28 replies to this topic

[julia]

I'm looking at getting some racing spikes. I've tried doing a search but it just keeps bringing up results for sprinting spikes.

But basically, it's going to be for distances up to 10k. I was looking at the Asics Rocket Girl range, and they have some that they say are designed for those distances.

My coach told me to go get some racing shoes, but he said he thinks racing flats are better than spikes, but a few people in our squad wear spikes anyways.

So what is the actual different between the 2?? Why would his preference be towards flats? As it's been darker at night, I have been having issues with slippage when we're doing grass training, and I was thinking spikes might help?

[Leaf]

I'm no expert on this, but I guess the advantage of flats is that you can wear them on the road as well as on tartan/grass. Are you planning on using them for road or track racing? I think the spikes (even the distance ones) would have less padding overall, but I'm not sure - you also need less padding on tartan because it's softer.

There's a post around about the best spikes for grass - there were only a couple responses but there might be a bit of info that would help (that was for sprinting as well though... hmmm).

[Tiger Boy]

Julia, I'm no expert either, but I believe that the reason spikes are used is mainly for grip.
Having said that however, I never wear spikes for anything other than track, and only up to 5000m. Over that distance (e.g. tomorrow night I have a 10000m race), I will have flats on.
If you are racing XC, if the ground is hard you may not get any benefit from the spikes, but may do if it is slippery/wet.
If you are being coached by someone, then it means that you are seeking their guidance, and they would feel obliged to give you what they consider their best advice. If you were at school and the teacher gave you long division, and said to do it a certain way, but the other kids felt they had a better method, which way would you choose?
Not saying that coaches are always right (I know I'm not), but there is probably a reason for him recommending flats over spikes. Maybe speak to the coach and ask why he prefers one over the other.

[DontStop]

I know that Saucony make a XC racing flat: no spikes, but with small rigid rubber studs instead. Obviously would offer more traction than pure flats, but also be better on hard-packed dirt and the occasional paved surface. Would most likely offer more cushioning than traditional XC spikes as well. Could be a good compromise.

May be worth investigating these? I'm sure other brands also make something similar.

edit: search under "cross country spikes and cross country racing flats" and you should find plenty of options.

Edited by DontStop, 18 May 2009 - 03:57 PM.

[DrJH]

I always wear spikes on the track or cross country. The main advantage is grip. Unless it's very muddy you can run with a lot more confidence in spikes. They can take a bit of getting used to because of the lower heel and spikes at the front. You tend to get on your toes more which can give you sore calves.

I generally have two pairs in use, one for tartan training/racing, one for grass/cross country. The actual spikes you use on tartan are shorter and this saves changing them all the time.

Cross country races with roads or footpaths to cross can be a problem. Blunt/broken spikes may need to be replaced afterwards.

Edited by DrJH, 18 May 2009 - 04:34 PM.

[walker1st]

I do not think, that tartan spikes would be of any antislipping help for wet grass.

KT26 are great racing flats bit heavier but have lots of rubber bits all over - giving extra grip

next step for wet grass would be soccer shoes or orienteering shoes.

[Bull]

Hi,

I'll firstly qualify myself by admitting that I've only ever raced twice on the track and once at X/C. Each time was over 10 km's. I wore spikes the 2nd time around on the track & also at the recent Novice X/C Champs @ Ramsgate. I was unsure what to wear on X/C so I sought advice from other runners and settled on the spikes. Glad I did too. The spikes are so light and on grass, I found that I don't really need the cushioning. The only problem I had was crossing a few paths, but nothing major. Cost me $8 afterwards to replace the spikes (I didn't shop around).

The spikes I bought are brilliant. Super super light. I think they're called Nike Zoom Matumbo. Not cheap ($160 I think) but super comfortable and lighter than any other shoe I've ever seen. 1/2 the weight of many flats.

Sorry, I can't comment on what works on slippery surfaces though. Would be interesting to know more about spikeless X/C shoes. With the upcoming NSW X/C Champs in Nowra on 20/6, I was wondering what to wear down there.

Cheers
Bull

[wadistance]

julia, on May 17 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

I'm looking at getting some racing spikes. I've tried doing a search but it just keeps bringing up results for sprinting spikes.

But basically, it's going to be for distances up to 10k. I was looking at the Asics Rocket Girl range, and they have some that they say are designed for those distances.

My coach told me to go get some racing shoes, but he said he thinks racing flats are better than spikes, but a few people in our squad wear spikes anyways.

So what is the actual different between the 2?? Why would his preference be towards flats? As it's been darker at night, I have been having issues with slippage when we're doing grass training, and I was thinking spikes might help?

get into the nike forever xc. decent lightweight flat with the option to chuck some spikes in if you need them. they go well.

