21 replies to this topic

[RodN]

I normally use the middle for speedwork and the outside for recovery leaving 1 and 2 alone for the sake of the club.

But now wondering which of the rings is actually 400M?

[Huff]

Lane 1

[Leaf]

RodN, on May 25 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

I normally use the middle for speedwork and the outside for recovery leaving 1 and 2 alone for the sake of the club.

But now wondering which of the rings is actually 400M?

The others are right. That's why lane 1 starts at the finish line (for 400m), then lane 2 is a little bit ahead of them, the lane 3 a little bit more ahead etc. (and also why in the longer races the competitors are all able to move to the centre after the first part of the lap)...

[thomo]

It depends if it is a "standard olympic 400 mtrs track".

If it is grass track inside a football field and not a synthetic athletics track it may not be correct .

Best to name the track, that way the people from that area or who use it can confirm.

Edited by thomo, 25 May 2009 - 04:50 PM.

[mgi11a]

Also where is the 400m measured? in the middle of the lane or around the the inside line?

[jockster]

Check prior posting:

Previous post with details

[wozzam]

mgi11a, on May 25 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Also where is the 400m measured? in the middle of the lane or around the the inside line?

Hi
I was talking to our local running guru about this sort of stuff a couple of weeks ago and he's a bit of an authourity on these issues and said to me that the 400m is measured 20 centimetres from the rail of the inside lane and also i'm pretty sure he said when they measure a marathon course it has to be a metre from from the curb or gutter or was that 2 metres maybe Brick could verify that for me

[Steve 'The Footman']

It must be the shortest possible route. That means 400m is the very inside part of the lane (not the line). When measuring road runs it is the shortest possible route - not 1 metre from the curb. In practice you can only ride so close to the curb using a Jones device with the certified accurate method. It may be 20cm from the curb in a marathon.

Some grass athletic tracks have an inside dummy lane that is less than 400M so that the casual joggers that use it can wear that one out rather than the one used for middle distance and distance races.

[RodN]

Its the Melbourne Uni athletics track. Thanks for the answers I think I'll move from 3/4 to lane 2. We aren't supposed to run much distance from 1 & 2 to avoid wearing the lanes out.

[Running2Long]

wozzam, on May 25 2009, 03:06 AM, said:

Hi
I was talking to our local running guru about this sort of stuff a couple of weeks ago and he's a bit of an authourity on these issues and said to me that the 400m is measured 20 centimetres from the rail of the inside lane and also i'm pretty sure he said when they measure a marathon course it has to be a metre from from the curb or gutter or was that 2 metres maybe Brick could verify that for me

This sounds pretty right ... not sure of the distance from the rail of the inside lane, but many years ago I saw a track surveyor verifying a track for record ratification purposes (200m record I think). He was running a string some distance outside of the inside line of the lane the runner ran in. Anyway, there is a black and white answer to this ... where are our certified course measurers/surveyors ?

R2L

[M12]

I honestly thought it would be measured along the inside line. That way you can only run further and not shorter. If its measured 20cm out, then say you run 200m, you could theoretically run shorter if you run just inside the inside line. Over 400m, you could probably technically run only 399.x metres.

[Running2Long]

This looks like the answer ... IAAF Competition Rule 160.2 ... interesting ...

RULE 160
Track Measurements

1. The length of a standard running track shall be 400m. It shall
consist of two parallel straights and two bends whose radii shall be
equal. The inside of the track shall be bordered by a kerb of suitable
material, approximately 5cm in height and minimum 5cm in width. ...
.........

2. The measurement shall be taken 30cm outward from the kerb or,
where no kerb exists, 20cm from the line marking the inside of the
track.

http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/Competitio...rinted_8986.pdf

So ... assuming that Lane 1 has an inside kerb, the measurement of Lane 1 is taken 0.30 metres outward from that kerb and the lengths of the other lanes are measured 0.20 metres from the line marking the inside of the lane.

The logic seems to be that an athlete will generally run closer to a line marking than to a kerb.

So ... if you run close enough to the kerb in Lane 1, it seems like you could run less than the nominal race distance ... especially in say a 10,000m race.

R2L

[Action]

Running2Long, on May 25 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

... where are our certified course measurers/surveyors ?

R2L

Sorry, missed this thread. When we measure a road course it is 30cm from the curb. On the track, as R2L has defined perfectly, 20cm if a curb is there, 30 if not. With a road course, we add 1m each km to ensure a minimum distance - we certify that a course is "at least the certified distance". On the track it is the exact distance. Brings up interesting discussions when a road race starts or finishes on a track - eg Olympic marathons! When we measured the Sydney Olympic Marathons we advised the the Olympic track was only 399.6m which cause a bit of a kerfuffle.

