8 replies to this topic

[bumcrackjack]

Question for those that have run both Sydney Half (either one in May or Sept) comparing it to GC Half -

How much faster would you say the GC Half is due to being flat? I understand that there are variables to consider like weather on the day, how training is going etc. but I am after a realistic estimate for what to aim for time wise in the GC.

Ran 1:29 today, so wondering if 1:27:30 is realistic if we consider that variables and training progresses along current standards?

Cheers,

[wozzam]

Hi, don't be mistaken for thinking a flatter course may be faster as on a flat course your using the same muscles where as a undulating course you use different muscles for instance look at Ryan Hall and Decastella at Boston, they both went sub 2:09 so do you think that meant they were sub 2:06 or better on flatter marathons and i know your talking about the half but the same principal should apply.

[mgi11a]

Have to agree with wozzam, also for every uphill there's normally a downhill, sort of cancel each other out.

That aside, depending on how your feeling will depend how much you want to peel off your PB, try for 1:27:30 and if you crash and burn well you'll know to try something different next time.

Cheers

mgilla

[DrJH]

Flatter courses are faster. The down hills don't cancel out the ups. The Gold Coast winning times are a few minutes faster than the current SMH course.

I think it's reasonable to expect to run a couple of minutes faster at the Gold Coast.

[wozzam]

DrJH, on May 17 2009, 07:03 PM, said:

Flatter courses are faster. The down hills don't cancel out the ups. The Gold Coast winning times are a few minutes faster than the current SMH course.

I think it's reasonable to expect to run a couple of minutes faster at the Gold Coast.

you would have to have the same athletes doing both races and similar weather conditions to prove that theory and it also depends what type of runner you are as you have fast runners and strong runners.

[Bull]

I've never run a pancake flat 1/2 marathon but would've thought GC should be faster than Sydney.

I'm not about to enter any debate on whether flat courses are faster or not because I'm far from qualified to comment and only have a couple of years racing experience. Interestingly though, my best C2S time (50:32 / 3:36 per km pace) over 14 km's compared favourably to my 10 km PB at the time (36:25 / 3:37 per km pace) on a flat course (Sydney Striders - North Head) only 1 month apart. My slowest marathon was at Christchurch (pancake flat), whereas my other faster marathons have been on hillier courses. In saying that though, I prefer flat courses and acknowledge that other factors like wind, temperature, crowd support, competition etc need to be considered. From what I can see, there aren't really many pancake flat road events (if any) going around in Sydney so I've not really had much opportunity to compare results.

Cheers
Bull

[wozzam]

when i run on an undulating course when i see a hill i think man i gotta get up this sucker and then use the downhill to make up any lost time but on a flat course you get into a rhythem which can potentially lead to complacency but if you can include surges in your training that should help.

[bumcrackjack]

I think there are elements in both DrJH and wozzam's posts that are relevant.

You have got to think that a flatter course, although agreed brings a different sort of training and preparation, has to be easier than an undulating course like the SMH Half yesterday. Essentially you guys are faster than me and particularly your times Bull have a weird slant to it, where you would think that a 3:36 average over a hilly 14k would yield a 3:30 pace for a flat 10k.

Plenty of variables granted including weather, changes to training, niggles etc. but for a hypothetical I would have thought that running 4:14 pace yesterday would mean that all things being equal belting myself for a 4:09 pace in 8 weeks should be on the cards.

I understand what mg11a is saying to an extent but it must be considered that those up and downhills have a substantial impact on muscle soreness over the course of the event, whereas on a flat course complacency is the only real issue.

[glenda]

I agree downhills don't cancel out the ups. The downhills hurt , especially when you hit the flat after, my legs feel like jelly. Having said that my pb is 79.05 on Noosa, last year which is flat and my best on SMH hilly is 79.10, 2 years ago. It's just that I like uphills.