[Duffman]

Hi Julia!

Flats are designed to be light weight with minimal support. You can use them for any event - track, road and x-country. They range from racer/trainer weight with thick, cushioned heels (Brooks Racer ST), right down to the 145g flimsly 8mm bits of foam Asics put out (Piranha). Generally the less rubber, dual-density EVA and upper-strapping a shoe has, the lighter it will be. It therefore stands to reason that flats will usually have much less support, grip and durability than most trainers.
Flats are perfect for long speed sessions where grip isn't such an issue as they are lighter than joggers but provide more support than spikes. I use Nike Streaks (superceded by the Spider) for long interval work along the UQ dirt track every Thursday, tempo road runs every Saturday and any road racing or club x-country races I do.

Spikes tend to be lasted/shaped more ergonomically to the foot than flats, with less cushioning in the midsole (if any). LD/XC spikes will have a full length EVA-midsole and tread/weightbearing area, and are usually more flexible with fewer spikes than sprint spikes. This is to provide some form of shock attenuation to protect against repetitive shock, whereas sprint spikes are rigid to provide a firm platform for propulsion.
The Asics Rocketgirl is a durable, entry level MD spike and would be perfect for training but it is a little heavy compared to others on the market. The Nike Victory MD and Mutumbo LD are are fraction of the weight and are orgasmic for racing with.

The important thing to remember with spikes however is that they put an unatural strain on the body as they prevent the slight backward slip that occurs in flats/joggers when you propel yourself forward. Anyone who does a hard track session in spikes for the first time will tell about sore calves the next day so its best to ease into them first. Maybe this is why your coach thinks they are unnecessary at this stage?

I use the Nike Lanang MD for the steeple, 800m-5,000m and every Tuesday for track speed sessions, and the Mutumbo LD's for the 10,000m and major X-country races.
Depending on the surface, you will also have to change the type and length of spike you use. There are 3 main types: needle (any), christmas tree (tartan) and pyramid (dirt & grass). On the track, the longest legal length is 7mm. On grass you will use up to 12mm depending on how soft the ground is.
I try to make sure I wear spikes if I'm on the grass for high intensity speed work because I've slipped and torn my hamstring twice without them.

Hope that helps,
DM

[Timbo76]

Some excellent information there duffman, thanks.

Where do people go to buy racing shoes (flats, spikes) normally? I've never bought a pair and whenever in the usual places I buy my shoes (rebel etc.) they only have one or two models of racing shoes.

(i'm in victoria if anyone can indicate specific stores)

[julia]

Thanks heaps for all that info Duffman! Definately helps me out a lot.

Timbo76, try Stringer Sports - they're who I'd be ordering my spikes from, Rebel is pathetic when it comes to racing shoes

[Tiger Boy]

Timbo76, on May 19 2009, 05:52 AM, said:

Where do people go to buy racing shoes (flats, spikes) normally?

(i'm in victoria if anyone can indicate specific stores)

Runners world, High St. East Kew.

The guy that owns the store is a runner, and has a huge range of all shoes.

[Huff]

Timbo76, on May 19 2009, 05:52 AM, said:

Some excellent information there duffman, thanks.

Where do people go to buy racing shoes (flats, spikes) normally? I've never bought a pair and whenever in the usual places I buy my shoes (rebel etc.) they only have one or two models of racing shoes.

(i'm in victoria if anyone can indicate specific stores)

Personally never looked at running spikes but I know the Nike Outlet (and some others) in Smith Street have spike shoes. No idea what they are like.

[southy]

I prefer the NIke CRoss Country Waffle Spikes for training on grass tracks and for cross country racing. They have a bit more cushioning (easier on the body and feet) than track spikes but give plenty of grip on wet and slippery surfaces. I find track spikes pretty hard on the body (negative heel and no cushioning in forefoot) , particularly on the calves and achilles and would be very reluctant as a coach to put any young athlete doing lots of intervals or racing long distances in track spikes. Check out this webpage for some examples of spiked cross country shoes. I believe Brooks & Asics , most of teh major brands will have their own models of spiked cross country shoes. They are a much better option for young runners training on grass tracks.

http://www.runningwarehouse.com/catpage-AW...&ctype=comp

[walker1st]

Tiger Boy, on May 19 2009, 08:42 AM, said:

Runners world, High St. East Kew.

The guy that owns the store is a runner, and has a huge range of all shoes.

and just last week become official proud sponsor of the VRWC (vic racewalking club - albert park)

[kierenm]

I'm inclined to suggest having spikes for the grass training etc, and flats for the road if you can afford them both. Spikes will enhance grip much much better, and are recommended, but don't get too used to them or you will find it hard to revert to the flats later on.