Now, whilst it may seem that it is possible to run short by running on the line or against the curb, try it sometime. You only need to step wide once or twice and you would then be running longer! As soon as you pass someone you have run off the measured line and you have to get back on it.

[Oporto]

M12, on May 25 2009, 11:59 PM, said:

I honestly thought it would be measured along the inside line. That way you can only run further and not shorter. If its measured 20cm out, then say you run 200m, you could theoretically run shorter if you run just inside the inside line. Over 400m, you could probably technically run only 399.x metres.

Also depends on which bit of your body you measure from. Swing your right arm widely and it's probably covering a good 401m.

[clanrunner]

RodN, on May 25 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Its the Melbourne Uni athletics track. Thanks for the answers I think I'll move from 3/4 to lane 2. We aren't supposed to run much distance from 1 & 2 to avoid wearing the lanes out.

It's a good idea to spare using the inside lanes, but I find it more practical to do this when doing reps of 400m or shorter, as they're marked on the track already. Longer reps are harder to work out if you run them in lane 4. Certainly, people who are just jogging around the track shouldn't be using lane 1, but there seems to be a magnetic pull towards it. Hence some tracks have inner dummy lanes, as mentioned above.

[lactatehead]

It is annoying not being able to use lane 1 if you want to do a 3k time trial on the track. I would be happy to use lane 3 if someone could show me where I would need to start from.

[thomo]

Action, on May 27 2009, 10:48 AM, said:

Sorry, missed this thread. When we measure a road course it is 30cm from the curb. On the track, as R2L has defined perfectly, 20cm if a curb is there, 30 if not. With a road course, we add 1m each km to ensure a minimum distance - we certify that a course is "at least the certified distance". On the track it is the exact distance. Brings up interesting discussions when a road race starts or finishes on a track - eg Olympic marathons! When we measured the Sydney Olympic Marathons we advised the the Olympic track was only 399.6m which cause a bit of a kerfuffle.

Now, whilst it may seem that it is possible to run short by running on the line or against the curb, try it sometime. You only need to step wide once or twice and you would then be running longer! As soon as you pass someone you have run off the measured line and you have to get back on it.

From IAAF, no I am not from the IAAF.

Quote

The inner edge of the track is 398.116m in length (36.50m x 2 x π + 84.39m x 2) where π = 3.1416. This length for the inner edge gives a length of 400.001m (36.8m x 2 x π +84.39m x 2) for the theoretical line of running (measurement line) at a distance of 0.30m from the kerb. The
inside lane (lane 1) will, therefore, have a length of 400.001m along its theoretical line of
running.

http://www2.iaaf.org/TheSport/Technical/Tr...ementReport.pdf

Cost to certify a track for Olympic /world championship is currently US$ 10,000.

[clanrunner]

lactatehead, on May 28 2009, 03:23 AM, said:

It is annoying not being able to use lane 1 if you want to do a 3k time trial on the track. I would be happy to use lane 3 if someone could show me where I would need to start from.

Measure how far forward the 200m start is, multiply that by 15 and then mark it. Isn't too hard is it?
If you're not too bothered about getting it exactly right, you could just step it out. I've done this before for 800m reps. 800s are a lot easier to measure though!

[rohan]

lactatehead, on May 28 2009, 03:23 AM, said:

It is annoying not being able to use lane 1 if you want to do a 3k time trial on the track. I would be happy to use lane 3 if someone could show me where I would need to start from.

use this calculator... http://www.eracewalk.com/CalcTrac.htm

great for figuring how many laps in which lane achieves what distance.

(race walking sites are actually good for something)

[thomo]

rohan, on May 28 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

use this calculator... http://www.eracewalk.com/CalcTrac.htm

great for figuring how many laps in which lane achieves what distance.

(race walking sites are actually good for something)

Ultraphil, Walker1st & I thank you.

[southy]

I prepared a home made version myself . When the drought was really bad , we had to use outside lanes of our grass track to keep the inside lanes in decent condition for the LA club using it for racing.

The following spreadsheet tells the distance in each lane per lap, and for multiple laps and calculates your target pace for any given speed such as 20sec per 100m (that's 80sec per 400m).

[lactatehead]

Thanks for the useful info southy, rohan and clanrunner.