing all day it's involved many hours of queuing for lifts, sitting on lifts, eating noodles for lunch and snacks, drinking beer for lunch and snacks, chatting about who's got the biggest piste, ... oh, and a few hours skiing.

Definately a much more enjoyable method than the povvo XC uni student version.

[dmnz]

walker1st, on May 6 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

I am kind of surprize that people see 18 H per weekend as something not doable.

http://colinhaley.bl...t-alpinism.html

not just training but hours of fear and trying not to get yourself killed

Edited by dmnz, 07 May 2009 - 11:14 PM.

[walker1st]

Bellthorpe, on May 7 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Well yeah, but when I've been out skiing all day it's involved many hours of queuing for lifts, sitting on lifts, eating noodles for lunch and snacks, drinking beer for lunch and snacks, chatting about who's got the biggest piste,  ... oh, and a few hours skiing.

downhill skiing is a social thingie, thats not a sport.
all day skiing means XC and covering some 50-70 km in various snow condition, mountains, sometimes trails nicely made sometimes just going through pristine virgin snow cover on your own

[rohan]

walker1st, on May 6 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

1987 also consisted of a 4:45 performance at the Frankston to Portsea 55km event followed soon after by two 50 mile races on successive days. Those who were around back then would remember the Australian [b]50 Mile Track Championship being a Saturday event with a road option at Princes Park the following day. Cynthia ran both under eight hours!

I don't know anything about her but that 4;45 at F2P is not a great time.
maybe she was too tired from doing all that training?

[walker1st]

rohan, on May 8 2009, 07:20 AM, said:

I don't know anything about her but that 4;45 at F2P is not a great time.
maybe she was too tired from doing all that training?

so what is womens F2P all time ranking ?

Kouros marathon PB, or his marathon times when he is focused on 24H - 6D is also not that great.

Thinking of it, Haile Gebrselassie time for 100 and 200 is also not that great, perhaps all that marathon training makes him tired ?

[rohan]

walker1st, on May 7 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

so what is womens F2P all time ranking ?

Kouros marathon PB, or his marathon times when he is focused on 24H - 6D is also not that great.

Thinking of it, Haile Gebrselassie time for 100 and 200 is also not that great, perhaps all that marathon training makes him tired ?

F2P rankings http://www.coolrunni...9_inclusive.xls

small sample size. only 292 performances recorded. a couple of women have done 4;15.
best male performance is 3;30.  women's time should be better than 4;15, but the small sample probably contributes to the womens record being soft. antony rickards did the 3;30, and while being a good runner is not a haile.

so how good should the women's record be? the difference between male and female marathon records (2;04 compared to 2;15) is a factor of 1.0887. so multiplying 3;30 - the f2p record-  by 1.0887 should give some indication of what a good woman should do the course in.... 3;48 approx.

btw Haile does have some decent times for events shorter than the one he is training for. Geb's 10k and half M times aren't too shabby.

[swaggerer]

I pushed a Ford all weekend once.   I noticed that it had already started on the later stages of the second day.  Had bit of excess energy so bench pressed it a few times to impress my mates.  Must confess they walked off muttering something that sounded like, "He wanker."  

Talking about enduring stuff, did anyone watch Family Guy the other night. Well we did and I awoke to the Cramps version of the Bird on our stereo.  Young people!

Actually, the Cramps do a good version of the Bird.  Go on.  Are you really as tough as you think you are? Are you hard enough to handle the Bird for the rest of the day?  I dare you.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O3WOaQT_KA&feature=related

Swagger.

Edited by swaggerer, 08 May 2009 - 08:45 AM.

[walker1st]

rohan, on May 8 2009, 08:13 AM, said:

F2P rankings http://www.coolrunni...9_inclusive.xls

small sample size. only 292 performances recorded. a couple of women have done 4;15.
best male performance is 3;30.  women's time should be better than 4;15, but the small sample probably contributes to the womens record being soft. antony rickards did the 3;30, and while being a good runner is not a haile.

so how good should the women's record be? the difference between male and female marathon records (2;04 compared to 2;15) is a factor of 1.0887. so multiplying 3;30 - the f2p record-  by 1.0887 should give some indication of what a good woman should do the course in.... 3;48 approx.

btw Haile does have some decent times for events shorter than the one he is training for. Geb's 10k and half M times aren't too shabby.

rohan You missing he point completely here.

If You wanna the F2P womens record to be good, do not critize the women who in training for Sydney to Melbourne (still holding teh 1000 km record) run F2P as a training run.

Make F2P selection race for australian marathon team, talk to Bideau to send Bennita there or any other similar stuff

F2P is more than 18x shorter that her racing distance (S2M)

not 2x or 4x shorter.