[southy]

You can't use spikes on the road anyway. If you bought spikes, you would need to have flats for the road. It all depends on how serious you are , and how much money you have to spend on your shoes.

[TrackRunner]

julia, on May 18 2009, 01:03 PM, said:

I'm looking at getting some racing spikes. I've tried doing a search but it just keeps bringing up results for sprinting spikes.

But basically, it's going to be for distances up to 10k. I was looking at the Asics Rocket Girl range, and they have some that they say are designed for those distances.

My coach told me to go get some racing shoes, but he said he thinks racing flats are better than spikes, but a few people in our squad wear spikes anyways.

So what is the actual different between the 2?? Why would his preference be towards flats? As it's been darker at night, I have been having issues with slippage when we're doing grass training, and I was thinking spikes might help?

hi Julia, firstly give the rocket girl range a miss they are a cheaply made spike that come in lots of great colors just to get some buyers but they are unstable around the heel and if you pronate at all they can lead to ankle injury, ( my sister got some and hated them ) most of the girls in my squad use nike yana star xcountry waffles as they are light and have 4 removable spikes on each foot so they can be used on any surface and are not expensive. They are on special from XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX right now and you can get a pair to australia for around $50, which is great value the link is here

also if you are looking for track racing spikes and can afford $200 the nike zoom victories are ace.
Good luck and hope this helps

[bear]

I think you should listen to your coach. He should know your running best. If he says you should buy spikes buy them, if he says you should buy flats then buy them.

[Teoman]

wadistance, on May 18 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

get into the nike forever xc. decent lightweight flat with the option to chuck some spikes in if you need them. they go well.

Any idea where you could find these in and around Sydney??

[southy]

That's one of the issues here. I couldn't buy a NIke waffle spike (such as the nike forever ) in Oz as Nike does not ship them to Oz (I've been told by the retailers). Nike only ships those where it deems there is suffecient demand. So they have to be ordered from overseas. But don't try ordering from the Nike website as they will not ship them to Australia, violates some agreement they have with the retailers here. So you either have to get them shipped to a US addess and then forwarded on or buy them from a website that does ship to Oz. I Love the Nike cross country spikes. They are more forgiving on my old body. I also prefer them for younger athletes I coach as they do not put as much strain on the feet and achilles as track spikes. And of course they are very good for cross country racing.

[Teoman]

That's a bummer.

I found them on a few websites and I guess I'll check which of them will ship to Australia and for how much etc and weigh up the prices to see which is best.

Edited by Teoman, 16 September 2009 - 11:24 PM.

[southy]

Please remove the website names from your post. WE have had websites have to suddenly stop shipping to Oz because of pressure from their suppliers.
If you email me, I'll tell you more.

[Teoman]

Done.

Apologies for my ignorance and noted for future reference.

Actually turns out one of the websites I listed was censored on here, I guess they're one of the sites you're talking about. I notice they wouldn't ship to Australia unless I specifically asked them via email.

Edited by Teoman, 16 September 2009 - 11:27 PM.

[southy]

Good luck. I get really angry at this policy. I don't even mind paying more for my shoes here but to tell me I can only purchase certain models really makes me angry. Not everyone has a one size fits all foot.

[southy]

Just wanted to warn you that Nike's sizes are a bit different, more like uni sex. I would go into a shop and try on the NIke Waffle racer. You can get those in Oz, they do not have spikes in the soles but they are the same sizings as the rubber bottom spikes such as the Nike Zoom models and the NIke FOrever CC. MY daughter has pair of the Nike Zoom Forever CC and I race in the Nike Zoom CC a lot. They are a lovely light weight rubber bottomed spike shoe, suitable for cc racing, or 1500m, 5k , 10k track races. A bit easier on the feet and achilles than traditional distance spikes.
I usually wear a ladies 7 in most shoes but wear a size 6 in the Nike Rubber bottomed spikes and waffle racers.

[Teoman]

Will do, thanks for all your help

[Teoman]

Hey southy, I'd just like to say thanks once more for all your help.

I ordered a pair and received them today, and thanks to your sizing tip I avoided making a costly mistake! My experience was actually the opposite of yours and I had to buy up a size (+0.5 to 1 size up) from my normal wear. It fits like a glove and I can't wait to try them out.

[southy]

You are most welcome. I'm glad it worked out for you.

As I said, I love 'em. They are a bit kinder on the metatarsals & achilles than hard plate spikes. I use them (with 7mm spikes) for racing on synthetic tracks, and with 9mm spikes for racing and training on grass tracks & grass cross country courses.