[rohan]

does anyone remember "colac"?
an ex CR with some unorthodox opinions. somewhat rudolfian.

anyway last he was heard of he was claiming to go running with a sack of concrete going up hills in the middle of the night.
wonder how that's going for him?

.... and what the point of it was.

[rohan]

walker1st, on May 7 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

If You wanna the F2P womens record to be good, do not critize the women who in training for Sydney to Melbourne (still holding teh 1000 km record) run F2P as a training run.

you put her f2p performance forward along with it's time as if it was something of note.
i pointed out that it was pretty pedestrian.

on the subject of ultra records, many records are soft.
small pool of people going for them.
the people going for them tend not to be the cream of the crop.  the really good runners tend to get distracted running in events where there is  quality depth of opposition eg. marathoning.

[walker1st]

rohan, on May 8 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

does anyone remember "colac"?
an ex CR with some unorthodox opinions. somewhat rudolfian.

anyway last he was heard of he was claiming to go running with a sack of concrete going up hills in the middle of the night.
wonder how that's going for him?

.... and what the point of it was.

rohan, firstly I am not promoting 18H of training as good training method or showing off how though I used to be, this was simply reaction to those who jump on Ironkids neck for stating that he is doing various activties over the weekend for 18H
and their reaction was kinad like that is not possible etc...


I have no idea why You compare my own example of this to Colac.


Secondly, Colac was doing few times walks up the hills with concrete, but walking down was just too dangerous in those mountains, do not ask me what happened to that concrete on the mountain top if left there.



Thirdly I copy pasted paragraph from aura files, not for F2P time but for the 2 consecutive 50 mile races on 1 weekend - relevant to the topic, I did not put the paragraph intro senetence there containing F2P infor, yes I have not deleted it.

Try to focus on important facts and the relevant ones

[Paul Every]

rohan, on May 8 2009, 07:20 AM, said:

I don't know anything about her but that 4;45 at F2P is not a great time.
maybe she was too tired from doing all that training?

Cynthia was frying much bigger fish than Frankston to Portsea.

It would be reasonable to speculate F2P would have just been a training run/miles in the bank/time on the feet exercise.

Her time at F2P is not relevant.

Edited by Paul Every, 08 May 2009 - 11:27 AM.

[dmnz]

walker1st, on May 8 2009, 09:34 AM, said:

rohan, firstly I am not promoting 18H of training as good training method or showing off how though I used to be, this was simply reaction to those who jump on Ironkids neck for stating that he is doing various activties over the weekend for 18H

hmm, sorry havent been here long so didnt know anything about the original thread you alluded too so there was no context.  BUT my reading of the thread was this wwas what you were trying to say hence my responses.  so perhaps someone else also read it this way.

seems like a misunderstanding here

[Ben1]

About the only thing I try and do for 18 hours on a weekend is sleep.

Back in the younger days there could have been a possibility that a few drinking sessions went that long. Does that qualify as excercise??.......it is lifting 10oz at a time (slowly bringing the weight down on each stubbie and lowering the intensity) many many times.

That was about the extent of my weight training.

[bruncle]

Bellthorpe, on May 7 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Well yeah, but when I've been out skiing all day it's involved many hours of queuing for lifts, sitting on lifts, eating noodles for lunch and snacks, drinking beer for lunch and snacks, chatting about who's got the biggest piste,  ... oh, and a few hours skiing.

I'm not talking about downhill skiing. The days that I was doing were similar to what Rudolf was talking about: 5k of 'running' (but so slowly the verb is hardly apt) on/through the snow, then 60k of cross country skiing and then 5-10k of running to finish it off. And to build up to doing that, I did two months of bike touring in Spain with a common day being: 5k of 'running' before breakfast, 130k of riding with 35kg of luggage strapped to the bike (~8 hrs), and 5k of 'running' before dinner. It is fair to say I learnt the true meaning of exhaustion in that period:)

[sunny1]

rohan, on May 8 2009, 08:29 AM, said:

does anyone remember "colac"?
an ex CR with some unorthodox opinions.

Didn't he go to New Zealand? Miss his input on CR. Re Plu's other thread - he was part of the 'culture' here that I remember when starting on CR - not that I agreed with all his ideas ... diversity is interesting.

Sorry for hijack.

Back to topic. I used to roller skate all day at one point in my life - sun rise (in socks on the kitchen floor at lunch) then outside again until dark! Never thought about counting the hours. Oh, to be able to do that now!

[walker1st]

sunny1, on May 9 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

Didn't he go to New Zealand?

yes, still there


Miss his input on CR.

me too

Re Plu's other thread - he was part of the 'culture' here that I remember when starting on CR - not that I agreed with all his ideas ... diversity is interesting.

Edited by walker1st, 09 May 2009 - 07:10 AM.

[blair]

sunny1, on May 9 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

Didn't he go to New Zealand? Miss his input on CR.

I knew Noo Zulund was backwards but do they not even have the interwebs over there?

[DontStop]

hey dmnz, I didn't call myself DontStop for nothing: that's pretty much walking through straight, with the odd stop to empty the bladder, and fill the one inside my pack.

sometimes I pack lighter, but sometimes I'm happy to trade-off weight for a few luxuries at the end of the day. If you haven't hiked into a hut, and everyone's all cold and miserable, heating up their freeze-dried mac cheese... and pulled out a scotch fillet steak and an onion from your pack, you haven't lived I reckon. Even have a chef mate who insists on bringing a skillet in with him. Some people have a laugh, if we end up stopping near others, but they quickly get the idea when we offer around a bit of extra steak... or a stovetop espresso in the morning.   It's a bit silly, but hey - so's running a marathon.  

But yeah, sometimes I get it down to under 10kg, but it just depends what sort of experience I feel like having. And I don't mind walking all day long... I love it. But I'll only do those distances in Summer, where the days are so long you can get moving at 6.30, and be setting up for the night just after 4pm, with plenty of time for sitting around and reading that heavy book you packed in.

[dmnz]

DontStop, on May 9 2009, 09:29 AM, said:

hey dmnz, I didn't call myself DontStop for nothing: that's pretty much walking through straight, with the odd stop to empty the bladder, and fill the one inside my pack.

nothing wrong with resting at all. i just dont like people saying "i walked for 10 hours straight" when in fact they stopped to have lunch and this and that along the way.  Sure you were out for 10 hours but you weren't walking for 10 hours

but yes, lightening the pack is great as not only is it easier (hey im lazy) but it lets you know what you really need and what are luxuries. just making a suggestion, not having a go at you DontStop

i just dont like stopping as i get cold and hungry and dont want to move again once i stop

Edited by dmnz, 09 May 2009 - 05:14 PM.

[400mSprintersAreSexiest]

Just saw this thread and was wondering how many children did run 5 hours plus circa a day on the weekend?  Not of course non-stop but playing all day.   Do not want to sound like an old fart (I am 36 years old), but I do remember prior to personal computers (but not TV) say late 1970's , early 1980's running around or cycling on a weekend for 5 hours plus e.g. playing red rover, then perhaps a game of brandy, tiggy, going for a bike ride, maybe some force em backs, tiggy again etc.

[Jogger]

Rudi - I think this sort of thing should be encouraged.
I have heard some of the top 100 mile runners in usa do 50miles on each day at the weekend as part of training.
Also a number of top 10km runners doing 200-300km per week in the uk in the 1970s.
Its not for everyone but its good to have example of it working for top runners.

A bit like the lo-carb thread.

people survive AND THRIVE in a very wide range of situations, and its sad that with so much info about, people are almost even more short-sighted ie they want to do the "approved" training when in reality its mediocre & average.

[DontStop]

400mSprintersAreSexiest, on Jun 1 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Just saw this thread and was wondering how many children did run 5 hours plus circa a day on the weekend?  Not of course non-stop but playing all day.   Do not want to sound like an old fart (I am 36 years old), but I do remember prior to personal computers (but not TV) say late 1970's , early 1980's running around or cycling on a weekend for 5 hours plus e.g. playing red rover, then perhaps a game of brandy, tiggy, going for a bike ride, maybe some force em backs, tiggy again etc.

Yep, you got it. I'm 42yo, and every weekend and holiday I'd be on the bike, or playing footy, or cricket, or running around, pretty much all day long, until it got too dark and we had to come home. Not a heap of organised sport, but always doing something active. Brought up in the inner suburbs too. Every kid had a bike, and no parent was afraid to let their kids out by themselves -no one got driven anywhere, unless it was more than 10k away. I reckon on a normal weekend, we would've ridden maybe 50k on our crappy little bikes... played kick-to-kick for three hours... thrown rocks at street signs for 90 minutes... all that stuff.

And guess what... no childhood obesity. I think in the whole primary school we maybe had one or two 'fat kids'. And I'm pretty sure they weren't morbidly obese or anything, just a bit jiggly. Now, overweight is normal. It's pretty sad.

[walker1st]

with all above said, the long weekend comming, I am making it personal challenge.

time of active exercise during 72 hours starting midnight saturday morning to midnight monday night

using stopwatch only to accumulate active time, run,walk,rollerblades,cycle,strenght,yoga,core
and whatever else (sex excluded - its overrated)...

anybody wanna join ?

I was thinking of doing fatass old MEL marathon, but after discusing the feet structure issues with my
fitness angel, I am DNS at long flat and will do lots of hills instead so it is to 1000 steps.

[errorfilenotfound]

Quote

sex excluded

you need every minute to count !